Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks?

[Nile]

10 Tracks w/ a bunch of add-ins


1.) Heroes & Villains
Bag of Tricks Intro  (revised edit)
H&V Part 1 (sln 1967 mix)
IIGS (revised edit)
Barnyard
DYLW?
H&V Part 2 (MiC)
H&V Outro
2.) OMP
3.) Cabinessence
4.) Vege-Tables
5.) Wind Chimes (smiley smile[personal preference])
Workshop ("just tools" edit)
"Psychedelic Sounds: Moaning-Laughing" (revised edit)
6.) Fire
Fire Outro
7.) Water Chant
8.) Wonderful
Love To Say Dada ("just dada" edit)
9.) CIFOTM
George Fell.. ("just horns" edit)
10.) Surf's Up

Damn I just thought of something - anyone ever considered mixing "Our Prayer" and "Bag of Tricks"(alleged H&V Intro) together? I would, but lack the skills. I imagine it would be equal parts demented & divine.

Now that´s what I call a dare move, a dare mix.. This is something I´d love to hear...
Some ideas will surely incorporate in my mix, that´s also cookin´ up for some time now..
Mixing Prayer and bag of tricks would be something truly bizzare and great.. Think we should call up to the rescue the master Selt!

[Rocket]

I would really love to hear this! If you can make it and put it on YouTube, that'd be awesome! I enjoyed your Aquarian Mix quite a bit, I'd like to see this mix as well.

Hey, I will make this for you, but I won't be able to do it until Monday or Tuesday.  If you can wait that long I'll do it, unless Mulan beats me to it. 

I can wait as long as needed! Though, I listen through my phone, so any downloads won't work. Any chance you can put it on YouTube?

[soniclovenoize]

Nope, the Youtube Police will get me.

Last year I got an infraction for uploading my SMiLE mix, and I was nailed for Good Vibrations.  I lost the privilege of 20+min videos as well as being able to upload private videos, features I use extensively with my own music,so I'm not gonna risk it.  Sorry

[Rocket]

Nope, the Youtube Police will get me.

Last year I got an infraction for uploading my SMiLE mix, and I was nailed for Good Vibrations.  I lost the privilege of 20+min videos as well as being able to upload private videos, features I use extensively with my own music,so I'm not gonna risk it.  Sorry

That's alright! Thanks anyways! I'll think I'll make my own, all I need to do is download some of the Psycodelic Sound bits. I'll post a more in-depth tracklist of it when I am done eventually, so you guys can give suggestions or make it.

[shangaijoeBB]

To my ears, the Psychedelic Sounds very much like experiments going nowhere and personally, I think those would clash next to the production of the SMiLE tracks. Brian was trying everything during this period, but I don't think these skits would have fitted well. Well, maybe "George Fell Into His French Horn"!

[yonderhillside]

I think the Psych Sounds fit in if you're going for a sillier take on Smile, such as Smiley Smile. However, if you're looking for the 3-suite classical masterpiece, then yeah, they sound like utter nonsense haha.. I added excerpts of the "Surf's Up Talking Horns" (specifically the drone section) from the box before "George Fell.." and it sounds pretty twisted.

[Summertime Blooz]

I think 'Brian Falls Into A Piano' has a goofy charm that I like to include. And *Bonus* it ends with the words "I wanna be 'round my vegetables." Sounds like a segue/intro to me.

[SenorPotatoHead]

I've always been under the impression that, at least initially, part of the idea behind the album was to present the silly/dumb with the sublime/angelic, a melding of the two.   That's what Dumb Angel alludes to as a title, and Smile too I guess, at least in part.   If the psych sounds were edited down to the best bits, then it might actually work nicely.    It may in fact be a closer approximation to the original intent for the finished album than any version thus far (nefarious or official).  Though I repeat it MAY be a closer approximation, not that it is, or would be; because there are no facts to back that up really.  There's hints, but no cold hard solid irrefutable proof (just coverin' my ass before the Smile popo comes and gets me  )
As Surfer is wont to say: You're under arrest! 

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've always been under the impression that, at least initially, part of the idea behind the album was to present the silly/dumb with the sublime/angelic, a melding of the two.   That's what Dumb Angel alludes to as a title, and Smile too I guess, at least in part.   If the psych sounds were edited down to the best bits, then it might actually work nicely.    It may in fact be a closer approximation to the original intent for the finished album than any version thus far (nefarious or official).  Though I repeat it MAY be a closer approximation, not that it is, or would be; because there are no facts to back that up really.  There's hints, but no cold hard solid irrefutable proof (just coverin' my ass before the Smile popo comes and gets me  )
As Surfer is wont to say: You're under arrest! 

I agree. Again, like ALL of the SMiLE pieces, Brian recorded them for a reason. It may have been for just a fleeting moment, but at least the idea WAS there. Like you mentioned, nicely edited, succinctly placed snippets might've worked. Sometimes when I listen to Smiley Smile I can easily envision the humorous bits working.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I like the Capitol sequence.  It may seem a bit disjointed, as was stated, but it isn't all that much really, to me anyway.  It makes me wonder, what if some snippets from the humor sketches were used as brief interludes between the songs (I know this idea has been mentioned recently on here, and Brian himself seemed to have said as much back in the day) - would it provide more of an initial sense of "flow"?  
However, listening to this sequence as i currently am, it strikes me that...well, that I like it very much indeed!   Even without any between song "humor".  

You and soniclovenoize have just said what I've been saying this whole time. Not about using the Capitol sequence, but about using snippets from the comedy skits and the 'revelation' that everything we think we know about SMiLE is mostly echoing speculation that's been repeated so long it's taken as fact. I'm replying to you specifically tho, because you've given me an awesome idea. Someone should edit together the Capitol sequence using Psychedelic Sounds pieces to bridge and occasionally flesh out the songs. I may try my hand at it at some point, but someone else can and should try their hand as well. Could be really cool. Perhaps as close as possible to Brian's original intent. Any fanmix that isn't "BWPS...with a few slight alterations" is awesome in my book.

I would really love to hear this! If you can make it and put it on YouTube, that'd be awesome! I enjoyed your Aquarian Mix quite a bit, I'd like to see this mix as well.

Hey thanks, man! Glad you enjoyed it. I can't promise when, but I'll get around to it eventually. After Aquarian, I'm kinda smiled-out. I'm working on some other pet projects right now. But I see that sonic and you are considering doing your own, which is awesome. That's what I was hoping for the most by doing Aquarian in the first place, convincing people to ignore the established standards and do their own unique take on it.

But...sonic....it's "Mujan" if you don't mind. I'm not Chinese. Or a woman. Haha.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Nope, the Youtube Police will get me.

Last year I got an infraction for uploading my SMiLE mix, and I was nailed for Good Vibrations.  I lost the privilege of 20+min videos as well as being able to upload private videos, features I use extensively with my own music,so I'm not gonna risk it.  Sorry

That's alright! Thanks anyways! I'll think I'll make my own, all I need to do is download some of the Psycodelic Sound bits. I'll post a more in-depth tracklist of it when I am done eventually, so you guys can give suggestions or make it.

I look forward to it, man. When I do mine, I'll probably stick to my "2 suite" format I've come to love so much. It'll be more "historically accurate" in that I'll make it a more reasonable length (40 minutes or so, maybe less) with only the twelve tracks on the back cover (so, no Second Day, Look, H&V2 or Mrs Olearys Cow) but probably not in the exact sequence of the back cover itself. As I've said before, I think the back cover is evidence, but not gospel. I think the "see label for correct playing order" disclaimer is more significant than others here seem to. So I'll probably stick to some order which groups Heroes, Veggies, Cabin & Worms on one side and Surf, Chimes, Child and Wonderful on the other. This is the way it sounds best to me.


I agree with senorpotatohead and Sheriff John Stone--what makes the Psychedelic Sound bits work is how spur of the moment and silly they are next to the very planned out and awe inspiring beauty of the music. I believe Brian said he wanted to make music people could pray to and also demonstrate the power of laughter. The PS bits would certainly accomplish the latter. Also, they tie the whole thing together. The goofy song names (Do You Like Worms, especially) the childish drawing on the cover, the pictures showing the boys out of their element... It all fits with the PS bits included, and explains a lot of the weirder Smiley parts previously misinterpreted as Brian lazily letting mistakes in. We now know that the Smiley direction was his idea, that he was still just as in command during the Smiley sessions and the break from SMiLE to Smiley was perhaps not as clean as previously believed. Similarly, it now makes more sense that Mike and the Boys hated or at least disapproved of the project (or, if you prefer, "the lyrics") but still maintain they always loved the music. Perhaps they heard the PS bits and put their foot down against them, but still wanted to use the actual melodies Brian was writing. Maybe in Mike's mind, these were part of VDP's "lyrics" hence his disapproval despite the "cabin essence incident" being the only recorded case of him even questioning any actual song lyrics? Just a thought. In any case, I think PS deserves way more attention than it gets. They weren't recorded for nothing. Even if they were just a bizarre set of experiments forgotten about by the next week...Brian said the new album would have lots of humor and spoken word sections. Not only does PS fit the bill for that, it's the only thing that does, unless you count the H&V "You're under arrest/That was for you, Punk!"

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Funnily enough, it's almost all 1966 recordings (I used to call this the "December mix") - I hadn't thought of it having any particular resemblance to Smiley Smile before you mentioned it! Not one of my favourites, I'll confess.

It's very poor scholarship, but I can't track down the name of the specific track I used as the intro for Wind Chimes, or even if it was a "Psychodelic Sound" at all. As a matter of fact, it might even be from a Heroes session - it's the boys making rhythmic puffing and breathing noises.

Sorry about the vagueness!

I think I know what you mean. I used it to bridge Wind Chimes' "air" quality with the visual of a woman in labor, breathing heavy into CIFOTM, for Aquarian SMiLE. It's a psychedelic sounds skit. But the latter half, where the breathing transitions to wild laughter is listed as a H&V piece in the boxset.

[yonderhillside]

Funnily enough, it's almost all 1966 recordings (I used to call this the "December mix") - I hadn't thought of it having any particular resemblance to Smiley Smile before you mentioned it! Not one of my favourites, I'll confess.

It's very poor scholarship, but I can't track down the name of the specific track I used as the intro for Wind Chimes, or even if it was a "Psychodelic Sound" at all. As a matter of fact, it might even be from a Heroes session - it's the boys making rhythmic puffing and breathing noises.

Sorry about the vagueness!

Ah yes I think I know what you're referring to. If it's the segment I'm thinking of it's what I call the "Swedish Frog" segment of the Heroes & Villains Part 2 (MIC Box) and also, the excerpt I use in another Smile mix, from Odeon's 10 minute "Heroes & Villains Suite," in which the "Swedish Frog" segment is longer than the H&V Pt. 2 segment and contains the actual words, where someone laughingly says, "swedish frog." God! that was a winding path of narrative... I hope it was all accurate. I do not wish to proof read or fact check at this time. 

[Michael Edwards Love]

http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/86737238/file.html

^ For the last two weeks I've been listening to this, just the "Capitol Sequence", and it's really interesting.  When I first got into SMiLE back in 2001 I dismissed this sequence quickly so I never really sat and listened to it.  But on the other hand, I wasn't able to fully "complete" all twelve songs as we are now, so that's kind of a different story now.

But this sequence--the handwritten list--is really interesting because it it begins quite well (Our Prayer -> Worms -> Wind Chimes), and it has a fun ending (Vege-Tables -> OMP).  But the rest seems disjointed and not so cohesive.  But yet it's pretty fun because it's so different to what I am used to...  But what's really interesting is that it takes everything out of context...  And by context, it's the mythos we have all created for SMiLE over the years.  There is no over-arching theme or suites or any interconnected songs at all.  It's just simply an album of 12 songs, even moreso than my "1967" mix each song will fail or thrive based on their own merits.  And of course the whole second side is scatterbrained and unfinished, and is like three minutes shorter than the first. 

But I'm thinking about it, and whose to say that we all have been thinking about SMiLE correctly all these years?  Have we perhaps been perpetuating myths that never existed nor would have happened...  What if this was SMiLE?  What if it was disjointed?  idk about you, but I've always felt Smiley Smile as a bit like that, pretty disjointed.  Maybe SMiLE was simply a really produced Smiley Smile rather than this huge epic? 

soniclovenoize, I listened to this today and really enjoyed it.  You are absolutely correct that the "Capitol sequence" puts a better emphasis on the individual songs.  All "concept" just disappears. 

One problem (IMO) with BWPS sequence is that it was constructed after 30+ years of concept albums meant to take you on some album length journey and, in many cases, songs became subject to the concept for good or for ill. 

The "Capitol sequence" approach to Smile gives the songs precedence over the concept.  After a few years of Smile-listening overkill, this was a refreshing way to hear it again.

[soniclovenoize]

Thanks!  I feel the same way!  

EDIT
And for those keeping score, while I did just use my stereo edits I created last year, some of those are entirely different, like Cabin Essence (where I put the Truck Driving Man line back) and The Elements (which uses all three versions of Second Day/Dada part 2, to reflect the other elements interacting with eachother, as I suggested earlier in the thread).

[Phoenix]

Rather than start a new thread, I figured I'd use an old one and this one seemed as good as any since I'd posted here already.  Anywho, I'm nearing completion of my long gestating (through TWO hard drive crashes, among many other set backs and I'm down to the last two songs on my mix; one of which I need some help with.  Can anyone please let me know where I can find the mix of "Surf's Up" with the "acapella tag"  I seem to recall hearing it on youtube and I don't care how long the the audio file is (eg. whether I need to go through an entire mix for just that one part).  Specifically what I need is the vocal tag WITHOUT Al's "Children's song" part.  Anyone?  Bueller??  PLEASE help me locate this as it's absolutely necessary for my mix and I won't be able to move forward without i. 

Another thing I need help with is determining tweaks that I might have to make to the final mix.  I used all mono tracks to the best of knowledge but some transitions still sound off.  I'll be posting the whole thing online for everyone eventually but first I need someone with good ears to let me know if there's anything suspect with a couple of the tracks.  PM me if you REALLY think you can help me on that.  I'll choose a couple of folks on a first come, first serve basis.

[Summertime Blooz]

Rather than start a new thread, I figured I'd use an old one and this one seemed as good as any since I'd posted here already.  Anywho, I'm nearing completion of my long gestating (through TWO hard drive crashes, among many other set backs and I'm down to the last two songs on my mix; one of which I need some help with.  Can anyone please let me know where I can find the mix of "Surf's Up" with the "acapella tag"  I seem to recall hearing it on youtube and I don't care how long the the audio file is (eg. whether I need to go through an entire mix for just that one part).  Specifically what I need is the vocal tag WITHOUT Al's "Children's song" part.  Anyone?  Bueller??  PLEASE help me locate this as it's absolutely necessary for my mix and I won't be able to move forward without i. 

Another thing I need help with is determining tweaks that I might have to make to the final mix.  I used all mono tracks to the best of knowledge but some transitions still sound off.  I'll be posting the whole thing online for everyone eventually but first I need someone with good ears to let me know if there's anything suspect with a couple of the tracks.  PM me if you REALLY think you can help me on that.  I'll choose a couple of folks on a first come, first serve basis.

Do you mean Disc 3 Track 20 of the Smile Sessions box set called 'Surf's Up: Piano Demo (master take)'? It's not a cappella, but it's just voice and piano.

[Phoenix]

No. What I'm referring to is a fan mix.  I'm not sure if it's acapella.  It might actually been processed out of phase.  The thing is I THINK I heard it on youtube but that might not be the case.  Surely SOMEONE knows what I'm referring to?   

[soniclovenoize]

No. What I'm referring to is a fan mix.  I'm not sure if it's acapella.  It might actually been processed out of phase.  The thing is I THINK I heard it on youtube but that might not be the case.  Surely SOMEONE knows what I'm referring to?   

http://www53.zippyshare.com/v/96164732/file.html

You have to OoP the stereo mix on TSS 2LP.

You could also isolate the right channel on the Surf's Up album version, but this seemed a lot clearer. 

[Phoenix]

Thanks so much!!! 

[Bill Tobelman]

According to the late great Bob Hanes: when Brian saw the written 12 track list (in Carl's handwriting) for SMiLE that Capitol Records had on file Brian was like, "What the hell is this?"

Apparently that wasn't an accurate representation of SMiLE in Brian's opinion.

As far as Brian's claim to Tracy Thomas that he was working on a 12 track LP with Van Dyke goes......I think Brian was keeping SMiLE a secret in order to blow minds upon its release. When discussing the "Heroes & Villains" single later on Brian says he is thinking of a non-album b-side to keep the LP as much of a surprise as possible.

As far as the individual tracks thing goes....this doesn't seem to honestly fit with SMiLE. I realize that there's a strong attraction for this kind of standardized LP line-up for fans as it can be found found throughout the Beach Boys' catalog and it is traditionally how LPs are done.

But SMiLE broke all the rules. Songs were done in sections, the sections were being constantly shifted around, Brian was trying various sequences of the recorded sections, and so on. This modular style was far from the traditional style of recording and far from the PET SOUNDS style of recording (which yielded 12 tracks plus the "Sloop John B" single). The way in which the numerous SMiLE "sections" were recorded and pieced together in an ever changing fashion belies the standard LP 12-14 track set-up. And reports from David Leaf perhaps via Debbie Keil seem to indicate that SMiLE was to have a connected flow too it.

I think of it like a pizza. You can cut it into 12-14 pieces or 3 pieces. You can even cut it into 2 pieces to put it on two sides of a single record.

[Bill Tobelman]

Given that many of the SMiLE sections come under the heading of either "Heroes & Villains" or "The Elements" I suggest that this is a suitable way the 3 movement SMiLE can become a 12 title LP made of only Brian & VDP songs (keep in mind that Carl's 12 track listing that was given to Capitol doesn't count).

The Prayer
Heroes And Villains (includes Gee, IIGS & Barnyard)
Do You Like Worms
Cabin Essence

Wonderful
Look
Child Is Father Of The Man
Surf's Up

Vega-Tables
Holidays
The Elements
Good Vibrations

There you are. The LP as described to Tracy Thomas as a 12 tracker also is a 3 movement piece. The songs could have been delineated along such lines.

The pieces written by outside composers don't count as Brian told Tracy Thomas that all the music was done by him & VDP.

[drbeachboy]

So, how does Brian break up Movement 2 for sides 1 & 2? While I agree this looks do-able, do you really think he'd drop Wind Chimes? To me this seems to fit better theme wise better than Holidays.

[Bill Tobelman]

My personal preference is to lead off side two of SMiLE with "Surf's Up."

"Wind Chimes" works it way in under the heading of "The Elements" as does "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" and "Love To Say DaDa." Those three are strung together.

[Bill Tobelman]

"Vega-Tables" was considered as a stand alone single & so it's separated from The Elements.