O.k. 'splain this to me: What keeps Al from playing with Mike whenever he wants?

[RioGrande]

The guys have already made not thousands, but millions of people happy. They are past normal retirement age, and have the right to spend their last years as they please. Give them a break...

[RioGrande]

Though I agree with many of the points made in this thread, the tone is a bit overdramatic... as usual here.

The old geezers (said with affection, not disrespect) have given, and give, us much more than what could be reasonably expected. And yes, though I am a Brianista I include Mike in this.  

M & B keep on carrying the music, and the Beach Boys brand, around, and by all accounts put up a good rocking show. Brian has created his own brand by now, surely less commercial but getting artistic recognition and prestige.

We fans had not only a reunion in 2012, but it was longer and better than anybody could have thought, with a great tour and a very good new album. Ok, it ended in a PR mess and some bad feelings, but we are talking the Beach Boys here, what did you expect, sincerely?

As I said, the only thing I don't like is Al always being the odd man out. He deserves much better. But if he can live with it, so can I.

Oh, I agree. These guys don't own me anything. I do think they owe it to themselves to at least try to end well.

This is a good point, but it's up to them. I think they even tried, only it didn't work.

[KittyKat]

I don't think some folks realize that playing a winery is not akin to playing a pub. But whatever. Years ago, there were no wineries that offered concerts. Wineries are upscale gigs, not downscale ones. There are a lot of people who love wine tasting and wineries and those types of people tend to have more money than the average joe. Winery tickets with dinner can run close to $300 per seat. It's marketing music to the top income earners, similar to the way that VIP packages at regular concert venues can cost hundreds of dollars. You have to buy dinner packages to get seated near the front.  Just like people are criticizing Mike and Bruce for playing private parties, but Brian has also played private gigs. They simply don't get publicized by Brian the way Mike and Bruce don't make a secret of it. For millionaires, hiring Brian Wilson or the Beach Boys or whoever for your spouse's birthday party or corporate event is par for the course. As long as people can pay the concert fee, they can get whoever they want.  The main way to make money now in music is to play live, and acts will take it however they can get it, be they the Beach Boys or Brian Wilson.

[RioGrande]

I don't think some folks realize that playing a winery is not akin to playing a pub.

Some folks, maybe. I realise perfectly the difference: wineries are for classy intellectuals who drink expensive wine, and pubs are for (SARCASM ALERT) uncouth working class people who drink cheap beer. My point being that there should be no shame in playing either of them. Sorry for trying to agree with you, it turned out I was wrong.

[Smilin Ed H]

Didn't Brian and Al play a gig at Mountain Winery in 2007 - and if I recall, it wasn't a secret?

[HeyJude]

Didn't Brian and Al play a gig at Mountain Winery in 2007 - and if I recall, it wasn't a secret?

Brian has played “The Mountain Winery” in Saratoga, CA several times: In 2000, 2007 with Al, and at least one other time after that.

The 2007 gig wasn’t a secret really. Al simply was not advertised or billed. As I mentioned in another post on one of these threads, I think Al simply tagged along for one more gig because it was close enough to Monterey, where he had played (and had been advertised) with Brian two days prior.

There was also a bit of a “tell” about Al’s participation, because I believe the venue put out a schedule for their season a few weeks/months in advance which listed something like “Al Jardine’s Endless Summer Band” as an *opening act* for Brian. Not sure if that was ever the actual plan, but the ticket simply simply said “Brian Wilson”, and Al just happened to show up.

[HeyJude]

The guys have already made not thousands, but millions of people happy. They are past normal retirement age, and have the right to spend their last years as they please. Give them a break...

But it’s easy to just passively say that about them or anybody else. When the discussion partly hinges on those members disagreeing about how/when/why they are spending that time and in what fashion they are doing it, it’s a bit more difficult to just say “they should be able to do whatever they want.” If that’s the attitude, that’s fine, but that kind of precludes even caring about most of the discussion on this topic. 

[HeyJude]

I should also add that this whole bit about wineries I think is predicated on maybe not fully understanding what “playing a winery” consists of. Most of these “wineries” are not simply functioning wineries where they set up a stage and some folding chairs like they do at a street fair or something. They are fully-functioning concert venues, with the “winery” aspect sometimes secondary (I wouldn't be surprised if, in some cases, there is not an actual functioning winery anymore on or near the grounds where the concert venue is located). They are operated, booked, etc. as concert venues.

If anything, any criticism toward playing these venues should be opposite of the “these venues are beneath them”, and would be more along the lines of these being overly-upscale shows with often excessively priced tickets, often partly catering to wealthy season ticket holders who attend the shows kind of like “whales” get comped tickets for casino shows.

I’m getting older and I’m cranky around concert crowds, so I don’t particularly enjoy the drunk yahoos at shows where they simply had to pay $5 to get into the fair, nor do I enjoy the drunk rich crowd at the winery who pay more attention to their plastic “glass” of wine and talk through the show rather than pay attention to the music.  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I don't think some folks realize that playing a winery is not akin to playing a pub. But whatever. Years ago, there were no wineries that offered concerts. Wineries are upscale gigs, not downscale ones. There are a lot of people who love wine tasting and wineries and those types of people tend to have more money than the average joe. Winery tickets with dinner can run close to $300 per seat. It's marketing music to the top income earners, similar to the way that VIP packages at regular concert venues can cost hundreds of dollars. You have to buy dinner packages to get seated near the front.  Just like people are criticizing Mike and Bruce for playing private parties, but Brian has also played private gigs. They simply don't get publicized by Brian the way Mike and Bruce don't make a secret of it. For millionaires, hiring Brian Wilson or the Beach Boys or whoever for your spouse's birthday party or corporate event is par for the course. As long as people can pay the concert fee, they can get whoever they want.  The main way to make money now in music is to play live, and acts will take it however they can get it, be they the Beach Boys or Brian Wilson.

in complete agreement,  especially in regards to the last part

[SurfRiderHawaii]

http://www.mountainwinery.com/concerts

Steely Dan iis  playing there.

There are wineries and then there are Wineries.  The Mountain is a beautiful venue. 

Same with casinos.  Some are classy with great concert rooms. Some Zoos have beautuful concert venues.

[Wirestone]

Hell, Elton John has played private gigs. Huge names do it.

[Robbie Mac]

Hell, Elton John has played private gigs. Huge names do it.

indeed.

http://weird-news.yoexpert.com/celebrity-mash-up-12071/would-you-like-paul-mccartney-playing-music-at-you-3311.html

Playing casinos and Vegas doesn't have the same stigma it once did 25 + years ago. Back then, your career was dead if you played Vegas. Nowadays, your career is over if you don't.

[Foster's Freeze]

Winery!



I'm kidding!  I realize since wince made a comeback that many of the high end places have very nice entertainment facilities, often they are nicer upgrades from older amphitheaters and that's cool.  I'll lay off the winery references but I still think that Magic Mike is a hypocrite when he worries about watering down the brand because he will not say no to playing anywhere, anytime.  He and his ensemble played a venue here in town for free a number of years ago at a dive that was built illegally in the flood plain and thank goodness the place finally flooded out and closed last year.  Low budget.

Also, when it comes to casinos, sure, there are certainly the high end ones but  are very average at best (the ones where the country singers you haven't heard from in years show up). 

Devaluing the brand, another crutch for some peeps to lean on.

Cheers!

[Foster's Freeze]

Some Zoos have beautuful concert venues.

I agree 100%.

[HeyJude]

There’s little question that if a band doesn’t “oversaturate” the market, when they *do* go out and tour, they can book larger venues and get potentially more prestigious bookings and whatnot. This is true for relatively well-known artists with a following and a pool of fans who won’t forget about them after five minutes. Some bands have to stay out there to keep up name recognition. This is not true of the Beach Boys, at least as far as touring *every* year.

The “Beach Boys” brand has no problem booking plenty of shows. However, there is still a “value” ascribed to their brand by the concert/tour industry. I wish I could find the article, but there was an industry expert (I think the article was on Pollstar or something like that) who commented around the time of C50 that there was/is a perception in the industry that the “Beach Boys” as a touring act have been a lesser brand because of the erosion of original/core band members, and they specifically spoke to how the C50 tour, because of its membership, was going to give them a serious uptick in terms of their perception in the industry. This was coming not from a “hardcore” fan, or even necessarily a fan, but from someone in the industry who knows which names have which perception in the industry.

If the goal is just to exist somewhere out there, playing gigs in some form, then the industry perception doesn’t matter much. But if you’re trying to build a brand rather than just keep it from expiring, then stuff like that matters. There were apparently those in the band years ago who understood the possibility of overexposure, such as Carl. But there was and is a tradeoff that they’re willing to make, and it involves more money sooner rather than trying to cultivate a better perception or image. It’s “status quo” to the max. Clearly they’ve reached a point where bookings and revenue aren’t sliding (I would assume), so it’s easier to just keep it the way it is. It’s also probably too late to build demand simply for the name. If the “Beach Boys” didn’t tour in 2014, would they get more better bookings in 2015? Maybe not. But if a full five-man lineup toured once every 5 to 7 years, they probably would. No, that isn’t realistic when it comes to the BB’s for about a million reasons; I realize.

[Foster's Freeze]

I wonder how long it will take for BRI to realize the money they could earn with a touring "Tribute to the Beach Boys" which is approved by, licensed by and ultimately signed off by BRI?

Judith Belishi and Dan Aykroyd make a boatload of cash each year from the Blues Brothers review.

http://bluesbrothersofficialsite.com/p-9892-the-official-blues-brothers-revue.html

 

[southbay]

They realize it and it will happen once Mike stops

[KittyKat]

Make it a special birthday party for $30,000-$75,000.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Make it a special birthday party for $30,000-$75,000.

Unfortunately, not much is beneath any working musician these days ...... This is mostly out of necessity, not greed.

[Nicko1234]

For a band with history and catalog like the Beach Boys they shouldn't have to drop down to a winery.  When will you be able to book Mike and Bruce for a birthday party?  Oh wait, you can!  This all comes back in my opinion to Mike worrying about devaluing the band - playing shows at ANY venue that will give him a check devalues the brand.  Next time they are in SoCal they should play the parking lot at Chez Jay's.  Play the winery as "Mike and Bruce of the Beach Boys" and that's cool by me.

I believe it's tacky for ANY artist to appear on a shopping network show to try and sell product and that's Brian, Mike and Bruce's band or Al if for some reason he would ever do it.   You may disagree with me (and I think you already do, LOL) but that's my opinion, nothing more.

Wouldn`t happen though. Brian, Al　and David can all now bill themselves as, `of The Beach Boys` on promotional material it seems but that doesn`t seem to have helped Al oor David to book a huge number more gigs.

Mike pays for The Beach Boys name because he needs it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

This again is coming from a person who saw The Beach Boys numerous times from the 70's up until Carl passing away.  MY Beach Boys Band included Bobby, Billy, Ed, Mike, etc. That's what I spent decades hearing and seeing, that's what I like.

Hired hands, every last one of them.

We have people here like Andrew who will never find fault with Mike and Bruce... 

You're new here, aren't you ? 

[KittyKat]

For a band with history and catalog like the Beach Boys they shouldn't have to drop down to a winery.  When will you be able to book Mike and Bruce for a birthday party?  Oh wait, you can!  This all comes back in my opinion to Mike worrying about devaluing the band - playing shows at ANY venue that will give him a check devalues the brand.  Next time they are in SoCal they should play the parking lot at Chez Jay's.  Play the winery as "Mike and Bruce of the Beach Boys" and that's cool by me.

I believe it's tacky for ANY artist to appear on a shopping network show to try and sell product and that's Brian, Mike and Bruce's band or Al if for some reason he would ever do it.   You may disagree with me (and I think you already do, LOL) but that's my opinion, nothing more.

Wouldn`t happen though. Brian, Al　and David can all now bill themselves as, `of The Beach Boys` on promotional material it seems but that doesn`t seem to have helped Al oor David to book a huge number more gigs.

Mike pays for The Beach Boys name because he needs it.

Yep, on the private gig booking site, they headline Al and David's Surf All Stars as "Original Beach Boys." But I don't know how many jobs they've gotten in spite of that. It's hard to know, because most truly private events are not publicized. There must be a demand for surf-themed bands, though, because Papa Doo Run Run has a calendar on their site where at least a couple of gigs a month are blocked off for private parties. They may find it easier to get work that way because I'm sure they're a lot cheaper than any of the three versions of touring Beach Boys.

[the captain]

Some Zoos have beautuful concert venues.

I agree 100%.

The Minnesota Zoo has a fantastic space for shows, and BW's show there (last summer?) was really fantastic. Beautiful venue. (That show included a much-lauded GOK, which I actually thought was more notable for an irate Probyn not having his french horn and Scott having the wrong sound on his keyboard, making me assume there may have been some set list confusion...)

As for those who have issues with private gigs, I guess I say get over it. It's not rare, whether oldies acts or current hitmakers. Cruises with featured artists, corporate events, social aristocracy, doesn't matter: it happens. Elton John playing Rush Limbaugh's wedding, if I'm not mistaken. Lana Del Rey doing Kanye West's and Kim Kardashian's wedding. The list goes on almost infinitely. The little guy is the little guy, and the big paycheck is the big paycheck.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

This is by far my fave:

http://cruisetotheedge.com/

[RioGrande]

It seems that not only there are some "intellectual" types here who think pubs are beneath them, but they also have no idea what a "pub" can be. There are enormous and beautiful pubs, in Ireland, Scotland and elsewhere, where there is live music by performers ranging from good local groups with moderate international following, to the great Chieftains.  

Extolling the magnificence of wineries vs. pubs is a bit ridiculous, though I understand that the equation here is WINERY: where the Exalted M & B Beach Boys play - PUB: where negligible "Hired hands" (according to AGD) like Brian's Band play.

Now excuse me, I'm off to the nearest pub to quaff a pint or two, exchange rough jokes with the other commoners there and listen to some jigs (no, it's NOT a misspelling for "gigs").