Stamos accused…

[drbeachboy]

A lot of fuss about nothing...

When I read the thread title I was expecting it to be about much more serious issues.

Stamos singing half a song two years ago is of no importance anymore and Nelson can`t have been thinking straight when he made his post.

You are right of course, but Nelson had to know that most of his Facebook views would be from Brian Wilson/Beach Boys fans and that does make it a big deal, for us. It's taken up three pages here in just a few hours. Still amazed that with both of those guys playing right next to one another that they would see this issue completely different. I doubt either could prove that they are correct and surely has to be an opinion by both parties.

[HeyJude]

A lot of fuss about nothing...

When I read the thread title I was expecting it to be about much more serious issues.

Stamos singing half a song two years ago is of no importance anymore and Nelson can`t have been thinking straight when he made his post.

I know misspellings and crazy punctuation and grammar are par for the course on facebook and the like, those things do tend to undercut the credibility of what's being said.

A much more cogent argument that would have allowed for no accusations to be made would have been preferable. A strong case can be made that Stamos is a "douche", or that jumping on stage is a douche maneuver.

But unless there is proof or at least some more specifics about what happened, the post does come across like it was written as a crackpot conspiracy theory. As someone else mentioned, how would this have occurred? Would he have had to go pull some cables out of the mixing board, or be in cahoots with someone on the crew? Far from impossible, but it would take a lot of maneuvering.

On the other hand, it's kind of a heavy accusation to make if he didn't know anything more than what the fans know, and he's just assuming. As others have mentioned, it does seem pretty darn coincidental that the one song Stamos sings on stage with the band malfunctioned on the specific night Stamos was in attendance.

As someone else also mentioned, the semi-dig at other band members is intriguing.

Congratulations Beach Boys. Now the dysfunction has spread from you to your fans and now to your backing band members.

What does Ed Carter have to say about all of this?  

[HeyJude]

I'm guessing that Stamos wouldn't have been involved at all regardless of the backing bands opinions without the consent of the principal Beach Boys.

Which principal Beach Boy(s) would be the question to ask?

My guess would be BRI: Brian, Al, Mike, and Carl's Estate's attorney.

I'm only guessing, but I HIGHLY doubt the members of BRI were consulted and permission asked for someone to sit in for part of the set for one or two nights. I would tend to doubt such a thing is required either.

A bigger and more interesting question to me is this: Setting aside any contractual/legal issues, did Mike (and/or any other involved parties) ask the other BB's (specifically, the corporate members Brian and Al) if Stamos could sit it, or did he simply *tell* them Stamos would be sitting in? Did Brian and/or his people know how active Stamos would be on stage?

I haven't gone back and read the contemporary reviews of those two Beacon shows, but I recall some suggesting some sort of "talking to" had to have occurred, resulting in Stamos being much more low key on the second night on stage, and not appearing again during the tour (or did he make one other appearance later?; I vaguely recall that happening).

[Mikie]

I don't think Nelson needed to make the post he did, but John certainly could've sent him a private message (and maybe he did) asking Nelson to pull the post down.

Guess you're not familiar with Facebook. If you post something on yours or somebody else's page, you can edit or delete it yourself. Just like this board. Bragg left his message and Cowsill left two or three up there for quite awhile.

[HeyJude]

I’ve said before in other threads, while Stamos himself and “Stamos Incident” from 2012 had no particular actual impact on the band or its legacy, that Stamos situation is a good representation of the dissonance between the ideological/musical/cultural/personality differences between the two main “camps.”

Stamos serves a very good purpose as a sort of litmus test. Whether you like him or loathe him and/or his presence on stage, if you told me that there are two people, two “camps”, one of which *loves* everything about Stamos and his being in the band while the other finds it all annoying and inappropriate, I’d tell you those are two people and two camps that are probably very different from each other in many ways.

As for the “Forever” incident, I won’t reiterate in detail my thoughts on that from my posts back in 2012. Regardless of how the “malfunction” happened, I think it could have been handled differently. Stamos did not *have* to get up there at all. The performance was already a shambles, at least from a technical/logistical standpoint. That he sang the lead vocal for the latter portion of the song did not erase the malfunction from the minds of the audience. He could have let them finish the song as an instrumental, or I can’t imagine he couldn’t have gone back on stage and screamed into one of the band members’ ears that no lead was going out to the audience, and tell them to pick the lead vocal up, and if that didn’t work, then just ride the song out as an instrumental. I know it’s loud and confusing on stage, but it could have been attempted. Frankly, as a “guest” that night, Stamos should have let Foskett or Totten take the lead before he did.

The band and the show in general would not have been measurably worse if they had just done the song as an instrumental, and/or stopped cold and restarted it later. Taking the lead did not “save” the show; it only drew more attention to the malfunction and more attention to Stamos.

It was a split second decision.  And I don't think an instrumental version would have been any better.  The video failed and either scenario wasn't going to improve the situation, the audio dropped and the video continued to flicker on and off even as John began to sing.  There was no way around it.  The line "the show must go on" applies here and while the principles were guilty of being caught in the headlights, they decided to push forward and Stamos thought it'd be best to at least salvage the situation as best as he thought.

I simply disagree with these assertions. An instrumental version would not have been particularly better (unless one is inclined to really dislike Stamos being involved), but it would not have been any worse. All else being equal, I think the classy, non-egotistical thing to do would have been to stay back and not jump in. "The show must go on" isn't applicable here. The show was going on, and would have gone on. Stamos didn't save the drums from falling into a water tank or something. He didn't keep the stage set from collapsing. His stepping in was not needed.

The only positive that came out of him stepping in to sing was an ego boost for him, another chance to showboat. Howie Edelson has even mentioned there were groans from the audience about it. Many fans came away feeling the entire show was worse for Stamos being there, especially being so present.

[Nicko1234]

I simply disagree with these assertions. An instrumental version would not have been particularly better (unless one is inclined to really dislike Stamos being involved), but it would not have been any worse. All else being equal, I think the classy, non-egotistical thing to do would have been to stay back and not jump in. "The show must go on" isn't applicable here. The show was going on, and would have gone on. Stamos didn't save the drums from falling into a water tank or something. He didn't keep the stage set from collapsing. His stepping in was not needed.

The only positive that came out of him stepping in to sing was an ego boost for him, another chance to showboat. Howie Edelson has even mentioned there were groans from the audience about it. Many fans came away feeling the entire show was worse for Stamos being there, especially being so present.

Maybe there were. But the sound of cheering drowns them out on the video. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I’ve said before in other threads, while Stamos himself and “Stamos Incident” from 2012 had no particular actual impact on the band or its legacy, that Stamos situation is a good representation of the dissonance between the ideological/musical/cultural/personality differences between the two main “camps.”

Stamos serves a very good purpose as a sort of litmus test. Whether you like him or loathe him and/or his presence on stage, if you told me that there are two people, two “camps”, one of which *loves* everything about Stamos and his being in the band while the other finds it all annoying and inappropriate, I’d tell you those are two people and two camps that are probably very different from each other in many ways.

As for the “Forever” incident, I won’t reiterate in detail my thoughts on that from my posts back in 2012. Regardless of how the “malfunction” happened, I think it could have been handled differently. Stamos did not *have* to get up there at all. The performance was already a shambles, at least from a technical/logistical standpoint. That he sang the lead vocal for the latter portion of the song did not erase the malfunction from the minds of the audience. He could have let them finish the song as an instrumental, or I can’t imagine he couldn’t have gone back on stage and screamed into one of the band members’ ears that no lead was going out to the audience, and tell them to pick the lead vocal up, and if that didn’t work, then just ride the song out as an instrumental. I know it’s loud and confusing on stage, but it could have been attempted. Frankly, as a “guest” that night, Stamos should have let Foskett or Totten take the lead before he did.

The band and the show in general would not have been measurably worse if they had just done the song as an instrumental, and/or stopped cold and restarted it later. Taking the lead did not “save” the show; it only drew more attention to the malfunction and more attention to Stamos.

It was a split second decision.  And I don't think an instrumental version would have been any better.  The video failed and either scenario wasn't going to improve the situation, the audio dropped and the video continued to flicker on and off even as John began to sing.  There was no way around it.  The line "the show must go on" applies here and while the principles were guilty of being caught in the headlights, they decided to push forward and Stamos thought it'd be best to at least salvage the situation as best as he thought.

I simply disagree with these assertions. An instrumental version would not have been particularly better (unless one is inclined to really dislike Stamos being involved), but it would not have been any worse. All else being equal, I think the classy, non-egotistical thing to do would have been to stay back and not jump in. "The show must go on" isn't applicable here. The show was going on, and would have gone on. Stamos didn't save the drums from falling into a water tank or something. He didn't keep the stage set from collapsing. His stepping in was not needed.

The only positive that came out of him stepping in to sing was an ego boost for him, another chance to showboat. Howie Edelson has even mentioned there were groans from the audience about it. Many fans came away feeling the entire show was worse for Stamos being there, especially being so present.

How many other singers were standing there who could have more than capably leaned in the whole half inch to their already stationed mic and started singing? I mean Jeff's standing there who's primary job (in part) is to start singing when/if Brian craps out or something. I find it a bit tough to swallow that no one else thought to take up the slack ........ unless none of them could remember the words unprepared!  .... If it indeed hadn't been planned and everyone was just standing there looking at each other, then why not jump in if you're Stamos and know the words?

[HeyJude]

I’ve said before in other threads, while Stamos himself and “Stamos Incident” from 2012 had no particular actual impact on the band or its legacy, that Stamos situation is a good representation of the dissonance between the ideological/musical/cultural/personality differences between the two main “camps.”

Stamos serves a very good purpose as a sort of litmus test. Whether you like him or loathe him and/or his presence on stage, if you told me that there are two people, two “camps”, one of which *loves* everything about Stamos and his being in the band while the other finds it all annoying and inappropriate, I’d tell you those are two people and two camps that are probably very different from each other in many ways.

As for the “Forever” incident, I won’t reiterate in detail my thoughts on that from my posts back in 2012. Regardless of how the “malfunction” happened, I think it could have been handled differently. Stamos did not *have* to get up there at all. The performance was already a shambles, at least from a technical/logistical standpoint. That he sang the lead vocal for the latter portion of the song did not erase the malfunction from the minds of the audience. He could have let them finish the song as an instrumental, or I can’t imagine he couldn’t have gone back on stage and screamed into one of the band members’ ears that no lead was going out to the audience, and tell them to pick the lead vocal up, and if that didn’t work, then just ride the song out as an instrumental. I know it’s loud and confusing on stage, but it could have been attempted. Frankly, as a “guest” that night, Stamos should have let Foskett or Totten take the lead before he did.

The band and the show in general would not have been measurably worse if they had just done the song as an instrumental, and/or stopped cold and restarted it later. Taking the lead did not “save” the show; it only drew more attention to the malfunction and more attention to Stamos.

It was a split second decision.  And I don't think an instrumental version would have been any better.  The video failed and either scenario wasn't going to improve the situation, the audio dropped and the video continued to flicker on and off even as John began to sing.  There was no way around it.  The line "the show must go on" applies here and while the principles were guilty of being caught in the headlights, they decided to push forward and Stamos thought it'd be best to at least salvage the situation as best as he thought.

I simply disagree with these assertions. An instrumental version would not have been particularly better (unless one is inclined to really dislike Stamos being involved), but it would not have been any worse. All else being equal, I think the classy, non-egotistical thing to do would have been to stay back and not jump in. "The show must go on" isn't applicable here. The show was going on, and would have gone on. Stamos didn't save the drums from falling into a water tank or something. He didn't keep the stage set from collapsing. His stepping in was not needed.

The only positive that came out of him stepping in to sing was an ego boost for him, another chance to showboat. Howie Edelson has even mentioned there were groans from the audience about it. Many fans came away feeling the entire show was worse for Stamos being there, especially being so present.

How many other singers were standing there who could have more than capably leaned in the whole half inch to their already stationed mic and started singing? I mean Jeff's standing there who's primary job (in part) is to start singing when/if Brian craps out or something. I find it a bit tough to swallow that no one else thought to take up the slack ........ unless none of them could remember the words unprepared!  .... If it indeed hadn't been planned and everyone was just standing there looking at each other, then why not jump in if you're Stamos and know the words?

I would guess almost everybody on stage, with the possible exception of Al who still misses the words to "Wouldn't It Be Nice" almost 50 years later, knew the words to the song.  It seems pretty clear the Dennis vocal track was making it through their on-stage monitors (the monitors are run through a different board than the main soundboard that goes out to the PA). The people on stage didn't know the Dennis vocal wasn't making it to the PA apparently.

That doesn't mean Stamos had to start singing. He could have left it alone, or, as I mentioned elsewhere, he could have shouted really loud in a band member's ear that someone needed to pick up the vocal. Would Stamos have started singing "God Only Knows" if there had been a malfunction there? There's an interesting question! I would guess no. It's an ego thing. "Forever" is "his" song.

[drbeachboy]

Everything has been taken down at Nelson's Facebook page.

[Nicko1234]

I would guess almost everybody on stage, with the possible exception of Al who still misses the words to "Wouldn't It Be Nice" almost 50 years later, knew the words to the song.  It seems pretty clear the Dennis vocal track was making it through their on-stage monitors (the monitors are run through a different board than the main soundboard that goes out to the PA). The people on stage didn't know the Dennis vocal wasn't making it to the PA apparently.

That doesn't mean Stamos had to start singing. He could have left it alone, or, as I mentioned elsewhere, he could have shouted really loud in a band member's ear that someone needed to pick up the vocal. Would Stamos have started singing "God Only Knows" if there had been a malfunction there? There's an interesting question! I would guess no. It's an ego thing. "Forever" is "his" song.

David Marks must know the words. But not Mike, Brian or Al I would guess.

Stamos singing it was certainly better than it remaining as an instrumental anyway as the response from the crowd indicates.

[Mikie]

To me, Stamos was the most qualified to step forward. Second would be Dave, who had sung it previously. But Stamos knows the song very well. He recorded a cover of it. Brian could have done it with a teleprompter and Jeff may or may not have been able to sing it without a teleprompter. I doubt very much anyone else could have sung it, especially without a teleprompter. Plus, Stamos has a voice closer to Dennis. +1 for Stamos. Also, I can't believe anyone would give Stamos "a talking to" afterward, as if to reprimand him. I would've thought just the opposite. Mike's the leader and don't think he said anything negative to his bud, and Brian (or Al) certainly would not have.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I’ve said before in other threads, while Stamos himself and “Stamos Incident” from 2012 had no particular actual impact on the band or its legacy, that Stamos situation is a good representation of the dissonance between the ideological/musical/cultural/personality differences between the two main “camps.”

Stamos serves a very good purpose as a sort of litmus test. Whether you like him or loathe him and/or his presence on stage, if you told me that there are two people, two “camps”, one of which *loves* everything about Stamos and his being in the band while the other finds it all annoying and inappropriate, I’d tell you those are two people and two camps that are probably very different from each other in many ways.

As for the “Forever” incident, I won’t reiterate in detail my thoughts on that from my posts back in 2012. Regardless of how the “malfunction” happened, I think it could have been handled differently. Stamos did not *have* to get up there at all. The performance was already a shambles, at least from a technical/logistical standpoint. That he sang the lead vocal for the latter portion of the song did not erase the malfunction from the minds of the audience. He could have let them finish the song as an instrumental, or I can’t imagine he couldn’t have gone back on stage and screamed into one of the band members’ ears that no lead was going out to the audience, and tell them to pick the lead vocal up, and if that didn’t work, then just ride the song out as an instrumental. I know it’s loud and confusing on stage, but it could have been attempted. Frankly, as a “guest” that night, Stamos should have let Foskett or Totten take the lead before he did.

The band and the show in general would not have been measurably worse if they had just done the song as an instrumental, and/or stopped cold and restarted it later. Taking the lead did not “save” the show; it only drew more attention to the malfunction and more attention to Stamos.

It was a split second decision.  And I don't think an instrumental version would have been any better.  The video failed and either scenario wasn't going to improve the situation, the audio dropped and the video continued to flicker on and off even as John began to sing.  There was no way around it.  The line "the show must go on" applies here and while the principles were guilty of being caught in the headlights, they decided to push forward and Stamos thought it'd be best to at least salvage the situation as best as he thought.

I simply disagree with these assertions. An instrumental version would not have been particularly better (unless one is inclined to really dislike Stamos being involved), but it would not have been any worse. All else being equal, I think the classy, non-egotistical thing to do would have been to stay back and not jump in. "The show must go on" isn't applicable here. The show was going on, and would have gone on. Stamos didn't save the drums from falling into a water tank or something. He didn't keep the stage set from collapsing. His stepping in was not needed.

The only positive that came out of him stepping in to sing was an ego boost for him, another chance to showboat. Howie Edelson has even mentioned there were groans from the audience about it. Many fans came away feeling the entire show was worse for Stamos being there, especially being so present.

How many other singers were standing there who could have more than capably leaned in the whole half inch to their already stationed mic and started singing? I mean Jeff's standing there who's primary job (in part) is to start singing when/if Brian craps out or something. I find it a bit tough to swallow that no one else thought to take up the slack ........ unless none of them could remember the words unprepared!  .... If it indeed hadn't been planned and everyone was just standing there looking at each other, then why not jump in if you're Stamos and know the words?

I would guess almost everybody on stage, with the possible exception of Al who still misses the words to "Wouldn't It Be Nice" almost 50 years later, knew the words to the song.  It seems pretty clear the Dennis vocal track was making it through their on-stage monitors (the monitors are run through a different board than the main soundboard that goes out to the PA). The people on stage didn't know the Dennis vocal wasn't making it to the PA apparently.

That doesn't mean Stamos had to start singing. He could have left it alone, or, as I mentioned elsewhere, he could have shouted really loud in a band member's ear that someone needed to pick up the vocal. Would Stamos have started singing "God Only Knows" if there had been a malfunction there? There's an interesting question! I would guess no. It's an ego thing. "Forever" is "his" song.

More important question: was Bruce adjusting his mic at that moment?

[Wirestone]

Mike's the leader

Not on the C50 he wasn't. Very much a shared deal with Brian.

And Stamos never showed up again on that tour, either ...

Edit: Apparently not. More's the pity.

[Gertie J.]

Everything has been taken down at Nelson's Facebook page.

ahh, dude's covering his ass. too late......

[Justin]

I simply disagree with these assertions. An instrumental version would not have been particularly better (unless one is inclined to really dislike Stamos being involved), but it would not have been any worse. All else being equal, I think the classy, non-egotistical thing to do would have been to stay back and not jump in. "The show must go on" isn't applicable here. The show was going on, and would have gone on. Stamos didn't save the drums from falling into a water tank or something. He didn't keep the stage set from collapsing. His stepping in was not needed.

The only positive that came out of him stepping in to sing was an ego boost for him, another chance to showboat. Howie Edelson has even mentioned there were groans from the audience about it. Many fans came away feeling the entire show was worse for Stamos being there, especially being so present.

Many fans may have felt that way but I surely did not.  Maybe I didn't hear the groans being in the first row of the theater myself.

I think any rational spectator would have seen the incident as Stamos being a team player for the band by helping out and not a move based on ego.  Instead of letting the song flounder and making it a weird 4 minutes, he chose to do something instead of nothing.  A mistake occurred and Stamos jumped in to alleviate the awkwardness on stage of a bunch of guys singing to no lead vocal.  Fans who were truly bothered by that really don't know when to turn off the Stamos hate switch.  Once again had it been anyone else--we wouldn't even be having this conversation.  Had Neil Young jumped in and sung "Forever" like that it would've been "wow so cool!  Good for Neil" but because it's Stamos--he's an ego maniac.

Criticizing Stamos to this level is a frankly, overkill. 

[KittyKat]

Mike's the leader

Not on the C50 he wasn't. Very much a shared deal with Brian.

And Stamos never showed up again on that tour, either ...

Yes, but he showed up in the first place. Which may have been with the agreement of Brian, or at least due to Brian not objecting.

I do recall reading that Stamos withdrawing from the tour was by his own choice. He said he didn't feel welcome, which may have had something to do with his being aware of what fans in places like this were saying about him. It could have been members of Brian's band giving him the stinkeye. I doubt Brian himself said anything, since he's notoriously non-confrontational.

[Mikie]

Mike's the leader

Not on the C50 he wasn't. Very much a shared deal with Brian.

And Stamos never showed up again on that tour, either ...

Still, I couldn't see Brian reprimanding Stamos either.

[Justin]

To me, Stamos was the most qualified to step forward. Second would be Dave, who had sung it previously. But Stamos knows the song very well. He recorded a cover of it. Brian could have done it with a teleprompter and Jeff may or may not have been able to sing it without a teleprompter. I doubt very much anyone else could have sung it, especially without a teleprompter. Plus, Stamos has a voice closer to Dennis. +1 for Stamos. Also, I can't believe anyone would give Stamos "a talking to" afterward, as if to reprimand him. I would've thought just the opposite. Mike's the leader and don't think he said anything negative to his bud, and Brian (or Al) certainly would not have.

Yup.  Stamos knows the song very well.  He performs it whenever he plays on stage with M&B.  Sure one of the other dudes could have sung it but the fact is no one did.  Looking at the video, it's clear that everyone was waiting for SOMEONE to make the first move.  No one wanted to take charge...not because of laziness but because no one felt qualified enough to do it.  It looks like most of the guys were waiting, hoping that the video would somehow correct itself if they continued on.

[Mikie]

Again, I think Justin's on the money. On all counts. 10-4 - over and out.

[filledeplage]

Mike's the leader

Not on the C50 he wasn't. Very much a shared deal with Brian.

And Stamos never showed up again on that tour, either ...

Beacon Theater C50 was early May and Stamos did the Jones Beach intro around the 22nd of June a month later.  

Stamos has "Sweat Equity" in Forever.  People argue with success.  All three guys are great performers, and  gifted and passionate about everything.  Sometimes it gets noisy and fiery.  Goes with the artistic territory. They aren't accountants.

IIRC that video looked like a glitch. I wasn't there.  I'm no eyewitness.

I saw Stamos sing Forever in NJ last weekend to a packed house and enthusiasm that harkens back decades. Anyone who denies what Stamos did for general BB popularity is in serious denial, in my opinion.  Ask young people (non music majors) how they came to know the BB music.  Guess what! Full House! It was like a cult for that generation.  

[ToneBender631]

I don't think Nelson needed to make the post he did, but John certainly could've sent him a private message (and maybe he did) asking Nelson to pull the post down.

Guess you're not familiar with Facebook. If you post something on yours or somebody else's page, you can edit or delete it yourself. Just like this board. Bragg left his message and Cowsill left two or three up there for quite awhile.

Actually, I was suggesting that John could've private messaged Nelson and asked him to pull down the original post that Nelson made.

[Justin]

Would Stamos have started singing "God Only Knows" if there had been a malfunction there? There's an interesting question!

And frankly, a ridiculous one.  

"God Only Knows" is a Beach Boys classic staple and nowhere near the popularity or familiarity of "Forever." Had the Carl video malfunctioned as well---Stamos would have been smart enough to guess that someone on that stage would have picked up the slack and filled in.  The song is part of the BB canon of greatest hits like "Surfin' USA" or "Good Vibrations."  Plus he is aware that he has no business singing that song when Brian Wilson is on stage.  Like it or not, Stamos has made himself the sole "caretaker" of the tune "Forever": over the years he has reintroduced "Forever" both to mainstream audiences by performing it on "Full House" and also to the BB's own fanbase by performing it whenever he's played with M&B.  It's a relatively obscure tune to mainstream audiences and if Stamos isn't present, the M&B band don't even play the song.  Sure David has sung it too, but Stamos has undoubtedly put his stamp on the song--like it or not.  With that said, maybe that explains why there was such a long gap during the Beacon malfunction before Stamos finally jumped in---perhaps he was waiting for David Marks to jump in?  When it was clear that David was not taking over...Stamos took it upon himself to correct the mistake.  Not a big deal--unless you have a personal problem with Stamos of course.

[Justin]

Again, I think Justin's on the money. On all counts. 10-4 - over and out.

 

[ToneBender631]

Mike's the leader

Not on the C50 he wasn't. Very much a shared deal with Brian.

And Stamos never showed up again on that tour, either ...

Beacon Theater C50 was early May and Stamos did the Jones Beach intro around the 22nd of June a month later.  

He did more than handle the "intro" at Jones Beach, and as I noted earlier, Nelson seemed more than a little peeved at John that night when he had some issues with the drums on "I Get Around".

[Mikie]

Actually, I was suggesting that John could've private messaged Nelson and asked him to pull down the original post that Nelson made.

And if you'd read my post prior to yours, you would have seen that I had suggested that already.  Maybe there's an echo on this board.