*Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread

[the captain]

Apologies if this has been posted already. December Las Vegas date to be filmed for AXS TV special:

http://www.venetian.com/entertainment/shows/brian-wilson.html

Soundstage = Joe "MORE AUTOTUNE !!!" Thomas.

Brian's vocals are too sketchy in a live setting to realistically expect anyone to leave them alone in a live recording, so something--auto tune or rerecording or whatever--would be likely regardless.  (Not a knock on Brian, just the reality of "live" recording these past few, decades. And BW is on the shakier side of the pitch and confidence spectrum.) Hopefully the JT Delight has been retired for more tasteful treatment, though.

Realistically, the special isn't even going to have live vocals -- even processed ones. It will be BW and co miming to the album tracks. Mark my words.

Ugh. If that turns out to be the case, guess I'm glad not to have AXS TV.

[Amanda Hart]

Realistically, the special isn't even going to have live vocals -- even processed ones. It will be BW and co miming to the album tracks. Mark my words.

I would be shocked if it was anything but that

[Gohi]

New guests confirmed for the album too -- Capitol Cities and Mark Isham.

Very interesting choices.

[ToneBender631]

Apologies if this has been posted already. December Las Vegas date to be filmed for AXS TV special:

http://www.venetian.com/entertainment/shows/brian-wilson.html

Soundstage = Joe "MORE AUTOTUNE !!!" Thomas.

Brian's vocals are too sketchy in a live setting to realistically expect anyone to leave them alone in a live recording, so something--auto tune or rerecording or whatever--would be likely regardless.  (Not a knock on Brian, just the reality of "live" recording these past few, decades. And BW is on the shakier side of the pitch and confidence spectrum.) Hopefully the JT Delight has been retired for more tasteful treatment, though.

Realistically, the special isn't even going to have live vocals -- even processed ones. It will be BW and co miming to the album tracks. Mark my words.

So, we expect a whole show featuring a host of incredibly talented singers, that people will be paying to see, will be mimed the whole way through? It's more trouble to have the band sync'ed up to pre-recorded tracks and have the singers miming than it would be to simply have the only shaky vocalist of the group (Brian) overdub new vocals in any shaky spots in post-production.  

[Wirestone]

Look at the Imagination and TLOS specials -- in each case, Brian's vocals on the released products were more than likely from the album versions. I have no doubt that in each case they performed live for an audience. But through the magic of postproduction, they were able to sync it up with existing tracks. Given that this is album promotion, I would just be shocked if that didn't happen again to some degree.

[Loaf]

Mark Isham is great. I like his work with Joni Mitchell.

it's interesting the credits are going with people like Mark Isham and Dean Parks instead of using Probyn and the usual gang.

[Wirestone]

Mark Isham is great. I like his work with Joni Mitchell.

it's interesting the credits are going with people like Mark Isham and Dean Parks instead of using Probyn and the usual gang.

I would be very shocked if members of the touring band do not appear on the album. But it will be much more like TWGMTR, in which they're added as accents, rather than the core group of each track.

And as for the TV special idea, it's not that I don't think Brian shouldn't play live, and it's not that I don't think he has a lot to offer in that context. It's just that these things come across as incredibly forced with someone like Brian. He so seldom does well in one off appearances.

[Rich Panteluk]

I suspect the live concert performance will be live but that the Soundstage broadcast will be more along the lines of some of the "live" promo recordings (NPR, the official live product) that used some autotuned post production work as well as incorporating some of the actual material that was recorded for No Pier Pressure.  They wouldn't have a concert that people paid money to see - ONLY mime to prerecorded tracks methinks.  Anyone got tickets or planning on going to give us the full details?

If you listen to some "live" recordings of Do It Again and the song That's Why God Made The Radio from the C50 Tour some elements of the Walmart C50 rerecorded version of Do It Again and the album version of That's Why God Made The Radio were used (or blended back) in the presentation of Joe Thomas' live recordings.  Curious to see how this plays out.  

In other news, I am very happy to hear the Bob Clearmountain is mixing the studio album, but being in charge of the mix does not mean that the album won't be a festival of the over use of autotune (ala That's Why God Made The Radio or the Live C50 recordings) as the autotune is often applied far before the final mixing.  Sadly, that means Bob Clearmountain may not have the (or much) opportunity to make the autotuning more tasteful or reduce it, but rather just be able to control how it is mixed.  I hope people aren't getting their hopes up that Brian's vocals will be radically different to how they were presented on the TWGMTR.  I suspect they will sound quite similar to the last BB album (which I loved btw, but would really have prefered a more organic sounding presentation of the vocals like was used in Al's Postcard From California album).  I enjoyed Brian's contribution to the Peter Hollens track but there is no denying that Robo-Brian is in full effect if that may be any indicator.

[Ray Lawlor]

Wrong.  It's all being recorded live. Brian , band and guests have 5 days of rehearsals scheduled the week leading up to the filming; both in LA as well as Las Vegas. Like the Radio City Tribute show; rehearse for 5 days , film it live in front of an audience.

[Gohi]

Wrong.  It's all being recorded live. Brian , band and guests have 5 days of rehearsals scheduled the week leading up to the filming; both in LA as well as Las Vegas. Like the Radio City Tribute show; rehearse for 5 days , film it live in front of an audience.

I'm pretty sure the above post said as much, unless I am misunderstanding you.

[Wirestone]

Wrong.  It's all being recorded live. Brian , band and guests have 5 days of rehearsals scheduled the week leading up to the filming; both in LA as well as Las Vegas. Like the Radio City Tribute show; rehearse for 5 days , film it live in front of an audience.

Good to know, Ray. That radio city performance indeed is one of the few one off appearances with Brian the turned out  really well. His L&M from that night is my definitive version.

[Ray Lawlor]

Wrong.  It's all being recorded live. Brian , band and guests have 5 days of rehearsals scheduled the week leading up to the filming; both in LA as well as Las Vegas. Like the Radio City Tribute show; rehearse for 5 days , film it live in front of an audience.

I'm pretty sure the above post said as much, unless I am misunderstanding you.

That post was not there as I hit send

[Loaf]

Mark Isham is great. I like his work with Joni Mitchell.

it's interesting the credits are going with people like Mark Isham and Dean Parks instead of using Probyn and the usual gang.

I would be very shocked if members of the touring band do not appear on the album. But it will be much more like TWGMTR, in which they're added as accents, rather than the core group of each track.

And as for the TV special idea, it's not that I don't think Brian shouldn't play live, and it's not that I don't think he has a lot to offer in that context. It's just that these things come across as incredibly forced with someone like Brian. He so seldom does well in one off appearances.

Yes. i find it quite exciting that Brian is not just relying on his usual gang to fill in all the parts, and maybe has a specific something in mind, which is why he's going for Isham and Parks. When Brian gets something specific in mind, rather than just "will this do?" the results are usually special

And i'll add to the love for Bob Clearmountain. The last BBs album with a name mixer, Al Schmitt, sounded great. Caveat: not saying it was all Al's work, but it has his name on and it sounds great.

[Rich Panteluk]

The "Wrong" was not aimed at me then, Ray?  Hope not.  Wouldn't wanted to have offended / upset you in any way, merely mentioning that often post production work occurs on "live" efforts (Brian and darn near everyone else in the music industry).  Your posts have been the highlight of this board for me (aside from your beer ones that do nothing for me - as I am a rum and whiskey man myself lol).  Sincerely though please keep posting often Ray as it is so refreshing to have someone close to Brian who can let us know when our speculation is way off base.  Also it is very reassuring to know that Brian has good friends like you in his corner!  Cheers!

[guitarfool2002]

Since Dean Parks has recorded tracks for the album, it would not only make sense to have him make some live appearances but it would be a terrific thing too, as he is rightfully so considered one of the finest studio guitarists in the business and has been for several decades. In the business he has the nickname (as said by others) as "The Dean" of Hollywood guitarists, and has a resume of high profile film and studio credits at least a few miles long.

When I saw that Dean, Kenny Aronoff, and Jim Keltner had done tracks for the album, as a musician I was beyond excited to hear what they bring to the tracks. With Dean in particular, he does live dates but you often don't see him featured on stage especially when he's playing various awards shows and the like...millions hear him all over TV and film scores but you don't get to actually see and watch him play as often, so this is a pretty cool thing.

[guitarfool2002]

Wrong.  It's all being recorded live. Brian , band and guests have 5 days of rehearsals scheduled the week leading up to the filming; both in LA as well as Las Vegas. Like the Radio City Tribute show; rehearse for 5 days , film it live in front of an audience.

I'm pretty sure the above post said as much, unless I am misunderstanding you.

The above post(s) first suggested it would be a lip-synched affair where the studio tracks were going to be mimed on stage, then it was speculated that the show would be live but the studio tracks might be dubbed in during post, then it was speculated that the show(s) would be live but they'd do this and that to the audio and synching...etc.

I don't recall anything being posted about calling a week's worth of rehearsals leading up to the show until Ray's post, of course a band and guests wouldn't have rehearsals for a live show if the actual show was going to be close to what was suggested previously.

[Ray Lawlor]

The "Wrong" was not aimed at me then, Ray?  Hope not.  Wouldn't wanted to have offended / upset you in any way, merely mentioning that often post production work occurs on "live" efforts (Brian and darn near everyone else in the music industry).  Your posts have been the highlight of this board for me (aside from your beer ones that do nothing for me - as I am a rum and whiskey man myself lol).  Sincerely though please keep posting often Ray as it is so refreshing to have someone close to Brian who can let us know when our speculation is way off base.  Also it is very reassuring to know that Brian has good friends like you in his corner!  Cheers!

Rich; hell no , it was aimed at the topic itself...that the concert would be lipsynced....

[Mikie]

The "Wrong" was not aimed at me then, Ray?  Hope not.  Wouldn't wanted to have offended / upset you in any way, merely mentioning that often post production work occurs on "live" efforts (Brian and darn near everyone else in the music industry).  Your posts have been the highlight of this board for me (aside from your beer ones that do nothing for me - as I am a rum and whiskey man myself lol).  Sincerely though please keep posting often Ray as it is so refreshing to have someone close to Brian who can let us know when our speculation is way off base.  Also it is very reassuring to know that Brian has good friends like you in his corner!  Cheers!

C'mon, Rich! Damn it! You're gonna drive Ray from the board! 

[Rich Panteluk]

Don't stir up trouble Mikie or I'm gonna have to show up at your house again and this time I'll leave with some your rare stuff!  :-)

And thanks for the clarification Ray!

[guitarfool2002]

In other news, I am very happy to hear the Bob Clearmountain is mixing the studio album, but being in charge of the mix does not mean that the album won't be a festival of the over use of autotune (ala That's Why God Made The Radio or the Live C50 recordings) as the autotune is often applied far before the final mixing.  Sadly, that means Bob Clearmountain may not have the (or much) opportunity to make the autotuning more tasteful or reduce it, but rather just be able to control how it is mixed.  I hope people aren't getting their hopes up that Brian's vocals will be radically different to how they were presented on the TWGMTR.  I suspect they will sound quite similar to the last BB album (which I loved btw, but would really have prefered a more organic sounding presentation of the vocals like was used in Al's Postcard From California album).  I enjoyed Brian's contribution to the Peter Hollens track but there is no denying that Robo-Brian is in full effect if that may be any indicator.

I just want to touch on this, saying from the get-go that this is my pure speculation on what it will actually sound like in the end as we have not actually heard the album.

There was the Mix magazine article I posted here yesterday where Brian's engineer Wesley at Ocean Way detailed the signal chain and the process in which Brian's vocals were recorded. He was specific that a Neumann U47 was used (for those unfamiliar that's the legendary microphone pictured in dozens of Beatles studio session photos at Abbey Road and one of the better vocal mics of all time), he was specific that they ran through an LA-2A (a classic and now-collectible/expensive Bill Putnam UA outboard signal processor from the 60's), an 1176 (another classic 60's Putnam UA device that's been used on millions of recordings), and through their Focusrite board (which United/Ocean Way is known for), and then specifically treated with reverbs and delays via the UAD, which is basically Universal Audio's library of classic and modern sounds that can give very minute control over the various parameters you can apply to those effects like reverb/delay which they mentioned, depending on how you want them to react to the signal you're sending into it or "effecting".

He then talked about EQ, and said Brian would EQ himself at the mic when cutting vocals by moving and changing his position at the mic and his proximity to or from the mic in order to shape the sound...*that* is a somewhat old-school technique which you also hear in full effect when you listen to certain 60's studio reels where Brian would tell a woodwind player to back off or come closer to the mic, not always for volume balance but also to affect the frequencies being captured by that mic. Same thing they used to do with positioning mics in front of guitar or bass amps, what you hear on tape was often the result of moving the mic inches away or closer to the sound source in order to best capture the frequencies. I've seen as often in the years since the engineer find the speaker cone and put a 57 or an equivalent in front of it and just start recording, ostensibly to be adjusted and fixed later in the process.

They were EQ'ing from the floor, as some used to call it: Old-school and terrific. Get a good sound from the source, have it sit into the tracks you're recording, the stuff can mix itself without obsessive tinkering and running through Aphexes or what have you unless you want that. The vocalist...who in this case is producing as well...could basically EQ himself by adjusting his positioning at the mic and how he's doing the part.

I mention all that to suggest (and speculate, to be clear) if the "big picture" of these productions involved simply tracking a vocal with an eye toward adding all kinds of simulators, plug-ins, and the like afterward, such specific details and attention would not have been given to the recording of those tracks. I have a processor on my own limited budget which has the ability to "model" almost a full mic closet full of vintage mics like the U47, the AKG C12, even classic ribbon sounds and then send that through modeling versions of the LA-2A, 1176, Pultec, and then send it through a convolution reverb simulator where I could summon the echo chambers of legendary studios past and present, or create them on my own. It also has presets for "female" or "male" vocals, which can call up a full chain of processors and effects and mic models to best suit those frequencies by pressing a button.

And the option would be, as many producers and artists may choose to do, to simply stick any mic in front of the vocalist and proceed to process and simulate the signal chain digitally so you could replicate the sound of Abbey Road 1967 if the vocalist were a Beatles freak. In this case, it seems they were going for a specific sound while recording vocals, and getting that also involved Brian adjusting his singing at the microphone in order to get the EQ he wanted to hear at the initial stage of the process.

Saying all that, we'll have to of course wait to hear what the results will be on the final product. I'm beyond anxious to hear it. But from the process described by the engineer who worked these vocal sessions, they took specific care in getting those vocals recorded a certain way, using certain techniques and equipment, and that stands as how the recordings were done at the source (and from the source). If decisions are made later in the process which would effectively void and negate the care taken to get those specific vocal sounds, or mask those original source sounds entirely, well, I just don't know...The results of this will be available soon. 

[joshferrell]

I hope we finally get that echoed Wall of sound feel like they did with the Paley stuff in order to make it sound like "Today" or "Summer Days"... it doesn't have to be in mono, although an alt mono mix would be cool to have on a bonus disc...

[Andrew G. Doe]

The results of this will be available soon. 

If three/four/five months is your idea of "soon" then, why, yes indeed. 

[guitarfool2002]

The results of this will be available soon. 

If three/four/five months is your idea of "soon" then, why, yes indeed. 

How about "somewhat soon"?     Or I'd take "somewhere in the neighborhood of soon".  The anticipation is getting the best of me.

[SMiLE Brian]

I want an AGD guest vocal at the M&B Christmas shows to pass the time.

[the captain]

The results of this will be available soon. 

If three/four/five months is your idea of "soon" then, why, yes indeed. 

How about "somewhat soon"?     Or I'd take "somewhere in the neighborhood of soon".  The anticipation is getting the best of me.

What, like 1/320th of our lives (assuming 80ish years)? Soonish sounds about right, relatively speaking.

Plus, we're bound to get an advance single, right? RIGHT?? (Please??)