Stamos accused…

[guitarfool2002]

Seems like the "Stamos" thread has gravitated towards another subject entirely (nostalgia/American Graffiti). Good for another thread....

Others have mentioned a separate topic as well, if that's the consensus. It is a great topic, or sub-topic, or whatever: I think the revelation that Dennis was the catalyst for adding more "oldies" after asking Guercio for help led to the idea of what exactly is an "oldie"?

I can add that I have numerous compilation albums from local AM stations in the later 60's, everything from Philly to Boston to KHJ in Los Angeles, which were usually pressed rather cheaply and had all kinds of photos of bands and DJ's...and featured "oldies" along with current AM hits.

Anyone else familiar with those sets? It ties in with the topic, because you had early 60's and even late 50's records which seemed to be called "oldies" on the same radio station collections as "Sunny", "98.6", and any number of recent chart hits. And the oldies were less than 10 years old.

Are songs from 2004 considered "oldies" today? Yet in the 60's you'd have Real Don Steele playing his "oldies" and they'd be from '61 or something...it's odd.

I think it ties in because Full House, Home Improvement, all of the other Beach Boys television cameo tie-ins and Stamos connections are now 25-30+ years old. Are they "oldies"?

[Cam Mott]

We need to define what is meant in the complaints because old doesn't cover it because most of the songs people would rather have are/were just as old or older as the songs they say they would substitute. "Hits" would not seem to get it either since many of the complaintees were never hits and some of the desirees were never hits either. I guess.

To paraphrase Freud: "What do fans wants"? Setlists of everyone's personal favorites regardless of how impossible that would be? That would be just like us. (eyeroll)

[Ang Jones]

If we were easily satisfied I suppose we wouldn't be fans of this particular music.

[guitarfool2002]

Re Dennis being responsible for the return to the oldies on tour, whilst this may have proved popular in the US, I think the tactic was less appreciated in the UK. I remember concerts in the early 70s and the band offering to do requests. People were asking for Surf's Up and were given Surfin' USA. Pet Sounds was better received over here AT FIRST - I think the European fans had less of a problem with the more recent material. Perhaps the reason for this was that the Beach Boys identified themselves as 'America's Band' and represented American and particularly Californian culture. This didn't JUST appeal to Californians and Americans - fans at UK Beach Boys concerts could be seen with the US flag prominently displayed about their persons, but surely the appeal was greatest to their native land. Perhaps this was part of what David Leaf meant with the words 'California Myth'. The band had made themselves symbols of their nation - obviously that is not something from which it is easy to separate oneself.

I'm thinking aloud here. Just personal opinion but I think the Beach Boys needed a different set list for their UK shows - no doubt there were some differences but they could have afforded to be even more daring.

This is a terrific perspective to add, how the band and the "oldies" and everything else was perceived among fans outside the US. I think as you point out the band did create their own mythology about a California lifestyle with their music being one of the prime messengers of that image. And I think if anything it may have been even more powerful to some fans *outside* the US because it could seem more distant and therefore even more of an ideal than a reality, short of actually booking a flight and traveling or moving to California to see firsthand what the lifestyle really was compared to the version painted in the music.

It was very interesting as well to read a recent report about how the song "Kokomo" wasn't received very strongly when it was performed for a UK audience at a live show, where in the US I'd suggest that song has been one of the major factors since it became a hit on how the band makes certain decisions, and certain assumptions about what fans want from a Beach Boys offering.

[Wirestone]

I think the U.K.-U.S. dichotomy is also important in understanding folks' perspective on this board. Those in the U.K. I think, are far more likely to perceive the band's legacy as secure (it sure ain't in the U.S.), and to see the band as more than Brian's group (given that a Brian-less band actually had a number of hits over there).

[NHC]

How is oldie defined? In 1974 the group was 12 or 13 years old, what was an oldie at that point? How about in 1984 or 1994 or 2004 or 2014?

I remember Carl on the Central Park ('71 or '72) video. He said, "Wanna hear an oldie"?  Then they launched into "Heroes & Villains", which only came out about 4 years previosuly. That may have been an edit in the video, or maybe not.

Most likely an edit as Carl had a 12-string guitar when he said it, yet he played a 6-string on Heroes and Villains. The only other song with broadcast footage of that concert that features Carl on 12-string is Forever.

I'd wondered about that for years. Never thought of it being an edit.  Makes sense, without knowing their perspective on what constitutes an oldie. Seeing it first on the American Band video, and not having any idea what else had already been played, I was expecting something like a hot rod or surfing tune, maybe a Today song . . . any of which would have been just fine with me.

[guitarfool2002]

I think the U.K.-U.S. dichotomy is also important in understanding folks' perspective on this board. Those in the U.K. I think, are far more likely to perceive the band's legacy as secure (it sure ain't in the U.S.), and to see the band as more than Brian's group (given that a Brian-less band actually had a number of hits over there).

Another important semi-related note to consider: These various appearances and US television shows like "Full House", "Home Improvement", "Baywatch", etc. are not anything close in the UK or outside the US in general to what they were when they were being first-run as weekly shows in the US. It's just not the same, I can't explain beyond that...only to compare them in some ways to whatever has been among the most successful television programs in the UK over the past 20 years, and realize I and many others in the US simply have no idea about what they are or how their perceived by audiences in the UK, and vice versa.

I compare it to watching the Beatles Anthology play out on video...the clips from various UK variety and comedy shows came from programs I had never heard of, I surely didn't know the hosts and what they meant to their audiences. Yet Ed Sullivan is or was known to anyone living in the US of a certain age. Same with the Smothers Brothers.

But Morecambe And Wise? I had no idea who they were, and how could I since none of their programs were ever broadcast in the US!  

[Mikie]

How is oldie defined? In 1974 the group was 12 or 13 years old, what was an oldie at that point? How about in 1984 or 1994 or 2004 or 2014?

I remember Carl on the Central Park ('71 or '72) video. He said, "Wanna hear an oldie"?  Then they launched into "Heroes & Villains", which only came out about 4 years previosuly. That may have been an edit in the video, or maybe not.

Most likely an edit as Carl had a 12-string guitar when he said it, yet he played a 6-string on Heroes and Villains. The only other song with broadcast footage of that concert that features Carl on 12-string is Forever.

I'd wondered about that for years. Never thought of it being an edit.  Makes sense, without knowing their perspective on what constitutes an oldie. Seeing it first on the American Band video, and not having any idea what else had already been played, I was expecting something like a hot rod or surfing tune, maybe a Today song . . . any of which would have been just fine with me.

I first saw it on the American Band video, then the Central Park video. I always thought it was weird that Carl would call Heroes & Villains an "oldie" when it wasn't that old! Then I suspected that there was an edit right there before they played the song.

[Mike's Beard]

I live in the UK and can tell you now that nobody outside of hardcore BB fans knows who John Stamos is.

[Mikie]

I live in the UK and can tell you now that nobody outside of hardcore BB fans knows who John Stamos is.

Yeah, but does anybody outside of hardcore BB fans know who Mike's Beard is?

[Lowbacca]

I live in the UK and can tell you now that nobody outside of hardcore BB fans knows who John Stamos is.

I know quite a few people from the UK and I'd venture to say that at least 70% of them know who John Stamos is.

↑ That comment is, by the way, as representative of Stamos' popularity in the UK (and therefore as meaningful) as yours.

[Cam Mott]

Looking at the 1973 setlist and the 1974 setlist it seems the Boys simply played fewer more recent songs and therefore more less recent songs. Soooooo that was their group decision and therefore........?

[Mike's Beard]

I live in the UK and can tell you now that nobody outside of hardcore BB fans knows who John Stamos is.

Yeah, but does anybody outside of hardcore BB fans know who Mike's Beard is?

No one wants to know who Mike's Beard is, not even the people who have heard of him! The point I was making is that as Craig stated, Full House is not a well known show over here. We got Cheers, Friends and Two & a Half Men but Full House seemed to pass us by.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I'm starting to wonder what kind of beer Stamos likes....

[Mikie]

Looking at the 1973 setlist and the 1974 setlist it seems the Boys simply played fewer more recent songs and therefore more less recent songs. Soooooo that was their group decision and therefore........?

Huh? Looks almost like a fairly good balance to me.  Even after Guercio joined them in late '74, I don't see a dramatic increase in "oldies" in the sets. That's why I kinda questioned it.

[Please delete my account]

I live in the UK and can tell you now that nobody outside of hardcore BB fans knows who John Stamos is.

I know quite a few people from the UK and I'd venture to say that at least 70% of them know who John Stamos is.

↑ That comment is, by the way, as representative of Stamos' popularity in the UK (and therefore as meaningful) as yours.

I don't believe you. I'm with Mike's Beard. Never heard of him or his show outside of Beach Boys message boards.

[halblaineisgood]

.

[HeyJude]

To me, the 70’s isn’t the era to look at as far as “oldies” overtaking the setlist. I would peg 1981 as the turning point. With no new album to promote, they not only had no “new” songs to put into the setlist, but had bumped almost all of the “recent” stuff as well. All of the KTSA stuff was gone. “Good Timin’” was gone (briefly revived in 1982 when Carl returned). The only stuff even from the 70’s was stuff like “Sail on Sailor” with Bobby singing, “Lady Lynda”, and not much else. In 82/83 when Carl returned, they briefly spiced up the setlist again. But past that, the only times they spiced up the setlist were brief forays into doing new album stuff (I think for a brief moment they were doing as many as 5-6 cuts from the ’85 album, but I think stuff like “Crack at Your Love” didn’t survive long), and then the late ’93 tour.

1981 was pretty much the first time they started regularly working stuff like “Surfin’ Safari”, “Surfin’” and “The Little Old Lady from Pasadena” into the setlist. This was the first time they had so quickly dropped the “recent album” stuff.

In 1980, they were at least still doing a couple tracks from “LA.” In 1979, they were still doing a few tracks from “MIU”, “Love You”, and “15BO.”

But by 1981, everything from KTSA was dropped. In 1985/86, they quickly dropped all the ’85 album stuff except “Getcha Back”, and even that song didn’t survive more than a year or two. Same thing with “Still Cruisin”, apart from perhaps the awful “Wipe Out” bit they continued to do.

[Cam Mott]

Looking at the 1973 setlist and the 1974 setlist it seems the Boys simply played fewer more recent songs and therefore more less recent songs. Soooooo that was their group decision and therefore........?

Huh? Looks almost like a fairly good balance to me.  Even after Guercio joined them in late '74, I don't see a dramatic increase in "oldies" in the sets. That's why I kinda questioned it.

Maybe we are just assuming it was at the beginning, maybe it was at the end or even after. When did Guercio leave the band, or end his association with the group and/or Dennis?

Edit: it would be before Dennis' death but unless someone said different it could have possibly been anytime before.

[Mikie]

Guercio left in the Spring of '76, then Steve Love took over as Manager. It's easy to speculate that any changes to the setlist would be based on the success of Endless Summer, Spirit Of America, and Good Vibrations. Hell, even the re-release of the Surfin' USA single was a big success!

[Pretty Funky]

I live in the UK and can tell you now that nobody outside of hardcore BB fans knows who John Stamos is.

I've been to the UK and can tell you now that nobody knows what a dentist is.


(sorry...blame it on the Male Ego thread)

[filledeplage]

I'm starting to wonder what kind of beer Stamos likes....

How about this kind? 

The Smiley Smile Classic Virtual brew!   

[metal flake paint]

How is oldie defined? In 1974 the group was 12 or 13 years old, what was an oldie at that point? How about in 1984 or 1994 or 2004 or 2014?

I remember Carl on the Central Park ('71 or '72) video. He said, "Wanna hear an oldie"?  Then they launched into "Heroes & Villains", which only came out about 4 years previosuly. That may have been an edit in the video, or maybe not.

Most likely an edit as Carl had a 12-string guitar when he said it, yet he played a 6-string on Heroes and Villains. The only other song with broadcast footage of that concert that features Carl on 12-string is Forever.

I'd wondered about that for years. Never thought of it being an edit.  Makes sense, without knowing their perspective on what constitutes an oldie. Seeing it first on the American Band video, and not having any idea what else had already been played, I was expecting something like a hot rod or surfing tune, maybe a Today song . . . any of which would have been just fine with me.

Interestingly, the broadcast footage (as opposed to the footage in AAB) shows the band launching into "I Get Around" after Carl's '"oldie" aside, again with Carl playing 6-string. The more I listen to that "oldie" segment, the more I'm hearing the intro to "In My Room."

[NHC]

How is oldie defined? In 1974 the group was 12 or 13 years old, what was an oldie at that point? How about in 1984 or 1994 or 2004 or 2014?

I remember Carl on the Central Park ('71 or '72) video. He said, "Wanna hear an oldie"?  Then they launched into "Heroes & Villains", which only came out about 4 years previosuly. That may have been an edit in the video, or maybe not.

Most likely an edit as Carl had a 12-string guitar when he said it, yet he played a 6-string on Heroes and Villains. The only other song with broadcast footage of that concert that features Carl on 12-string is Forever.

I'd wondered about that for years. Never thought of it being an edit.  Makes sense, without knowing their perspective on what constitutes an oldie. Seeing it first on the American Band video, and not having any idea what else had already been played, I was expecting something like a hot rod or surfing tune, maybe a Today song . . . any of which would have been just fine with me.

Interestingly, the broadcast footage (as opposed to the footage in AAB) shows the band launching into "I Get Around" after Carl's '"oldie" aside, again with Carl playing 6-string. The more I listen to that "oldie" segment, the more I'm hearing the intro to "In My Room."

That's funny. I just pulled 'I Get Around' out randomly when I wrote that comment.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I'm starting to wonder what kind of beer Stamos likes....

How about this kind? 

The Smiley Smile Classic Virtual brew!   

It's open bar for him at Club Kokomo, so it's probably Bud Light :/