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Author Topic: Do you prefer SMiLE as a 3 movements piece or as 12-14 tracks?  (Read 66873 times)
soniclovenoize
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« Reply #100 on: June 19, 2014, 05:22:19 PM »

As for SMILE sequences, well my own is in my head and it changes every day....Worms and Cabinessence precede Heroes (chronology and all that)  One day I might have the time to take all those little pieces I've amassed over the last 38 years and weave them into something I can plug into my iPod and take everywhere, though having it to hand will spoil much of that magic in my head.

I have "Worms" and "Cabinessence" preceding "Heroes And Villains", too! I have a feeling we're in the minority there. I know you mentioned your mix is in your head, but I'd be interested in seeing it if you'd care to share it Smiley 

I'm another fan of having Worms come first, followed by H&V. That's the way it's sequenced on that darn pesky Capitol memo. Why do you think that is?

I've said it before, others have as well, but my theory is that whomever made the list was listing them off the top of their head, starting with the most complete or at least most "blue-printed".  If you look at the list, we have the seven most finalized songs first, and then the five more fragmentary songs near the end as he/she sort of struggled to brainstorm what would actually be finished to be on the album.

Hence it's a list of songs that would be on the album rather than the actual tracklist (thus the *see label for correct playing order")
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Phoenix
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« Reply #101 on: June 19, 2014, 06:32:29 PM »

That's how it was conceived, that's how it was almost produced...

I would really love to see your documentary proof for this unequivocal statement. The back slick list wasn't in Brian's handwriting, nor was it in any order... but you say you know the track sequence. How ?

OK.  Bear with me, as I'm not trying to be snarky at all.  Obviously there's no way I could know the way things REALLY went down without being there but there's a lot of stuff that when looked at realistically, just makes "too much sense" to be wrong.  Regardless of the handwriting, that list was either dictated or authorized by Brian to be sent to Capitol, for them to use as the OFFICIAL list of songs for their new album.  Things fell apart, Brian didn't finish the album, and it was scrapped but that doesn't change the fact that those 12 songs (plus "Our Prayer" and any other "hidden tracks" he may have also included) were what Brian intended to put on the upcoming album.  I'll get to the running order shortly but there's far more concrete evidence (mainly the slicks) saying "those were the songs Brian intended for Smile in early 1967, with the album's release looming" than anything proving they weren't.  


(Our Prayer - hidden "intro to the album")
Heroes And Villains (intro/Cantina version through tape explosion/single version from first chorus/ending bits I can't remember the names of)
Do You Like Worms (with discarded vocal line)
The Old Master Painter (Barnyard/TOMP/Barnshine fade)
Wonderful
Child Is Father Of The Man (includes both Look and CIFTTM)
Cabinessence

(You're Welcome - depending on my mood)
Good Vibrations
I'm In Great Shape (IIGS/I Wanna Be around/Workshop)
Vega-Tables
Wind Chimes
The Elements (Mrs O'Leary's Cow - the intro/Air/Earth/Water)*
Surf's Up (sung by Brian without Reilly's lyrics/Al's vocal at the end)

* I have no idea what Brian intended for "The Elements", other than what I parenthetically listed above, nor do I know the order beyond MOC coming first. 

Eh. See, this is what I don't understand. Why is everyone so dead-set on this elements suite/side? There was initially one single track called "the elements" that was never properly assembled, much less written. Where and why did this whole Elements suite come into the SMiLE cannon? Why this obsession with putting Chimes and Veggies together? They sound nothing alike, it's such a jarring transition (as is Chimes into Cow.) You shoehorned a song about Children and loss of innocence into the Americana songs and tacked Surf's Up on at the end of these "element songs" that have nothing to do with it. To each his own, of course, but I resent the way you offer a pretty unoriginal sequence and claim this is the way it was always supposed to go.

I just don't see it, and this illustrates why I called "The Elements" the scourge of SMiLE Mixers. It's so overemphasized, we waste so much time trying to hamfist unrelated bits together because of half-assed 'well this sounds like air to me' type reasoning instead of being imaginative with the material. The Elements is a red herring. Just put the pieces you want to use in places where they sound good.

As I highlighted above, I agree with what I believe is most of what you do.  I see "The Elements" as a single song, comprised of four section, of which only one was completed.  We know "Fire (MOC)" was "'The Elements' part one" but most evidence suggest that at best, Brian never told anyone what he intended for the other parts and at worst, never even got around to composing them.  I don't think of "Wind Chimes" and "Vega-Tables" as neither part of "The Elements" (song) or an elements suite.  Where I think our opinions differ is I don't think there were ANY suites, Americana, loss/innocence, or anything.  Sure there were themes Brian and Van Dyke were exploring here and there but I don't think those themes dictated the album's order order in any overwhelming way.  Like "Sloop John B" and the title track's placement on Pet Sounds, I think Brian's personal preference was what mattered most in that regard.

ETC.

I'm not in the mood for typing out a real long, in-depth reply to you right now as I usually would. When I am, I will edit this. Just wanted you to know I read this and agree with a good chunk of what you have to say. The fact that you concede that The Elements was an unfinished track and not like a suite, that really makes me appreciate where you're coming from a lot more, even if I still disagree with things like putting Veggies and Chimes together. To be continued.

Thanks! I look forward to more back and forth.  Drinking Buddies
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« Reply #102 on: June 19, 2014, 07:12:48 PM »

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EXACTLY!  And what happened to "Good Vibrations" would also have happened to "IIGS", "TOMP", "CIFOTM", and given enough time, "The Elements".  Sadly Brian couldn't stop fussing with "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and time ran out on the whole thing.

Not necessarily.  "Heroes and Villains" and "Vegetables" were revamped that much because they were considered singles.  "Great Shape," by comparison, is more of a castaway, part of "Heroes" rejected for other sections.  And prior to being considered a single, I wonder if that earlier "Vegetables" was the earth section of "The Elements."

Definitely agree with the 12 tracks.


Brian recorded in sections with the intent of assembling them into a series of DIFFERENT songs.  Smile's two singles were revamped BECAUSE they were singles.  They were CONSTANTLY revamped because Brian couldn't make a final decision on how to arrange the sections within them.  At one time "H&V" didn't have the "Bicycle Rider" chorus but instead had the "In the Cantina" section.  At another time, it included the "I'm In Great Shape" section which, once he'd discarded it, he chose to expand into its own separate song (as noted by its inclusion on the submitted tracklisting) by adding additional OTHER sections to it.  And while the "Great Shape" SECTION can be looked at as a castaway, there's no doubt in MY mind that Brian didn't considered that SECTION a song, any more than he did "Prelude to Fade".  As I said earlier, the thing biggest thing BWPS got "wrong" was designating each SECTION with it's own (song) title, thus mudding the waters of section and song.

"I'm In Great Shape" (SONG) = the individual SECTIONS of "I'm In Great Shape", "I Wanna Be Around (Friday Night)", and "Workshop".
"The Old Master Painter" SONG * = the individual SECTIONS of "Barnyard", "The Old Master Painter", "You Were My Sunshine", and "Barnshine fade (False Barnyard)"

It's no different any of the other songs that were recorded modularly, except that they weren't assembled in the 1960's.

The SONG "Cabinessence" was made by Brian arranging it into a combination of two verses (made from the SECTION originally known as "Cabinessence"), two chorus repeats (of the SECTION originally known as "Who Ran The Iron Horse"), and a tag (consisting of the SECTION originally known as "Grand Coulee Dam"), rand not just the verse section.  We don't call it "Cabinessence/Who Ran The Iron Horse/Cabinessence part 2/Who Ran The Iron Horse part 2/Grand Coulee Dam" because it makes no morse sense than referring to "Workshop" as its own song, when it's obviously just a SECTION of one.

As for whether or not "Vega-Tables" was ever intended as part of "The Elements", Who knows???  Maybe it started off there and, like "IIGS" was expanded into a full song instead.  Another option (which I'm favoring lately) is that's exactly what happened but was ALSO intended to remain part of "The Elements", just as the "Bicycle Rider" section showed up in "H&V" and then returned in "DYLW".  After all, much like the "Bicycle Rider" section, we know there are two different sets of lyrics for "Vega-Tables" (tripped on a cornicopia).



* Which was referred to in the Priess book as "The Barnyard Suite".  I prefer the other title, as that's what Capitol printed on the album slicks.
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« Reply #103 on: June 19, 2014, 07:19:15 PM »

Just want to add that I'm just getting around to replying to previous posts and clarifying a few things in them.  I don't want to restart the "what it is" thing.  police
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Jim V.
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« Reply #104 on: June 19, 2014, 10:32:36 PM »

It's beautiful in its own way, it's just as valid a Smile as any other version...it's just not THE SMiLE.

It's just as valid as any other SMiLE, really? It's not like a billion times more valid than yours or mine, since you know, it was finished by Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks? Come on man. Whether or not you like BWPS that is IT. Brian, in the liner notes, states that it's the finished SMiLE. Whatever you think of Brian and his capabilities in 2004, he deemed it finished, and I think he has much, much, much more room to assess that than any of us.

Id like to direct you to the comment that's five posts above me.

Seriously, this sh!t's just comical at this point.  LOL Like goshdarn, better pick your words carefully or one smug prick or another'll jump down your throat over semantics. Or over what songs you choose to leave out. Or anything else, really. God forbid I try to move the thread back on track from that prior ugliness. No, please, lets duke it out because I said BWPS is a valid SMiLE.

Well, ok. If you wanna go that route. Yeah, I think it's a valid SMiLE. No, I don't think it's a billion times more valid just because Brian was involved. I think it's a great body of music that the Brian of 67 started and the Brian of 03 revisited and pieced together in a way that pleased him at the time, and in the context of a live presentation rather than an LP. He played around with the material that was there, just like all of us making our own fanmixes. I don't believe for a second that a historical 1967 album wouldve been anything like BWPS in terms of structure. I've explained why in previous posts.

If you have a problem with this opinion of mine...again, refer to the Potatohead's comment.

Wow. You are probably the thinnest-skinned person that I've ever communicated with. You take any time somebody disagrees with you to be some major affront. Listen up, Mujjin, this is a forum for Beach Boys fans and we all have our own opinions and takes on the continuing history of the group. Sometimes it becomes quite contentious. But regardless, most of us have a respect for the other posters and their opinions. Apparently though, you just know so much better than the rest of us, and you aren't to be questioned. So maybe from here on out we should just ignore your posts so that way we won't be able to respond and offend your fragile sensibilities.

Phew....anyways if you can handle this without me offending you for disagreeing....

How can you say that BWPS isn't infinitely more valid than your attempt? Seriously? Regardless of the time table, Brian and Van Dyke returned to their original work and finished it. It's is theirs to be declared finished or incomplete or whatever they please. Now, do I think the three movement BWPS format is awesome? To be honest, no. I think the album is overlong, and it's a lot to digest. I woulda simply preferred a straight "album of songs" however, I'm assuming that Brian, Darian and Van Dyke were aware that the unveiling of the completed SMiLE had to be epic and so they did the whole "suite" thing, possibly to increase the "classical music" feeling. Also, I agree that a completed 1960s SMiLE (or even Carl's 1970s attempt) likely wouldn't have had the same type of structure. But as I've said earlier, there is no 1967 SMiLE. There is the 2004 version, properly finished by the original collaborators. And for The Beach Boys tapes there is the 2011 version. And that's it. And I think to say that any of your YouTube posted attempts is more valid than Brian Wilson's is bunk. That would be like you coming up with a new Pet Sounds running order and saying yours is just as valid.  Just because Pet Sounds came out relatively quickly and SMiLE didn't has no bearing. It's the artists work and not ours. If we want to do our own, we should create our own music. However, nobody is obligated to like what the artist has chosen, and I feel its very fair for a fan to love the songs but not particularly love the sequencing.
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #105 on: June 19, 2014, 11:29:40 PM »

It's beautiful in its own way, it's just as valid a Smile as any other version...it's just not THE SMiLE.

It's just as valid as any other SMiLE, really? It's not like a billion times more valid than yours or mine, since you know, it was finished by Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks? Come on man. Whether or not you like BWPS that is IT. Brian, in the liner notes, states that it's the finished SMiLE. Whatever you think of Brian and his capabilities in 2004, he deemed it finished, and I think he has much, much, much more room to assess that than any of us.

Id like to direct you to the comment that's five posts above me.

Seriously, this sh!t's just comical at this point.  LOL Like goshdarn, better pick your words carefully or one smug prick or another'll jump down your throat over semantics. Or over what songs you choose to leave out. Or anything else, really. God forbid I try to move the thread back on track from that prior ugliness. No, please, lets duke it out because I said BWPS is a valid SMiLE.

Well, ok. If you wanna go that route. Yeah, I think it's a valid SMiLE. No, I don't think it's a billion times more valid just because Brian was involved. I think it's a great body of music that the Brian of 67 started and the Brian of 03 revisited and pieced together in a way that pleased him at the time, and in the context of a live presentation rather than an LP. He played around with the material that was there, just like all of us making our own fanmixes. I don't believe for a second that a historical 1967 album wouldve been anything like BWPS in terms of structure. I've explained why in previous posts.

If you have a problem with this opinion of mine...again, refer to the Potatohead's comment.

Wow. You are probably the thinnest-skinned person that I've ever communicated with. You take any time somebody disagrees with you to be some major affront. Listen up, Mujjin, this is a forum for Beach Boys fans and we all have our own opinions and takes on the continuing history of the group. Sometimes it becomes quite contentious. But regardless, most of us have a respect for the other posters and their opinions. Apparently though, you just know so much better than the rest of us, and you aren't to be questioned. So maybe from here on out we should just ignore your posts so that way we won't be able to respond and offend your fragile sensibilities.

Phew....anyways if you can handle this without me offending you for disagreeing....

How can you say that BWPS isn't infinitely more valid than your attempt? Seriously? Regardless of the time table, Brian and Van Dyke returned to their original work and finished it. It's is theirs to be declared finished or incomplete or whatever they please. Now, do I think the three movement BWPS format is awesome? To be honest, no. I think the album is overlong, and it's a lot to digest. I woulda simply preferred a straight "album of songs" however, I'm assuming that Brian, Darian and Van Dyke were aware that the unveiling of the completed SMiLE had to be epic and so they did the whole "suite" thing, possibly to increase the "classical music" feeling. Also, I agree that a completed 1960s SMiLE (or even Carl's 1970s attempt) likely wouldn't have had the same type of structure. But as I've said earlier, there is no 1967 SMiLE. There is the 2004 version, properly finished by the original collaborators. And for The Beach Boys tapes there is the 2011 version. And that's it. And I think to say that any of your YouTube posted attempts is more valid than Brian Wilson's is bunk. That would be like you coming up with a new Pet Sounds running order and saying yours is just as valid.  Just because Pet Sounds came out relatively quickly and SMiLE didn't has no bearing. It's the artists work and not ours. If we want to do our own, we should create our own music. However, nobody is obligated to like what the artist has chosen, and I feel its very fair for a fan to love the songs but not particularly love the sequencing.

Yeah, my apologies for my last reply. You happened to catch me at a very bad time, but that was no excuse for me to take it out on you. Of course, you couldve been a bit more polite yourself :-) Just saying, if you read the thread up to that point, it was pretty obvious I was aggravated by what was going on when you decided to prod me about my opinion.

Anyway, before I reply to the bulk of your post I just wanna make it clear for the hundredth time: I don't care about people disagreeing with me. That's not what I was being thin-skinned about, just some long-standing beef between me and Mikie that came to a head the other day. And I never said my mix was more valid than BWPS. Just, that BWPS is *a* SMiLE, and my mix is *a* SMiLE. If you read some of my earlier posts, I don't even think my mix is what a historical 1967 album would've been because I chose to exclude GV, my mix is very long, etc.

To me, the dealbreaker with BWPS is that it was conceived as a live presentation of the old material. It wasn't billed as a finished LP, as THE SMiLE until later. VDP was called in on a whim, from my understanding. It's not like Brian announced "I want to finish SMiLE, summon VDP!" It just kind of happened. True, there's no 67 album. Doesn't mean people like me still can't speculate. I think it's fun playing around with alternative ideas. I don't understand why you and others are so hell-bent on putting a damper on the fun with your iron-clad "BWPS is the unquestionable final word!" rhetoric.

I took Brian's "We finished it" to be more of a good PR move/his way of saying he was done with this material now, kinda thing. But I think even he would admit BWPS is nothing like the original intent, whatever that was. It's not an issue of how long it took him to get back to it. It's the fact that there wasn't any attempt to resurrect whatever original blueprints there had been. It's that a different band recorded it. It's that it was done as a live show, etc.

As potatohead said, it's pointless to argue about this. I'm not gonna sway you, nor you me. Theres legit reasons to call the 2004 album definitive, and legit reasons not to.

Btw, it's spelled "Mujan." If you don't mind Cool Guy
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 11:32:09 PM by Mujan, B@st@rd Son of a Blue Wizard » Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
Niko
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« Reply #106 on: June 19, 2014, 11:44:12 PM »

I somehow read it as 'Mulan' for a while. 'Mujjin' is cute though...
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #107 on: June 19, 2014, 11:53:35 PM »

I somehow read it as 'Mulan' for a while. 'Mujjin' is cute though...

Why yes, yes it is. Kind of like Muffin but with js, not fs. But there's a specific reason it's spelled the way it is, and I'd appreciate being called by my proper screenname, if you gentlemen don't mind.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
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« Reply #108 on: June 19, 2014, 11:56:31 PM »

Including the 'Bastard Son of Blue Wizard' part?
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Niko
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« Reply #109 on: June 19, 2014, 11:58:49 PM »

Are you working on any new Smile mixes as of right now, Mujan (BSoaBW)?
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #110 on: June 20, 2014, 12:07:56 AM »

Are you working on any new Smile mixes as of right now, Mujan (BSoaBW)?

You can include that if you want to. I like Tolkien's universe and I've always been fascinated by what happened to the two Blue Wizards. It's kinda like SMiLE itself, actually. A mystery with no answer.

Not really. I'm pretty satisfied with Aquarian SMiLE. I was originally gonna do 4 at once: a 2 suite, one big suite, a no suite and then just a long splicing of studio chatter because why not. But I lost interest in those other 3 for various reasons. They just seemed forced, and kinda didn't flow. If I get the time and inspiration I'll work on em again. But right now I'm really feeling good about this 2 suite idea. It's just my baseless speculation, but I really feel like that's what SMiLE was meant to be.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
The Demon
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« Reply #111 on: June 20, 2014, 01:55:32 PM »

Quote
EXACTLY!  And what happened to "Good Vibrations" would also have happened to "IIGS", "TOMP", "CIFOTM", and given enough time, "The Elements".  Sadly Brian couldn't stop fussing with "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and time ran out on the whole thing.

Not necessarily.  "Heroes and Villains" and "Vegetables" were revamped that much because they were considered singles.  "Great Shape," by comparison, is more of a castaway, part of "Heroes" rejected for other sections.  And prior to being considered a single, I wonder if that earlier "Vegetables" was the earth section of "The Elements."

Definitely agree with the 12 tracks.


Brian recorded in sections with the intent of assembling them into a series of DIFFERENT songs.  Smile's two singles were revamped BECAUSE they were singles.  They were CONSTANTLY revamped because Brian couldn't make a final decision on how to arrange the sections within them.

That is what I was saying.  Singles means more important and he spent more time on them.  I agree with you on the rest (thought I thought the "Cabinessence" versus were called "Home on the Range"), and yes--"Great Shape" certainly became something more than a section.  But I don't think Brian was doing to spend 6 months on the section "Barnyard."  He also didn't seem to revamp "Cabinessence" (the song) like "Heroes" or "Vegetables."  The point I was making was about his anxiety over the perfect single.
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« Reply #112 on: June 20, 2014, 07:50:57 PM »

Quote
EXACTLY!  And what happened to "Good Vibrations" would also have happened to "IIGS", "TOMP", "CIFOTM", and given enough time, "The Elements".  Sadly Brian couldn't stop fussing with "H&V" and "Vega-Tables" and time ran out on the whole thing.

Not necessarily.  "Heroes and Villains" and "Vegetables" were revamped that much because they were considered singles.  "Great Shape," by comparison, is more of a castaway, part of "Heroes" rejected for other sections.  And prior to being considered a single, I wonder if that earlier "Vegetables" was the earth section of "The Elements."

Definitely agree with the 12 tracks.



Brian recorded in sections with the intent of assembling them into a series of DIFFERENT songs.  Smile's two singles were revamped BECAUSE they were singles.  They were CONSTANTLY revamped because Brian couldn't make a final decision on how to arrange the sections within them.

That is what I was saying.  Singles means more important and he spent more time on them.  I agree with you on the rest (thought I thought the "Cabinessence" versus were called "Home on the Range"), and yes--"Great Shape" certainly became something more than a section.  But I don't think Brian was doing to spend 6 months on the section "Barnyard."  He also didn't seem to revamp "Cabinessence" (the song) like "Heroes" or "Vegetables."  The point I was making was about his anxiety over the perfect single.

Yes, "Home On The Range"!  I couldn't think of that for the life of me!  It was right there on the tip of my brain.
Good to know we're in agreement then. I just noticed the word I recolored in the above quote.  Had I seen it before....  Smiley

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« Reply #113 on: June 20, 2014, 09:00:32 PM »

I agree with a 12 song no suites Smile as the preferable one.  The problem with sequencing is that when you sequence chronologically ( worms/Cabinessence/Heroes) or even thematically, the sequence doesn't work musically.  If we're rejecting the suites of BWPS then there's no earthly reason Heroes Cab and. Worms have to go together or even be on the same side.  That gives the sequencer freedom to better sequence the tracks so the "highs" start and end the sides and there's a nicer flow with uptempo, mid tempo and slower tracks.
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« Reply #114 on: June 20, 2014, 09:24:15 PM »

I prefer the suites.

I was never a collector of bootlegs so prior to BWPS my only exposure was to the individual released songs.  With the exception of "Surf's Up" they seemed to lack context.  For whatever reason, BWPS really touched me.  For example, going from the hell of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" to "Blue Hawaii" always makes me optimistic.  For me, it is an uplifting piece of music that would be less if they were separate.
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In 1974 Mike Love's concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a comeback that rocked the music world.
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« Reply #115 on: June 20, 2014, 10:09:00 PM »

This is what I've been listening to ever since the Smile box came out. It's 54 minutes long, but it includes most of my favorite Smile fragments. It's dang tough to pare it down to a satisfying 35 or 40 minutes with so much great material to choose from, so this is my favorite sequence.

Side 1
(Prayer)
1)Worms (with insert of Holidays a la BWPS' On A Holiday)   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWCh80PqEes
2)H&V (a 5:46 Cantina version)
(George Fell Into His French Horn)
3)Surf's Up
4)Good Vibrations
5)Cabin Essence

Side 2
(He Gives Speeches)
1)Wonderful
2)CIFOTM (comprised of Look/CIFOTM)
3)Wind Chimes
4)The Elements ( comprised of Second Day-Air/Mrs, O'Leary-Fire/Dada-Water/IWBA & Workshop- Earth
(Brian Falls Into A Piano)
5)Vege-Tables
(H&V Reprise)
6)IIGS (comprised of IIGS/Barnyard/Do A Lot)
7)The Old Master Painter (comprised of TOMP/YWMS/My Children Were Raised/Barnshine)

So, there are the 12 proper tracks from the back cover slicks and 5 short unlisted links. I've been very satisfied with it. Maybe some day more Smile tapes will come to light, but this will do until that day comes.
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« Reply #116 on: June 21, 2014, 01:35:57 PM »

I prefer the suites.

I was never a collector of bootlegs so prior to BWPS my only exposure was to the individual released songs.  With the exception of "Surf's Up" they seemed to lack context.  For whatever reason, BWPS really touched me.  For example, going from the hell of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" to "Blue Hawaii" always makes me optimistic.  For me, it is an uplifting piece of music that would be less if they were separate.
Six sentences that say it all for me. :=)
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« Reply #117 on: June 21, 2014, 06:15:33 PM »

Birth-death-and rebirth....That's 3 movements.
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« Reply #118 on: June 21, 2014, 06:52:13 PM »

Earth, fire, water. Fragments, sections. 12 separate tracks.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what shes like, and I can feel how right shed be for me. Its weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what shes picking up from me. I hope its good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #119 on: June 21, 2014, 08:09:51 PM »

Earth, fire, water. Fragments, sections. 12 separate tracks.

Whoa, whoa whoa. What are you saying here? That the Elements weren't a single movement, but that Earth, Fire and Water were the three movements themselves, that Smile would have been structured that way (albeit with just 12 tracks)?

Even if that's not what you meant, I'm going to be up all night thinking about it...
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« Reply #120 on: June 21, 2014, 09:04:10 PM »

Smile is whatever you want it to be. Howsat? Don't stay up too late. I've been listening to Smile since about..........1982? And now I'm all Smiled out.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what shes like, and I can feel how right shed be for me. Its weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what shes picking up from me. I hope its good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #121 on: June 22, 2014, 01:06:19 AM »

I still can't believe Camp Brian basically validated (but didn't really) the "SMiLE" spelling. MAKES ME WANT TO HEAVE. FROM MY ASS.

sh*t FROM A DOG'S ASS
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« Reply #122 on: June 22, 2014, 04:22:51 AM »

Birth-death-and rebirth....That's 3 movements.


That's three themes, among others in the. Smile songs.
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« Reply #123 on: June 22, 2014, 04:41:06 AM »

In the years after TSS I worked on my preferred Smile mix which is quite close to definitive for me right now. It is in mono, it contains the tracks on the original back cover, with some very small differences, but most importantly contains quite 'authentic' or in any case as complete as possible versions of all the tracks. So, all the tracks are presented in a way that they were possibly going to be released in 1967. The dilemma is always Heroes And Villains and The Old Master Painter: if I'm using the 'Cantina mix', I can't use the fade-out in TOMP. So, my best option is most of the time to use the TSS mix of HAV, which isn't really what was going to be released in 1967, but it is the most complete-sounding version, incorporating most of the sections, and I can use the fade-out in TOMP which makes it sound like a complete track after all.

01. Prayer
02. Heroes And Villains
03. Do You Like Worms (with the original fade-out restored)
04. Wonderful
05. Child Is Father Of The Man (3-minute mono mix reconstruction, or the TSS version without the opening section)
06. The Old Master Painter (first bars restored using the Sessions tack)
07. Cabin Essence (TSS mono mix with some re-editing)
08. Good Vibrations (single version)
09. Wind Chimes (re-edited to match the original mono mix, with the first bars and the fade restored)
10. Fire (the UM 17 mono mix, no fly-ins, and including the Heroes And Villains intro)
11. Vega-Tables (TSS mono mix, first bars restored using the vinyl single mix)
12. Surf's Up

Sometimes I'm leaning towards including tracks as I Wanna Be Around or I'm In Great Shape, but the 'unfinished' feel of those tracks works better in a bigger compilation, including all the BWPS tracks and more.
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« Reply #124 on: June 22, 2014, 04:42:43 AM »

Quote



"I'm In Great Shape" (SONG) = the individual SECTIONS of "I'm In Great Shape", "I Wanna Be Around (Friday Night)", and "Workshop".
"The Old Master Painter" SONG * = the individual SECTIONS of "Barnyard", "The Old Master Painter", "You Were My Sunshine", and "Barnshine fade (False Barnyard)"

It's no different any of the other songs that were recorded modularly, except that they weren't assembled in



* Which was referred to in the Priess book as "The Barnyard Suite".  I prefer the other title, as that's what Capitol printed on the album slicks.

You bring up an issue at the core of much of the confusion about Smile, sections vs. songs, and this is only amplified when section titles appeared as track titles on the back cover list.  That makes us assume that Brian (assuming Brian was directing Diane or Carl or whomever wrote the list) was planning to turn those sections into songs.  But of course he never did so that leaves room for endless speculation as to what those sections may have been filled out with to make them into songs.

You've speculated that the Barnyard suite referred to by Preiss is Old Master Painter/Sunshine with Barnyard at the beginning.  It seems far more likely Barnyard suite is I'm in Great Shape with Barnyard as the fade.  After all,  barnyard was part of Shape when it was in Heroes, so wouldn't those two sections have remained linked when taken out to be a separate song?  I Wanna Be Around/FN has been suggested as another section for Shape, but I find evidence for that to be less than compelling although certainly possible.  There's another section linked with Heroes that would fit in well with the theme of Shape - Do A Lot.  Before it eventually ended up in the new single construction of Vegetables.
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