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Author Topic: *Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread  (Read 564849 times)
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« Reply #1475 on: July 23, 2014, 07:16:25 AM »

You know, it wouldn't be a bad idea to lock this thread till another clip/preview/snippet comes up. Not that this forum shouldn't be democratic and all, but I think everything that had to be said has been said n times. To be fair, it's being said in nastier ways by the hour.  Smiley
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« Reply #1476 on: July 23, 2014, 07:28:30 AM »

I disagree. Don't lock this thread. If this thread is locked, you'll have a case where the most obnoxious displays of lack of respect and common sense are allowed to exist without anyone being able to challenge or dispute them. And you'll have people's opinions being passed off as the truth in cases like Autotune and other stuff before we hear a full song.

No, don't lock it. If anything I thought I was getting sick of the same negative bullshit enough not to post anymore in this discussion, but after reading what happened yesterday and last night I'm even more resolved to keep going and offer my responses and challenges to some of the bullshit.

And that's what it is. Bullshit.
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« Reply #1477 on: July 23, 2014, 07:30:12 AM »

You know, it wouldn't be a bad idea to lock this thread till another clip/preview/snippet comes up. Not that this forum shouldn't be democratic and all, but I think everything that had to be said has been said n times. To be fair, it's being said in nastier ways by the hour.  Smiley

What are you saying?

This thread is providing more entertainment than Brian`s album, `autobiography` and biopic all ever could combined.  Wink
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« Reply #1478 on: July 23, 2014, 07:32:50 AM »

I think Ron has made a prefectly valid point, and one that represents a concern some of us have from time to time. That is, that having said that he hates rap, and having said that he only to oldies radio, and having shown that he is not familiar with the name of at least one of th guests, maybe Brian is not calling the shots while his entourage is trying to have us believe he is.

He usually seems lost and strange in public situations, we know that in-the-studio footage of recent vintage with Brian giving directions was staged (representative, we are told, but alas staged), we have the Jeff Beck account... Hell, we love the man and we have reason to be concerned.

That doesn't mean that we're not looking forward to this new album though.

I agree with you. So do most people. And, Ron did make some valid points. People tried to shout him down but that's because he hit some nerves, and sometimes the truth hurts.

Nah.  Sometimes one's perception of the truth ain't the truth at all.

Exactly right. But don't try to tell some of these folks who are already convinced they won't like it, who already know it will be bad before even hearing a full track from the album, and who seem to enjoy wallowing in the mud of being negative and telling others how "the truth" equals taking pessimistic assumptions based on nothing but personal hang-ups and biases established before hearing the actual music to get a circle-jerk going with others who like to spread the misery instead of share in the anticipation and excitement people may have over hearing new music like this.



I don't feel represented by what you posted. I've been around long enough to see Brian being manipulated or going along with whatever situation his entourage put him in. I don't want to see that again. I've seen too many weird/crappy/stiff/forced public appearances, I've heard his collaborations with other artists in the past; I've watched the staged studio footage with him giving directions. I've seen Brian looking disengaged too many times. I'm concerned that this may be happening... given some of the artistic choices and some of the accounts. Then, Brian's touch can turn a shitty situation into glorious sounds, so I am looking forward to whatever product comes out bearing his name. But let me and Ron, and whoever else wants to, be concerned. I care about all this.

This type of concern is not foreign to BBs fans. For instance, it's what prompted David Leaf to write his tome, when he perceived Brian's live appearances with the BBs as a parading of a circus animal. BTW, the PR for this new album has sucked big time, and in its attempt to build hype while dismissing other BBs, and justifying some of the collaborations has done little to bring peace to the fan community.
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« Reply #1479 on: July 23, 2014, 07:50:19 AM »

I think Ron has made a prefectly valid point, and one that represents a concern some of us have from time to time. That is, that having said that he hates rap, and having said that he only to oldies radio, and having shown that he is not familiar with the name of at least one of th guests, maybe Brian is not calling the shots while his entourage is trying to have us believe he is.

He usually seems lost and strange in public situations, we know that in-the-studio footage of recent vintage with Brian giving directions was staged (representative, we are told, but alas staged), we have the Jeff Beck account... Hell, we love the man and we have reason to be concerned.

That doesn't mean that we're not looking forward to this new album though.

I agree with you. So do most people. And, Ron did make some valid points. People tried to shout him down but that's because he hit some nerves, and sometimes the truth hurts.

Nah.  Sometimes one's perception of the truth ain't the truth at all.

Exactly right. But don't try to tell some of these folks who are already convinced they won't like it, who already know it will be bad before even hearing a full track from the album, and who seem to enjoy wallowing in the mud of being negative and telling others how "the truth" equals taking pessimistic assumptions based on nothing but personal hang-ups and biases established before hearing the actual music to get a circle-jerk going with others who like to spread the misery instead of share in the anticipation and excitement people may have over hearing new music like this.



I don't feel represented by what you posted. I've been around long enough to see Brian being manipulated or going along with whatever situation his entourage put him in. I don't want to see that again. I've seen too many weird/crappy/stiff/forced public appearances, I've heard his collaborations with other artists in the past; I've watched the staged studio footage with him giving directions. I've seen Brian looking disengaged too many times. I'm concerned that this may be happening... given some of the artistic choices and some of the accounts. Then, Brian's touch can turn a shitty situation into glorious sounds, so I am looking forward to whatever product comes out bearing his name. But let me and Ron, and whoever else wants to, be concerned. I care about all this.

This type of concern is not foreign to BBs fans. For instance, it's what prompted David Leaf to write his tome, when he perceived Brian's live appearances with the BBs as a parading of a circus animal. BTW, the PR for this new album has sucked big time, and in its attempt to build hype while dismissing other BBs, and justifying some of the collaborations has done little to bring peace to the fan community.

If you're looking forward to whatever comes out, how would you justify those trying to convince others reading who aren't as concerned how bad this music will be? And what "PR" has been done so far for the album, exactly? We have in-studio shots posted on Facebook, we have a 10-second video clip, various blurbs about guest artists and a few song titles, and we have a Rolling Stone column about the album. What exactly has been promoted beyond that?

Nothing beyond ten seconds of music in the form of Brian overdubbing a harmony part onto a rough mix has been revealed. If you're content to judge the overall quality based on that, I'd say you're not giving it much of a chance at all.

 
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« Reply #1480 on: July 23, 2014, 08:01:16 AM »

And this stuff about an "entourage" or "handlers"...Give me a few examples of anyone successful in the entertainment business even beyond music who does not have a similar "team" around them, and who is not given a schedule by their managers, agents, film studio bosses, TV execs, and whoever else is invested in that entertainer which tells them where and when to show up for promotional events like press junkets, interviews, meet-and-greet events with fans, public appearances, judging "Best In Show" for a local dog show, cutting a ribbon at a local supermarket, showing up at a party and having to suffer through a room full of agents, lawyers, and managers getting drunk and doing blow or X as they all pat each other on the back in the company of high-priced "companions"...

Do all of these entertainers and personalities do this stuff by choice, or are they told to do it if not ordered by their own management and agency teams? Do they want to go to a crowded dinner party with Regis and Barbara Walters to talk up a new venture and make connections, or would they rather be home relaxing?

Again I guess I fail to see how what is standard practice for the entertainment business has an effect on an upcoming album enough to use it to suggest it will be lesser than expected.
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« Reply #1481 on: July 23, 2014, 08:12:29 AM »

If the album is at least at the level of That's Why God Made The Radio - and I don't see why not - then I'll be happy to have it. Moments like the end of "Pacific Ocean Highway" make it all worth it. Folks, it's never gonna be the '60s or '70s again, though I'm pretty sure that's the only way some people here would be happy. I will say, though, that I'd be happier if the vocal production was more like the Gershwin album then the last BBs album, but it's not THAT big of deal. Bring on a couple more BW classics!
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« Reply #1482 on: July 23, 2014, 08:22:04 AM »

The life suite from TWGMTR was recycled material - doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the final product one bit.

Not true for all of them.

I know "Summer's Gone" was written for The Beach Boys in the late '90s and set aside in an incomplete state. However, "From There To Back Again" was newly written according to Joe Thomas. I'm not sure about "Pacific Coast Highway", but I'm pretty sure that was new as well.
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« Reply #1483 on: July 23, 2014, 08:26:20 AM »

I just checked out Frank Ocean on youtube having never heard of the guy before this thread and all I can say is for the sake of all things Holy please keep this man away from the music of Brian Wilson.
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« Reply #1484 on: July 23, 2014, 08:27:30 AM »

The life suite from TWGMTR was recycled material - doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the final product one bit.

Not true for all of them.

I know "Summer's Gone" was written for The Beach Boys in the late '90s and set aside in an incomplete state. However, "From There To Back Again" was newly written according to Joe Thomas. I'm not sure about "Pacific Coast Highway", but I'm pretty sure that was new as well.

Ahh thanks. Pacific Coast Highway, Strange World, and Summer's Gone were based on dug-up demos. But From There To Back Again was indeed a new song.
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« Reply #1485 on: July 23, 2014, 08:29:01 AM »

The life suite from TWGMTR was recycled material - doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the final product one bit.

Not true for all of them.

I know "Summer's Gone" was written for The Beach Boys in the late '90s and set aside in an incomplete state. However, "From There To Back Again" was newly written according to Joe Thomas. I'm not sure about "Pacific Coast Highway", but I'm pretty sure that was new as well.

Ahh thanks. Pacific Coast Highway, Strange World, and Summer's Gone were based on dug-up demos. But From There To Back Again was indeed a new song.

Was "Pacific Coast Highway"? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just don't remember reading or seeing that anywhere. However, yeah I'm pretty sure "Strange World" was confirmed as being of '90s vintage, so you're definitely right on that one.
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« Reply #1486 on: July 23, 2014, 08:35:17 AM »

The life suite from TWGMTR was recycled material - doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the final product one bit.

Not true for all of them.

I know "Summer's Gone" was written for The Beach Boys in the late '90s and set aside in an incomplete state. However, "From There To Back Again" was newly written according to Joe Thomas. I'm not sure about "Pacific Coast Highway", but I'm pretty sure that was new as well.

Ahh thanks. Pacific Coast Highway, Strange World, and Summer's Gone were based on dug-up demos. But From There To Back Again was indeed a new song.

Was "Pacific Coast Highway"? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just don't remember reading or seeing that anywhere. However, yeah I'm pretty sure "Strange World" was confirmed as being of '90s vintage, so you're definitely right on that one.

Here ya go:

http://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

"“My Life,” the one that’s now called “Pacific Coast Highway”—that’s one where we found some bits on a tape. And then, “Strange World,” again, was some bits that we found on tape." - Joe Thomas

Actually a really insightful interview on how Brian writes/records music these days.
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« Reply #1487 on: July 23, 2014, 08:37:24 AM »

Joe Thomas seems like a friendly guy from all those interviews. BW is comfortable with Joe helping him make the album.
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« Reply #1488 on: July 23, 2014, 08:38:22 AM »

I was excited this morning to see that this thread had exploded by EIGHT PAGES since I last read it yesterday. I thought maybe samples were up on iTunes or some such.

I felt embarrassed and sad to read those EIGHT PAGES.
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« Reply #1489 on: July 23, 2014, 08:43:15 AM »

Joe Thomas seems like a friendly guy from all those interviews. BW is comfortable with Joe helping him make the album.

Seems to be that way. This quote is encouraging:

"Because you can’t really push Brian. Things have to be done… I think why we work well together is, I have other interests, not that this isn’t wonderful and important to me. But I’m not one of those guys lapping at the front door who’s ready to work. I give Brian his space and I think he really appreciates that."
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« Reply #1490 on: July 23, 2014, 08:50:03 AM »

The most important thing to me is the classic BB sound, which I define as the vocal stack + sibling harmony + Brian composition/production.  To my ear, this was the main characteristic of the Boys' released work from Surfin' Safari through Smiley Smile with intermittent and increasingly rare occurrences through Still Cruisin' (never heard SiP, so I can't speak to that).  The dwindling of that classic sound from Wild Honey onward is one of the reasons I enjoy those albums much less.

I know I'm not going to get the classic sound in any current BB or BW release.  So as much as I dig TWGMTR or Gershwin, they're already sub-par in my mind.  That said, accepting the fact that they'll never catch lightning in a bottle again, I can enjoy these albums on their own terms.  Based on Brian's track record of late (loved TLOS, Disney, Gershwin, and TWGMTR), I look forward to this release.  

Of course if it were me calling the shots, I'd ditch the gals and make this a Beach Boys album (or at least bring enough of the band in to get close to a Beach Boys sound) and ape the classic BB sound as much as possible.  My favorite moments of the last few releases are those moments that do their best to sound like classic BB.  I'm thinking the end of "Kiss the Girl," "That's Why God Made the Radio," TWGMTR Life Suite, bits and pieces of Gershwin, etc.  They can't catch lightning in a bottle again, but recent efforts to recapture that sound have been admirable and appreciated.  If Brian does that on this new album, I'll be a happy guy.
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« Reply #1491 on: July 23, 2014, 09:33:53 AM »

The life suite from TWGMTR was recycled material - doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the final product one bit.

It actually wasn't. It has been confirmed by two sources that the core of the suite -- From there to Back Again -- was newly composed.
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« Reply #1492 on: July 23, 2014, 09:35:13 AM »

The life suite from TWGMTR was recycled material - doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the final product one bit.

It actually wasn't. It has been confirmed by two sources that the core of the suite -- From there to Back Again -- was newly composed.

Yeah, it's been discussed above. Grin
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« Reply #1493 on: July 23, 2014, 09:36:14 AM »

The life suite from TWGMTR was recycled material - doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the final product one bit.

It actually wasn't. It has been confirmed by two sources that the core of the suite -- From there to Back Again -- was newly composed.

Yeah, it's been discussed above. Grin

Dur. I'm still getting up to speed here.

For the record, this is the breakdown on the TWGMTR tracks --

Think About the Days -- New Joe-Brian track.
TWGMTR -- Late '90s song, with new work from Brian
Isn't it Time -- New song
Spring Vacation -- Late '90s track (originally called Lay Down Burden), with new ML lyrics
Bill and Sue -- New BW song with JT chorus
Shelter -- New BW song
Daybreak -- Vintage ML track
Beaches in Mind -- Possibly new BW track
Strange World -- Late 90s
From there to Back Again -- New track
Pacific Coast Highway -- Late 90s
Summer's Gone -- Late 90s track, expanded for album sessions

So six of the 12 songs are new BW/JT work, five are from the late 90s (although at least three are revised or expanded) and one is an old Mike song.
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« Reply #1494 on: July 23, 2014, 09:39:11 AM »

No problem, it's been a crazy 24 hours on this thread! Cheesy
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« Reply #1495 on: July 23, 2014, 09:43:40 AM »

Lana Del Ray apparently says she has slept her way "to the top".

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/lana-del-rey-ive-slept-lot-guys-industry-142500820.html

I wonder who she "did" to get to Brian.  Shocked
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« Reply #1496 on: July 23, 2014, 09:45:38 AM »

When there are people who haven't heard the album who are already saying it may be a great album, how is that different than people saying they think it might not be? They're both uninformed opinions. It's the battle of guessing games.

I'm not basing opinions on total nonsense like the quality or lack thereof of song titles, or trying to make comments about things that happened or didn't happen in someone's life or in the creative process in general based on things I know absolutely nothing about.

I'm excited simply because it's a new Brian Wilson album with new Brian Wilson vocals, new Brian Wilson songs, and new Brian Wilson arrangements. And I'm a fan of Brian Wilson's vocals, songs, and arrangements.

If I were not a fan of Brian Wilson and didn't care about this new album, I might say I'm not excited about this new album and simply *not buy it* when it comes out. But I wouldn't go pissing on other people's enthusiasm especially by using points like bland song titles to say the songs won't be good before hearing them. Or trying to suggest a lack of inspiration or focus will be a factor when I don't know jack squat about either subject enough to even qualify the statement.

I've said all along, about this and the movie and everything else: Save your money, don't buy the album, don't buy a ticket. Simple as that. Just don't try to sell others here on how bad it will be by using faulty logic or information as a basis.

OK ; where do I start ? First , with what my ears have told me over the years. In 1962 I was a kid hanging out in the Sugar Shack in Breezy Point , NY , when I heard "Surfin Safari " on the juke box ; I knew at that moment it was the most different thing I have ever heard.  In 1965 I went to the Brooklyn Academy of Music to see The Beach Boys in Concert ; the first of over 100 Beach Boys concerts I attended until 1993 at The Paramount in NYC. My ears told me this was the best band I would ever hear, and I have not changed my mind since. In 1966 I opened my first copy of Pet Sounds; my ears told me this was the greatest record of all time ; today in 2014 , my ears tell me the same thing. Sunflower, Today, Summer Days , Holland , Love You.....you get the drift ; my ears told me all I need to know. A friend gave me a cassette copy of Summer in Paradise when it first came out; my ears told me to walk down the street and throw it into the Atlantic Ocean before my neighbors had me arrested for crimes against humanity if I were ever were insane enough to play it again. I have spent several months added up in my life , in recording studios with Brian Wilson. My ears tell me when he is inspired , when a track is good , or when he doesn't give a damn and a track or take is sub par or mediocre. So I will reiterate what my ears tell me about this new BW product . There are 7-8 tracks on this record which should be extremely satisfying to the "purist core" (of which I feel  am one) of the fan base. These tracks include alternating leads by Brian  and Al, alternating leads by Brian , Al and Blondie, a few leads by Brian that are as good as , or better than his leads on TWGMTR. And as I have said before , if none of that is appealing to your individual taste or requirement, don't buy it.  As for the collaborative tracks ; I will only say that I personally was prepared to not like , for example, the Kacey Musgraves track, as I am not a fan of country music.  In this case , I am glad I listened to it and gave it a chance.  I won't comment at all on the other collaborations other than to say that they are different and you should just make up your own mind when you hear them. Point is , and I have said this before; if you are predisposed to not like this record for whatever  reason ;save your money and don't buy it. End of story.  I started posting this stuff because there are actually people who are on this board who are passionate about the music and want to get an idea of what is coming down the turnpike; I have said all I want to say about this record , so I will not comment on it any longer; it serves no purpose to do so, especially given some of the "wankery" that has gone on in the last several pages of this thread.  You should hear it in a few months and judge for yourself; buy it ; don't buy it. Up to you. It is of supernatural indifference to me who buys it/does not buy it ; listener's choice.

My second point is this "handler " fallacy. I have asked several times on this board for the names of these handlers, and nobody has been able to identify them ; why are they as elusive as Dick Cheney's WMD in Iraq ? It is the same scenario; they don't exist. I have been in the Wilson homes , traveled to the UK, continental Europe , Asia and Australia with BW; I never saw any of these handlers; I didn't check under the couches though , maybe they were hiding there !  All artists have managers and publicists; most have wives ; I don't consider them handlers , but rather people doing their jobs for the artists in question . I believe calling these people "handlers" is derogatory; someone posted earlier that handlers work at Sea World; I concur.

Last points ; how do you know that Frank Ocean or Danny Boy are even on this record ? How do you ascertain the quality of a track from a working title ? What was the working title for California Girls ? It was "I Don't Know" ....if you knew that would you say it can't be any good based on this title ?? Why is it a negative that Rolling Stone is paying attention to this release ?

  Here is what I know; Brian worked his ass off on this record whether some here want to believe that or not; let the music speak for itself.





 


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« Reply #1497 on: July 23, 2014, 09:55:57 AM »

 w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t!
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« Reply #1498 on: July 23, 2014, 09:58:32 AM »

Ray, I enjoy your posts (and common sense).

As for the Frank Ocean talk, I'll just say this. Wilson is a musician whose innovations fans adore. Whose chance-taking fans adore. Yet what were innovations and chances 40-plus years ago aren't chances anymore. They're long-since established formulas with which many fans apparently don't want Brian to f***. Kind of ironic, actually. When something truly puzzling, such as a collaboration with Ocean, is announced, that's what we hear: I don't get it, I haven't heard it (but hate it), don't f*** with the formula.

I like some of Frank Ocean's work (and don't like some of it) and I respect the guy as a writer, singer, and producer. (Rapper? He's actually not an especially engaging rapper, which makes that he raps the funniest part. Earl Sweatshirt mocks him a little about how "he thinks he's a rapper now" in a not-too-old interview. Ha.) I have no idea how he could possibly collaborate with Brian Wilson with successful results ... and that's why I want to hear a collaboration. Deschanel, meh, that's easy to imagine. I have no doubt it will be pleasant, maybe even good. But Ocean? That's interesting. That's different. Maybe it will suck. Who cares? It's a pop record! I hope it's released and that we get to hear it: far more interesting than a new car or surf song specially created for us in the 21st century.

Anyway, feel free to return to your regularly scheduled whining.  
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Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
mtaber
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« Reply #1499 on: July 23, 2014, 09:58:56 AM »

I, for one, come to this thread on a daily basis looking for exactly what Ray has just given us.  Thank you, Ray!
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