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RangeRoverA1
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« Reply #125 on: May 18, 2016, 12:11:28 AM »

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« Reply #126 on: May 18, 2016, 05:17:20 AM »

I'm going to go ahead and add higher education to my list of pet peeves. 

In American society, it can be tough to land a job without a college degree.  Unfortunately, a bachelor's degree requires you to take general education courses, which are basically a rehash of high school courses.  You'll also be required to take courses that fulfill a requirement for something that has nothing to do with your major. 

The first time I went to college, I majored in Radio.  I had to take three art courses, including an Acting class.  Waste of time.  To fulfill gen ed requirements, I've taken classes on The History of Rock and Roll, Women in Music, Sports and Society, The Works of Alfred Hitchcock, and several others.  I've written college reports on Pink Floyd, The Simpsons, and This is Spinal Tap. 

A bachelor's degree should be obtained in two years instead of four, but if the colleges didn't have these extra requirements, they wouldn't get two more years of tuition out of you. 

Not to mention the text books.  The publishers put out a new edition each year so that the one you spent $100-$200 is worthless by the end of the semester. 

Oh, an another recent pet peeve of mine - gender reveal parties. 
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« Reply #127 on: May 18, 2016, 06:21:14 AM »

In elementary school (normally kindergarten to 5th grade about ages 5-11) we don't have lockers because the kids have fewer books and they just spend the day in one classroom except for special classes. But starting in middle school, the kids go to different classrooms for different subjects and have different books for each subject, so carrying them all around from room to room would be bad on the back. So between classes you go to your locker and switch books. By this theory, you only have one or two books to carry at any time, so a bag isn't necessary, but it's not against the rules if you want to use one. Often your locker is close enough to the room that putting your books in a bag, walking 20 steps, and taking them out again would seem pointless.
In the US, the age for getting a driver's license varies from state to state, but it's normally 16-17. Much of the US was developed after the advent of cars and there are a lot of places you can't go anywhere, not even to a little shop, without a car, so letting kids get cars a little younger is very useful to some parents. However, I agree that 16 is young for such a responsibility and kids get in many more accidents than adults.

Regarding KDS - I'm a firm believer in the value of a liberal arts education, though the point is lessened by the poor quality of many of our institutions. Though I will agree that it doesn't make sense for people hiring for positions that don't need thinking skills to require a college education.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 06:44:27 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #128 on: May 18, 2016, 06:46:41 AM »

In elementary school (normally kindergarten to 5th grade about ages 5-11) we don't have lockers because the kids have fewer books and they just spend the day in one classroom except for special classes. But starting in middle school, the kids go to different classrooms for different subjects and have different books for each subject, so carrying them all around from room to room would be bad on the back. So between classes you go to your locker and switch books. By this theory, you only have one or two books to carry at any time, so a bag isn't necessary, but it's not against the rules if you want to use one. Often your locker is close enough to the room that putting your books in a bag, walking 20 steps, and taking them out again would seem pointless.
In the US, the age for getting a driver's license varies from state to state, but it's normally 16-17. Much of the US was developed after the advent of cars and there are a lot of places you can't go anywhere, not even to a little shop, without a car, so letting kids get cars a little younger is very useful to some parents. However, I agree that 16 is young for such a responsibility and kids get in many more accidents than adults.

Regarding KDS - I'm a firm believer in the value of a liberal arts education, though the point is lessened by the poor quality of many of our institutions.

Emily,

I'll agree that there's value in a liberal arts education.  I just object to the very high cost and that many courses have little to do with a chosen major, and it's designed this way just to keep a student there for the required four years (120 credits).  I especially object to the gen ed courses.  Some of the ones I had to take as a college freshman were just a pointless repeat of high school classes. 
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« Reply #129 on: May 18, 2016, 06:53:15 AM »

In elementary school (normally kindergarten to 5th grade about ages 5-11) we don't have lockers because the kids have fewer books and they just spend the day in one classroom except for special classes. But starting in middle school, the kids go to different classrooms for different subjects and have different books for each subject, so carrying them all around from room to room would be bad on the back. So between classes you go to your locker and switch books. By this theory, you only have one or two books to carry at any time, so a bag isn't necessary, but it's not against the rules if you want to use one. Often your locker is close enough to the room that putting your books in a bag, walking 20 steps, and taking them out again would seem pointless.
In the US, the age for getting a driver's license varies from state to state, but it's normally 16-17. Much of the US was developed after the advent of cars and there are a lot of places you can't go anywhere, not even to a little shop, without a car, so letting kids get cars a little younger is very useful to some parents. However, I agree that 16 is young for such a responsibility and kids get in many more accidents than adults.

Regarding KDS - I'm a firm believer in the value of a liberal arts education, though the point is lessened by the poor quality of many of our institutions.

Emily,

I'll agree that there's value in a liberal arts education.  I just object to the very high cost and that many courses have little to do with a chosen major, and it's designed this way just to keep a student there for the required four years (120 credits).  I especially object to the gen ed courses.  Some of the ones I had to take as a college freshman were just a pointless repeat of high school classes. 
I think we agree about 90%. I think the cost is ridiculous. And I agree that for many people the general requirements are a waste of time and money and that in college all the classes should be a lot more rigorous than in high school and they often aren't. Do you know if there are general requirements for an Associate's degree? If not, the best answer would be for employers who are requiring someone with specific training but not generalized thinking skills should consider an Associate's degree to be perfectly adequate. And a Bachelor's would be for jobs needing more generalized critical ability.
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KDS
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« Reply #130 on: May 18, 2016, 06:59:09 AM »

In elementary school (normally kindergarten to 5th grade about ages 5-11) we don't have lockers because the kids have fewer books and they just spend the day in one classroom except for special classes. But starting in middle school, the kids go to different classrooms for different subjects and have different books for each subject, so carrying them all around from room to room would be bad on the back. So between classes you go to your locker and switch books. By this theory, you only have one or two books to carry at any time, so a bag isn't necessary, but it's not against the rules if you want to use one. Often your locker is close enough to the room that putting your books in a bag, walking 20 steps, and taking them out again would seem pointless.
In the US, the age for getting a driver's license varies from state to state, but it's normally 16-17. Much of the US was developed after the advent of cars and there are a lot of places you can't go anywhere, not even to a little shop, without a car, so letting kids get cars a little younger is very useful to some parents. However, I agree that 16 is young for such a responsibility and kids get in many more accidents than adults.

Regarding KDS - I'm a firm believer in the value of a liberal arts education, though the point is lessened by the poor quality of many of our institutions.

Emily,

I'll agree that there's value in a liberal arts education.  I just object to the very high cost and that many courses have little to do with a chosen major, and it's designed this way just to keep a student there for the required four years (120 credits).  I especially object to the gen ed courses.  Some of the ones I had to take as a college freshman were just a pointless repeat of high school classes. 
I think we agree about 90%. I think the cost is ridiculous. And I agree that for many people the general requirements are a waste of time and money and that in college all the classes should be a lot more rigorous than in high school and they often aren't. Do you know if there are general requirements for an Associate's degree? If not, the best answer would be for employers who are requiring someone with specific training but not generalized thinking skills should consider an Associate's degree to be perfectly adequate. And a Bachelor's would be for jobs needing more generalized critical ability.

I don't think an Associate's Degree requires the gen ed's that a Bachelor's Degree requires, as they can be obtained in two years as opposed to four. 

But a Bachelor's Degree opens more doors (at least it would in a better job market).  It's just a takes a lot of unnecessary time and money to get that key. 

Then, if one wants to get a Graduate Degree, they could get a two year head start and pay a lot less if a Bachelors could be earned in two years as opposed to four.  Getting a Graduate Degree can be financially crippling if there's not a top notch job waiting. 
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« Reply #131 on: May 18, 2016, 07:04:37 AM »

I don't think an advanced degree is appropriate for someone without a general education.
But, I also just looked it up and an Associate's is the reverse - it's the general education without significant specialization. There used to be a lot more 'vocational training' which was field-specific without the general Ed. This was dumped with the middle-classification of the country.
I agree that that should return as a valid option.
Now, we educate everyone as if they are going to be a manager or professional and of course not everyone is. Though as everyone is allowed to vote, there's still some reason to hope that people are getting a good general education. My problem is mainly with the quality. It's really wasted time and money if it's poor quality.
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« Reply #132 on: May 18, 2016, 07:22:19 AM »

I don't think an advanced degree is appropriate for someone without a general education.
But, I also just looked it up and an Associate's is the reverse - it's the general education without significant specialization. There used to be a lot more 'vocational training' which was field-specific without the general Ed. This was dumped with the middle-classification of the country.
I agree that that should return as a valid option.
Now, we educate everyone as if they are going to be a manager or professional and of course not everyone is. Though as everyone is allowed to vote, there's still some reason to hope that people are getting a good general education. My problem is mainly with the quality. It's really wasted time and money if it's poor quality.

I didn't know an Associate's Degree was basically general education.  That's completely useless then. 

Don't we get generally educated in high school?  Granted, high school might not offer things like pyschology or political science, but why force people to take English 101, Algebra, Foreign Language, and History again? 
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« Reply #133 on: May 18, 2016, 07:34:48 AM »

I don't think an advanced degree is appropriate for someone without a general education.
But, I also just looked it up and an Associate's is the reverse - it's the general education without significant specialization. There used to be a lot more 'vocational training' which was field-specific without the general Ed. This was dumped with the middle-classification of the country.
I agree that that should return as a valid option.
Now, we educate everyone as if they are going to be a manager or professional and of course not everyone is. Though as everyone is allowed to vote, there's still some reason to hope that people are getting a good general education. My problem is mainly with the quality. It's really wasted time and money if it's poor quality.

I didn't know an Associate's Degree was basically general education.  That's completely useless then.  

Don't we get generally educated in high school?  Granted, high school might not offer things like pyschology or political science, but why force people to take English 101, Algebra, Foreign Language, and History again?  
Well, with math and language at that level, you're meant to take the next class up, not repeat. People that repeat are screwing themselves over out of laziness. And English, if you've mastered what you should have in high school, you should take the AP test and pass out of 101 and go right to a more advanced course. With history, at least at my college, one was immediately able to choose from a variety of courses that would be more specific and more advanced than at high school. But, I am aware that most (perhaps all) colleges don't push students to move ahead; they allow students to take classes of things they already know and offer gen. Ed courses that are known to be easy to pass and a waste of time and money. College should be more rigorous. High school should be too. People can slide though both learning very little; just going through the motions.
My brother is a math professor and sometimes teaches what's known in the department as 'math for jocks'. It's a really basic, easy course for people to fulfill their math requirement learning rudimentaries. It's a double thing: on the one hand, you want to be sure they have at least some very basic understanding if you're going to give them a degree, but that's just covering for our failed lower schools who let them graduate without a basic education. Also, I really disapprove of colleges letting people in based on athletic skills.
And I don't think people should be allowed to get a BA if they haven't mastered at least basic algebra and geometry. Frankly, I don't think they should get a high school diploma without those.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 07:39:03 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #134 on: May 18, 2016, 07:41:22 AM »

I don't think an advanced degree is appropriate for someone without a general education.
But, I also just looked it up and an Associate's is the reverse - it's the general education without significant specialization. There used to be a lot more 'vocational training' which was field-specific without the general Ed. This was dumped with the middle-classification of the country.
I agree that that should return as a valid option.
Now, we educate everyone as if they are going to be a manager or professional and of course not everyone is. Though as everyone is allowed to vote, there's still some reason to hope that people are getting a good general education. My problem is mainly with the quality. It's really wasted time and money if it's poor quality.

I didn't know an Associate's Degree was basically general education.  That's completely useless then.  

Don't we get generally educated in high school?  Granted, high school might not offer things like pyschology or political science, but why force people to take English 101, Algebra, Foreign Language, and History again?  
Well, with math and language at that level, you're meant to take the next class up, not repeat. People that repeat are screwing themselves over out of laziness. And English, if you've mastered what you should have in high school, you should take the AP test and pass out of 101 and go right to a more advanced course. With history, at least at my college, one was immediately able to choose from a variety of courses that would be more specific and more advanced than at high school. But, I am aware that most (perhaps all) colleges don't push students to move ahead; they allow students to take classes of things they already know and offer gen. Ed courses that are known to be easy to pass and a waste of time and money. College should be more rigorous. High school should be too. People can slide though both learning very little; just going through the motions.
My brother is a math professor and sometimes teaches what's known in the department as 'math for jocks'. It's a really basic, easy course for people to fulfill their math requirement learning rudimentaries. It's a double thing: on the one hand, you want to be sure they have at least some very basic understanding if you're going to give them a degree, but that's just covering for our failed lower schools who let them graduate without a basic education. Also, I really disapprove of colleges letting people in based on athletic skills.
And I don't think people should be allowed to get a BA if they haven't mastered at least basic algebra and geometry. Frankly, I don't think they should get a high school diploma without those.

I'm alright with athletic scholarships as college football and basketball bring in a lot of money.  However, I do think that more of that money should be used for the college itself rather than paying coaches millions of dollars. 

The thing I object to most is big colleges who will turn a blind eye to academics to student athletes.  The NCAA is getting better with this.
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« Reply #135 on: May 18, 2016, 08:07:43 AM »

Well, there's the system we've got and then there's the ideal. Under current circumstances, schools need to sell education short to get money, but I wish those weren't the circumstances.
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« Reply #136 on: May 18, 2016, 08:16:08 AM »

Well, there's the system we've got and then there's the ideal. Under current circumstances, schools need to sell education short to get money, but I wish those weren't the circumstances.

I agree with you on that. 

I also wish colleges treated college students as students instead of customers.

It's also a two way street too with quality of education.  At the university I went to, it seemed like the majority of the students were there to party and mingle with co-eds. 

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« Reply #137 on: May 18, 2016, 08:21:47 AM »

Well, there's the system we've got and then there's the ideal. Under current circumstances, schools need to sell education short to get money, but I wish those weren't the circumstances.

I agree with you on that. 

I also wish colleges treated college students as students instead of customers.

It's also a two way street too with quality of education.  At the university I went to, it seemed like the majority of the students were there to party and mingle with co-eds. 


I love complete 100% no qualifications agreement, and that's where I'm at with this post!
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« Reply #138 on: May 18, 2016, 10:22:30 AM »

Not to mention the text books.  The publishers put out a new edition each year so that the one you spent $100-$200 is worthless by the end of the semester. 
Seriously though. I spent $120 on a used textbook. Thanks, university bookstore.  Sad

I definitely have a LOT to comment on about college, from apartments to dorms to the education itself... but alas, I have school work to prioritize before I can reply, haha.
And by haha, I mean I have so much to do by tomorrow. It's like professors and employers enjoy making students work until they have nervous breakdowns.
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« Reply #139 on: May 18, 2016, 10:50:32 AM »

Not to mention the text books.  The publishers put out a new edition each year so that the one you spent $100-$200 is worthless by the end of the semester. 
Seriously though. I spent $120 on a used textbook. Thanks, university bookstore.  Sad

I definitely have a LOT to comment on about college, from apartments to dorms to the education itself... but alas, I have school work to prioritize before I can reply, haha.
And by haha, I mean I have so much to do by tomorrow. It's like professors and employers enjoy making students work until they have nervous breakdowns.

I'm sure at the end of the semester, the university bookstore, will either offer you about $9 to buy book your book, or will offer to recycle it for free since there'll be a new edition for the Fall semester. 

I think human beings, in general, don't have enough time for leisure.  We're always running somewhere.  Be in school, work, a social engagement, shopping, meeting about a loan, etc etc.  We have so many obligations now, and the years just keep going and going. 
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« Reply #140 on: May 18, 2016, 11:01:20 AM »

Wait - do librarians in the U.S. actually offer 9$ for the book? Let's see... 550 roubles. Not bad. Here, you don't ask for money; anything you bought you give for free. I've got many books that could be useful to university - I'd sure be glad to sell them. At the same time though, they require the book to be within 5 year fresh, i.e. 2011-now.
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« Reply #141 on: May 18, 2016, 11:09:21 AM »

Wait - do librarians in the U.S. actually offer 9$ for the book? Let's see... 550 roubles. Not bad. Here, you don't ask for money; anything you bought you give for free. I've got many books that could be useful to university - I'd sure be glad to sell them. At the same time though, they require the book to be within 5 year fresh, i.e. 2011-now.

RR,

I think you're missing the point a little bit about the $9. 

Basically, in college, if you purchase a book from the school bookstore, you'll spend between $50-$200 per book, depending on whether or not they have a used copy. 

At the end of each semester, the store will do a buyback.  And they'll offer you a mere fraction of what you paid, regardless of condition its in.  But, that's only half the time.  They change editions so often, that your book is usually useless at the end of the semester.  In this case, they'll offer no money, but will recycle it for free.

So, let's say, you take 5 classes, and have to buy 5 text books, and a lab book.  Text books $100 each, and the lab book is $25.  That's $525.  At the end of the semester, the store offers for $6 for one text, $8 for the other.  The other three are being replaced, and you can't sell back the lab book.  So, you've spent $525, but you get back $14!!!  That's $511 down the drain. 
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« Reply #142 on: May 18, 2016, 11:29:59 AM »

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« Reply #143 on: May 18, 2016, 12:12:07 PM »




I think human beings, in general, don't have enough time for leisure.  We're always running somewhere.  Be in school, work, a social engagement, shopping, meeting about a loan, etc etc.  We have so many obligations now, and the years just keep going and going. 
Which brings me to another pet peeve: Americans keep voting to turn increases in productivity into further luxuries for CEOs instead of more time off for themselves.
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« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2016, 12:14:52 PM »

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« Reply #145 on: May 18, 2016, 12:18:40 PM »

Back to topic. $ stands before the digit - who made such asinine rule to place it there? 1$ is logical.
Not at all asinine. It prevents people from altering the ledger by adding digits to the front.
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« Reply #146 on: May 18, 2016, 12:24:34 PM »

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« Reply #147 on: May 18, 2016, 12:29:40 PM »

Speaking as someone who's currently at the tail end of obtaining their Associate's Degree at a community college, 60 credits is the minimum amount to graduate. This is split approximately 40 credits from general education classes and 20 from your chosen major. It's a major pain in the ass. I can see the worth in taking these classes (expanding knowledge base, finding new interests, etc.), but I've heard an entire classroom complain about the irrelevant courses they've been required to take.

So far, I've maintained a 4.0 GPA, but if some stupid Gen Ed class knocks me down, I might strangle a counselor.
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« Reply #148 on: May 18, 2016, 12:31:20 PM »

Also, people who don't ask how you are after you ask them.

I knew someone like that. Every time I talked to her, I would ask how her day was. She would answer my question, and then she would fall silent. It was so bizarre!

I ended up asking her out on the last day of the semester--she said yes--and then I never talked to her again.
lol, why did you ask her out then?

I guess it's just one of those things we'll never know the answer to.
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« Reply #149 on: May 18, 2016, 12:36:53 PM »

Speaking as someone who's currently at the tail end of obtaining their Associate's Degree at a community college, 60 credits is the minimum amount to graduate. This is split approximately 40 credits from general education classes and 20 from your chosen major. It's a major pain in the ass. I can see the worth in taking these classes (expanding knowledge base, finding new interests, etc.), but I've heard an entire classroom complain about the irrelevant courses they've been required to take.

So far, I've maintained a 4.0 GPA, but if some stupid Gen Ed class knocks me down, I might strangle a counselor.
Congrats on the 4.0. I agree that it's odd - I don't understand the sense of - that balance of requirements for an Associate's degree.
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