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Author Topic: National Basketball Association ('14-'15)  (Read 164258 times)
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the captain
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« Reply #200 on: October 31, 2014, 05:31:48 AM »

The other day I mentioned how rough OKC was looking fue in large part to injuries... Last night, Russell Westbrook broke his right hand. Hello, Sebastian Telfair. Ouch.
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« Reply #201 on: October 31, 2014, 12:33:45 PM »

Today, Jennings says 'He (DJ Augustin) should start and I'll be the backup', in response to hearing that Van Gundy said that Augustin has been the better point guard the last two games.  Yep, it's gonna be a long season.
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the captain
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« Reply #202 on: October 31, 2014, 12:40:06 PM »

I read SVG's criticism of the starters (minus KCP). Ouch. Called them quitters etc.
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« Reply #203 on: October 31, 2014, 12:49:13 PM »

Detroit is really going to have a season in hell.
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« Reply #204 on: October 31, 2014, 01:01:17 PM »

There is real talent there. You just worry about:

- Jennings' attitude. Shoot- or pass-first? Lead or pout?

- Frontcourt logjam. C and PF have 96 minutes total. Drummond, Monroe and Smith warrant about 110 minutes at those spots...to say nothing about their challenges meshing.

- Smith thinks the previous bullet is moot, as he fancies himself a wing. He'd be right, if he had any shot selection to speak of.

- Did I mention Jennings' attitude?
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« Reply #205 on: October 31, 2014, 01:34:49 PM »

Even if they have a shitty season, at least it appears (at this time) that SVG isn't gonna put up with guys' bullshit. You don't want to play the right way, sit down.

I'd almost be willing to deal with Jennings bullshit if they'd find a way to get rid of Smith. If he could just learn to not shoot the f'n ball every time he has it! I just don't understand how he can look at his stats and think that he can continue to shoot it like he does. I like the pieces that we went out and got this year better than I like most of the guys that were already there; give me Augustin and Butler any day over Jennings and Smith.

So anyway...Cleveland loses the game last night to a bad Knicks team. At first, it surprised me, as I was sure Cleveland would run them out of the gym. Then I started thinking that there were probably a lot of nerves there; Lebron didn't actually play that well, and the rest of the team has to learn that every night, the other team is going to play their asses off.
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the captain
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« Reply #206 on: October 31, 2014, 01:39:50 PM »

Yeah Cleveland is going to be fine. Like 55-62 wins kind of fine.
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« Reply #207 on: October 31, 2014, 03:56:16 PM »

Captain, You didn't mention that Vanilla Ice wowed 'em during the halftime show last night in Minnesota! Shocked Cheesy
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the captain
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« Reply #208 on: October 31, 2014, 04:53:02 PM »

What!? I didn't watch during halftime. Was Vanilla Ice really there??

Because I'm really that big of a geek (and what can I say, getting old & not that big a fan of parties) I'm settling in for Cavs-Bulls tonight in lieu of Halloween festivities.
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« Reply #209 on: November 01, 2014, 03:51:29 AM »

Sebastian Telfair? As in SI cover boy? Starbury's cousin? Next big thing? I didn't even know he was still in the league.
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the captain
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« Reply #210 on: November 01, 2014, 05:24:22 AM »

The one and only. He has bounced around a lot but basically been in the league throughout the past decade. And you know what? He's actually turned into a good backup point. Can't shoot a bit, but he's really quick, defends well (esp for a little guard), gets the offense going, passes well. But it hasn't been anything like the hype projected.

The hype machines are never fair, especially when dealing with kids.
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« Reply #211 on: November 01, 2014, 03:51:34 PM »

Anymore, the hype is out of control. It seems if a kid is a high school stud, you hear all sorts of 'experts' saying that 'if they still allowed kids to go the the league right out of high school, this kid would be a lottery pick'. I'm already hearing it with that Okafor kid at Duke. Remember how Jabari was going to dominate? He still might, but he hasn't had an explosive start.

I remember 4 kids being on the cover of SI; Lebron, Telfair, Jabari, and Felipe Lopez. Only Lebron has lived up to that hype (Jabari might, don't get me wrong!). There's a part of me that thinks it's a sin to put a young kid like that on the cover. All of that pressure.

We had a guy play at Michigan State, Kelvin Torbert. The next big thing. Could've went to the NBA as a lottery pick (they were still doing it back then). He came in, everyone figured for only a year, and he was going to be gone. And the poor kid struggled. Really nice kid, wasn't a trouble maker, had his head on straight. It just didn't work out. For four years everyone waited for him to finally just explode and dominate, and it didn't happen.
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the captain
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« Reply #212 on: November 01, 2014, 04:10:01 PM »

This is actually an issue I've spent a TON of time on. For what? Geekdom, I guess. I think it was just irrationally interesting to me, both with the high school to college, and then the college to NBA transitions.

The hype has been exploding over the past 20 years in particular, but it does go back a while. I recall Felipe Lopez in the mid 90s or so being one HUGE example. He was one of the first "next Jordan" guys I recall. He might have been on the cover of SI and he was absolutely on the cover of many college preview magazines. Well, Lopez struggled early because he couldn't really shoot. He got better and eventually made the NBA (playing for the Wolves for a bit), but was never more than a role player.

Still, you can take that and say it's two steps removed, right? Lopez was a freakishly good HS player and a mediocre NBA player, but he was still a great collegian before it was done, right?

Yes.

Then your example of Torbert (whom I remember well, being focused on B10 more than other leagues because of my location) is a HS to college, but still, that's the lower level. Let's go to the college to NBA level. That's where we should know better because we've had more time to evaluate prospects.

Still HUGELY problematic. Not quite a crap shoot, but not as much better as you'd think. This topic interests me because people are always so infatuated with draft picks, with prospects. Our current example in Minnesota is the complaints about trading Miami's 1st rounder to Philly for Thad Young. We're hearing in the national and local media how stupid that was, how the pick is better than Young.

Exfuckingscuse me? Thad Young is a career 13.5 and 5.5 player. This year, on an atrocious Wolves team where he starts, I'd bet he is likely to be closer to 17 and 8.

That Miami pick is most likely going to land somewhere between 14 and 20 (as they could be so bad as to barely miss the playoffs, or maybe make it as a lower seed). So let's take a BEST CASE scenario and say it is 14. I did a little analysis in 2009 or so of the drafts between 1991 and 2004 (allowing me at least 5 years of history for each player), documenting everyone's stats and then looking at averages by draft position, as well. The #14 pick as of that time was likely to be a career 7.7 ppg, 3 rpg, 1.5 apg player. His best season was, on average, 10.1 ppg, 4.6 rpg, and 2.2 apg. That's the average of the 14th picks' BEST seasons in that range. Want to look a little more position-specific? Here are the power forwards taken with the 13th, 14th, and 15th picks during the time of that analysis.

13th
Eric Williams, Providence
Mo Taylor, Michigan
Troy Murphy, Notre Dame
Kris Humphries, Minnesota

14th
Anthony Avent, Seton Hall
Doug Edwards, Florida State
Al Jefferson, (no college)

15th
Chris Gatling, Old Dominion
Cliff Rozier, Louisville
Alan Henderson, Indiana
Kirk Haston, Indiana

Of those guys, one is undoubtedly better than Young: Al Jefferson, who has been a great PF/C on some awful, awful teams. Then a few guys (Gatling, Humphries, Taylor, Williams) were at least legitimate NBA players, though none was even a legitimate, perennial starter.

Let's think about who the Wolves would likely get with the #14 pick in 2015, and consider the likelihood that player would be better than the in-the-bank 15 and 5 Young has averaged in his career. The odds are ... bad. Really bad. Really, really bad.

We get excited over hype. Sometimes it's McDonalds All Americans and their transitions to college. Other times it's college or international players and their transitions to the pros via the draft. But the reality is, there are huge numbers of players who never live up to anything near their comparisons, to their hype.

They say one in the hand is worth two in the bush. The h(y)(o)pe business doesn't want you to believe it. In sports, believe it.
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« Reply #213 on: November 01, 2014, 06:38:28 PM »

Bulls, even without Rose tonight, are predictably applying a beat-down in Minnesota. The game isn't even as close as it looks, as they've been liberal with minutes to Mirotic, Snell, and Brooks.

Scary moment: mid-air collision between Butler and Thad Young that seemed to knock Thad out momentarily and seems to have him out of the game. That's 20+ points.
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« Reply #214 on: November 01, 2014, 06:43:22 PM »

Right when I say that, Wiggins and Bennett lead a run that gets us within 2... (I'm still not optimistic for this one. Energized, hopeful, not optimistic.)
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« Reply #215 on: November 01, 2014, 07:47:13 PM »

Hell of a game decided by a rookie mistake, though there were some bad calls and some sloppy non-finishes around the rim that didn't help.
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« Reply #216 on: November 03, 2014, 04:34:09 PM »

No Wolves til Wednesday but enjoying the season this first week.

Anybody have strong feelings or thoughts on the young season?
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« Reply #217 on: November 03, 2014, 07:33:15 PM »

No Wolves til Wednesday but enjoying the season this first week.

Anybody have strong feelings or thoughts on the young season?

I've been enjoying the season so far, too. I don't have any earth-shattering observations, but a lot of questions.

- It took Lebron James and The Big Three awhile before they really jelled and consistently dominated in Miami. I'm wondering how long it will take for James-Love-Irving to do the same. Will they play together well enough to win a championship...this year?

- Can Derrick Rose stay healthy for an entire season, and, if he does, can Chicago win it all this year?

- I watched the Knicks beat the Cavaliers in the first game of the year. How long will it take Phil Jackson to spin his magic with the Knicks? Immediately? One year? Two years? More?

- Can Oklahoma stay alive long enough until Durant and Westbrook return? If they can make the playoffs, will the rest/time off actually help Durant and Westbrook in the long run? They log a lot of minutes and play hard...

- A lot of people are picking the Clippers to make a strong run for a championship this year. Wouldn't it be ironic - and poetic justice - if after 30+ years of mostly losing and not even sniffing a championship under the ownership of Donald Sterling, that in the first year of a Sterling-less regime, the Clippers would win it all! Shocked
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« Reply #218 on: November 08, 2014, 08:31:24 AM »

I just read that Dion Waiters stayed back in the locker room for the National anthem last night, due to his religion. f*** him. If you don't like the American way, give back the American dollars you've collected, you bum.
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the captain
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« Reply #219 on: November 08, 2014, 09:25:21 AM »

I don't have strong feelings about that, actually. Similar thing happened about 20 years ago with Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf/Chris Jackson (one of the best scorers I've ever seen). I don't think public displays of pomp, ceremony, allegiance, and nationalism necessarily ARE the "American way," in fact. (I don't even believe there is AN American way.) I do dislike Waiters for basketball reasons though. Breaks my heart to do it, as I'm a diehard 'Cuse fan.

On basketball, Rubio suffered what looked like a brutal ankle sprain in Orlando and took the wind out of the Wolves' sails. Speculation is that he might miss a few weeks, though the prognosis isn't public yet. Mo Williams and Zach LaVine, good luck.
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« Reply #220 on: November 08, 2014, 09:28:24 AM »

Ha. For what it's worth, Waiters is tweeting the whole story about him skipping the anthem for religious reason "is a damn lie," that people should confirm rumors before printing, and shouldn't believe everything they read. Much ado about nothing, it seems.
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« Reply #221 on: November 08, 2014, 01:30:42 PM »

On basketball, Rubio suffered what looked like a brutal ankle sprain in Orlando and took the wind out of the Wolves' sails. Speculation is that he might miss a few weeks, though the prognosis isn't public yet. Mo Williams and Zach LaVine, good luck.

I am hearing Rubio will be in a walking boot for 2 weeks and could miss 2 months. Ouch.
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« Reply #222 on: November 08, 2014, 04:36:11 PM »

Surprising word that LaVine will start in Miami over Mo Williams tonight. Interesting idea, perhaps made more possible because of the Heat's relatively mediocre PGs of Norris Cole, Mario Chalmers and Shabazz Napier.

Interesting note on the start: after this, LaVine will have started the same number of NBA games as he did college games. In his one year at UCLA, he started only once... (Part of my dislike for him around the draft was that he seemed more of a workout wonder than productive player. Tonight I hope I'm wrong.)
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« Reply #223 on: November 16, 2014, 08:20:02 AM »

Since losing Rubio to injury a week or so ago, things have been rough (to say the least). We've been rolling with Zach LaVine at the point, who is doing about as well as an athletically gifted but woefully underqualified replacement rookie teenage point guard can do... The best thing is, he's playing within the team concept as opposed to just running wild. But with Rubio, the Wolves were in every game no matter how overmatched. He defended, he passed, he ran, and he led. Without? Not so much.

Losing Thad Young, who is taking time off following the death of a family member, isn't helping.

And last night, Nikola Pekovic was limited to 12 minutes because of pain in his foot. That's a recurring issue that led the Wolves to ask him to take the summer off, to get newly created shoes specially designed for him, and to limit his minutes to basically splitting time with Gorgui Dieng. Here we are, 10 or so games in, with all that caution for naught: he's hurt regardless. I've said for a year or two, he might just become our Arvydas Sabonis. Sabonis was one of the greatest big men in the history of the game, but sadly by the time he got to Portland, injuries meant he had to play something like 20 minutes or less a night. He was wildly effective ... just not for long. Pek is nowhere near as good as Sabonis, but as a pure post scorer, he is one of the best in the game. I think we might be stuck with a 10 ppg, 18 mpg Pekovic.
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« Reply #224 on: November 16, 2014, 03:13:00 PM »

I remember hearing about Sabonis for years. You could tell that in his prime, he was a beast.

Hey, at least nobody on our teams are slapping themselves, like Lance Stephenson last night. That guy's a joke.
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