Brother Re-Issues: Proposed Bonus Tracks

[Andrew G. Doe]

The horror... the horror... 

[drbeachboy]

Somehow I've missed the posts where people demanded that Clay should share the tracks or calling him a liar. Maybe the administrators erased them.

From Custom Machine: "Ya know what, Klay?  This sounds like a total crock of bullshit." and that is just one and it was the first sentence of the post.

From Jason Pennick: "The real mystery to me is why the people who discover these rare outtakes feel the need to come on here and crow about it to get us all salivating, only to go on about how they're not going to share it to anyone."

Hey Doctor, with your advanced degree in Beachboyology did they ever teach you how to spell somebody's name correctly when using them as an example of poor form? There's this awesome feature on your computer you might not be aware of called copy and paste-- very effective in getting peoples' names right with a limited chance of error.

By the way, this poster you keep calling out seems to be named Klay, with a "K". Just FYI.

And lest you think I'm being a right asshole towards you right now, I'll deflect that back in your direction and ask you why you feel justified to partially quote me alongside someone accusing the OP of "a total crock of bullshit" when I never accused him of bullshitting us. From the start I was never really doubting what he had to say, and furthermore I'm guessing he's a pretty nice guy as are most Beach Boys fans. My only point, ever, in this thread, was to question the motivation of posting about the procurement of rare Beach Boys outtakes to a pride of hungry lions (of which I am admittedly one). I just think it could have been handled differently, but my objection was never meant to be framed as a personal insult to Klay who I'm sure is an all-around great guy.

If that's your idea of online abuse, then I invite you to check out YouTube sometime.

EDIT: I'm sorry; I feel bad for getting on you the way I did, but the point I'm trying to make is that it would be helpful if you could differentiate between online bullying and people raising rational points. It's upsetting to me to get lumped in with the trend of cyber-harassment, when all I'm trying to do is understand what his point was for raising this in a public forum. I can dig that maybe he was just trying to get feedback from fans on what exactly he had, so understand that I'd welcome him to post more, and it's not my goal to chase Klay away. Respect... sorry for any bad vibes.

Sorry, for misspelling your name and Klay's. I did use copy and paste to quote your post, though. Now, this would not have been brought up except that Dancing Bear said he hadn't read anywhere that we wanted Klay to share the tracks. Your points are fine. It is the way you worded it. You accused him of something that wasn't the case. He wanted verification, which he got from Jon. It wasn't flaunting, as you accused him of. I understood what he wanted just from reading his original post. Plus, I never expect anyone to share anything unless they offer first. We should never demand anything from anyone.

[Jon Stebbins]

Beyond the possibility of precious unbooted stuff, or even the possibility of outfakery, I think the upgraded sound quality of certain material -- say, something like "Carry Me Home" -- might go a long way in helping to explain/confirm the validity of things.

My thoughts exactly. This version of CMH is the earliest generation I've heard. Very clean, no way it's a needle drop IMO.

[Mikie]

Somehow I've missed the posts where people demanded that Clay should share the tracks or calling him a liar. Maybe the administrators erased them.

From Custom Machine: "Ya know what, Klay?  This sounds like a total crock of bullshit." and that is just one and it was the first sentence of the post.

From Jason Pennick: "The real mystery to me is why the people who discover these rare outtakes feel the need to come on here and crow about it to get us all salivating, only to go on about how they're not going to share it to anyone."

Hey Doctor, with your advanced degree in Beachboyology did they ever teach you how to spell somebody's name correctly when using them as an example of poor form? There's this awesome feature on your computer you might not be aware of called copy and paste-- very effective in getting peoples' names right with a limited chance of error.

By the way, this poster you keep calling out seems to be named Klay, with a "K". Just FYI.

And lest you think I'm being a right asshole towards you right now, I'll deflect that back in your direction and ask you why you feel justified to partially quote me alongside someone accusing the OP of "a total crock of bullshit" when I never accused him of bullshitting us. From the start I was never really doubting what he had to say, and furthermore I'm guessing he's a pretty nice guy as are most Beach Boys fans. My only point, ever, in this thread, was to question the motivation of posting about the procurement of rare Beach Boys outtakes to a pride of hungry lions (of which I am admittedly one). I just think it could have been handled differently, but my objection was never meant to be framed as a personal insult to Klay who I'm sure is an all-around great guy.

If that's your idea of online abuse, then I invite you to check out YouTube sometime.

EDIT: I'm sorry; I feel bad for getting on you the way I did, but the point I'm trying to make is that it would be helpful if you could differentiate between online bullying and people raising rational points. It's upsetting to me to get lumped in with the trend of cyber-harassment, when all I'm trying to do is understand what his point was for raising this in a public forum. I can dig that maybe he was just trying to get feedback from fans on what exactly he had, so understand that I'd welcome him to post more, and it's not my goal to chase Klay away. Respect... sorry for any bad vibes.

Geez, Jason. The Doc is a good guy, and like yourself, posts a lot of positive, productive stuff here. Maybe that was a little much....

[Alan Boyd]

I so want to hear the track "Alan Boyd accidentally erases Good Vibrations vocals"!!!

Awwww, man, I can't believe that got out. I'm utterly mortified.

[the captain]

Look, y'all, in all honesty maybe we should take a collective step back here and stop drooling over these potential scraps. Like clearly everyones' mileage is going to vary here, but at some point we've sort of scraped the bottom of the barrel of these thirty plus years old recordings?

Surely this is an unpopular opinion, but maybe some of you heads might see where I'm coming from with this. There are other bands out there worth exploring who are putting out new music even today.

Amen. I keep buying the newly released stuff, the box sets, etc., and enjoy the sh*t out of them on occasion. But realistically there's not much on them--much less much to be expected on future, similar releases--that's better than the best non-BBs stuff out there (be it new music or other great bands, of which there is and was no shortage).

[Mikie]

So feel free to correct me, but can I go out on a limb and predict a series of reissues of the Warner/Reprise/Caribou/Sony Beach Boys albums this year? And the aforementioned tracks at the beginning of the thread are candidates for bonus tracks to be included? If so, I can wait for the reissues. There's already been a Best-Of comp for 70's stuff. If it comes to pass, this will be the third release of these CD's. Personally, I would love to see re-mixes of the Steve Moffitt engineered tracks.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I so want to hear the track "Alan Boyd accidentally erases Good Vibrations vocals"!!!

I only heard it the once, about a decade ago: as I recall it's about four and a half minutes long and consists of one long - maybe ninety seconds - banshee wail of "SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!" followed by a short silence then maybe three minutes of a strange thumping noise, which I've been told was a head repeatedly hitting a desk. Personally, I'd leave it in the vault.

[The Shift]

So feel free to correct me, but can I go out on a limb and predict a series of reissues of the Warner/Reprise/Caribou/Sony Beach Boys albums this year? And the aforementioned tracks at the beginning of the thread are candidates for bonus tracks to be included? Of so, I can wait for the reissues. There's already been a Best-Of comp for 70's stuff. If it comes to pass, this will be the third release of these CD's. Personally, I would love to see re-mixes of the Steve Moffitt engineered tracks.

Would love to see this but, if it is to come about, I'd also like to see the proposed 14 SACD/vinyl releases scrapped (if they haven't already been… anyone heard anything?) to help clear the way for some decent sales. Since the 2001 two-fers, the re-release programme has become more and more hotchpotch and it would be great to see it rationalised and sensibly ordered.

Let the upcoming Led Zepp re-issues be a model if a model is needed. Each album, individually, with a "companion audio" disc.  In standard, deluxe, vinyl, and ultra-bloody expensive editions.

[Alan Boyd]

I so want to hear the track "Alan Boyd accidentally erases Good Vibrations vocals"!!!

I only heard it the once, about a decade ago: as I recall it's about four and a half minutes long and consists of one long - maybe ninety seconds - banshee wail of "SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!" followed by a short silence then maybe three minutes of a strange thumping noise, which I've been told was a head repeatedly hitting a desk. Personally, I'd leave it in the vault.

Honestly, I thought it was one of those Zeppo Wilson reels.

I still get residual headaches thinking about it.

[guitarfool2002]

Alan: Can you confirm that the legendary "Zeppo Reels" have a track labeled "Surf's Up part 4", which is actually a Presto home-recording acetate disc of his brother Chico drinking champagne while taking a bubble bath? They say he could be heard humming a few bars of a "new" melody as he's lighting up a cigar.   

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm not good at much - no really I'm not, stop saying "yes, you are Andrew !" - but I can think outside of the box and have moments of something desperately close to inspiration. Folk here are postulating that these tracks may form part of a future Brother-era reissue project. But - and to quote Despicable Me, "lightbulb !" - there's already been a Brother-era reissue program, back in 2000. Might this be connected to that ? If that's the case, asking Boyd is pointless as he had nothing to do with those discs.

[Dave Modny]

I'm thinking a quality needledrop of the old California Feelin' boot is a good enough source for "Carry Me Home" to where it would be hard to differentiate. On certain days mine sounds better than some of the CD reissues of Holland I've heard.

I guess it's all in the ears of the beholder then, because my own personal opinion of any of the circulating releases of "Carry Me Home" is that they're not what I would call master tape quality (assuming that these "new"rough mixes were indeed culled from something resembling actual master tapes or multitracks).

But, that's just me.

No, I mean of course you're right. It's not master tape quality, but I think at some point we have to acknowledge we're able to hear it in something approximating the quality of a needle-drop. I will say I don't think I've ever heard "We Got Love" in its studio form any cleaner than I've heard "Carry Me Home", and that's supposedly been provided to me on direct vinyl transfers numerous times from actual copies of the Holland LP.

Not to mention the complaints that came from "master tape" quality stuff on the MIC set. People were bitching left and right about the added delay and effects on tracks like "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling", "Sail Plane Song", etc. etc. Were those not "master tape quality"? I'm really not giving you a hard time either Dave because I was likely one of the ones doing the bitching at the time. But I hope you get my point here. I actually feel quite bad for Alan and Mark because I know they do their best and they have to deal with criticism just as soon as the product hits the streets. There is no win here for anyone except financially, and even that's debatable in terms of whether anyone is really making money off of Beach Boys reissues. I can't imagine they're selling lights out in this day and age of Spotify and downloads.

If anything, I view what the Beach Boys, BRI and Alan Boyd and company are doing as a gift to the fans. I would have no way of being privy to their accounting, but really the more I think of it I think we owe them all an extreme amount of gratitude, not just for what they've released, but for how cool they've been with the underground releases, such as Dennis's stuff, pre-POB reissue. They're not dumb, and they're aware of what goes on.

It's becoming apparent to me that we as a fanbase are never going to be satisfied. Take a good look around and you know that that's the case. I don't think it's quite this bad...yet... but I think the day is approaching when we'll see members fighting amongst each other here tooth and nail over one generation upgrades of the Country Love tapes. Joking, but only slightly..

I'm not trying to hold myself up as some kind of exemplar in this situation because god only knows I've been as greedy as anyone, but upon reflection, I really think the well has run dry, and that this is what my dad would have called an exercise in futility. There's too many other artists out there that keep putting out good music to keep trying to suck the last bit of nourishment out of this rapidly drying teat. And I say that as a Weezer fan-- compared to that fanbase, the Beach Boys fans are a world class example of civility and honor. Actually I really like Beach Boys fans for the most part, but that's neither here nor there...

If that second Smile-era movement of "Surf's Up" turns up with vocals, you'll know where to find me.

No prob at all -- I get ya, Jason.

My point was simply that wholesale sonic upgrades of key tracks -- and there are other tracks here as well that I'd be interested in from that angle -- might be one really good indicator that this puppy is indeed the real deal. Even beyond the prospect of unbooted stuff or, heaven forbid, some kind of "outfakery" going on. And while, for example, something like the original vinyl boot of Landlocked might currently still be the best way to hear those original 1969-'70 Desper mixes (and it is, IMHO), I still like the prospect of obviously hearing those tracks right off the original masters. In those cases, I'd assume finished original mixes still exist in the "vault."

It's also interesting that Klay stresses that these sound like unmastered (read: probably flat) transfers. No goosed treble, etc. Even if some of the tracks are simply rough or reference mixes, they have intrinsic value to many with that alone.

Do I think I'll ever get to hear any of this particular curio in my lifetime? Probably not. Then again, who knows? I get the politics, discretion and sensitivity of something like this. BUT, I'm happy that a Beach Boys fan did, and I also always hold out hope that we will indeed see official releases of what remains of this material one day. In fact, if past history is an indicator, I'd say it's more a matter of when than if. I've been a BBs fan for 40 years now, and I know "never" is a word that simply doesn't exist within the context of this group.


PS - Just so I don't sound *too* noble, I'm still totally envious of those who have heard that rough, unedited, unmastered, noodling-to-its full-conclusion, all faders up mix of WIBNTLA. That's bucket list stuff for me.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Next, the jewel case inserts themselves exactly resemble those of the TDK CD-R brand, which were last made roughly 10 years ago, with each CD-R and insert sold individually in jewel cases.  One side said "Title" and had exactly 22 lines, as do yours (when shown fully, which I think only applies to your first scan or photo) and the other side was in full color with no lines or space for writing.  

Aha !  Knew I'd read this in the thread somewhere. The discs themselves would seem to be at least ten years old (and to forestall the obvious question/objection, anyone here got any 10-year-old unused CDRs ? Thought not). So, maybe my mad musing isn't that mad after all. As Holmes once observed, once you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth.

[Rob Dean]

I so want to hear the track "Alan Boyd accidentally erases Good Vibrations vocals"!!!

I only heard it the once, about a decade ago: as I recall it's about four and a half minutes long and consists of one long - maybe ninety seconds - banshee wail of "SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!" followed by a short silence then maybe three minutes of a strange thumping noise, which I've been told was a head repeatedly hitting a desk. Personally, I'd leave it in the vault.

 

[Dave Modny]

Beyond the possibility of precious unbooted stuff, or even the possibility of outfakery, I think the upgraded sound quality of certain material -- say, something like "Carry Me Home" -- might go a long way in helping to explain/confirm the validity of things.

My thoughts exactly. This version of CMH is the earliest generation I've heard. Very clean, no way it's a needle drop IMO.

Thanks, Jon. That's the answer I was hoping for.

However it came to be, it's definitely another weird, wild and fascinating chapter in this band's history.

[Fall Breaks]

Next, the jewel case inserts themselves exactly resemble those of the TDK CD-R brand, which were last made roughly 10 years ago, with each CD-R and insert sold individually in jewel cases.  One side said "Title" and had exactly 22 lines, as do yours (when shown fully, which I think only applies to your first scan or photo) and the other side was in full color with no lines or space for writing.  

Aha !  Knew I'd read this in the thread somewhere. The discs themselves would seem to be at least ten years old (and to forestall the obvious question/objection, anyone here got any 10-year-old unused CDRs ? Thought not). So, maybe my mad musing isn't that mad after all. As Holmes once observed, once you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth.

I do. Still believe you're right, though.

Carry on.

[Mikie]

But - and to quote Despicable Me, "lightbulb !" - there's already been a Brother-era reissue program, back in 2000. Might this be connected to that ? If that's the case, asking Boyd is pointless as he had nothing to do with those discs.

Seems to me there was a remastered series about 10 years after that, wasn't there? 70's releases, one on Caribou with the long box and one on Capitol with green labels. Unless I'm losing track of time. And asking Boyd about releases on this board are futile anyway. I always direct my questions to the general board. Whether it adds to the speculation or not.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm unaware of any 2010 remastering program.

[Custom Machine]

Next, the jewel case inserts themselves exactly resemble those of the TDK CD-R brand, which were last made roughly 10 years ago, with each CD-R and insert sold individually in jewel cases.  One side said "Title" and had exactly 22 lines, as do yours (when shown fully, which I think only applies to your first scan or photo) and the other side was in full color with no lines or space for writing.  

Aha !  Knew I'd read this in the thread somewhere. The discs themselves would seem to be at least ten years old (and to forestall the obvious question/objection, anyone here got any 10-year-old unused CDRs ? Thought not). So, maybe my mad musing isn't that mad after all. As Holmes once observed, once you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth.

Yeah, that's why I hope Klay will provide more info about the discs and packaging.  If he has original TDK CD-Rs from the late 90s to early 2000's, the discs will have the TDK logo on them, with a white printed background.  (Some later TDK CD-R's were silver, but I'm thinking those came only in a cakebox without jewel case inserts.)  Also, the recordable side of the white TDK's will be blue (or in some cases light green), but not silver, as is so common today.  

A 650mb/74min disc will be older than a 700mb/80min disc, although I'm not certain when that transition took place, perhaps sometime around 2000.  The side of the top jewel case insert (not the U-card on the bottom) with "Title" and 22 blank lines (the top one bold with 21 non-bold lines below) is in back and white, while the other side will most likely be in full color, with the TDK brand name, the capacity in MB and MIN, and probably the compatible recording speeds, for example "1x/2x/4x/6x/8x".

If Klay's discs match the above info it places them in the late 90s to early 2000's era, which, as Andrew points out, could match the period in which the Brother twofers were released.  And even if Klay's discs are copies, including the jewel case inserts, the front of those inserts on which the titles are written also match that era.

[KittyKat]

What if it's a professionally pressed silver CD set made in Asia? Do people really think this is a Willy Wonka Golden Ticket that just happened to turn up in a record store that sells other bootlegs? Could be, but maybe not. I'd like to hear from the buyer at the record store and the person who put it out on the floor. They'd have to think it was either junk or pure gold. I wonder what it sold for.

[bryand]

Now to the question on my mind, will we be lucky enough to get more reissues with some of these bonus tracks???

[Mikie]

I'm unaware of any 2010 remastering program.

Sunflower and Surf's Up remasters. 2009 and 2012.

And again, the Warners/Caribou series of albums were released twice already on CD. Time for bonus tracks to go with the next re-issues.

[petsite]

I so want to hear the track "Alan Boyd accidentally erases Good Vibrations vocals"!!!

I only heard it the once, about a decade ago: as I recall it's about four and a half minutes long and consists of one long - maybe ninety seconds - banshee wail of "SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!" followed by a short silence then maybe three minutes of a strange thumping noise, which I've been told was a head repeatedly hitting a desk. Personally, I'd leave it in the vault.

Honestly, I thought it was one of those Zeppo Wilson reels.

I still get residual headaches thinking about it.

Alan, I don't know how to tell you, but the Zeppo Wilson tape from the Help Me Little Honda sessions is now making the rounds. The one where Zeppo says, "Fellas, I have 2956 words for you. Quit screaming and stop singing when you fart......Brian, I am generous too, Let me give you some money...." Sorry to tell you this, but wanted to make you aware.

[Micha]

Next, the jewel case inserts themselves exactly resemble those of the TDK CD-R brand, which were last made roughly 10 years ago, with each CD-R and insert sold individually in jewel cases.  One side said "Title" and had exactly 22 lines, as do yours (when shown fully, which I think only applies to your first scan or photo) and the other side was in full color with no lines or space for writing.  

Aha !  Knew I'd read this in the thread somewhere. The discs themselves would seem to be at least ten years old (and to forestall the obvious question/objection, anyone here got any 10-year-old unused CDRs ? Thought not). So, maybe my mad musing isn't that mad after all. As Holmes once observed, once you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth.

I do. Still believe you're right, though.

Carry on.

The oldest unused CD-Rs I have are from 2006.