4th of July is one HELL of a song.

[bluesno1fann]

I'ts obvious that the period Dennis was loved in this board is over. 

No chance of that ever happening here. Too many hardcore Dennis Wilson fans, including the author of a book about him that resides on these premises. In spite of Dennis' shortcomings on a personal level, his wonderful music will always prevail. The consensus here is that he's the second most talented Beach Boy. Forever and ever, amen.

That's what I thought... Until the Dennis Wilson Appreciation thread where everyone started saying Mike was the second-most talented to Brian...

[bluesno1fann]

And I don't mean to necessarily compare the two, it's just that Brian is perhaps the closest example I can think of to a true musical genius of his and our time*. I see the word applied a lot to musicians, and I sort of use to buy into it, but I just don't believe it anymore. John Lennon, Roger Waters, Pete Townshend... these guys just are not geniuses.

Isn't there such a thing as lyrical genius?

[alf wiedersehen]

I'ts obvious that the period Dennis was loved in this board is over. 

No chance of that ever happening here. Too many hardcore Dennis Wilson fans, including the author of a book about him that resides on these premises. In spite of Dennis' shortcomings on a personal level, his wonderful music will always prevail. The consensus here is that he's the second most talented Beach Boy. Forever and ever, amen.

That's what I thought... Until the Dennis Wilson Appreciation thread where everyone started saying Mike was the second-most talented to Brian...

So what if people say that? Does that somehow make Dennis worse? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Opinions, man...

[alf wiedersehen]

And I don't mean to necessarily compare the two, it's just that Brian is perhaps the closest example I can think of to a true musical genius of his and our time*. I see the word applied a lot to musicians, and I sort of use to buy into it, but I just don't believe it anymore. John Lennon, Roger Waters, Pete Townshend... these guys just are not geniuses.

Isn't there such a thing as lyrical genius?

Yes - and its name is Bob Dylan.

[bluesno1fann]

I'ts obvious that the period Dennis was loved in this board is over. 

No chance of that ever happening here. Too many hardcore Dennis Wilson fans, including the author of a book about him that resides on these premises. In spite of Dennis' shortcomings on a personal level, his wonderful music will always prevail. The consensus here is that he's the second most talented Beach Boy. Forever and ever, amen.

That's what I thought... Until the Dennis Wilson Appreciation thread where everyone started saying Mike was the second-most talented to Brian...

So what if people say that? Does that somehow make Dennis worse? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Opinions, man...

I was just saying that it doesn't seem like that it's the general consensus that Dennis is the second-most talented Beach Boy, especially after that thread...

[alf wiedersehen]

I'ts obvious that the period Dennis was loved in this board is over. 

No chance of that ever happening here. Too many hardcore Dennis Wilson fans, including the author of a book about him that resides on these premises. In spite of Dennis' shortcomings on a personal level, his wonderful music will always prevail. The consensus here is that he's the second most talented Beach Boy. Forever and ever, amen.

That's what I thought... Until the Dennis Wilson Appreciation thread where everyone started saying Mike was the second-most talented to Brian...

So what if people say that? Does that somehow make Dennis worse? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Opinions, man...

I was just saying that it doesn't seem like that it's the general consensus that Dennis is the second-most talented Beach Boy, especially after that thread...

The general consensus is irrelevant when it come to music. It's what you yourself think that matters.

[retrokid67]

why can't people express their admiration for Dennis without others commenting "he's no Brian, or he's no Dylan"?  he was his own person and in recent years after being labeled as the "no talent clubber" for so long, people are starting to realize that when it comes to having the best songwriting talent (or just being a "genius") he was the second runner up in that band.  What's so bad about acknowledging that?  

[Mike's Beard]

 I don't understand why some hardcore Dennis fans can't accept that for many of us it's enough just to enjoy the man's talents, they have to insist that he's a genius on Brian's level and the band's second best songwriter etc. and to disagree is to put him down. Frankly I can't decide who's the best songwriter in the band after Brian - it's a blur for me, their collected efforts from the first half of the 70s are staggeringly good.

why can't people express their admiration for Dennis without others commenting "he's no Brian, or he's no Dylan"? 

When people claim he was a genius too they are instantly inviting a comparison to Brian.

[alf wiedersehen]

why can't people express their admiration for Dennis without others commenting "he's no Brian, or he's no Dylan"?  he was his own person and in recent years after being labeled as the "no talent clubber" for so long, people are starting to realize that when it comes to having the best songwriting talent (or just being a "genius") he was the second runner up in that band.  What's so bad about acknowledging that? 

What's so bad about feeling differently than you do?
If you can express your feelings, why can't I?

[Ed Roach]

Anything relating to genius art is obviously subjective territory, but I do have the opinion that there are genius elements in the Beach Boys music with Brian being responsible for the vast majority of them. Inventiveness and originality are the keys, but it goes deeper, with Pet Sounds and Smile you are talking about tapping into spiritual levels of creativity...depth of art that not only relies on the creative mind, but also the heart and soul, or whatever is the human conduit to a spiritual realm. This takes the music to a level beyond great music, and towards something closer to human connection and love. I think this is where the real genius exists in Brian's music, and I think it is what Daryl Dragon was trying to explain about Dennis' ability as well. These are not trained or highly educated musicians, but they have an innate ability to tap into something that is truly genuine and moving. And it can be subtle, just in the way they seek, and frame chords, inversions, the choice of bass notes, the way they melt the melody into the transitions as if they are obviously inherent to the structure, like fingers in a glove. These are the moments that make the hair on your neck stand up, or goosebumps, or even tears form just by listening. Can you imagine having the gift to do that, and that gift is completely organic? It's gotta be genius on some level, spiritual genius at minimum.

I really hate it when something has to be compared to something else to argue whether it's good or great. I would defer to the people who watched these guys at their craft, in the creative mode, how they were conduits to an unexplainable realm and how elements beyond explanation flowed from them. Minds were blown by Brian, and Dennis...and the other guys as well at various points in their creative life. Call it genius, call it God, call it love...whatever it is it never stops moving those who hear it and connect with it. The Wilsons gave it to us, and we're better off for experiencing it. Maybe Beach Boys music is what immortality sounds like.

God, not that it surprises me, but so well said, my man!

[retrokid67]

why can't people express their admiration for Dennis without others commenting "he's no Brian, or he's no Dylan"?  he was his own person and in recent years after being labeled as the "no talent clubber" for so long, people are starting to realize that when it comes to having the best songwriting talent (or just being a "genius") he was the second runner up in that band.  What's so bad about acknowledging that? 

What's so bad about feeling differently than you do?
If you can express your feelings, why can't I?

nothing.  Nothing at all.  but you always make it seem like we're the one's who are wrong when we express ours.  everytime there's a dennis thread you're always arguing with one of us.  I don't mind the different opinions (I actually learn from them and have looked at the opposing side) but you don't try to see our side unless Jon Stebbins makes a post...

[bluesno1fann]

why can't people express their admiration for Dennis without others commenting "he's no Brian, or he's no Dylan"?  he was his own person and in recent years after being labeled as the "no talent clubber" for so long, people are starting to realize that when it comes to having the best songwriting talent (or just being a "genius") he was the second runner up in that band.  What's so bad about acknowledging that? 

What's so bad about feeling differently than you do?
If you can express your feelings, why can't I?

nothing.  Nothing at all.  but you always make it seem like we're the one's who are wrong when we express ours.  everytime there's a dennis thread you're always arguing with one of us.  I don't mind the different opinions (I actually learn from them and have looked at the opposing side) but you don't try to see our side unless Jon Stebbins makes a post...

Pretty much this.

[SMiLE Brian]

Overrating Dennis to the point of obsession will not win people over to "team Denny"

[retrokid67]

Overrating Dennis to the point of obsession will not win people over to "team Denny"

there is no "team Denny"

[alf wiedersehen]

you always make it seem like we're the one's who are wrong when we express ours.  everytime there's a dennis thread you're always arguing with one of us.

My opinion disagrees with your opinion. Your opinion disagrees with my opinion. It takes two (or more...) to make an argument.

you don't try to see our side unless Jon Stebbins makes a post...

I know what your side is - you love and appreciate Dennis, and you want more people to feel the way you do.
Perhaps you could say Jon is a bit more articulate, but he hasn't caused any change in my opinions.

[Jon Stebbins]

Anything relating to genius art is obviously subjective territory, but I do have the opinion that there are genius elements in the Beach Boys music with Brian being responsible for the vast majority of them. Inventiveness and originality are the keys, but it goes deeper, with Pet Sounds and Smile you are talking about tapping into spiritual levels of creativity...depth of art that not only relies on the creative mind, but also the heart and soul, or whatever is the human conduit to a spiritual realm. This takes the music to a level beyond great music, and towards something closer to human connection and love. I think this is where the real genius exists in Brian's music, and I think it is what Daryl Dragon was trying to explain about Dennis' ability as well. These are not trained or highly educated musicians, but they have an innate ability to tap into something that is truly genuine and moving. And it can be subtle, just in the way they seek, and frame chords, inversions, the choice of bass notes, the way they melt the melody into the transitions as if they are obviously inherent to the structure, like fingers in a glove. These are the moments that make the hair on your neck stand up, or goosebumps, or even tears form just by listening. Can you imagine having the gift to do that, and that gift is completely organic? It's gotta be genius on some level, spiritual genius at minimum.

I really hate it when something has to be compared to something else to argue whether it's good or great. I would defer to the people who watched these guys at their craft, in the creative mode, how they were conduits to an unexplainable realm and how elements beyond explanation flowed from them. Minds were blown by Brian, and Dennis...and the other guys as well at various points in their creative life. Call it genius, call it God, call it love...whatever it is it never stops moving those who hear it and connect with it. The Wilsons gave it to us, and we're better off for experiencing it. Maybe Beach Boys music is what immortality sounds like.

God, not that it surprises me, but so well said, my man!

Thanks Ed. You would know as well as anybody about what I'm getting at. You were there.

[lostbeachboy]

They each were great in there own way. Lets leave it at that.


Does anybody think its f***ed up that BRIAN received the Kennedy center honor and NOT The Beach Boys...?

Pete Townshend & Roger Daltrey received it. So did Robert Plant, Jimmy Page & John Paul Jones.
Think about it.

[retrokid67]

you always make it seem like we're the one's who are wrong when we express ours.  everytime there's a dennis thread you're always arguing with one of us.

My opinion disagrees with your opinion. Your opinion disagrees with my opinion. It takes two (or more...) to make an argument.

you don't try to see our side unless Jon Stebbins makes a post...

I know what your side is - you love and appreciate Dennis, and you want more people to feel the way you do.
Perhaps you could say Jon is a bit more articulate, but he hasn't caused any change in my opinions.

my side is--people don't have to love everything Dennis ever wrote, but attacking him with whatever Brian has done is pointless because 1. Brian and Dennis had two different styles.  2. Dennis is gone now and his talent never reached it's full potential thanks to battling personal demons and insecurity due to the lack of support from the band at the time.  Everyone knew Brian had a major talent but Dennis had to prove himself to everyone

[bluesno1fann]

Overrating Dennis to the point of obsession will not win people over to "team Denny"

there is no "team Denny"

"Team Denny" doesn't exist, it's a figment of SMiLE Brian's imagination.
And he has some nerve in making that comment. He does the exact same thing for Brian (To the point of obsession of course), it's not funny. And "Overrating" and "Dennis" DO NOT go together at all!

[alf wiedersehen]

"Overrating" and "Dennis" DO NOT go together at all!

They sure do!
I'm just gonna go away for a while now...

[retrokid67]

Overrating Dennis to the point of obsession will not win people over to "team Denny"

there is no "team Denny"

"Team Denny" doesn't exist, it's a figment of SMiLE Brian's imagination.
And he has some nerve in making that comment. He does the exact same thing for Brian (To the point of obsession of course), it's not funny. And "Overrating" and "Dennis" DO NOT go together at all!

even down to his username I guess in his world that would be  "obsession" too (only not in his case of course)  

[retrokid67]

"Overrating" and "Dennis" DO NOT go together at all!

They sure do!
I'm just gonna go away or a while now...

change that to "Underrating" and you're right-- "They sure do!"

[SMiLE Brian]

Why are you guys getting so defensive, I call it as I hear it. BW wrote whole albums of classics, while DW made the best BBs album never made (POB)

[bluesno1fann]

"Overrating" and "Dennis" DO NOT go together at all!

They sure do!
I'm just gonna go away or a while now...

change that to "Underrating" and you're right-- "They sure do!"

Exactly. That comment was beyond ridiculous. I mean, come on! A lot of people still underrate Dennis around here, it's not like anyone's saying he's better than Brian!

[Mike's Beard]

my side is--people don't have to love everything Dennis ever wrote, but attacking him with whatever Brian has done is pointless because 1. Brian and Dennis had two different styles.

But what keeps cropping up in your arguements is you claim Dennis is a genius just like Brian, then when people disagree with that statement you say it's unfair to compare Dennis to Brian - you can't have it both ways.

  2. Dennis is gone now and his talent never reached it's full potential thanks to battling personal demons and insecurity due to the lack of support from the band at the time.  

Again I'd disagree and say he reached his full potential with POB, no way was he ever going to better that.