The Smiley Smile Message Board
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
If you like this message board, please help with the hosting costs!
681011
Posts in
27626
Topics by
4067
Members - Latest Member:
Dae Lims
May 15, 2024, 02:15:16 AM
The Smiley Smile Message Board
|
Non Smiley Smile Stuff
|
General Music Discussion
|
The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
[
7
]
8
Author
Topic: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread (Read 40557 times)
Buckethead
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 146
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #150 on:
March 29, 2018, 11:18:58 AM »
I am in full agreement, KDS. My annoyance is with people who confuse the music with the person. For example, I'm sure that Dennis Wilson had wonderful aspects to his personality, but his well-documented history with women in no way supports the persona indicated in much of his music.
Logged
KDS
Guest
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #151 on:
March 29, 2018, 11:39:49 AM »
Quote from: Buckethead on March 29, 2018, 11:18:58 AM
I am in full agreement, KDS. My annoyance is with people who confuse the music with the person. For example, I'm sure that Dennis Wilson had wonderful aspects to his personality, but his well-documented history with women in no way supports the persona indicated in much of his music.
Even Brian Wilson wasn't Father of the Year material, yet he's thought of as a saint.
Logged
Buckethead
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 146
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #152 on:
March 29, 2018, 02:31:48 PM »
True, KDS, by many people.
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2871
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #153 on:
March 29, 2018, 03:28:16 PM »
John Lennon's music I think reflected all aspects of his personality. His music wasn't all love and peace, some of it displayed a great deal of anger, laziness, and jealousy. It also articulated his humour. I really don't buy into the argument that his music was hypocritical. I think all of that was part of his personality and I think most of the people who actually knew him recognized that.
«
Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 03:46:21 PM by Chocolate Shake Man
»
Logged
Buckethead
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 146
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #154 on:
March 29, 2018, 04:03:02 PM »
Oh, I am not saying that John Lennon himself was hypocritical. My real issue, I think, is people in general deifying artists, putting them on a pedestal based on impressions gleaned (sometimes unevenly) from their work or public presentation of themselves. It's a tendency that human beings have, I suppose.
Logged
RangeRoverA1
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4336
I drink expired tea. wanna sip or spit?
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #155 on:
March 29, 2018, 05:03:39 PM »
John's solo material is definitely not to my taste. But it's got cool songs here & there, sure. I usually like cool songs, which got some coolness in arrangement, cool vocal tricks, bits, hooks et al.
I've got theory about such comments as "he sings it with much more soul", "I prefer his voice because it's soulful" etc. I gather that when people say it, they mean the other singers vocally fail due to lack of soul in their voices. Or, that they didn't try to bring soul to the table when they sang. But, & I didn't think about it before, isn't it just the fact everybody's blessed with this voice & that voice? I.e. there's singers who *do* bare their souls but it's just not in-your-face due to the timbre, the type of voice & factors alike? It sounds subdued but it could be they express it differently than, say, Dennis or John who people usually describe as "emotive" & "soulful". There's many colors & shapes of voices, so the bottom line would be it isn't that some singers lack soul, just the way they sing, they sing like that & to them, they may sing with soul, expressiveness but to us, it sounds like they don't convey what they sing "convincingly" (it's not the right word but the right word escapes me, excuse it).
2 cents.
Logged
Short notice: the cat you see to the left is the best. Not counting your indoor cat who might have habit sitting at your left side when you post at SmileySmile.
Who is Lucille Ball & Vivian Vance Duet Fan Club CEO? Btw, such Club exists?
Zany zealous Zeddie eats broccoli at brunch break but doesn't do's & don't's due to duties.
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2871
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #156 on:
March 29, 2018, 05:18:27 PM »
Quote from: Buckethead on March 29, 2018, 04:03:02 PM
Oh, I am not saying that John Lennon himself was hypocritical. My real issue, I think, is people in general deifying artists, putting them on a pedestal based on impressions gleaned (sometimes unevenly) from their work or public presentation of themselves. It's a tendency that human beings have, I suppose.
Yes, I always find it a bit odd that the Lennon that a lot people seem to remember is the one from a very brief period in his life: 1967-1971. Granted those 5 years were a significant part of his brief 40, but there were still so many facets of his ever-changing personality.
Logged
KDS
Guest
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #157 on:
March 30, 2018, 05:43:10 AM »
Quote from: RangeRoverA1 on March 29, 2018, 05:03:39 PM
John's solo material is definitely not to my taste. But it's got cool songs here & there, sure. I usually like cool songs, which got some coolness in arrangement, cool vocal tricks, bits, hooks et al.
I've got theory about such comments as "he sings it with much more soul", "I prefer his voice because it's soulful" etc. I gather that when people say it, they mean the other singers vocally fail due to lack of soul in their voices. Or, that they didn't try to bring soul to the table when they sang. But, & I didn't think about it before, isn't it just the fact everybody's blessed with this voice & that voice? I.e. there's singers who *do* bare their souls but it's just not in-your-face due to the timbre, the type of voice & factors alike? It sounds subdued but it could be they express it differently than, say, Dennis or John who people usually describe as "emotive" & "soulful". There's many colors & shapes of voices, so the bottom line would be it isn't that some singers lack soul, just the way they sing, they sing like that & to them, they may sing with soul, expressiveness but to us, it sounds like they don't convey what they sing "convincingly" (it's not the right word but the right word escapes me, excuse it).
2 cents.
I can't really speak for who I think is / isn't soulful. I think that "soulful" is often used by fans to describe singers who inflect / emote with their voices who might not necessarily be gifted singers like a Carl Wilson, Freddie Mercury, etc.
Of course, that's not always the case.
George Harrison had a more laid back vocal style than John or even Paul, but I don't think that means that he didn't believe what he was singing. It's just less of a raw style than John or Dennis Wilson.
Logged
Buckethead
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 146
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #158 on:
March 30, 2018, 09:36:23 AM »
Freddy Mercury was not a "gifted" singer? While I'd never considered Queen my cup of tea, it never occurred to me that this man
lacked anything in the vocal department. As far as Carl is concerned, he is my favorite Beach Boy in terms of vocals - love his voice and find his work "soulful," although in terms of whether he is gifted, I'm on the fence...
Logged
KDS
Guest
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #159 on:
March 30, 2018, 09:44:27 AM »
Quote from: Buckethead on March 30, 2018, 09:36:23 AM
Freddy Mercury was not a "gifted" singer? While I'd never considered Queen my cup of tea, it never occurred to me that this man
lacked anything in the vocal department. As far as Carl is concerned, he is my favorite Beach Boy in terms of vocals - love his voice and find his work "soulful," although in terms of whether he is gifted, I'm on the fence...
Re-read my post. I said that Carl Wilson and Freddie Mercury were gifted. For my money, Freddie was the most talented singer in rock history.
Logged
Buckethead
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 146
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #160 on:
March 30, 2018, 09:54:43 AM »
" I think that "soulful" is often used by fans to describe singers who inflect / emote with their voices who might not necessarily be gifted singers like a Carl Wilson, Freddie Mercury, etc. "
Sorry, I misinterpreted your post - I took it to mean that Mercury and Wilson given as examples of not gifted singers who inflect/emote well. We are of one mind, it appears!
Logged
KDS
Guest
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #161 on:
March 30, 2018, 10:02:20 AM »
Quote from: Buckethead on March 30, 2018, 09:54:43 AM
" I think that "soulful" is often used by fans to describe singers who inflect / emote with their voices who might not necessarily be gifted singers like a Carl Wilson, Freddie Mercury, etc. "
Sorry, I misinterpreted your post - I took it to mean that Mercury and Wilson given as examples of not gifted singers who inflect/emote well. We are of one mind, it appears!
Yes, and I'm not saying Lennon wasn't a really good singer.
But, I often see the word "soulful" used to describe singers like Dylan, Dennis Wilson, Layne Staley, Lou Reed, or Tom Waits, singers not nearly as good as Carl, Freddie, Paul Rodgers, Ronnie James Dio, or Glenn Hughes.
Logged
RangeRoverA1
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4336
I drink expired tea. wanna sip or spit?
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #162 on:
March 30, 2018, 04:39:51 PM »
Buckethead, can you address things I'd written in Reply #155? 2nd paragraph about voices & soulfulness differing wherein every singer. Read it & say if you agree/ disagree, can add few cents to discussion. I'd written them for everybody chiming in to discuss, not just KDS. Surprised you didn't say anything about it as you seem very interested in discussing various topics. I brought some subject to discuss for you as well. I'm curious about fresh new people to the board's perspective.
Logged
Short notice: the cat you see to the left is the best. Not counting your indoor cat who might have habit sitting at your left side when you post at SmileySmile.
Who is Lucille Ball & Vivian Vance Duet Fan Club CEO? Btw, such Club exists?
Zany zealous Zeddie eats broccoli at brunch break but doesn't do's & don't's due to duties.
Buckethead
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 146
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #163 on:
March 30, 2018, 06:58:45 PM »
Hello, RangeRover I!
I wasn't purposefully giving your comment short shrift so much as you brought up a topic on which I needed time to consider. What is "soulful" to me might not be to another - a very subjective thing. All I might offer to this discussion are a few thoughts:
I sense it in singing when the vocal nails the emotion a song is trying to project because the singer at least seems to be feeling it. I never really thought of it as a label reserved for less-than-excellent singers. I've heard people say that Barbra Streisand, for example, sings with soulfulness, and she is considered the cream of the crop in terms of female singers. Yet I somehow can't buy into it because she seems to be putting her emotional energy into technical perfection and vocal gymnastics. The Band's Richard Manuel, on the other hand, while not what one would call a singer's singer, nails it for me every time: "I shall Be Released." And
Rick Danko, on "It Makes No Difference" makes me buy what he's selling every time.
Logged
Buckethead
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 146
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #164 on:
March 30, 2018, 07:04:37 PM »
Since we're on a John Lennon Thread, I'll add that it was George, not John et.al., whom I would consider the soulful singer of the Beatles. IMO, none of them were really great singers, but it was George's singing that reached down, yes, into my soul.
Logged
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 1847
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #165 on:
March 31, 2018, 06:01:33 PM »
John hands down for me. George wrote some nice tunes but I never thought much of him as a singer
Logged
pixletwin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4930
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #166 on:
March 31, 2018, 06:03:46 PM »
Anyone here ever listened to the single which John father, Alfred, released in the mid 60’s? It’s interesting, to say the least.
Logged
Buckethead
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 146
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #167 on:
March 31, 2018, 07:15:40 PM »
Gosh, I have now! Here it is. What do we think? Competition for Murry?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgbVRQOnQk8
And her's the B side...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRlDUeVcTYs
Logged
pixletwin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4930
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #168 on:
April 04, 2018, 11:48:25 AM »
Quote from: Buckethead on March 31, 2018, 07:15:40 PM
Gosh, I have now! Here it is. What do we think? Competition for Murry?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgbVRQOnQk8
And her's the B side...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRlDUeVcTYs
I had never heard the second link. Thanks for digging that up. Nicely done.
Logged
JK
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 6053
Maybe I put too much faith in atmosphere
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #169 on:
April 20, 2018, 03:56:17 AM »
Not many songs make me cry. Three of them are by Mr Lennon.
I first heard "Beautiful Boy" the day after John was murdered and my son was Sean's age. I can't listen to that song anymore.
"#9 Dream" is one of those strange songs which mess with your head (and eyes) without one really knowing why. Perhaps in this case it's because it feels like a glimpse into another world (or heaven).
"Woman" is one of the greatest and most moving love songs ever recorded. But not a song for every occasion.
Logged
"Ik bun moar een eenvoudige boerenlul en doar schoam ik mien niet veur" (Normaal, 1978)
You're Grass and I'm a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
the Carbon Freeze | Eclectic Essays & Art
Summer_Days
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 734
...and your dream comes true.
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #170 on:
April 20, 2018, 12:05:43 PM »
Of all popular music, my two favorite visionaries are Brian Wilson and John Lennon. Plus The Beach Boys and The Beatles are (in that order) my two very favorite bands.
While there are those who abstain and love each member equally, most of us have a favorite member of The Beatles. John is mine. He is one of the artists that is on my personal Mount Olympus of songwriters. Most of my top 10 favorite Beatles songs were his.
It's popular today to either place John high on a pedestal or say that he was a complete asshole. Though I understand the reasoning for both views, the reality is somewhere in the middle, which is where I'd like to be. Does he deserve all his massive praise? I don't know about all of it, it is seriously massive, but he deserves heaps of it. Does he deserve tons of criticism for the way he went through life? Some criticism, sure. He did do some pretty bad things, though later in life he spoke about how he greatly regretted his actions and tried to be better. His life was a journey of constant pain and triumph and everything in between. I judge much of John, not all of him, by his music and I think there we can largely agree that he wrote some astonishing, timeless, unforgettably beautiful songs.
My three favorite Beatles songs are his: 'Strawberry Fields Forever', 'If I Fell' and 'In My Life'. My three favorite solo John songs are: 'Jealous Guy', 'Real Love' and 'Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)', all of these songs so beautiful, only Brian's best, most emotional music like Pet Sounds can surpass it in my heart.
John is always with me. When my mother died almost 7 years ago, I listened to 'Julia' and 'My Mummy's Dead' expecting to cry but instead my heart was lifted (I think if I listened to the heart wrenching 'Mother' I would've drowned in my tears). He influences what I write (poetry and songs without music since I don't play an instrument yet.....lyrics really). I was listening to a lot of John's more searching songs like 'Imagine' when I, about 18 years ago, proclaimed myself an atheist after a long time of just being an apathetic agnostic. While I couldn't say whether he was an atheist or what, he was definitely leery of religion (which you could just chock up to his dislike of authority) and it was good to hear somebody whose music I respected seemed to feel the same as me. I was pretty alone with my atheism.
John Lennon is a complex figure and that seeped into his songwriting. Aside from Brian, there's nobody out there like him when it comes to truly great music.
Sorry for rattling on so long.
«
Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 12:09:05 PM by Summer_Days
»
Logged
Wouldn't it be nice if we were older, then we wouldn't have to wait so long
And wouldn't it be nice to live together, in the kind of world where we belong?
http://wildsmiley.weebly.com
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2871
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #171 on:
April 20, 2018, 12:28:07 PM »
Well said.
The older I get, the more I realize that the mark of a good person is someone who acknowledges their mistakes and tries their hardest to be better. I think John was a great example of someone like that.
Logged
pixletwin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4930
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #172 on:
April 21, 2018, 05:39:48 PM »
Yep. Well said.
John was a complex human being. His life wasn't a movie script. He was at times and angel and at time the devil incarnate. I could say the same about myself, if I am honest. Many of you could as well, I suspect.
"You wanna save humanity, but it's people that you just can't stand."
That is John in a nutshell.
Logged
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 761
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #173 on:
April 22, 2018, 08:07:29 AM »
Quote from: pixletwin on April 21, 2018, 05:39:48 PM
"You wanna save humanity, but it's people that you just can't stand."
That is John in a nutshell.
Yeah, agreed. I've always loved the introspective lyrics of "I Don't Wanna Face It". That line being my favorite. As an aside, I think it's cool that as the M&H version fades, John ad-libs the lyrics from his "Mirror Mirror" demo.
Logged
Every wave is new until it breaks.
RangeRoverA1
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4336
I drink expired tea. wanna sip or spit?
Re: The John Lennon Peace, Love, and Appreciation Thread
«
Reply #174 on:
May 27, 2018, 03:38:32 PM »
Quote from: Ian on March 31, 2018, 06:01:33 PM
John hands down for me.
Disagree.
Logged
Short notice: the cat you see to the left is the best. Not counting your indoor cat who might have habit sitting at your left side when you post at SmileySmile.
Who is Lucille Ball & Vivian Vance Duet Fan Club CEO? Btw, such Club exists?
Zany zealous Zeddie eats broccoli at brunch break but doesn't do's & don't's due to duties.
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
[
7
]
8
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> BRIAN WILSON Q & A
=> Welcome to the Smiley Smile board
=> General On Topic Discussions
===> Ask The Honored Guests
===> Smiley Smile Reference Threads
=> Smile Sessions Box Set (2011)
=> The Beach Boys Media
=> Concert Reviews
=> Album, Book and Video Reviews And Discussions
===> 1960's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1970's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1980's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1990's Beach Boys Albums
===> 21st Century Beach Boys Albums
===> Brian Wilson Solo Albums
===> Other Solo Albums
===> Produced by or otherwise related to
===> Tribute Albums
===> DVDs and Videos
===> Book Reviews
===> 'Rank the Tracks'
===> Polls
-----------------------------
Non Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> General Music Discussion
=> General Entertainment Thread
=> Smiley Smilers Who Make Music
=> The Sandbox
Powered by SMF 1.1.21
|
SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.451 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi
design by
Bloc
Loading...