4th of July is one HELL of a song.

[RioGrande]

Carl? "Whiny"?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Now I can't get "4th Of July" out of my head!  

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had. There's that beautiful quality in his music that just gets to you and makes you feel. And, Dennis spread his work around like Brian. He especially liked Carl's voice:

"All I Want To Do" - Mike lead vocal
"4th Of July" - Carl lead vocal
"Steamboat" - Carl Lead vocal
"Only With You" - Carl Lead vocal
"Baby Blue" - Carl & Dennis lead vocal

Here's another nice YouTube video of "4th Of July": http://youtu.be/SLgV9jm4IXY

[lostbeachboy]

Dennis was one in a million.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[alf wiedersehen]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

[retrokid67]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

[alf wiedersehen]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

Then I disagree with Brian, too.
Not everyone has to be a genius.

[bluesno1fann]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had. There's that beautiful quality in his music that just gets to you and makes you feel.

Completely agreed. So glad this is being largely recognized in the last few years!

[bluesno1fann]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

Wow, he did? That's awesome!

[Mike's Beard]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

Then I disagree with Brian, too.
Not everyone has to be a genius.

Careful Bubbly, I've been flamed in the past for daring to suggest that talented as he was, Dennis was no genius.

[retrokid67]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

Then I disagree with Brian, too.
Not everyone has to be a genius.

Careful Bubbly, I've been flamed in the past for daring to suggest that talented as he was, Dennis was no genius.

sometimes people just want to sit and listen to a nice simple song (like "Be Still" for instance instead of "Surfs Up").  everything doesn't have to be about "complexity".  for the people who don't have any music background at all probably won't think of a song along those lines.  if it makes them feel good they'll be satisfied.  and if there's one thing Dennis is known for it's making people feel what he was trying to say in his music.

[alf wiedersehen]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

Then I disagree with Brian, too.
Not everyone has to be a genius.

Careful Bubbly, I've been flamed in the past for daring to suggest that talented as he was, Dennis was no genius.

sometimes people just want to sit and listen to a nice simple song (like "Be Still" for instance instead of "Surfs Up").  everything doesn't have to be about "complexity".  for the people who don't have any music background at all probably won't think of a song along those lines.  if it makes them feel good they'll be satisfied.  and if there's one thing Dennis is known for it's making people feel what he was trying to say in his music.

What you've said doesn't have anything to do with him being a genius.

[bluesno1fann]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

Then I disagree with Brian, too.
Not everyone has to be a genius.

Careful Bubbly, I've been flamed in the past for daring to suggest that talented as he was, Dennis was no genius.

sometimes people just want to sit and listen to a nice simple song (like "Be Still" for instance instead of "Surfs Up").  everything doesn't have to be about "complexity".  for the people who don't have any music background at all probably won't think of a song along those lines.  if it makes them feel good they'll be satisfied.  and if there's one thing Dennis is known for it's making people feel what he was trying to say in his music.

Agreed. And I find it ludicrous to suggest that the person who created POB and the highlights of 20/20, Sunflower and L.A. Light Album (okay, even I admit his work on CATP isn't exactly his best), as well as WIBNTLA isn't a genius!

[SMiLE Brian]

DW was good, but no genius. BW carried a whole band to success and glory from 1961-1967. Plus fleeting glimses from then on in various years.

[Alan Smith]

Dennis was GREAT, I am a massive fan, but agree not a genius from a musical perspective - I think his talent and unique angle/appeal came from his ability to convey a ton of emotion and power in his songs/art - fuckin' amazing stuff, but I don't think Dennis broke new ground in the same way Brian did.

Nothing to fight over tho' - pretty lucky to have had both of them affect our musical lives.

[retrokid67]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

Then I disagree with Brian, too.
Not everyone has to be a genius.

Careful Bubbly, I've been flamed in the past for daring to suggest that talented as he was, Dennis was no genius.

sometimes people just want to sit and listen to a nice simple song (like "Be Still" for instance instead of "Surfs Up").  everything doesn't have to be about "complexity".  for the people who don't have any music background at all probably won't think of a song along those lines.  if it makes them feel good they'll be satisfied.  and if there's one thing Dennis is known for it's making people feel what he was trying to say in his music.

What you've said doesn't have anything to do with him being a genius.

Exactly. I said that Brian (being the genius that he is) said that his brother was a genius in his own right.  he didn't have to say that but he did.  dennis wasn't on the same level as Brian but he was the closest one in the band to that.  and they both had two different styles.  I couldn't see Brian making an album like POB.  and just imagine what Dennis could've done if he was still alive today and had been able to battle his demons and come through the way Brian has.

[Mendota Heights]

Judd is a genius.

[SMiLE Brian]

Agreed!

[alf wiedersehen]

I find it ludicrous to suggest that the person who created POB and the highlights of 20/20, Sunflower and L.A. Light Album (okay, even I admit his work on CATP isn't exactly his best), as well as WIBNTLA isn't a genius!

Well, I would say that Brian created what are easily the highlights of those albums you mention.

Exactly. I said that Brian (being the genius that he is) said that his brother was a genius in his own right.  he didn't have to say that but he did.  dennis wasn't on the same level as Brian but he was the closest one in the band to that.  and they both had two different styles.  I couldn't see Brian making an album like POB.  and just imagine what Dennis could've done if he was still alive today and had been able to battle his demons and come through the way Brian has.

Once again, I will have to disagree with Brian.

Dennis never composed anything like "I Get Around" or "Wouldn't It Be Nice". Brian made grand-scale pop symphonies in 2 and half minutes that were musically and vocally complex, and yet they were perfectly listenable and were eaten up by a large audience. The complexity of his songs is sort of hidden and to show off these complexities is never the point of his songs. On the surface, it's simply great music. Yet when you look deeper, there's so much intelligence and inspiration to appreciate. The layers of intricacies is unlike any other pop/rock song-writer.

Dennis was fine - even talented - but he's not a genius. He made some good songs, some great songs, and some excellent songs, and that's all there is to it. Emotional resonance has nothing to do with whether or not he was a genius.

Perhaps we'll have to disagree on what constitutes a genius.

everything doesn't have to be about "complexity".  for the people who don't have any music background at all probably won't think of a song along those lines.

How can someone without any background/understanding of music actually know who is a musical genius?

[bluesno1fann]

Was Dennis Wilson a genius? He definitely had "it". He had the "it" that Brian had.

I disagree.

Also, "genius" is so overused to the point that it hardly means anything anymore when it comes to music. They're much farther and fewer between than we make it seem. I believe Brian is a musical genius, and his work reflects that. The complexity, ingenuity, inventiveness - I think it all points to a superior adeptness in music.

However, I certainly wouldn't classify Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Andy Partridge, Neil Young, Ray Davies, Harry Nilsson, Tom Waits or people like that as geniuses.
Talented, yes. Geniuses, no.

Brian himself said that Dennis was a genius in his own right

Then I disagree with Brian, too.
Not everyone has to be a genius.

Careful Bubbly, I've been flamed in the past for daring to suggest that talented as he was, Dennis was no genius.

sometimes people just want to sit and listen to a nice simple song (like "Be Still" for instance instead of "Surfs Up").  everything doesn't have to be about "complexity".  for the people who don't have any music background at all probably won't think of a song along those lines.  if it makes them feel good they'll be satisfied.  and if there's one thing Dennis is known for it's making people feel what he was trying to say in his music.

What you've said doesn't have anything to do with him being a genius.

Exactly. I said that Brian (being the genius that he is) said that his brother was a genius in his own right.  he didn't have to say that but he did.  dennis wasn't on the same level as Brian but he was the closest one in the band to that.  and they both had two different styles.  I couldn't see Brian making an album like POB.  and just imagine what Dennis could've done if he was still alive today and had been able to battle his demons and come through the way Brian has.

Perhaps if Dennis didn't drown, overcame his demons, completed and released Bambu and continued making excellent music, then the idea that Dennis is a genius would be more widely accepted...

[SMiLE Brian]

But he wasn't no matter what he did. BW's production of hits in his prime is unmatched by anybody.

[bluesno1fann]

Dennis never composed anything like "I Get Around" or "Wouldn't It Be Nice".

Umm... there's I'm Going Your Way and Slip On Through, which both beat I Get Around IMO.

And as for WIBN, there's WIBNTLA, and River Song, and Thoughts Of You, and etc.

I can understand if a lot of people disagree, but there are people who would agree.

[SMiLE Brian]

Dennis never composed anything like "I Get Around" or "Wouldn't It Be Nice".

Umm... there's I'm Going Your Way and Slip On Through, which both beat I Get Around IMO.



 

no

[bluesno1fann]

Dennis never composed anything like "I Get Around" or "Wouldn't It Be Nice".

Umm... there's I'm Going Your Way and Slip On Through, which both beat I Get Around IMO.



 

no

And that is your opinion...

[retrokid67]

Some people are just born with a gift--that's Brian, we all know that.  Denny's songwriting and music developed over time getting better and better almost getting to the point of reaching Brian's level.  Brian had a lot of people who backed him up and supported everything he did, meanwhile dennis didn't always get that same support (especially since his stuff wasn't "commercial enough") so he didn't have the confidence.

and to answer your question Bubbly Waves, someone who doesn't have a musical background probably will not be concerned whether or not the artist they're listening to is a genius or not. if the song makes them feel good, they'll be satisfied.   like I said Dennis had a way of making the listener feel what he was singing about, sometimes even more so than Brian did  .  sorry.