*Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread

[the captain]

I think what charts well isn't the same as what's popular (as Wirestone's youtube tallies show). People who still buy albums trend older. So it's not surprising they buy Petty, Clapton, etc. I don't doubt a decent chart position for Wilson, assuming it's marketed well. But the reality is that most younger people just don't buy much music.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

Brian Wilson presents Smile charted at 13 in 2004, which would easily equate with a top 10 or top 5 album these days.

McCartney's latest, "New" hit No. 3. And that only sold 67,000 copies. "Weird Al" broke 100,000 his first week.

As for Brian's latest, I would say the Top 10 is possible, given the market today. A lot depends on the week it comes out.

Singles will absolutely be released, given the guest artists. My guess is more than one.

BWPS was a different situation if you ask me.  It was something that had been anticipated for a long time.  I didn't realize McCartney's album hit number 3.

[?]

A couple thoughts on the previous posts...  I don't think you can begin to compare this album to BWPS.  That record had nearly 40 years of publicity behind it and was coming off of a very well received live premiere.  This is a totally different situation.  I know a lot of people here don't want to hear this, but Tom Petty, Paul McCartney, Weird Al, etc. are all much bigger names than Brian Wilson.  Brian's brand value as a commercial entity is the Beach Boys.  Alone he's basically a cult artist.  I just can't believe that fans of Guest Artist X will be lining up in droves to pick up this album.  I think the best you can hope for is them scoring some placement in the On-Demand chart and selling a couple extra tracks.  Again, I'm not saying this album will do badly, far from it.  But I'm not expecting it to be huge either.

[Wirestone]

I think what charts well isn't the same as what's popular (as Wirestone's youtube tallies show). People who still buy albums trend older. So it's not surprising they buy Petty, Clapton, etc. I don't doubt a decent chart position for Wilson, assuming it's marketed well. But the reality is that most younger people just don't buy much music.

Actually, all of those folks I mentioned have done exceptionally well on the album charts.

Huge No. 1 albums for the first two, a top 10 for Zooey and No. 2 for Kasey.

Yes, there has been a certain amount of decoupling that allows older artists to do better, no question. But artists with mega-YouTube views do sell a bunch of records.

[Wirestone]

A couple thoughts on the previous posts...  I don't think you can begin to compare this album to BWPS.  That record had nearly 40 years of publicity behind it and was coming off of a very well received live premiere.  This is a totally different situation.  I know a lot of people here don't want to hear this, but Tom Petty, Paul McCartney, Weird Al, etc. are all much bigger names than Brian Wilson.  Brian's brand value as a commercial entity is the Beach Boys.  Alone he's basically a cult artist.  I just can't believe that fans of Guest Artist X will be lining up in droves to pick up this album.  I think the best you can hope for is them scoring some placement in the On-Demand chart and selling a couple extra tracks.  Again, I'm not saying this album will do badly, far from it.  But I'm not expecting it to be huge either.

You also can't compare 2004 to 2014. The music landscape is totally transformed.

And the major label behind Brian's record has mapped out a strategy using people that have _decimated_ Clapton, Petty, Weird Al and McCartney in sales over the last couple of years. Not just on social media and YouTube, where it's no contest, but also in actual sales in stores.

[Dancing Bear]

If you're going to be on a major label, you have to adjust and market differently. The guests are absolutely key to this album's strategy. If it works (a big if, but still), it could be the biggest record Brian has released commercially since the '60s.

Are you saying that the young and trendy guests concept is a commercial one, not artistic?

[Wirestone]

If you're going to be on a major label, you have to adjust and market differently. The guests are absolutely key to this album's strategy. If it works (a big if, but still), it could be the biggest record Brian has released commercially since the '60s.

Are you saying that the young and trendy guests concept is a commercial one, not artistic?

I think commercial and artistic interests have intersected many times in Brian and the Beach Boys' history. Sometimes for good and sometimes for ill.

Ray has mentioned several times that Brian wants, above all, to hear his music played on the radio. I think he's genuine in that desire, and I think that if his record company suggests working with artists that his teenage daughters have been blasting in the house (and which he might well have enjoyed) he's more than likely to try some collaborations with them.

And it might not work. Who knows? But Brian is above all a pop (read "popular") musician. If Brian was truly interested in just putting out anything he wrote, dozens of indie labels would have leaped at the chance. And I can almost guarantee you that folks have suggested this path to Brian and Melinda repeatedly over the years. But he wants a big audience, and the major labels keep signing him up.

I don't necessarily agree with that path. But it is what it is, and this project will be whatever it is.

[guitarfool2002]

If the phone rings or an email appears in your inbox and it's either an invitation to work on a song in studio with Brian Wilson, play a guest spot at a show with Mike Love, or perform or record in some way with Al or David, would you ask "Is this a commercial or an artistic concept?"    Seriously.

[Wirestone]

Plus, this should all really push Brian and Weird Al to work together again!

[Dancing Bear]

If you're going to be on a major label, you have to adjust and market differently. The guests are absolutely key to this album's strategy. If it works (a big if, but still), it could be the biggest record Brian has released commercially since the '60s.

Are you saying that the young and trendy guests concept is a commercial one, not artistic?

I think commercial and artistic interests have intersected many times in Brian and the Beach Boys' history. Sometimes for good and sometimes for ill.

Ray has mentioned several times that Brian wants, above all, to hear his music played on the radio. I think he's genuine in that desire, and I think that if his record company suggests working with artists that his teenage daughters have been blasting in the house (and which he might well have enjoyed) he's more than likely to try some collaborations with them.

And it might not work. Who knows? But Brian is above all a pop (read "popular") musician. If Brian was truly interested in just putting out anything he wrote, dozens of indie labels would have leaped at the chance. And I can almost guarantee you that folks have suggested this path to Brian and Melinda repeatedly over the years. But he wants a big audience, and the major labels keep signing him up.

I don't necessarily agree with that path. But it is what it is, and this project will be whatever it is.

Fair enough. We agree that it's a calculated move.

[guitarfool2002]

If you're going to be on a major label, you have to adjust and market differently. The guests are absolutely key to this album's strategy. If it works (a big if, but still), it could be the biggest record Brian has released commercially since the '60s.

Are you saying that the young and trendy guests concept is a commercial one, not artistic?

I think commercial and artistic interests have intersected many times in Brian and the Beach Boys' history. Sometimes for good and sometimes for ill.

Ray has mentioned several times that Brian wants, above all, to hear his music played on the radio. I think he's genuine in that desire, and I think that if his record company suggests working with artists that his teenage daughters have been blasting in the house (and which he might well have enjoyed) he's more than likely to try some collaborations with them.

And it might not work. Who knows? But Brian is above all a pop (read "popular") musician. If Brian was truly interested in just putting out anything he wrote, dozens of indie labels would have leaped at the chance. And I can almost guarantee you that folks have suggested this path to Brian and Melinda repeatedly over the years. But he wants a big audience, and the major labels keep signing him up.

I don't necessarily agree with that path. But it is what it is, and this project will be whatever it is.

Fair enough. We agree that it's a calculated move.

What does it matter if it is or it isn't?

[Dancing Bear]

If the phone rings or an email appears in your inbox and it's either an invitation to work on a song in studio with Brian Wilson, play a guest spot at a show with Mike Love, or perform or record in some way with Al or David, would you ask "Is this a commercial or an artistic concept?"    Seriously.

It depends on the angle. I'm sure Zooey had the time of her life guesting. We're debating the motivations to make the call, not how the person who got invited should feel.  

But hey, a calculated marketing move doesn't make a an album better or worse per se. I'm sure the guests will sing well and in tune and who knows, maybe transcend the role of young-trendy-guest.

(I hope the second paragraph answers your question)

[guitarfool2002]

I'd suggest anyone else debating or even factoring in the motivations behind making an invitation call could probably save their money and not buy the album when it comes out. 

Feels like the dating scene, where the fact someone makes a call and invites another person to dinner isn't as important or enjoyable as trying to figure out why they called on a lunch break at 1PM instead of after work 9PM, or why the invitation was just for dinner and not a weekend getaway in the Hamptons...all that jazz.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Clapton and Petty are both mature (emotionally mature, not just in age) artists who appeal to a mature audience with a MOR kind of easy-on-the-ear melodicism.

The Beach Boys are a kind of gimmicky fun-in-the-sun act with hawaiian shirts, which is a popular angle to have but kind of limiting. The Brian Wilson brand seems somehow to be less than that. You take away the fun-in-the-sun angle, and what's left? Brian Wilson previously tried to take the Clapton/Petty mature route with Imagination (which i really like), but has since gone back to original material of cluttered plasticky pop songs. I think a core audience of Brian Wilson fans will buy the album and because record sales for the more superficial stars have fallen away, this will boost BW's chart placing.

It could do well. It could stall at #28.

Maybe i'm just in a bad mood.

On past form, stalling at #28 would have to be regarded as a reasonable success, at least in chart terms:

Brian Wilson - 54
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times - did not chart
Imagination - 88
Live At The Roxy - dnc
Pet Sounds Live - dnc
Getting In Over My Head - 100
Brian Wilson Presents Smile - 13
What I Really Want For Christmas - 200
That Lucky Old Sun - 21
Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin - 26
In The Key Of Disney - 83

I'm anticipating this album keenly. I think the discussion it will provoke here will be unparalleled.

[Dancing Bear]

I'd suggest anyone else debating or even factoring in the motivations behind making an invitation call could probably save their money and not buy the album when it comes out. 

No deal. You'll read my obnoxious opinion about the new CD, like or not. 

[Wirestone]

On past form, stalling at #28 would have to be regarded as a reasonable success, at least in chart terms:

Brian Wilson - 54
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times - did not chart
Imagination - 88
Live At The Roxy - dnc
Pet Sounds Live - dnc
Getting In Over My Head - 100
Brian Wilson Presents Smile - 13
What I Really Want For Christmas - 200
That Lucky Old Sun - 21
Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin - 26
In The Key Of Disney - 83

I'm anticipating this album keenly. I think the discussion it will provoke here will be unparalleled.

An interesting exercise would be getting the actual sales numbers for each of those BW records and seeing what, for example, that 21 for TLOS would translate into on today's charts.

[guitarfool2002]

I'd suggest anyone else debating or even factoring in the motivations behind making an invitation call could probably save their money and not buy the album when it comes out. 

No deal. You'll read my obnoxious opinion about the new CD, like or not. 

Call it a deal, I can work with that. As long as I don't have to pay anything to read the opinion. 

[Loaf]

On past form, stalling at #28 would have to be regarded as a reasonable success, at least in chart terms:

Brian Wilson - 54
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times - did not chart
Imagination - 88
Live At The Roxy - dnc
Pet Sounds Live - dnc
Getting In Over My Head - 100
Brian Wilson Presents Smile - 13
What I Really Want For Christmas - 200
That Lucky Old Sun - 21
Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin - 26
In The Key Of Disney - 83

I'm anticipating this album keenly. I think the discussion it will provoke here will be unparalleled.

An interesting exercise would be getting the actual sales numbers for each of those BW records and seeing what, for example, that 21 for TLOS would translate into on today's charts.

I was thinking about that. BW88 sold something like 500,000 in the US and only made #54. That many sales these days cause a revolution. The new one won't sell near that worldwide.

But i'm still looking forward to it, I think it'll be the last chance for a full-on Brian Wilson album where he can spend this much time, with these guests, on a major label. Although who's to say that an album of home demos with Brian writing and playing everything wouldn't be better?

Bring it on

[donald]

A.    When is this expected to hit the record shops?
B.    Will I be able to drive up to Best Buy and purchase the CD?
C.    Should I purchase one of those great little BOSE Wave players before listening the first time?
D.    Will I be notified of the release in my monthly AARP magazine?
E.    Will I be able to listen to this on the top 40 like I used to listen to the Beach Boys?
F.     Will Brian lip synch the hits on Bandstand like he used to?

[The Cincinnati Kid]

We might get a release date for the album at the film festival.

[the captain]

I think what charts well isn't the same as what's popular (as Wirestone's youtube tallies show). People who still buy albums trend older. So it's not surprising they buy Petty, Clapton, etc. I don't doubt a decent chart position for Wilson, assuming it's marketed well. But the reality is that most younger people just don't buy much music.

Actually, all of those folks I mentioned have done exceptionally well on the album charts.

Huge No. 1 albums for the first two, a top 10 for Zooey and No. 2 for Kasey.

Yes, there has been a certain amount of decoupling that allows older artists to do better, no question. But artists with mega-YouTube views do sell a bunch of records.

Maybe I should have been more clear, but I wasn't hinting those artists don't do well on the charts, but rather what does well on the charts at any given time isn't necessarily a good way to show what is popular overall. Album sales are one (ever decreasing) slice of the measurement toolbox.

Also, it's Kacey (Musgraves), not Kasey.

[The Shift]

If you're going to be on a major label, you have to adjust and market differently. The guests are absolutely key to this album's strategy. If it works (a big if, but still), it could be the biggest record Brian has released commercially since the '60s.

Are you saying that the young and trendy guests concept is a commercial one, not artistic?

I think commercial and artistic interests have intersected many times in Brian and the Beach Boys' history. Sometimes for good and sometimes for ill.

Ray has mentioned several times that Brian wants, above all, to hear his music played on the radio. I think he's genuine in that desire, and I think that if his record company suggests working with artists that his teenage daughters have been blasting in the house (and which he might well have enjoyed) he's more than likely to try some collaborations with them.

And it might not work. Who knows? But Brian is above all a pop (read "popular") musician. If Brian was truly interested in just putting out anything he wrote, dozens of indie labels would have leaped at the chance. And I can almost guarantee you that folks have suggested this path to Brian and Melinda repeatedly over the years. But he wants a big audience, and the major labels keep signing him up.

I don't necessarily agree with that path. But it is what it is, and this project will be whatever it is.

Fair enough. We agree that it's a calculated move.

What does it matter if it is or it isn't?

Working with Tony Asher was a calculated move, as was hooking up with the no-name Van Dyke Parks. He coulda stuck with the successful  Sun, Surf, Love/Christian/Usher formula…

[guitarfool2002]

If you're going to be on a major label, you have to adjust and market differently. The guests are absolutely key to this album's strategy. If it works (a big if, but still), it could be the biggest record Brian has released commercially since the '60s.

Are you saying that the young and trendy guests concept is a commercial one, not artistic?

I think commercial and artistic interests have intersected many times in Brian and the Beach Boys' history. Sometimes for good and sometimes for ill.

Ray has mentioned several times that Brian wants, above all, to hear his music played on the radio. I think he's genuine in that desire, and I think that if his record company suggests working with artists that his teenage daughters have been blasting in the house (and which he might well have enjoyed) he's more than likely to try some collaborations with them.

And it might not work. Who knows? But Brian is above all a pop (read "popular") musician. If Brian was truly interested in just putting out anything he wrote, dozens of indie labels would have leaped at the chance. And I can almost guarantee you that folks have suggested this path to Brian and Melinda repeatedly over the years. But he wants a big audience, and the major labels keep signing him up.

I don't necessarily agree with that path. But it is what it is, and this project will be whatever it is.

Fair enough. We agree that it's a calculated move.

What does it matter if it is or it isn't?

Working with Tony Asher was a calculated move, as was hooking up with the no-name Van Dyke Parks. He coulda stuck with the successful  Sun, Surf, Love/Christian/Usher formula…

Haha! Don't leave out Murry, as Brian can be heard calling him out on tape: "So you want us to have the 409 sound on Help Me Rhonda?" "Brian, I'm leaving..."

Who would have thought the entertainment business was calculated? 

[?]

A couple thoughts on the previous posts...  I don't think you can begin to compare this album to BWPS.  That record had nearly 40 years of publicity behind it and was coming off of a very well received live premiere.  This is a totally different situation.  I know a lot of people here don't want to hear this, but Tom Petty, Paul McCartney, Weird Al, etc. are all much bigger names than Brian Wilson.  Brian's brand value as a commercial entity is the Beach Boys.  Alone he's basically a cult artist.  I just can't believe that fans of Guest Artist X will be lining up in droves to pick up this album.  I think the best you can hope for is them scoring some placement in the On-Demand chart and selling a couple extra tracks.  Again, I'm not saying this album will do badly, far from it.  But I'm not expecting it to be huge either.

You also can't compare 2004 to 2014. The music landscape is totally transformed.

And the major label behind Brian's record has mapped out a strategy using people that have _decimated_ Clapton, Petty, Weird Al and McCartney in sales over the last couple of years. Not just on social media and YouTube, where it's no contest, but also in actual sales in stores.

I get that but at the end of the day it isn't their album.  The name on the marquee is still Brian Wilson.  The fan base of the guests skews young and I don't think it's likely they're going to be getting excited about an album by a guy in his 70's.  It doesn't matter how many coats of paint you slap on the house, you're still trying to sell a college kid on moving in to a retirement community.

As to why the guests are there, if the consideration is artistic then good for Brian for trying something different, especially knowing that it's an approach that's going to turn off a vocal segment of his audience.  If the consideration is commercial, I believe they have miscalculated.

[guitarfool2002]

A couple thoughts on the previous posts...  I don't think you can begin to compare this album to BWPS.  That record had nearly 40 years of publicity behind it and was coming off of a very well received live premiere.  This is a totally different situation.  I know a lot of people here don't want to hear this, but Tom Petty, Paul McCartney, Weird Al, etc. are all much bigger names than Brian Wilson.  Brian's brand value as a commercial entity is the Beach Boys.  Alone he's basically a cult artist.  I just can't believe that fans of Guest Artist X will be lining up in droves to pick up this album.  I think the best you can hope for is them scoring some placement in the On-Demand chart and selling a couple extra tracks.  Again, I'm not saying this album will do badly, far from it.  But I'm not expecting it to be huge either.

You also can't compare 2004 to 2014. The music landscape is totally transformed.

And the major label behind Brian's record has mapped out a strategy using people that have _decimated_ Clapton, Petty, Weird Al and McCartney in sales over the last couple of years. Not just on social media and YouTube, where it's no contest, but also in actual sales in stores.

I get that but at the end of the day it isn't their album.  The name on the marquee is still Brian Wilson.  The fan base of the guests skews young and I don't think it's likely they're going to be getting excited about an album by a guy in his 70's.  It doesn't matter how many coats of paint you slap on the house, you're still trying to sell a college kid on moving in to a retirement community.

As to why the guests are there, if the consideration is artistic then good for Brian for trying something different, especially knowing that it's an approach that's going to turn off a vocal segment of his audience.  If the consideration is commercial, I believe they have miscalculated.

It seemed to work for Johnny Cash and Tony Bennett. And John Lee Hooker, Santana, etc.