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Author Topic: Rolling Stone - Beach Boys Play Tour - Jeff replaces Christian Love  (Read 105583 times)
pixletwin
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« Reply #225 on: May 17, 2014, 07:48:03 PM »

I'm too lazy to search for the post of people that Brian has had a falling out with, of sorts. I don't remember VDP being on that poster's list. Am I right, he should be?

Yep. Van Dyke has quite a few passive aggressive digs at Brian sprinkled into his Twitter feed. Today, he seemed to imply that he, Van Dyke may have had a hand in the musical part of "Smile," not just the lyrics. I'm not sure he meant his musical style "inspired" Brian or he actually wrote some of the music, but it was interesting.  I'm not sure I've ever seen him claim that before.

That is not at all what that tweet from VDP was saying. He was taking a dig at the music site which cited Surf's Up as Brian Wilson lyrics. Nothing more nor less than that.
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alf wiedersehen
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« Reply #226 on: May 17, 2014, 07:51:28 PM »

Maybe I misread it, but I remember reading that Van Dyke helped with some of Smile's arrangements.
Anyone know any more detail on that? Or am I wrong?
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« Reply #227 on: May 17, 2014, 08:52:37 PM »

It would seem incredibly bizarre ( even for the BB) for Brian to ask Matt to be in his band, but have no interest in touring with Al at all or that Matt would accept if Al was completely out of the loop.
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« Reply #228 on: May 17, 2014, 09:11:40 PM »

It would seem incredibly bizarre ( even for the BB) for Brian to ask Matt to be in his band, but have no interest in touring with Al at all or that Matt would accept if Al was completely out of the loop.

Mike did it!
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« Reply #229 on: May 17, 2014, 09:55:41 PM »

I really hope Al tours with Brian again. They seem to have a great relationship. I would love to see them do Wake The World, one of the few co-writes between them and I think it would sound great.
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« Reply #230 on: May 17, 2014, 10:37:59 PM »

Where are people getting the idea Al won't be playing with Brian? They were just pictured on FB in the studio together.

Al and Dave are just playing one show with M&B. I am starting a rumor that it's a try out show because Mike is retiring in 2015 for health reasons.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #231 on: May 17, 2014, 11:02:54 PM »

Where are people getting the idea Al won't be playing with Brian? They were just pictured on FB in the studio together.

Al and Dave are just playing one show with M&B. I am starting a rumor that it's a try out show because Mike is retiring in 2015 for health reasons.

You know this for sure ?  Smiley

Maybe I misread it, but I remember reading that Van Dyke helped with some of Smile's arrangements.
Anyone know any more detail on that? Or am I wrong?

Can't say if he's changed his stance recently, but when I asked him about that last millennium, he was very unequivocal: he did the words, nothing else.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 11:06:09 PM by The Legendary AGD » Logged

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SurfRiderHawaii
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« Reply #232 on: May 17, 2014, 11:29:58 PM »

What you know AGD? As our resident insider, you missed 1. Jeff joining Mike's band 2. Matt joining Brian's 3. Al and David playing with Mike.
Not even one of your cryptic "I know but can't tell ya".  Grin

Hell, nobody knows anything with these guys. Post C50, Mike and Al bickering.
Now, buddies again. For me, the more they do together the better. But my rumor is Mike will retire in 2015 and Al/David will step in.
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« Reply #233 on: May 17, 2014, 11:34:56 PM »

1 - I know...

2 - I know...

3 - I know...

4 - I know, but I can't tell you (just for you, Greg).

I don't feel impelled to comment on everything that goes on in the Whirled of Wilson, and I also work most days. This one blindsided most folk, which is unusual as the leaks in BBWorld have been legion down the decades. Let's see what the summer brings us.

That rumor ? I know the source. Unreliable.  Grin
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SurfRiderHawaii
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« Reply #234 on: May 17, 2014, 11:43:20 PM »

1. Don't we all
2. Don't we all
3. Don't we all
4. You don't know how to spell my name. Do better research.  Grin

Interesting you heard the same rumor. We can only hope our heroes live to ripe old ages past 100.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 12:34:31 AM by OregonRiverRider » Logged

"Brian is The Beach Boys. He is the band. We're his f***ing messengers. He is all of it. Period. We're nothing. He's everything" - Dennis Wilson
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« Reply #235 on: May 18, 2014, 12:23:04 AM »

Where are people getting the idea Al won't be playing with Brian? They were just pictured on FB in the studio together.

Al and Dave are just playing one show with M&B. I am starting a rumor that it's a try out show because Mike is retiring in 2015 for health reasons.

You know this for sure ?  Smiley


We can only go by what the lead singer and owner of the brand has said at this stage. July 5th, Jones Beach although I now suspect this may change.

 

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« Reply #236 on: May 18, 2014, 11:11:40 AM »

They should let people know in advance. Al and Dave being at a particular show is somewhat more important than a guest appearance by John Stamos. Who knows, it might help ticket sales at those shows.
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« Reply #237 on: May 18, 2014, 01:18:29 PM »

I'm too lazy to search for the post of people that Brian has had a falling out with, of sorts. I don't remember VDP being on that poster's list. Am I right, he should be?

Yep. Van Dyke has quite a few passive aggressive digs at Brian sprinkled into his Twitter feed. Today, he seemed to imply that he, Van Dyke may have had a hand in the musical part of "Smile," not just the lyrics. I'm not sure he meant his musical style "inspired" Brian or he actually wrote some of the music, but it was interesting.  I'm not sure I've ever seen him claim that before.
I just listened to Live at the Ash Grove again and believe the same as before. I believe VDP actually wrote some of the music and I take his meaning as fact.
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« Reply #238 on: May 18, 2014, 01:42:32 PM »

The issue of Van Dyke's role in Smile's music is something I've posted here several times, and I've thought (notice I said thought rather than 'know') he was more involved than people may think. The whole nature of collaboration involves sharing ideas, and when it's firing on all cylinders as it was at times during Brian's and Van Dyke's Smile collaboration, the ideas are free-flowing and also free-form: The ideas get presented and come out at a rapid pace, and at those times there is no one there with a scorecard keeping track of who did what.

Because that is not the point - the point is to create. And however those ideas turn into something concrete involves a give and take process. Simple as that.

I came to think that way by reading, hearing, and re-reading the observations of people who were actually there to witness it. And by nearly every account, both Van Dyke and Brian were being inspired by each other on a regular basis as they worked. Each one was so unique in their creative process and talent, and each brought new ideas to the other which opened up new directions and possibilities in the creative process, that it could be whirlwind of activity as well as a source of conflict between them. And both of those things happened during Smile.

Consider the reports of those observers watching Brian and Van Dyke working in the studio during Smile. A flurry of activity and ideas was happening as the two of them worked on various Smile sessions, and the energy according to some of the observers was awesome to witness.

Now, consider those observations if Van Dyke was *only* the guy who wrote the lyrics...what was all of that creative energy in the studio all about? Lyrics alone?

The bigger picture has to be considered, and sometimes it requires reading between the lines as much as seeing the actual words in some of these reports, especially with Smile.
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« Reply #239 on: May 18, 2014, 01:47:37 PM »

I think we're all reading tea leaves with regard to what Jeff's decision means in the greater scheme of things. Since I'm not an insider and I don't play one on TV, I'd suggest the following:

a) Jeff knows that while Brian may continue to perform, the live work will diminish significantly from here on.

b) The movie will beget a new album - surely one album will ride on its coat tails.

c) Bizniss being bizniss, you could probably count on a 20-30 stop tour encompassing a new release and a new movie. Anything beyond that will depend upon sales and ergo, major label relationships (why these guys are wedded to that major label dinosaur relationship is beyond me, but old habits die hard)

Christian stepping back probably provided Jeff a golden opportunity to continue regular work over the next few years. I'm not surprised he took the opportunity. He was always more of greatest hits guy than the others in Brian's band.

Brian will be fine on tour; I've heard Scottie cover for him as well on cues and such. If I had my druthers, I'd rather he be granted the opportunity to enjoy the freedom of the studio, and gut out the occasional necessary gig. As long as these gigs are events - ala TLOS, the Beck experiment, Gershwin. All of these were highly interesting, emotionally satisfying events. Please...no greatest hits shows. Just events.

Have to say however...Kittykat's (deleted) comment almost made me do a spit-take of my morning French Roast. To whit:

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« Reply #240 on: May 18, 2014, 01:54:30 PM »

Regarding the VDP/Smile collaboration, total agreement with Guitarfool; when it's clicking, the lines merge. It's not like Tony Asher was singing melody lines for Pet Sounds, whereas Van Dyke obviously has his own melodic ability. I can easily see how each party may interpret the sessions slightly differently.

What puzzles me is how all these comments are dribbling out nowadays. Surely there must have been some hard feelings over the box set release. VDP got slighted somehow and the nitty gritty hasn't been fully revealed.
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ToneBender631
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« Reply #241 on: May 18, 2014, 02:10:23 PM »

Regarding the VDP/Smile collaboration, total agreement with Guitarfool; when it's clicking, the lines merge. It's not like Tony Asher was singing melody lines for Pet Sounds, whereas Van Dyke obviously has his own melodic ability. I can easily see how each party may interpret the sessions slightly differently.

What puzzles me is how all these comments are dribbling out nowadays. Surely there must have been some hard feelings over the box set release. VDP got slighted somehow and the nitty gritty hasn't been fully revealed.

VDP got a lot more credit for Smile back in '04 than he did this time around, which probably didn't sit very well. But really, BWPS and TSS are two very different things, so it makes sense  that VDP was pushed to the side a bit with the box set. TSS is a historical document of recording sessions, released under the Beach Boys name. It's as much about "Smile" as it is Brian as producer, The Beach Boys as vocalists, and The Wrecking Crew as studio musicians. If I want to learn about how they made their recordings, vocal technique, and the evolution of the songs in the context of recording, I put on TSS and set a few hours aside. If I want to enjoy a completed piece of art by BW and VDP, considered by many to be one of the greatest albums ever completed, I'll go put on BWPS.

But back on topic, this change seems like a good thing for everyone. Jeff gets to play more shows with less stress (he's earned it), Christian gets to get off the merry-go-round and enjoy cutting his own path a bit, and Matt returns to the fold (as he should, given his vocal talent).
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 02:15:00 PM by ToneBender631 » Logged
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« Reply #242 on: May 18, 2014, 02:13:10 PM »

On the other hand, VDP consistently says he only wrote lyrics.

On the third hand, is the eyewitness always infallibly reliable? Their memory may just be off. Tricky.
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« Reply #243 on: May 18, 2014, 02:14:22 PM »

On the other hand, VDP consistently says he only wrote lyrics.

On the third hand, is the eyewitness always infallibly reliable? Their memory may just be off. Tricky.

Are you suggesting that time, the occasional substance abuse and personal bias may have had an impact on the memory of a bunch of 65-70 year olds?
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« Reply #244 on: May 18, 2014, 02:44:17 PM »

On the other hand, VDP consistently says he only wrote lyrics.

On the third hand, is the eyewitness always infallibly reliable? Their memory may just be off. Tricky.

Are you suggesting that time, the occasional substance abuse and personal bias may have had an impact on the memory of a bunch of 65-70 year olds?

Maybe. Has anyone else had VDP protest that the events were a long time ago and the memory was short, or words to that effect? On the fourth hand, he may be dead on in this particular regard.
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« Reply #245 on: May 18, 2014, 03:01:22 PM »

Memories which were less than a year old (Anderle), less than two years old (Vosse), memories from someone who was at Brian's house regularly in 1967 (Volman), and assorted others are the ones I'm considering. And no, i don't think it's old age or fading memory or whatever other excuse comes in to cloud the point.

And Van Dyke for decades has taken a humble approach to describing his role, to the point of deliberately downplaying his role. He remained very grateful and projected that humility when discussing Smile, for the majority of public interviews.

If anyone knows what he has said in private for the past 45 years, meaning the 99% of the man's life that fans *don't have access to*, and can change the narrative, let's hear it.

So Van Dyke has said certain things now that he hasn't in the past, that's life.  Smiley

There are things we all hold very close and even keep secret which one day in the future we may feel like opening up about, for whatever reason. Again, that's life.
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« Reply #246 on: May 18, 2014, 03:07:08 PM »

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« Reply #247 on: May 18, 2014, 03:07:57 PM »

And trying to play the old substance abuse/failing memory card just doesn't wash with me in 9 out of 10 cases because it's simply not applicable, it's the biggest distraction and cop-out short of changing the subject entirely. If anything, a failing memory reasoning can be applied to anyone at any time, which is why I think it's such a bullshit excuse.

And blaming drug use or substance abuse would discredit the overwhelming majority of musicians and the rock music community in general up to the present day, so let's discount everything they say and blame it on "the drugs" when a quote disagrees with someone's opinion.  Grin
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« Reply #248 on: May 18, 2014, 03:23:35 PM »

I'm pretty sure Van Dyke had a strong musical influence on BW at the time and therefore influenced Smile's music whether he wrote any of it or not. When I hear an old, pre-Smile era song of Van Dyke's such as "High Coin," I can hear his keyboard style influence on parts of "Windchimes" and "H & V." His lyrics also dictated the musical direction of Smile because they're so much more free form than Tony Asher's or Love/Christian/Usher of the surf & car era. I just found it a little surprising that he'd drop a hint like that on Twitter, no matter how he meant it. He seems resentful these days. There was another tweet that seemed to be a dig at Brian's need for ego affirmation.  Then others that seem to point to their no longer being on speaking terms. Yet why bring it up if he didn't care about Brian in a personal way.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 03:24:38 PM by KittyKat » Logged
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« Reply #249 on: May 18, 2014, 03:27:52 PM »

So, I must've missed something - is Matt J. Brian's official falsettist now? I only heard about him coming to lay down vocals for the album.

Yes, Brian (or his representative) has said he`s asked Matt to tour with him.

Interesting to see how a thread about Jeff Foskett replacing Christian Love can morph into a Smile discussion though...
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