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Author Topic: *Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread  (Read 564856 times)
ToneBender631
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« Reply #350 on: June 11, 2014, 03:38:10 AM »

There may be some auto-tune in use on Al's vocals, but it's nowhere near as bad as anyone is claiming. They used the same processing chain for the rest of the lead vocals in the suite.

Indeed ? First you tell us most emphatically there's no autotune on the track at all, now there "may" be some. A little consistency, please.

And I never claimed it was bad (the contrary actually), just that it was unsubtle enough for me to catch it.

Here's what I've said:

"The auto-tune on TWGMTR (exempting the IIT single remix) is actually done very subtly. There's one particular moment in TLOS where the auto-tune jumps out far worse than anything on TWGMTR."

"Al's performance is pretty tight on this, and there is probably a bit of auto-tune, but it's not what everyone is making it out to be."

"Not that auto-tune itself has no artifacts but that the most common artifacts aren't all over From There To Back Again."

"There may be some auto-tune in use on Al's vocals, but it's nowhere near as bad as anyone is claiming. They used the same processing chain for the rest of the lead vocals in the suite."

Which part of that is inconsistent? I've said all along there's auto-tune on the record but I've also stated that what most people believe they hear as auto-tune is actually as a result of different types of vocal processing, most of which doesn't have the negative connotation that the term "auto-tune" does.

There is most definitely a liberal use of that pitch correction effect going on throughout the reunion album.  Same with their live album.  But if you *really* want to talk about horrible use of pitch correction, look (or hear) no further than Paul McCartney's live album, Good Evening New York City.  Holy crap do they take it to another level...

I actually went to the second show of that. Excellent performance from Paul and his pitch was fine at the show. One of only two times I've seen my mother cry over a man (the other being BW at the Highline Ballroom in 2011)! I have the live album but haven't listened in awhile...I seem to remember "Drive My Car" being the worst offender on the auto-tune front? Is that an accurate memory?  

Anyway, pitch modulation (whether natural or otherwise) can get really funky when you start involving delay processing. I'd really encourage people on this board to spend a bit of time on YouTube learning about ADT (especially how it purposely introduces pitch modulation) and VocAlign. VocAlign is really helpful for doubles and harmony stacks in the music world and is really heavily used when doing ADR in the film/tv world. While it does an incredible job, when overdone it can get things so locked in that they sound unnatural (like Al and Brian's harmonies on FTTBA).
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ToneBender631
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« Reply #351 on: June 11, 2014, 03:45:47 AM »

Poor Brian, having to read criticism of decisions he din't even make.

Poor Brian, having to read criticism by people who don't actually know whether he made (or agreed with) a particular decision or not.  No matter how sure of themselves they are.

I'm really sick of fandom's tendency to treat the objects of their fandom as a Rorshach test.

Regards,
Jon Blum

As a Mets fan it's always been a whole heckuva lot of fun to criticize every decision their management team makes...Who needs to be privy to contract negotiations, clubhouse interactions, internal scouting reports or monthly finance reports when you can just tell the GM to sign a SS for $12mi/yr from the informed perch of one's living room couch?
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« Reply #352 on: June 11, 2014, 04:07:37 AM »

oops
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 04:10:47 AM by John Manning » Logged

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« Reply #353 on: June 11, 2014, 04:38:15 AM »

Poor Brian, having to read criticism of decisions he din't even make.

Poor Brian, having to read criticism by people who don't actually know whether he made (or agreed with) a particular decision or not.  No matter how sure of themselves they are.

I'm really sick of fandom's tendency to treat the objects of their fandom as a Rorshach test.

Regards,
Jon Blum

Do you know what's really sickening? Having fans tell other fans how they are supposed to think and feel. Who the hell are you?

Oh, shudder, fans are stating and opining what kind of music, album, and collaborators (or lack of) that they PREFER from their favorite artist. And on a rock & roll message board no less. How dare they do that! Fans have just as much right to express skepticism or displeasure at what they are reading as people who are posting optimistic feelings. And I'll repeat - what they are reading. Of course they haven't heard the music, but it's not the music they are criticizing. They are speculating and predicting on a message board about "things" that they don't care for.

Brian's Facebook message/response falls right in line with the rest of the decisions being made about this...er...project. He probably didn't think of it, he probably didn't compose the content, and he probably didn't physically type it. But they want us to believe he did. In my opinion, of course...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 04:50:23 AM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
ToneBender631
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« Reply #354 on: June 11, 2014, 05:17:17 AM »

Poor Brian, having to read criticism of decisions he din't even make.

Poor Brian, having to read criticism by people who don't actually know whether he made (or agreed with) a particular decision or not.  No matter how sure of themselves they are.

I'm really sick of fandom's tendency to treat the objects of their fandom as a Rorshach test.

Regards,
Jon Blum

Do you know what's really sickening? Having fans tell other fans how they are supposed to think and feel. Who the hell are you?

Oh, shudder, fans are stating and opining what kind of music, album, and collaborators (or lack of) that they PREFER from their favorite artist. And on a rock & roll message board no less. How dare they do that! Fans have just as much right to express skepticism or displeasure at what they are reading as people who are posting optimistic feelings. And I'll repeat - what they are reading. Of course they haven't heard the music, but it's not the music they are criticizing. They are speculating and predicting on a message board about "things" that they don't care for.

Brian's Facebook message/response falls right in line with the rest of the decisions being made about this...er...project. He probably didn't think of it, he probably didn't compose the content, and he probably didn't physically type it. But they want us to believe he did. In my opinion, of course...

Did Brian post that or author it word for word? Probably not. My guess is that it was Melinda that wrote it, given the time of day that the post went up, probably reflecting Brian's reaction to some comments on the FB thread, as well as possibly those on this board. But your phrasing also seems to suggest that Brian has no input, creatively or otherwise, in this entire project. Am I misunderstanding? Or are you just referring to the public "updates" that we've been getting?
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« Reply #355 on: June 11, 2014, 05:58:29 AM »

Hard to tell. If Brian's entourage is to be believed in that Brian is lucid, capable, and making all choices, then we must take his word in a recent interview about being fed up with collaborators. Yet, we've counted how many collaborators in this current project already?

There's also Beck's account: he sat in the studio with Brian, who didn't utter a word; and then he (Beck) was handed an arrangement alledgedly written by Brian- who would not speak with him.

Each one of Brian's solo albums has triggered the very same discussion topic: how much input does he have? How much of the decision-making bulk is his? There must be like 30 threads on that subject here.

Sometimes he seems so out of it that it's hard to imagine that he can manage to direct an album project. BUT, on the other hand, no one here runs to the record store to buy the latest Wondermints or Scotty Bennet album-- his collaborators are never as good or inspired on their own as when they work with Brian.

Don't care for duets, and would only do so if:
1- they inspired Brian as a songwriter
2- they inspired Brian as a producer
3- they boosted record sales

I don't believe any of that is happening.

As for the "Brian" post on his FB page... We know he didn't type it; doesn't sound like him; does not help. As for the ubiquotous "Love and mercy" signature, it has become as stiff, unnecessary and bothersome as the "Cheers, xxxxxx" we have to read here at the end of some posts.

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« Reply #356 on: June 11, 2014, 06:31:42 AM »

Quote from: me
Poor Brian, having to read criticism by people who don't actually know whether he made (or agreed with) a particular decision or not.  No matter how sure of themselves they are.

I'm really sick of fandom's tendency to treat the objects of their fandom as a Rorshach test.

Regards,
Jon Blum

Do you know what's really sickening? Having fans tell other fans how they are supposed to think and feel. Who the hell are you?

Just a guy.  That's all I need to be, to have the right to say when I think people are talking bulls***.

Which is what this is.  Not one of us knows whether Brian looked over Melinda's shoulder at Facebook and she transcribed what he said, or what.  Not one of us knows whether he liked the idea of collaborating with Lana/Zooey/Kacey/whoever or not.  People here are inventing insights they don't have.

Quote
Oh, shudder, fans are stating and opining what kind of music, album, and collaborators (or lack of) that they PREFER from their favorite artist.

Read the posting I was responding to:  it had *nothing* to do with the music, and *everything* to do with making up a mental state and attributing it to Brian.

We can speak for ourselves; we do not have the right to speak for Brian.

Regards,
Jon Blum
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 06:36:28 AM by Jonathan Blum » Logged
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« Reply #357 on: June 11, 2014, 06:36:35 AM »

It always surprises me that so many folks who dislike and dismiss Brian's solo work feel so passionately about these things. He's not going to go the Rick Rubin route. Heck, he's not even going to go the Andy Paley route. The auto tune and slurring are here to stay.

Brian has made the decisions he's made and put out the music he has. We can't change a single note of it. He's over 70, and bar some miraculous change, we likely won't get too many more albums from him. If this stuff bothers you so much -- if BW is indeed such a shell of his former self -- please don't bother with it. Leave the record to those of us who have generally enjoyed his solo work. Everyone will be happier.
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« Reply #358 on: June 11, 2014, 06:38:40 AM »

It's interesting that many folk here question whether Brian makes his own posts on FB, yet don't put their own names to their posts here.

Would Brian's posts be more authentic if he used a pseudonym? Would that make them as acceptable as posts here?  Wink 2

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« Reply #359 on: June 11, 2014, 06:39:18 AM »

I still think it’s funny that something like 15 years after Brian’s website first appeared and posts attributed to his name started appearing, we’re still debating whether he writes them. I think we can probably mostly agree (hopefully all agree) that Brian isn’t sitting and typing the stuff himself. Someone else almost surely does that. That’s probably not uncommon even among younger, more computer savvy music industry personalities.

The question has always been, do they just transcribe what Brian says verbally? This we’ll probably never know with 100% certainty. One’s “literary” voice, or “written” voice, is often different from their spoken voice. Brian doesn’t talk in person the way “his” posts and letters are written. If he’s not typing them himself, it’s pretty obvious that someone else is at the very least molding and editing Brian’s words. There actually is somewhere in between writing it all yourself and having someone else write it without having any input yourself.

A number of years back, I wrote website content and correspondence for a band; one without a record deal but fronted by a movie/TV star, so they had a pretty big following for a supposedly “indie” band. Long story short, these guys weren’t writing any of the stuff on their website (this was pre-facebook, so mainly it was website and message boards). Their manager/associates would dictate stuff to people including myself, we’d write it all out, and hopefully the band would at least approve it. Now, we weren’t writing actual posts or e-mails attributed to the band members. The stuff we were writing was not “signed” by or attributed to any particular person. It was just general stuff attributed to the band’s web team, message board moderator, etc. But the same thing could apply to an individual music star. Someone tells them what’s going on on their facebook page, the star relates the gist of what they’d like to respond with (or someone suggests to them that they should respond), and that commentary is then molded into a “post”, which we can only hope that person at least “signs off” on.

As far as negativity on the new album, I don’t think it’s a bad thing if Brian actually knows that maybe not every fan will swallow anything he releases without question. I wouldn’t feel bad for Brian about it; however valid or invalid any criticisms are (more invalid I would suppose since we haven’t heard the freaking material yet), Brian and his team have already marginalized any criticism in their minds clearly. Someone who isn’t hot on duets with contemporary stars has already been lumped in with the proverbial buzzkills that didn’t like “Pet Sounds” and “Smile” back in the day.

I’m fine with some duets. Just put an album out and let’s get everything moving. Maybe some of the tracks will suck. I’m still hoping some of the Jardine/Marks/Chaplin stuff makes the cut. If there is any sort of “duets” type of theme there, maybe a Beck track or two could still find its way on there too.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 06:42:06 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #360 on: June 11, 2014, 06:39:59 AM »

This infantile bickering doesn't become us.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 06:44:31 AM by Lowbacca » Logged
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« Reply #361 on: June 11, 2014, 07:05:39 AM »

When Brian said that he doesn't need collaborators, he was talking about song-writing collaborators.  Here is what Brian said (if it was really Brian  Roll Eyes )

I’ve had it with collaborators. I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with. I don’t really know who would want to work with me at this stage. Young people? People my own age? I don’t know. I’d be very interested if someone approached me. I’m open to that.

But I think the solution is that I should really try to write lyrics myself. I wrote a lot of lyrics for The Beach Boys. The other band members wrote, but their lyrics weren’t as good as Van Dyke or Tony. They were just not as good as writers.”

As far as I know, he has no collaborators on the new record.  Joe Thomas may be one, I don't know.  We'll have to wait to see the songwriting credits.  We know he has recorded with backing musicians, backing vocalists, guest musicians, and guest vocalists for the new album.  Brian's used all of these throughout his career.  We don't even know if there are duets (Ray, correct me if I'm wrong).  Perhaps the three female singers are going to sing lead on entire songs with Brian doing backgrounds.  We just don't know yet.

Also, there is a huge difference between writing songs that you want to get played on the radio, and writing songs for money.  We all know that Brian's motivation has always been trying to get songs played on the radio.  He never cared about the money.  Hell, he left very large checks uncashed for weeks.    

That Irish Times article shows a very talkative, up-beat Brian Wilson.  It gave me the impression that he has reflected on his career, and has decided to live the rest of his life in peace.  He doesn't want drama.  He doesn't need to be told what to do.  I believe that the sentiment in the Facebook post came from Brian, regardless of who put fingers to keyboard.  Yeah, I believe Brain does have an agenda these days.    
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 07:14:23 AM by LostArt » Logged
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« Reply #362 on: June 11, 2014, 07:21:57 AM »

Billboard:

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6114184/brian-wilson-tells-doubters-to-back-off-it-kind-of-bums-me-out
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 07:23:10 AM by Cyncie » Logged
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« Reply #363 on: June 11, 2014, 07:31:41 AM »

When Brian said that he doesn't need collaborators, he was talking about song-writing collaborators.  Here is what Brian said (if it was really Brian  Roll Eyes )

I’ve had it with collaborators. I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with. I don’t really know who would want to work with me at this stage. Young people? People my own age? I don’t know. I’d be very interested if someone approached me. I’m open to that.

But I think the solution is that I should really try to write lyrics myself. I wrote a lot of lyrics for The Beach Boys. The other band members wrote, but their lyrics weren’t as good as Van Dyke or Tony. They were just not as good as writers.”

As far as I know, he has no collaborators on the new record.  Joe Thomas may be one, I don't know.  We'll have to wait to see the songwriting credits.  We know he has recorded with backing musicians, backing vocalists, guest musicians, and guest vocalists on the new album.  Brian's used all of these throughout his career.  We don't even know if there are duets (Ray, correct me if I'm wrong).  Perhaps the three female singers are going to sing lead on entire songs with Brian doing backgrounds.  We just don't know yet.

Also, there is a huge difference between writing songs that you want to get played on the radio, and writing songs for money.  We all know that Brian's motivation has always been trying to get songs played on the radio.  He didn't care about the money.  Hell, he left very large checks uncashed for weeks.    

That Irish Times article shows a very talkative, up-beat Brian Wilson.  It gave me the impression that he has reflected on his career, and has decided to live the rest of his life in peace.  He doesn't want drama.  He doesn't need to be told what to do.  I believe that the sentiment in the Facebook post came from Brian, regardless of who put fingers to keyboard.  Yeah, I believe Brain does have an agenda these days.    

LostArt - Great thoughts, great post! Besides putting perspective on the issues being debated, I'd also like to remind some of us here that there is a difference between a "collaborator" and a "guest artist".

In all fairness maybe some of the posters here don't follow other forms or genres of music as much as what they're into.

Let me just say that in the world of top-40, pop, dance, R&B, even some areas of country and bluegrass to go really niche, and blues...the "guest artist" is and has been more than common on these charts for well over a decade.

Here's the thing: It's not 1965, it's not 1972, heck it's not even 1992.

Take a look at any Billboard rap singles chart from the past decade or so. Note how many "guest artists" are on songs that charted. You'll see countless credits with the abbreviation "feat. so-and-so" next to the artist's name. Does this mean they "collaborated" as in writing and producing the song, or does it mean they sang a hook vocal or did a breakdown section?

Look what won a Grammy from 2013 "Get Lucky"...Daft Punk feat. Pharrell Williams. Pharrell sang the lead vocal...Daft Punk wrote and produced the song. Are people pissed that Daft Punk brought an outsider in to sing that song?

Maybe...they as producers thought he had the right voice and delivery for their song, not to mention the right kind of throwback 70's funk/dance vibe where he knew how to deliver the right performance for their grooves. Hmmm.

How about this single from last year, one of the bigger sellers in pop and dance from 2013:

Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke, feat. T.I. and Pharrell. So there are *TWO* featured guest artists, one of them Pharrell who co-produced with Thicke and a guest rapper.

Why mention this?

Just to say it's the nature of a lot of the music business in 2014, and has been for some time.

It's not 1965 where Capitol has to edit out "thank you, Dean" so they don't have to pay Dean Torrance for being on a single he wasn't supposed to be involved with by contract, or anything of the sort.

It's also a way to allow artists to work with *other artists*, or if there is a song that needs a female voice, to actually bring in a guest female vocalist while still having it be their own album.

It's kind of a liberating thing for artists or producers, right?

And as far as songwriting...again go to a lot of the bigger-selling top-40 hits of the past 10 years or so and notice how in some cases there are literally "teams" of songwriters upwards of a half-dozen or more names in some cases who are credited for writing a song. And, as happens often, in many cases these "collaborators" never worked in the same room or even on the same continent to create that hit.

So forgive me if I don't agree with some comments that base a perception of "collaboration" or "guest artists" or whatever else on idealized notions of what it was like 50 years ago in the music business.

Because it isn't. And that's how the game is played in 2014.

Ultimately it's about the song itself after it's been finished and we can hear it, right?
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« Reply #364 on: June 11, 2014, 07:35:19 AM »

None of this would be happening, either, if they simply would not keep making statements and posting photos in the studio of a work in progress. People can say all they want how folks shouldn't jump the gun until they hear the released record, but I don't recall any other artist having that many constant updates about what's going on in the studio, and it's human nature to try to figure out what the final product could wind up being with the given information. I'm sure when bands like Fleetwood Mac were taking years to make an album, no one knew what was going on or who was in and out of the studio, or which tracks were rejected and which ones made the cut. I suppose the Internet creates the demand of constant updates. Still, not a good thing when they're still up in the air as to what they want the final album to be.

Bands do this all the time on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram to drum up interest/intrigue in an album. And much of the time there's no confirmed release date, too.

People are talking about the album, right? Billboard posted a blog about Brian's response, right? From a marketing standpoint, this is working. Now, the album just has to be good.
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« Reply #365 on: June 11, 2014, 07:45:08 AM »

No, the album doesn't have to be good. It just has to have a fan base that will buy and uncritically praise no matter what this particular artist does, or has his people doing for him, whether it be Joe Thomas or whoever else he has doing a lot of heavy lifting for him.  Brian has turned into one of those kids in soccer who automatically gets a trophy for participating. It doesn't matter how he plays that day, if he only plays a few minutes, or if the team loses, he gets a shiny gold cup.

I suppose that's also true of a legend like Bob Dylan, who has enough good will and great work in the distant past that he can coast on his laurels, but I don't think his fan base gets angry if a fan or anyone else dares to criticize him, and Bob certainly seems to care less if someone criticizes him.  You won't catch Bob Dylan taking to Facebook posting a "poor, pitiful me" message if someone is skeptical about something he's doing.
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« Reply #366 on: June 11, 2014, 07:49:04 AM »

No, the album doesn't have to be good. It just has to have a fan base that will buy and uncritically praise no matter what this particular artist does, or has his people doing for him, whether it be Joe Thomas or whoever else he has doing a lot of heavy lifting for him.  Brian has turned into one of those kids in soccer who automatically gets a trophy for participating. It doesn't matter how he plays that day, if he only plays a few minutes, or if the team loses, he gets a shiny gold cup.

I suppose that's also true of a legend like Bob Dylan, who has enough good will and great work in the distant past that he can coast on his laurels, but I don't think his fan base gets angry if a fan or anyone else dares to criticize him, and Bob certainly seems to care less if someone criticizes him.  You won't catch Bob Dylan taking to Facebook posting a "poor, pitiful me" message if someone is skeptical about something he's doing.

Wilson's different, that's all. He's always been super-sensitive to external criticism and has canned stuff in the past just because some guy off the street was indifferent to it.  If Dylan canned everything that anyone was indifferent to, he'd've not released half the stuff he has.

You can't hold Wilson's super-sensitivity against him. It's probably the root of some of his greatest pieces of music.
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« Reply #367 on: June 11, 2014, 07:58:33 AM »

No, the album doesn't have to be good. It just has to have a fan base that will buy and uncritically praise no matter what this particular artist does, or has his people doing for him, whether it be Joe Thomas or whoever else he has doing a lot of heavy lifting for him.  Brian has turned into one of those kids in soccer who automatically gets a trophy for participating. It doesn't matter how he plays that day, if he only plays a few minutes, or if the team loses, he gets a shiny gold cup.

I suppose that's also true of a legend like Bob Dylan, who has enough good will and great work in the distant past that he can coast on his laurels, but I don't think his fan base gets angry if a fan or anyone else dares to criticize him, and Bob certainly seems to care less if someone criticizes him.  You won't catch Bob Dylan taking to Facebook posting a "poor, pitiful me" message if someone is skeptical about something he's doing.

It has to be good for non-Brian Wilson superfans to buy it, which is clearly what he and his camp are aiming for.
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« Reply #368 on: June 11, 2014, 08:00:13 AM »


Nothing new about the album in that article
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« Reply #369 on: June 11, 2014, 08:06:08 AM »

None of this would be happening, either, if they simply would not keep making statements and posting photos in the studio of a work in progress. People can say all they want how folks shouldn't jump the gun until they hear the released record, but I don't recall any other artist having that many constant updates about what's going on in the studio, and it's human nature to try to figure out what the final product could wind up being with the given information. I'm sure when bands like Fleetwood Mac were taking years to make an album, no one knew what was going on or who was in and out of the studio, or which tracks were rejected and which ones made the cut. I suppose the Internet creates the demand of constant updates. Still, not a good thing when they're still up in the air as to what they want the final album to be.

Bands do this all the time on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram to drum up interest/intrigue in an album. And much of the time there's no confirmed release date, too.

People are talking about the album, right? Billboard posted a blog about Brian's response, right? From a marketing standpoint, this is working. Now, the album just has to be good.

Just had a question...I have a copy of a magazine article from 1966 where it describes Brian Wilson working in the studio, and it describes some unusual scenes like horn players talking into their instruments, a group of guys doing "underwater" chants, the Beach Boys doing vocals on a song called "Heroes" at Columbia, Brian overdubbing upright piano and grand piano parts over each other...what's all that about, what was going on with that article reporting things that are happening in the studio, unknown songs like "Heroes" being recorded, all these things about an album or albums that no one knows yet what they will be?

Then I have another article, from earlier in 1967, showing some photos of the Beatles recording something...there are brass instruments in the studio, John Lennon seems to be trying to play a French Horn, there are all kinds of music stands and instruments set up with microphones...I don't see them with guitars...and they don't mention anything about what this new album will be. What the hell are the Beatles doing with brass instruments? Why would they publish these photos of them in the studio recording an album like this...we have no idea what they're doing! Have they gone "orchestral", are they becoming a brass band? Has Lennon ditched guitar to take up the horn?

Seriously, too much confusion. Bands shouldn't print articles like this with photos, their fans might get the wrong impression, especially before anything has been decided around how the album will be released. The Beatles playing horns? Brian overdubbing pianos? What kind of music is this?  LOL
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #370 on: June 11, 2014, 08:23:40 AM »

Edited because I asked myself "Do I really care?" and the answer was "Nope."
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« Reply #371 on: June 11, 2014, 08:24:14 AM »

When Brian said that he doesn't need collaborators, he was talking about song-writing collaborators.  Here is what Brian said (if it was really Brian  Roll Eyes )

I’ve had it with collaborators. I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with. I don’t really know who would want to work with me at this stage. Young people? People my own age? I don’t know. I’d be very interested if someone approached me. I’m open to that.

But I think the solution is that I should really try to write lyrics myself. I wrote a lot of lyrics for The Beach Boys. The other band members wrote, but their lyrics weren’t as good as Van Dyke or Tony. They were just not as good as writers.”

As far as I know, he has no collaborators on the new record.  Joe Thomas may be one, I don't know.  We'll have to wait to see the songwriting credits.  We know he has recorded with backing musicians, backing vocalists, guest musicians, and guest vocalists on the new album.  Brian's used all of these throughout his career.  We don't even know if there are duets (Ray, correct me if I'm wrong).  Perhaps the three female singers are going to sing lead on entire songs with Brian doing backgrounds.  We just don't know yet.

Also, there is a huge difference between writing songs that you want to get played on the radio, and writing songs for money.  We all know that Brian's motivation has always been trying to get songs played on the radio.  He didn't care about the money.  Hell, he left very large checks uncashed for weeks.    

That Irish Times article shows a very talkative, up-beat Brian Wilson.  It gave me the impression that he has reflected on his career, and has decided to live the rest of his life in peace.  He doesn't want drama.  He doesn't need to be told what to do.  I believe that the sentiment in the Facebook post came from Brian, regardless of who put fingers to keyboard.  Yeah, I believe Brain does have an agenda these days.    
Take a look at any Billboard rap singles chart from the past decade or so. Note how many "guest artists" are on songs that charted. You'll see countless credits with the abbreviation "feat. so-and-so" next to the artist's name. Does this mean they "collaborated" as in writing and producing the song, or does it mean they sang a hook vocal or did a breakdown section?

Look what won a Grammy from 2013 "Get Lucky"...Daft Punk feat. Pharrell Williams. Pharrell sang the lead vocal...Daft Punk wrote and produced the song. Are people pissed that Daft Punk brought an outsider in to sing that song?

Maybe...they as producers thought he had the right voice and delivery for their song, not to mention the right kind of throwback 70's funk/dance vibe where he knew how to deliver the right performance for their grooves. Hmmm.

How about this single from last year, one of the bigger sellers in pop and dance from 2013:

Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke, feat. T.I. and Pharrell. So there are *TWO* featured guest artists, one of them Pharrell who co-produced with Thicke and a guest rapper.

Why mention this?

Just to say it's the nature of a lot of the music business in 2014, and has been for some time.



Because it isn't. And that's how the game is played in 2014.

Ultimately it's about the song itself after it's been finished and we can hear it, right?

It's an unfortunate aspect of the music business today although I will concede as you mentioned in the end it probably doesn't amount to all that much.  It's nitpicking (but hey we are diehard music fans and it's what we do) but I've always preferred my record labels to have the name of the primary artists period: The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Who.  Maybe it's just because what I've been familiar with for years but personally feel that the "featured" credit somewhat dilutes the talents of the primary artist as if they need the secondary artist's name to be credited on their record in order to move product.  It's almost as if they are saying to the consumer: "Well you might not be a fan of this artist but they are collaborating with this other artist that you might like, so maybe you'll buy this record".

From a marketing standpoint: it's genius.  From an artistic standpoint: It's pathetic.  

In short when the primary artist is significantly more marketable than the secondary artist credited on the sleeve (The Beatles: Get Back featuring Billy Preston would be a good example of this) there is really not much of an issue as all the artist is doing is giving credit to someone who helped them out on their record.  The problem or issue occurs when the primary artist is less well known than the secondary artist or in the case of McCartney-Jackson in 1983 are marketing to entirely different fanbases.  The reason being is because it makes the artist who should be the primary look as if he needs the secondary artist credited on his sleeve to sell his product which equates to making him seem/stay relevant with consumers which is a message that in my opinion that any artist in the truest sense of the word should never send out to his public.  

As I mentioned it's an unfortunate aspect of the music industry today although matters to few because few actually take the time to think these things through like the diehards do.
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« Reply #372 on: June 11, 2014, 08:27:01 AM »

I guess we know where VDP stands on this.

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Release Brian! http://www.stereogum.com/1686119/new-brian-wilson-album-may-feature-lana-del-rey-frank-ocean-zooey-deschanel/news/
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« Reply #373 on: June 11, 2014, 08:36:26 AM »

No, the album doesn't have to be good. It just has to have a fan base that will buy and uncritically praise no matter what this particular artist does, or has his people doing for him, whether it be Joe Thomas or whoever else he has doing a lot of heavy lifting for him.  Brian has turned into one of those kids in soccer who automatically gets a trophy for participating. It doesn't matter how he plays that day, if he only plays a few minutes, or if the team loses, he gets a shiny gold cup.

I suppose that's also true of a legend like Bob Dylan, who has enough good will and great work in the distant past that he can coast on his laurels, but I don't think his fan base gets angry if a fan or anyone else dares to criticize him, and Bob certainly seems to care less if someone criticizes him.  You won't catch Bob Dylan taking to Facebook posting a "poor, pitiful me" message if someone is skeptical about something he's doing.

It has to be good for non-Brian Wilson superfans to buy it, which is clearly what he and his camp are aiming for.

There might also be superfans of Frankie Pacific Ocean Blue, Lana Dear Rey, Kacey Musgraves, Jeff Beck, Al Jardine, Blondie Chaplin, David Marks, Don Was, Jim Keltner, Vinnie Colaiuta, Tal Winkenfeld, Burt Bacharach (really? Missed that one!), Lana Del Rey, Matt Jardine (which I guess is mostly us) and Zooey Des Chanel ready to boost sales – y'know, the gotta have everything superfans – , just as I'll be likely to buy their material that has Brian on backing vox, cos that's what (some) fans end up doing.  So there's a defo commercial angle both ways.

And I'm not complaining.  Just saving up.
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« Reply #374 on: June 11, 2014, 08:36:56 AM »

John, I'm totally with ya on this:

"From a marketing standpoint: it's genius.  From an artistic standpoint: It's pathetic".  

But not this:

God Bless California
For It Marks My Faith To See
You're The Only State With The Sacred Honor
....to sink into the sea
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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