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Author Topic: Endless Summer Quarterly feedback  (Read 85533 times)
Ian
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« Reply #200 on: November 27, 2014, 10:25:38 AM »

Of course many concert videos and albums got fiddled with. The Beatles went into a studio in early 66 to fix the she stadium film with lots of overdubbing and rerecording. The stones first love album (released only in the u.s.) got live if you want it features three studio songs with overdubbed crowd noise. Etc
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« Reply #201 on: November 27, 2014, 10:35:31 AM »

That's why for the most part, and with few exceptions, I've never been a fan of "live" albums! If I do want to hear a band's live take on a song, I'd rather hear it raw, warts-and-all, but that was never the general rule with many major-label official live albums.

With the two Beach Boys songs, I'm pretty sure this speeding-up and adding crowd noise was something done thinking their main audience wouldn't notice it. Not only was it still "teen pop" as a target demographic, but I seriously think there was consideration given that the kids buying these albums would not be listening in 1964 on hi-fi or audiophile grade equipment, and that they might not be astute enough listeners to know or even care too much.

I have in my collection a "live" album by The Kingsmen from this same time, and I'll need to go back and listen but I think on that LP there is a sped-up studio recording of "Louie Louie" with crowd/club noise added just like the BB's had done. It's obvious to us now, but consider at that time did they think anyone buying a live Kingsmen album would know? It's like watching television shows from the 50's and 60's in 2014, on restored and remastered digital or high-def formats. Some details that would be considered blunders or mistakes by the prop department and set designers would *never* have been noticed by the people watching the original broadcasts on their old RCA TV sets with rabbit ear antennas.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Mikie
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« Reply #202 on: November 27, 2014, 11:35:52 AM »

When I started working for the BBs in 1969, Fred was my next door neighbor in Beachwood Canyon so I got to hear a lot of early days stories from him.  Fred might even know how the album was put together, since he was always close to them and worked for the BBs later.  He started in the Ivar offices in '68 or '69.

Debbie, did you work at 1654 N. Ivar during the Summer of 1973 or '74? Back then, I walked in there and asked two ladies for Beach Boys promo stuff. Maybe you were one of them(?) Did Catherine Pace or Diane Rovell work there at the time? One of the ladies there gave me a press kit with bios and 8x10 glossies in addition to a large promo poster of the Surf's Up album. The poster is one of my prized possessions and is on my wall framed behind glass. I'll always be thankful for that.  Smiley
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #203 on: November 27, 2014, 12:33:44 PM »

Having been one of those little 12-year-old screamers in LA, Kansas City and Chicago concerts during ''64, '65, I can nearly guarantee you that they muted the sound of the audience a bit on the concert album.   I remember being lined up before the show with the other little teenies and pre-teenies in the entry hall when Brian and Mike peeked through one of the doors and the shrieking started at that point.  We then heard another shriek go up and saw Denny running down a set of stairs to the parking garage with a group of young girls right behind.  We wandered over to the top of the stairs.  A few minutes later the screams came echoing from below again, quickly followed by Dennis running past at the bottom of the stairs with the little shriekers right behind. He appeared later onstage unscathed.  It was all pretty surreal.

The screams, particularly when they introduced Dennis and Brian were as loud as anything you hear on Beatles live show videos.  I know if you weren't around in the 60's it's hard to imagine, but the screaming apparently started with Sinatra, then Elvis.  The Beach Boys' audiences were essentially the same period as the Beatles and they received the same reactions.  The sound is totally believable to me and as I said, muted so you can actually hear the show.   We were little Dionysian Maenads reincarnated, well without the blood bit...However Capitol put it together, they didn't have to fake a scream track.

Which reminds me, it's probably already been stated that was Fred Vail introducing them on the record.  He was the Sacramento promoter then and his choice of selling BB's tickets at the original Tower Records apparently helped put that chain on the map when we actually had lots of record stores, as I understood it from him.  When I started working for the BBs in 1969, Fred was my next door neighbor in Beachwood Canyon so I got to hear a lot of early days stories from him.  Fred might even know how the album was put together, since he was always close to them and worked for the BBs later.  He started in the Ivar offices in '68 or '69.

By the later '60's we were all too "cool" to scream of course.  It was a relief to be able to hear the show a lot better, I must say.

Great recollections, Debbie.  At that time, roughly what percentage of the concert goers would you say were females?

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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #204 on: November 27, 2014, 01:02:01 PM »

I think the '64 Concert album gets a bad rap by a lot of fans who assume it's all fake or mostly fake...but it is definitely way more real than fake. There's quite a few tracks on it that have virtually no sweetening or additions, just pure live Beach Boys. Yes, the IGA and FFF are studio versions with crowd sounds dumped on them, and a few others have vocal additions, but for the most part the album is absolutely live and considering when it came out it was very groundbreaking. It went to #1...and was a huge huge success. Probably the very first live rock album, and certainly the first that was a massive commercial success. Personally this album always get my rocks off. It's a classic, and I remember how important it was in the context of those times.
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Mikie
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« Reply #205 on: November 27, 2014, 01:18:31 PM »

The two Sea Of Tunes Unsurpassed Masters bootlegs will verify the overdubbing in the studio. I had suspicions that there was work done on the 'In Concert' album prior to its release. Then when I heard this around 2000, my suspicions were confirmed:
 
The Beach Boys Live In Sacramento, 1964 First Show and Rehearsal August 1, 1964 at The Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, California. To me, it shows that the band is trying to get the rhythm down and Brian seems a little impatient with the band and gives them a bad time.

The Beach Boys Live In Sacramento, 1964 Second Show and Vocal Overdubs - Second show recorded at The Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, California on August 1, 1964. Love the Honda 55 vocals. Was that for a radio commercial? Anybody know if it was ever used?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 01:20:17 PM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #206 on: November 27, 2014, 02:56:24 PM »

The two Sea Of Tunes Unsurpassed Masters bootlegs will verify the overdubbing in the studio. I had suspicions that there was work done on the 'In Concert' album prior to its release. Then when I heard this around 2000, my suspicions were confirmed:
 
The Beach Boys Live In Sacramento, 1964 First Show and Rehearsal August 1, 1964 at The Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, California. To me, it shows that the band is trying to get the rhythm down and Brian seems a little impatient with the band and gives them a bad time.

The Beach Boys Live In Sacramento, 1964 Second Show and Vocal Overdubs - Second show recorded at The Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, California on August 1, 1964. Love the Honda 55 vocals. Was that for a radio commercial? Anybody know if it was ever used?

That's funny, because the bootlegs of those Sacramento shows actually confirmed to me that a bunch of it was really live. Kind of had the opposite reaction to your confirmed suspicions because before that, in the 80's and 90's the general consensus among the hardcore BB's fans that I knew had always been that most of the performances on the '64 live album weren't really live, but the bootlegs proved that although there was some post production work on some of the tracks, that many of them were purely live.
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« Reply #207 on: November 27, 2014, 03:22:44 PM »

From memory, those bootlegs also include great live versions of both I Get Around and Fun, Fun, Fun, yet for whatever reason the studio versions were used instead.
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"Quit screaming and start singing from your hearts, huh?" Murry Wilson, March 1965.
Mikie
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« Reply #208 on: November 27, 2014, 04:14:08 PM »

Yep! Both are on there. YOU make the call as to whether Brian did the right thing with overdubbers.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
Ian
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« Reply #209 on: November 28, 2014, 04:03:10 AM »

As I was saying-the Stones have redone parts for pretty much every live album they have ever put out despite being a great live act. Artists are perfectionists and having access to studios gives them the itch to fix what probably should just be left alone.  That being said-by 1980 the BBs were wise to overdub the 4th of July special and Knebworth-the undubbed versions are pretty rough in places!
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« Reply #210 on: November 28, 2014, 04:58:07 AM »

But I get around and fun fun fun are studio recordings right?

Yes of course, those are the exceptions.
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wantsomecorn
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« Reply #211 on: November 28, 2014, 05:21:05 AM »

What about their other live albums? Wasn't "Live in London" supposedly released undoctored? And "In Concert"?
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On our way through this "backstage" maze, Bruce joined up with the group and said hello, singing "It Never Rains in Southern California" and joking with some of the older ladies. I'm not sure if they knew he was a Beach Boy or simply an enthusiastic elderly gay gentleman.
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« Reply #212 on: November 28, 2014, 11:22:59 AM »

Bruce insisted to me that the the '68 London tapes were completely undoctored and that the LP is exactly what they sounded like to the band while performing onstage.
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Mikie
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« Reply #213 on: November 28, 2014, 12:11:30 PM »

The Live In London album was superbly recorded. The clearest and cleanest and loudest of all the live albums by far. The Carnegie Hall recordings seem a close second best. Did Desper record one or both of those? Just excellent recordings sonically. Don't think you could get any better than that, especially in 1968. Felt like you were sitting in the front row center at those London gigs.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #214 on: November 28, 2014, 02:44:15 PM »

The Live In London album was superbly recorded. The clearest and cleanest and loudest of all the live albums by far. The Carnegie Hall recordings seem a close second best. Did Desper record one or both of those? Just excellent recordings sonically. Don't think you could get any better than that, especially in 1968. Felt like you were sitting in the front row center at those London gigs.
As was discussed part way down this thread http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18584.0.html and explained in Desper's own words in the Beach Boys In Concert book...Mr. Desper was actually unaware that the Dec. 8th 1968 Finsbury Park, Astoria concert that was used on the Live In London album had been recorded (by EMI's in house set up). It's a pretty cool story, and he acknowledges that the EMI folks knew what they were doing when it came to getting a clean recording of a concert in their venues, but Desper and the Beach Boys were in the dark that this show was being recorded for a BB's release. I agree that it's probably their best sounding live show, and is a great performance by the five Beach Boys with a local brass section and only a couple of sidemen.
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Mikie
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« Reply #215 on: November 28, 2014, 04:07:10 PM »

Jon, thanks for the info, thread link, and book reference. Completely missed those, obviously.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #216 on: November 30, 2014, 10:23:14 AM »

Bruce insisted to me that the the '68 London tapes were completely undoctored and that the LP is exactly what they sounded like to the band while performing onstage.

While Bruce was autographing the newly remastered LP for an (as of yet to be selected) ESQ subscriber, we were talking about that album (November 5, in Hamlet, NC).  His memory on many things is uncanny, and it makes listening to the album even more satisfying. It's interesting to note the cover shot was taken well over a year after the actual concert was recorded.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 11:11:38 AM by ESQ Editor » Logged
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« Reply #217 on: November 30, 2014, 11:24:30 AM »

A reminder: You can write "Letters To The Editor" here, and discuss each issue once you have had a chance to read it.  This is also the page where updates will be posted about upcoming content, etc.

Because free content has been discussed in the past, ESQ is offering two FREE DOWNLOADABLE concert programs:
1)  Brian Wilson with Al Jardine — http://esquarterly.com/PDF/FREE_B_WILSON_PROGRAM2014.pdf
2)  Mike Love and Bruce Johnston — http://esquarterly.com/PDF/ESQ_BBoysProgram-July2014.pdf

Really glad to see the ongoing discussion about the 1964 CONCERT ALBUM.   More to come.

Who has received issue #107?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 11:26:06 AM by ESQ Editor » Logged
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« Reply #218 on: December 02, 2014, 10:42:12 AM »

Issue #108 will be published and mailed before Christmas.

Interviews with Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Marilyn Wilson-Rutherford,  Jerry Schilling, Ed Roach and Geoffrey Cushing-Murray.

Features include—
Exclusive Brian Wilson content
50th anniversary of The Beach Boys Christmas Album
35th anniversary of The Beach Boys L.A. (Light Album)

Archival images provided by Capitol Records Archives,  Brian Berry, Neil Shoen Holz, Ed Roach and Dean O. Torrence.

Endless Summer Quarterly on FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/ESQ.Editor
Endless Summer Quarterly limited time offer: https://www.facebook.com/ESQ.Editor/photos/a.345125747486.155678.183982922486/10152842208932487/?type=1&theater
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« Reply #219 on: December 02, 2014, 04:28:20 PM »


Who has received issue #107?


Received it today.  As always, jam packed with great articles and photos.
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Emdeeh
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« Reply #220 on: December 02, 2014, 05:54:56 PM »

Received #107 and have read it cover to cover -- hubby's reading it now. I am thoroughly enjoying the 50 years ago album by album in-depth explorations. Keep up the good work, guys -- much appreciated!
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Debbie Keil-Leavitt
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« Reply #221 on: December 02, 2014, 08:15:05 PM »

When I started working for the BBs in 1969, Fred was my next door neighbor in Beachwood Canyon so I got to hear a lot of early days stories from him.  Fred might even know how the album was put together, since he was always close to them and worked for the BBs later.  He started in the Ivar offices in '68 or '69.

Debbie, did you work at 1654 N. Ivar during the Summer of 1973 or '74? Back then, I walked in there and asked two ladies for Beach Boys promo stuff. Maybe you were one of them(?) Did Catherine Pace or Diane Rovell work there at the time? One of the ladies there gave me a press kit with bios and 8x10 glossies in addition to a large promo poster of the Surf's Up album. The poster is one of my prized possessions and is on my wall framed behind glass. I'll always be thankful for that.  Smiley

I worked in the Ivar offices in '69-'70.  Cathy Pace worked there in '69 in accounting with a woman named Pat Babiarz.  I believe she left before I did in 1970 and was replaced by a really entertaining older lady with red hair whose name escapes me.  A red-haired woman named Lou was Grillo's secretary.  Diana Dignan was receptionist at the Ivar offices when I left in 1970 as I recall, and I'm not certain how long she worked there.  Possibly she was the lady who helped you?  She was an attractive lady in her early 20's with light brown hair.  I'm glad that you got treasured mementos and that you are better at keeping them than I.  I gave mine to a collector I respected knowing how terrible I was at paying attention to personal possessions.
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Emdeeh
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« Reply #222 on: December 02, 2014, 08:29:02 PM »

Q for David -- I know the physical Mike & Bruce tour program was being sold at their recent shows. Will the Brian and Al one be available in physical format at Brian's shows?

Nice job on both books!
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Mikie
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« Reply #223 on: December 23, 2014, 10:33:25 PM »

When I started working for the BBs in 1969, Fred was my next door neighbor in Beachwood Canyon so I got to hear a lot of early days stories from him.  Fred might even know how the album was put together, since he was always close to them and worked for the BBs later.  He started in the Ivar offices in '68 or '69.

Debbie, did you work at 1654 N. Ivar during the Summer of 1973 or '74? Back then, I walked in there and asked two ladies for Beach Boys promo stuff. Maybe you were one of them(?) Did Catherine Pace or Diane Rovell work there at the time? One of the ladies there gave me a press kit with bios and 8x10 glossies in addition to a large promo poster of the Surf's Up album. The poster is one of my prized possessions and is on my wall framed behind glass. I'll always be thankful for that.  Smiley

I worked in the Ivar offices in '69-'70.  Cathy Pace worked there in '69 in accounting with a woman named Pat Babiarz.  I believe she left before I did in 1970 and was replaced by a really entertaining older lady with red hair whose name escapes me.  A red-haired woman named Lou was Grillo's secretary.  Diana Dignan was receptionist at the Ivar offices when I left in 1970 as I recall, and I'm not certain how long she worked there.  Possibly she was the lady who helped you?  She was an attractive lady in her early 20's with light brown hair.  I'm glad that you got treasured mementos and that you are better at keeping them than I.  I gave mine to a collector I respected knowing how terrible I was at paying attention to personal possessions.

Debbie, I just saw this. Thanks for the reply. Smiley
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 08:29:39 AM by Mikie » Logged

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #224 on: January 04, 2015, 12:44:56 AM »

Q for David -- I know the physical Mike & Bruce tour program was being sold at their recent shows. Will the Brian and Al one be available in physical format at Brian's shows?

Nice job on both books!

There is a really cool Beach Boys' program being sold at BB shows, but it isn't the FREE DOWNLOADABLE version that I designed.  The one being sold at venues is very thick, and includes many rare BB pictures and original program scans form the group's 1964-era programs.  Mike, Brian, Al, Carl, Dennis and Bruce are each featured.  The only absent BB is David. 

The program I designed using photos from the Mike & Bruce show on July 13 in Augusta, GA is completely different.  As it stands, neither of the FREE concert programs are available physically.

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