Brother Re-Issues: Proposed Bonus Tracks

[Dancing Bear]

He don't ah? I wouldn't share in here and make it known. People watch this place. He has plenty to lose if they go after him. Let me ask you, would you share with people who act like pricks? Whether something is bullshit or not, you don't say it like that. I would have been offended if asked like that. Also, one should never assume that they are going to be treated and the other party doesn't need to give a reason either. Clay asked for identification help and everyone started feeling entitled to what he had. If you have something like this, of course this is the place to come to find out exactly what you have. He did right by going to Jon and Jon only. He's one of the expert here, not all of us.

You have an opinion and are sticking to it. You think veryone was a prick to Clay and he was right to split. Fine. I have a different opinion but we're starting to go in circles here.

No you and I have not gone in circles. I've barely discussed this with you. Not everyone was a prick, but enough were that I completely understand why he isn't commenting further here. So, now we know where each other stands. I surely hope that you don't ask for gifts like how it was done in here. I doubt you will ever get what you're looking for. Enough said from me on the subject.

Oh, I never ask for gifts. When it's leaked, it's leaked, and I listen like everybody else. 

[Cabinessenceking]

I haven't seen anything insulting written here, but apparently some here don't realise how the internet works/fails to work and that one can never take even explicit insults seriously from someone on some screen somewhere else and has never met you, nor probably will.

I've been on the internet daily for just about twenty-five years now, since the days of Usenet and fetch, and BBSing for years before that.  Over those years I've been netstalked, cyberbullied, DDoSed, hacked, slandered to potential employers, my wife had a hate-site made about her (which got positively gynecological in its obsession), and we once had to help a friend through a court case when a net.nutburger started harassing her at her work.  I've shrugged off all kinds of flaming, trolling, sneering, whining, bitching, threatening, and general attempted cruelty.

The fact that I know how the internet works in *no* way makes me want to tolerate casual nastiness on it.  Kind of the reverse.  It is not the rest of the world's responsibility to grow a thicker skin; it's our responsibility to keep our own behavior civil.

Rant over.  Sorry for the seriousness, folks.

Regards,
Jon Blum

Thank you for your view. I agree with most of what you say and I personally don't try to troll or be rude to people, but if people are rude to me I just absorb it. There are so many trolls around and I consider it a waste of time and effort, a lot of negative energy in fact, to respond to them or even blink an eye.

If one does not have a tough skin while online then you are bound to be grieved. and the troll wins if you feed it with response online or even if you respond emotionally to it.

[Cabinessenceking]

When it's your job potentially at stake, you'd understand.

Whose job? The guy just found these discs at a record store. The two instances when this happened to me - when I outright found something and wasn't given it in confidence (thus no one losing their job etc.), I had the song(s) online for others to hear literally within minutes. I know links can't be posted here, nor requests made, but I don't think anyone's job is at risk over this.

It could result in action being taken against this board and then there would be no board. Not that anyone is making money off it, but it is one of the few Beach Boy forums left out there. The powers that be in BB land read this board and they don't like unauthorized material being circulated.

well, on the Beach Boys fan page they encourage people to catalogue their smile mixes and boots, simply because it was a centrepiece in keeping smile alive and allowing for enough demand so that they could release TSS, which sold quite well I heard. That project and that profit would never have been possible without the boots, yet people wanted the music in HQ, which Capitol could provide.

I would love to hear these alleged new tracks, and very willing to buy these albums if they contained new tracks.

[KittyKat]

Has anyone thought to e-mail CD Trader? Klay says it was in the Valley, so I assume CD Trader in Tarzana. Contact info here:

http://www.cdtradertarzana.com/id4.html

[Jason]

I would love to hear these alleged new tracks, and very willing to buy these albums if they contained new tracks.

Or *gasp* they could actually open that elusive Beach Boys Central website! 

[drbeachboy]

When it's your job potentially at stake, you'd understand.

Whose job? The guy just found these discs at a record store. The two instances when this happened to me - when I outright found something and wasn't given it in confidence (thus no one losing their job etc.), I had the song(s) online for others to hear literally within minutes. I know links can't be posted here, nor requests made, but I don't think anyone's job is at risk over this.

It could result in action being taken against this board and then there would be no board. Not that anyone is making money off it, but it is one of the few Beach Boy forums left out there. The powers that be in BB land read this board and they don't like unauthorized material being circulated.

well, on the Beach Boys fan page they encourage people to catalogue their smile mixes and boots, simply because it was a centrepiece in keeping smile alive and allowing for enough demand so that they could release TSS, which sold quite well I heard. That project and that profit would never have been possible without the boots, yet people wanted the music in HQ, which Capitol could provide.

I would love to hear these alleged new tracks, and very willing to buy these albums if they contained new tracks.

They needed boots because some of the original recordings were stolen to make those boots. I doubt that too many people posted about what they had. I surely wouldn't if I owned copies of that stuff. But you? Be my guest.

[Dave Modny]

And all I ever seem find in my local music haunts these days are 15 used copies of the first Hootie & The Blowfish CD.


That is, nice score. Enjoy.

[LeeDempsey]

I cannot see how anyone else can take anything posted here as evidence.

Jon Stebbins posted that he had heard excerpts, and believed them to be the real deal.  I would consider that to be third-party corroboration from a trusted individual -- unless the implication is that Jon is in collusion with Klay -- which would be a serious accusation.

Now if another expert (e.g. AGD) were to listen to the same snippets, and then come on here and offer an opinion to the contrary, well, we would be back to square one...

Lee

I wouldn't put myself in the category of "expert," but thanks to Jon ( ) I was able to listen to segments of several of these tracks over the phone.  Now granted the sound waves probably went from analog tape-to-24 bit Pro Tools digital file-to-16-bit WAV file-to-compressed MP3 file-to-computer speaker-to-telephone microphone-to-cellular digital-to-telephone speaker, but in my opinion the snippets I heard from these CDs are legit.  The tracks I listened to sound like all faders-up rough mixes of proposed bonus tracks for '70's album re-releases. My listening time was brief, but there were instrumental and vocal elements that I've never heard on any collector tape, boot CD, or acetate -- some of which were obviously meant to be left out of the final mixes (hence my comment about "all faders up").

Months ago a former Capitol marketing executive was supposedly getting rid of a bunch of promo CDs from her collection.  I speculated then that it might be how the Capitol in-house CD with "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" on it got leaked.  That could also be the case here.

I look forward to seeing how this plays out!

Lee

[Jim V.]

Content question: why might "Burlesque" not be on the Surf's Up listing?

I'm pretty sure that it's unfortunately not in the vaults, if it was ever recorded in the first place.

[PhilCohen]

While these proposed expanded editions are unlikely to ever see the light of day, it is always possible that some future archival CD projects ARE presently under development, but that this time, there will be no initial official announcement until all of the group members and estates sign on the dotted line to give their permissions. This way, the fans will not be put through a tense 26-month "Wall of Secrecy", like the one that built up during the negotiations for the "Made in California" boxed set.

We got plenty of Beach Boys archival material in recent years("The Smile Sessions" & "Made in California") and the "copyright extension" collection("The Big Beat 1963") was an unexpected bonus. If more archival Beach Boys releases appear, I'll buy them, but if they don't materialize, I won't be broken-hearted.

[Custom Machine]

I wouldn't put myself in the category of "expert," but thanks to Jon ( ) I was able to listen to segments of several of these tracks over the phone.  Now granted the sound waves probably went from analog tape-to-24 bit Pro Tools digital file-to-16-bit WAV file-to-compressed MP3 file-to-computer speaker-to-telephone microphone-to-cellular digital-to-telephone speaker, but on my opinion the snippets I heard from these CDs are legit.  The tracks I listened to sound like all faders-up rough mixes of proposed bonus tracks for '70's album re-releases. My listening time was brief, but there were instrumental and vocal elements that I've never heard on any collector tape, boot CD, or acetate -- some of which were obviously meant to be left out of the final mixes (hence my comment about "all faders up").

Months ago a former Capitol marketing executive was supposedly getting rid of a bunch of promo CDs from her collection.  I speculated then that it might be how the Capitol in-house CD with "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" on it got leaked.  That could also be the case here.

I look forward to seeing how this plays out!

Lee

Well, verification by both Jon S. and Lee D. is definitely good enough for me!  My apologies to Klay for beginning my post of May 22 with "This sounds like a total crock of bullsh*t."  But I continued with, "That being said, I'd like to believe you've stumbled across something really cool," and ended with, "So do us all a favor, in addition to my requests above, send a few of the ultra-rare files to Lee Dempsey and Andrew Doe and let them report back to the board.  Or, at the very least, give 'em a call and play the songs over the phone."  

I hope Klay will repost in this thread and tell us more about his find.  For example, does it appear that the printing on the jewel case inserts is someone's original handwriting or was the original handwriting photocopied or scanned and reprinted?  Is it a CD-R or did someone go to the trouble of traditionally manufacturing a bunch of these?  What are the notations on the discs?  Don't know if Klay will answer these questions, but I'm asking them in trying to get a handle on whether this CD appears to be a bootleg or a one-of-a-kind (or maybe very few of a kind) item.

Lee Dempsey's earlier hypotheses that perhaps the record store has the original and had an employee burn a copy with handwritten notes, so they could keep the original and it didn't look like they were selling something direct from Capitol (with some potential distribution disclaimers on it) sounds very plausible.  Like he said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.  And if the rare stuff on this CD set is all faders-up, then even if these tracks freely circulate, we'd still need to wait for an official release for proper mixes of these tracks.

[Jason Penick]

Somehow I've missed the posts where people demanded that Clay should share the tracks or calling him a liar. Maybe the administrators erased them.

From Custom Machine: "Ya know what, Klay?  This sounds like a total crock of bullshit." and that is just one and it was the first sentence of the post.

From Jason Pennick: "The real mystery to me is why the people who discover these rare outtakes feel the need to come on here and crow about it to get us all salivating, only to go on about how they're not going to share it to anyone."

Hey Doctor, with your advanced degree in Beachboyology did they ever teach you how to spell somebody's name correctly when using them as an example of poor form? There's this awesome feature on your computer you might not be aware of called copy and paste-- very effective in getting peoples' names right with a limited chance of error.

By the way, this poster you keep calling out seems to be named Klay, with a "K". Just FYI.

And lest you think I'm being a right asshole towards you right now, I'll deflect that back in your direction and ask you why you feel justified to partially quote me alongside someone accusing the OP of "a total crock of bullshit" when I never accused him of bullshitting us. From the start I was never really doubting what he had to say, and furthermore I'm guessing he's a pretty nice guy as are most Beach Boys fans. My only point, ever, in this thread, was to question the motivation of posting about the procurement of rare Beach Boys outtakes to a pride of hungry lions (of which I am admittedly one). I just think it could have been handled differently, but my objection was never meant to be framed as a personal insult to Klay who I'm sure is an all-around great guy.

If that's your idea of online abuse, then I invite you to check out YouTube sometime.

EDIT: I'm sorry; I feel bad for getting on you the way I did, but the point I'm trying to make is that it would be helpful if you could differentiate between online bullying and people raising rational points. It's upsetting to me to get lumped in with the trend of cyber-harassment, when all I'm trying to do is understand what his point was for raising this in a public forum. I can dig that maybe he was just trying to get feedback from fans on what exactly he had, so understand that I'd welcome him to post more, and it's not my goal to chase Klay away. Respect... sorry for any bad vibes.

[The Shift]

Lee's word convinces me. Still perplexed by some of the wording on the tracklist which seems "in-house" but might indicate an illicit release. Which would be very naughty and reprehensible.

Look forward to a legit release. Like Phil says we've had a wealth of riches recently and I'm still working my way through those and discovering new exquisities. There's time yet.

Lee, the way you describe these mixes as "faders up" suggests there might never be a commercial release of them in these versions as they'll need mixing and mastering first, which makes this disc set pretty unique. I reckon it wouldn't be booted until after a commercial version, on the strength of that, so that it picks up sales as a companion listening experience.

[Andrew G. Doe]

What I've heard is confusing, at least to me (I'm easily confused): there are undoubted elements that cannot be anything but previously uncirculated/unbooted BB archive material. No question. But, I also hear digital artefacts, vocals that I cannot identify, instruments that sound sampled and what sounds more like an inept mashup than a period 16-track with all faders up. This is only my cracked notion, but it's almost as if someone has truly got 'new' archive material and, for reasons best known to themselves, decided to jazz it up in a home studio. I wish Boyd was available for comment, but that can wait, of course.

I'm not pointing a finger at Klay as the putative perpetrator (if indeed there be one, of course), please understand. He truly has something fascinating, something I'm sure BRI & Capitol would/will be most interested in talking to him about, but to these ears there's still something that doesn't ring 100% true. And, of course, those tracklists are still internally problematic.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Lee, the way you describe these mixes as "faders up" suggests there might never be a commercial release of them in these versions as they'll need mixing and mastering first...

Both the stereo mix of the single version of "Cotton Fields" and "R&R Music" on MiC are 'faders up' releases. 

[Dave Modny]

Beyond the possibility of precious unbooted stuff, or even the possibility of outfakery, I think the upgraded sound quality of certain material -- say, something like "Carry Me Home" -- might go a long way in helping to explain/confirm the validity of things. Even if they were just rough mixes. Any observations on that one (or others along that line)?  Maybe any of the folks who didn't just hear through a telephone?

Of course, I'd also be interested in knowing if the unedited version of WIBNTLA here matches the version on that other in-house CD fairly close? Both in "noodling" length or "all faders up" terms.

[Jason Penick]

Beyond the possibility of precious unbooted stuff, or even the possibility of outfakery, I think the upgraded sound quality of certain material -- say, something like "Carry Me Home" -- might go a long way in helping to explain/confirm the validity of things. Even if they were just rough mixes. Any observations on that one (or others along that line)?  Maybe any of the folks who didn't just hear through a telephone?

Of course, I'd also be interested in knowing if the unedited version of WIBNTLA here matches the version on that other in-house CD fairly close? Both in "noodling" length or "all faders up" terms.

I'm thinking a quality needledrop of the old California Feelin' boot is a good enough source for "Carry Me Home" to where it would be hard to differentiate. On certain days mine sounds better than some of the CD reissues of Holland I've heard.

Look, y'all, in all honesty maybe we should take a collective step back here and stop drooling over these potential scraps. Like clearly everyones' mileage is going to vary here, but at some point we've sort of scraped the bottom of the barrel of these thirty plus years old recordings?

Surely this is an unpopular opinion, but maybe some of you heads might see where I'm coming from with this. There are other bands out there worth exploring who are putting out new music even today.

[Jay]

I'm curios about the "15 Big Ones mix" of "When Girls Get Together". Especially since the "original mix" is listed separately.

[Dave Modny]

I'm thinking a quality needledrop of the old California Feelin' boot is a good enough source for "Carry Me Home" to where it would be hard to differentiate. On certain days mine sounds better than some of the CD reissues of Holland I've heard.

I guess it's all in the ears of the beholder then, because my own personal opinion of any of the circulating releases of "Carry Me Home" is that they're not what I would call master tape quality (assuming that these "new"rough mixes were indeed culled from something resembling actual master tapes or multitracks).

But, that's just me.

[Dave Modny]

.

[Jason Penick]

I'm thinking a quality needledrop of the old California Feelin' boot is a good enough source for "Carry Me Home" to where it would be hard to differentiate. On certain days mine sounds better than some of the CD reissues of Holland I've heard.

I guess it's all in the ears of the beholder then, because my own personal opinion of any of the circulating releases of "Carry Me Home" is that they're not what I would call master tape quality (assuming that these "new"rough mixes were indeed culled from something resembling actual master tapes or multitracks).

But, that's just me.

No, I mean of course you're right. It's not master tape quality, but I think at some point we have to acknowledge we're able to hear it in something approximating the quality of a needle-drop. I will say I don't think I've ever heard "We Got Love" in its studio form any cleaner than I've heard "Carry Me Home", and that's supposedly been provided to me on direct vinyl transfers numerous times from actual copies of the Holland LP.

Not to mention the complaints that came from "master tape" quality stuff on the MIC set. People were bitching left and right about the added delay and effects on tracks like "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling", "Sail Plane Song", etc. etc. Were those not "master tape quality"? I'm really not giving you a hard time either Dave because I was likely one of the ones doing the bitching at the time. But I hope you get my point here. I actually feel quite bad for Alan and Mark because I know they do their best and they have to deal with criticism just as soon as the product hits the streets. There is no win here for anyone except financially, and even that's debatable in terms of whether anyone is really making money off of Beach Boys reissues. I can't imagine they're selling lights out in this day and age of Spotify and downloads.

If anything, I view what the Beach Boys, BRI and Alan Boyd and company are doing as a gift to the fans. I would have no way of being privy to their accounting, but really the more I think of it I think we owe them all an extreme amount of gratitude, not just for what they've released, but for how cool they've been with the underground releases, such as Dennis's stuff, pre-POB reissue. They're not dumb, and they're aware of what goes on.

It's becoming apparent to me that we as a fanbase are never going to be satisfied. Take a good look around and you know that that's the case. I don't think it's quite this bad...yet... but I think the day is approaching when we'll see members fighting amongst each other here tooth and nail over one generation upgrades of the Country Love tapes. Joking, but only slightly..

I'm not trying to hold myself up as some kind of exemplar in this situation because god only knows I've been as greedy as anyone, but upon reflection, I really think the well has run dry, and that this is what my dad would have called an exercise in futility. There's too many other artists out there that keep putting out good music to keep trying to suck the last bit of nourishment out of this rapidly drying teat. And I say that as a Weezer fan-- compared to that fanbase, the Beach Boys fans are a world class example of civility and honor. Actually I really like Beach Boys fans for the most part, but that's neither here nor there...

If that second Smile-era movement of "Surf's Up" turns up with vocals, you'll know where to find me.

[Mike's Beard]

Well personally there's plenty more I'd like to hear, but the real question is how much of what's left does BRI consider fit for release?

[Yorick]

My guess is these cd's are totally real and, very recent. It's been 13 years since the last Brother remasters, it's about time for an upgrade with added bonuses. My guess is they'll release stand-alone reissues of every album, with the remaining time filled up with bonustracks.

[Jason Penick]

Well personally there's plenty more I'd like to hear, but the real question is how much of what's left does BRI consider fit for release?

Hey just for the record man, I agree completely with you. Of course as fans we all want to hear those nuggets that are still chilling in the vaults. I guess I'd just like to say time out and say thank you to everybody involved for getting us what we have so far.

If you think about it-- between the 2fer bonus tracks, Endless Harmony, Hawthorne, POB reissue, Good Vibes box, MIC box and Smile Sessions-- we're really not suffering here.

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud because of course I'd love to hear every last scrap of tape I possibly can; but I'm just basically calling for a brief time out for appreciation for the people who brought all these great outtakes to us in the first place. Actually U.S. Memorial Day seems like the perfect time to do so.

Anyway carry on. Sorry to rant, and I didn't mean to slow your roll here at all, so I'll shut up. I was just trying to add some perspective to remind us what we've already been lucky enough to have been granted officially, and in nice quality I might add.

[The Shift]

Lee, the way you describe these mixes as "faders up" suggests there might never be a commercial release of them in these versions as they'll need mixing and mastering first...

Both the stereo mix of the single version of "Cotton Fields" and "R&R Music" on MiC are 'faders up' releases. 

I love the smell of clarification in the morning!