Bruce Johnston - The Re-evaluation and Appreciation Discussion

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think I "get" what Bruce's role was in the Beach Boys' working frame from 1965-85, songwriting-speaking. When you are in a band with three Wilsons and two other songwriters, you are lucky to get one song per album and that was pretty much what Bruce got (Sunflower being the exception).

When Bruce returned as the producer from 1978-1980, I can also understand why he would devote more time to that role than as a songwriter, although I thought he would've had a stockpile of songs that he was dying to get recorded BY THE BEACH BOYS. Again he was back to no songs on L.A. Light Album and one song on KTSA.

What I still don't understand and it continues to rarely if ever be discussed is why Bruce virtually disappeared as a songwriter over the last almost 30 years. On Still Cruisin', Dennis was deceased and Brian wasn't really a Beach Boy....but no Bruce songs. On Summer In Paradise, no new Dennis songs, no new Brian songs, no new Carl songs, and the ONLY Bruce song is a semi-rewrite of "One Summer Night". And, finally, 20 years after Summer In Paradise, a new Beach Boys' album is being planned/recorded and the only contribution from Bruce is the (rumored) re-recording of "She Believes In Love Again". I realize it was the intention of TWGMTR to be a Brian Wilson-driven vehicle, but I believe that if Bruce had a really strong NEW song to contribute to the album, it would've been considered.

I know it's a matter of opinion, but I think all of Bruce's Beach Boys' songs are excellent; not in the class of Brian and Dennis, but excellent. Where did Bruce's songwriting go? No Beach Boys' songs, no solo albums, no other artists recording BJ songs. I never really viewed Bruce as a singer, although he contributed some nice lines here and there. I never considered him to be a virtuoso musician, but he is/was probably the best musician of the group. And, I never cared for his production. I think the decision to have Bruce produce L.A. Light Album and Keepin' The Summer Alive was a big mistake. Both albums are lifeless.

I always viewed and respected Bruce as a songwriter. Come on, "Disney Girls", "I Write The Songs", "Deidre".... I even like "The Nearest Faraway Place". It's not that Bruce didn't or doesn't have the time. Where'd ya go, Bruce?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think I "get" what Bruce's role was in the Beach Boys' working frame from 1965-85, songwriting-speaking. When you are in a band with three Wilsons and two other songwriters, you are lucky to get one song per album and that was pretty much what Bruce got (Sunflower being the exception).

When Bruce returned as the producer from 1978, I can also understand why he would devote more time to that role than as a songwriter, although I thought he would've had a stockpile full of songs that he was dying to get recorded BY THE BEACH BOYS. Again he was back to one song per album.

What I still don't understand and it continues to rarely if ever be discussed is why Bruce virtually disappeared as a songwriter over the last almost 30 years. On Still Cruisin', Dennis was deceased and Brian wasn't really a Beach Boy....but no Bruce songs. On Summer In Paradise, no new Dennis songs, no new Brian songs, no new Carl songs, and the ONLY song Bruce is a semi-rewrite of "One Summer Night". And, finally, 20 years after Summer In Paradise, a new Beach Boys' album is being planned/recorded and the only contribution from Bruce is the (rumored) re-recording of "She Believes In Love Again". I realize it was the intention of TWGMTR to be a Brian Wilson-driven vehicle, but I believe that if Bruce had a really strong NEW song to contribute to the album, it would've been considered.

I know it's a matter of opinion, but I think all of Bruce's Beach Boys' songs are excellent; not in the class of Brian and Dennis, but excellent. Where did Bruce's songwriting go? No Beach Boys' songs, no solo albums, no other artists recording BJ songs. I never really viewed Bruce as a singer, although he contributed some nice lines here and there. I never considered him to be a virtuoso musician, but he is/was probably the best musician of the group. And, I never cared for his production. I think the decision to have Bruce produce L.A. Light Album and Keepin' The Summer Alive was a big mistake. Both albums are lifeless.

I always viewed and respected Bruce as a songwriter. Come on, "Disney Girls", "I Write The Songs", "Deidre".... I even like "The Nearest Faraway Place". It's not that Bruce didn't or doesn't have the time. Where'd ya go, Bruce?

He went on the never ending M&B "Beach Boys tour!

[Billf]

I think Bruce is a remarkable musician who have been involved in the creation of a lot of classics. He's slowed down a bit, and his decision to tour with Mike as the Beach Boys is not my cup of tea, but, looking at the group members objectively, each of them can be faulted for their activities somewhere down the line. For me, Bruce's contributions to Sunflower put that album over the top as the group's best, schmaltz and all.

[KittyKat]

What I enjoy most about Bruce is his voice as a backing vocalist/role player. His contributions to "California Girls" and "Pet Sounds" as a bv, for instance. Or his singing on the Sagittarius "Present Tense" album. He had a unique, boyish tenor that works well in spots. I'm not sure it was the type of voice that could sustain an album as a lead, but he was okay on the lead vocals on his BB album songs.

[Autotune]

Not essential maybe. But he made the BBs more interesting. An excellent musician, songwriter and singer. A seminal figure in the late 50s teen scene. He did his best to survive in the midst of the insanity that is the BBs... And succeeded. IMO, Mike's touring BBs are better with Bruce on board.

[Lonely Summer]

Sometimes, musicians just dry up. The inspiration just stops coming. That seems to be the case with Bruce. Probably has no desire to write songs, he knows they're not going to get played on mainstream radio; no desire to prove himself as a piano player; doesn't feel the need to do a lot of lead singing. Kind of frustrating, I mean, even Mike comes up with a new song every few years.

[filledeplage]

Sometimes, musicians just dry up. The inspiration just stops coming. That seems to be the case with Bruce. Probably has no desire to write songs, he knows they're not going to get played on mainstream radio; no desire to prove himself as a piano player; doesn't feel the need to do a lot of lead singing. Kind of frustrating, I mean, even Mike comes up with a new song every few years.

Composers, like everyone else, have strong and less strong periods of creativity.  And, speculation about what one is, working on is just that, speculation.  Many people work under a nom de plume or alias when they write; Reggie Dunbar! Mark Twain!

And, I'm thinking like a city girl, now.  What I think he might have brought to the BB table, was "street cred" in the music business, maybe not as a star, but with nuts-and-bolts working industry knowledge and not needing a "geography or history lesson" which you just can't learn in a book.

As far as telling that "Oracle of Del-Fi" off ( and I cracked up with the metaphor, not ever having heard of the book) was good for him to "call him out" from having him defraud a worker, especially a young one. I'd rather someone "in my face," than "behind my back," any day of the week! 

We mostly (or I have ) often learned the "hard way," the school of "hard-knocks,"  but it is the way to best learn what "not to do" or act.

[Moon Dawg]

  Bruce was a steady but not prolific songwriter during what one might call his years as a young adult. "The Nearest Faraway Place", "Deirdre", "Tears in the Morning", "Disney Girls", and "I Write the Songs" all display the craftsmanship of classic pop. It's possible his skills in this sense surpassed those of Mike, Al, Carl, and Dennis, but not Brian. If you are looking for rock & roll, move on, but Bruce is a talent.

 He had it in him to make a better album than Going Public in 1977, although it is not exactly a poor effort either.

[retrokid67]

It gets even more fascinating for those into the bigger history of pop music to trace what happened to these musicians in the decades after they hit the charts as teenagers. Take just one example, and the connections get pretty interesting considering how they crossed paths years later.

Annette Kleinbard, the singer on "To Know Him Is To Love Him" by the Teddy Bears, the voice that inspired Spector to write that song:



Notice another shot of teenage Phil.  

So Annette sang lead on that record, it was a major hit, then she changed her name to Carol Connors. Elvis Presley was so taken by that record that he asked his people to contact her, and they met when he returned from the Army, then had something of a relationship according to some sources.

Then Annette/Carol wrote a song called "Hey Little Cobra", which went to a group called the Rip Chords, but the record was actually Bruce Johnston and Terry Melcher singing leads and harmonies (which Melcher had to lie about to Columbia because he and Bruce apparently were not allowed to be 'artists' on this record they were hired to produce, or something).

So another connection from that core group of Hollywood classmates and friends came about 5 years later as Bruce and Terry's voices piloted a hit record written by one of the late 50's gang onto the charts.

And just over ten years later, Annette/Carol had another co-writing credit on a song everybody with a pulse has heard, one of the most memorable film soundtrack songs in history: "Gonna Fly Now", aka the theme from "Rocky".

Connections like this are all over the place when you get into the history and details, and again it's fascinating stuff for those interested, all coming from a small group of Hollywood teenagers in the late 50's.

  that guy on the right looks like a kid I know

[Justin]

Where'd ya go, Bruce?

Perhaps he's not inspired to write any music?  After all, the band he tours with is primarily a live act.  There are very little opportunities for any new music to make it's way anywhere. By the time TWGMTR came along, I think Bruce knew that it was going to be the Brian/Mike show all the way and there'd be no room for his input.   I'd bet Bruce has written a few things over the years that he's stockpiled by now I just don't think there's a valid outlet for him anymore and he's adjusted to that.

[Smilin Ed H]

He could get a room with Mike and they could write together...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

He could get a room with Mike and they could write together...

This is what I've been screaming forever!!!!

Bruce and the Lovester should be locked in a room and forced to come out with 10 or so tunes and bang out a "Beach Boys album with their road band!

Didn't Bruce say long a go on the TV show "Fridays" that his music is "too smooth" for The Beach Boys (am looking for the clip) ?

Maybe he still thinks so.

[metal flake paint]

He could get a room with Mike and they could write together...

Didn't Bruce say long a go on the TV show "Fridays" that his music is "too smooth" for The Beach Boys (am looking for the clip) ?

Maybe he still thinks so.

I realise that the upload quality sucks, but here's Bruce's comment from American Bandstand:

http://youtu.be/sUFVJH6mZrc?t=17m32s

[Lonely Summer]

But I would think smooth is what Mike wants. He's not exactly Mr. AOR Heavy Guitar.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

But I would think smooth is what Mike wants. He's not exactly Mr. AOR Heavy Guitar.

Something tells me Bruce and Mike's ideas of smooth are still quite different.....

Hence, Bruce's trailer isn't quite as frequently occupied......

[Gabo]

Remember how he went all "i'm still 18" on us in that That's why God made the Radio teaser reel that they released just before the album came out?  There's a video of him siging falsetto in part of it.  He sounds great on stuff like "Spring Vacation" too.  I believe the word somebody used above was "coasting" and that's true.  When you've got dozens of songs to sing that fans love, I guess some people (Bruce) just figure hell why try to top it, why try to do anything new when everybody already loves all this stuff and we can't sing it all in concert anyways?

Well, as a musician with about eight fans, as compared to Bruce's likely thousands of fans, I know that I make music because I love doing it. And I'd assume a guy like him would do it because he loves it too. And I also think that, yeah whoopty-doo, he's got "dozens of songs to sing that fans love," but interesting ZERO of those are his. Just like the guy at the cover band at the bar down the street. He's got dozens of songs to sing that fans love too, but I'd bet that guy would feel more fulfilled if they were singing HIS songs rather than Nickelback's. And please, let's not kid ourselves that most of the hicks that are going to the Bumfuck County Fair have any interest in hearing "Disney Girls," or even have any clue what "Disney Girls" is. In fact if they were asked about the album that it appeared on (Surf's Up) they'd probably guess it was a 1963 album or a hits album. And on top of that, of the songs that they play live at the Mike n' Bruce "Beach Boys" gigs, probably about five of them even have him on them. So for Bruce not to do new music because he is basically a musician covering music he wasn't originally involved with is kinda a shitty excuse.

But yeah, he sounds great on "Spring Vacation" and the falsetto from "Bill & Sue."

He's played a role on some of the biggest selling records of all time. His backing vocals to California Girls and God Only Knows are greater contributions to music than any original song by an unsigned, unknown artist.

If not for a writing a few pop gems in the 60s and 70s, Bruce will be remembered as a principal voice on the some of the most beloved recordings of the twentieth-century. That's quite a feat.

Why do all musicians have to be songwriters?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Great question! With practically every other band, one's contributions as a mere musician or singer have garnered folks high praise and respect, but when it comes to The Beach Boys, it's small potatoes to have sung and played on some of the most earth shatteringly successful music to ever rock the world. Too many fans have reduced it all to "who wrote what" and credit credit credit, credit!!

[Niko]

It's also worth mentioning Bruce supported Brian in the Pet Sounds/SMiLE times.

[Jim V.]

Remember how he went all "i'm still 18" on us in that That's why God made the Radio teaser reel that they released just before the album came out?  There's a video of him siging falsetto in part of it.  He sounds great on stuff like "Spring Vacation" too.  I believe the word somebody used above was "coasting" and that's true.  When you've got dozens of songs to sing that fans love, I guess some people (Bruce) just figure hell why try to top it, why try to do anything new when everybody already loves all this stuff and we can't sing it all in concert anyways?

Well, as a musician with about eight fans, as compared to Bruce's likely thousands of fans, I know that I make music because I love doing it. And I'd assume a guy like him would do it because he loves it too. And I also think that, yeah whoopty-doo, he's got "dozens of songs to sing that fans love," but interesting ZERO of those are his. Just like the guy at the cover band at the bar down the street. He's got dozens of songs to sing that fans love too, but I'd bet that guy would feel more fulfilled if they were singing HIS songs rather than Nickelback's. And please, let's not kid ourselves that most of the hicks that are going to the Bumfuck County Fair have any interest in hearing "Disney Girls," or even have any clue what "Disney Girls" is. In fact if they were asked about the album that it appeared on (Surf's Up) they'd probably guess it was a 1963 album or a hits album. And on top of that, of the songs that they play live at the Mike n' Bruce "Beach Boys" gigs, probably about five of them even have him on them. So for Bruce not to do new music because he is basically a musician covering music he wasn't originally involved with is kinda a shitty excuse.

But yeah, he sounds great on "Spring Vacation" and the falsetto from "Bill & Sue."

He's played a role on some of the biggest selling records of all time. His backing vocals to California Girls and God Only Knows are greater contributions to music than any original song by an unsigned, unknown artist.

If not for a writing a few pop gems in the 60s and 70s, Bruce will be remembered as a principal voice on the some of the most beloved recordings of the twentieth-century. That's quite a feat.

Why do all musicians have to be songwriters?

Errr.....nobody is doubting his great vocal work. It's the fact that he has considered himself a "songwriter" yet the only thing that has been released as written by him in the past 20 years is the song "My Heart" by Doris Day. And that was recorded in the '80s!

The fact is, nobody is talking sh*t about him (well at least not me). It's the fact that he's wasted many, many years just adjusting his mic and clapping. Of course, as he's a man who's now over 70 years old, I don't expect a thing of him. But it's a shame, because he does (did?) have talent. And I think it's always a shame when a talented person doesn't share that talent with the world.

[clack]

  Bruce was a steady but not prolific songwriter during what one might call his years as a young adult. "The Nearest Faraway Place", "Deirdre", "Tears in the Morning", "Disney Girls", and "I Write the Songs" all display the craftsmanship of classic pop. It's possible his skills in this sense surpassed those of Mike, Al, Carl, and Dennis, but not Brian. If you are looking for rock & roll, move on, but Bruce is a talent.

 He had it in him to make a better album than Going Public in 1977, although it is not exactly a poor effort either.

Ah yes, the eternal mystery that is Bruce.

My impression is that Bruce was a student of songcraft. He thought about song construction, he analyzed how other writers went about it, he worked at developing his skills over a period of years -- and finally, he himself, while in his late twenties, became a solid pop craftsman (Dierdre, Tears in the Morning, Disney Girls, I Write the Songs). And then, basically, silence.

I can understand an "inspiration" writer -- Richard Manuel might be an example -- drying up. It's harder to understand why a songcraft writer, who worked hard over some years at developing a skill, would then abandon all that hard work and not exercise that skill.

[Gabo]

Bruce probably didn't write songs simply for the love of creating -- most highly respected musicians are EXPECTED to be songwriters. Perhaps he felt he could achieve greater prestige by composing, but realized the only glory he would ever truly achieve would be as a second string member of The Beach Boys. He wasn't going to be another Brian.

Of course, he didn't have to quit composing, but he recognized he made his contributions and moved on to more enjoyable endeavors. Nothing he would write would get released anyway. His style of writing really isn't in vogue any longer. The only outlet he has is The Beach Boys, and that is too dominated by the Brian cult to accept his contributions, especially in the less desperate later days.

[CenturyDeprived]

Great question! With practically every other band, one's contributions as a mere musician or singer have garnered folks high praise and respect, but when it comes to The Beach Boys, it's small potatoes to have sung and played on some of the most earth shatteringly successful music to ever rock the world. Too many fans have reduced it all to "who wrote what" and credit credit credit, credit!!

It's just frustrating, because we as fans have seen/heard Bruce's potential for great work (and he has done great work), but the quantity level has been unusually and frustratingly small, almost as it was with Carl. With Carl, it seemed he had a lot more on his plate in terms of family stuff which probably played a role in keeping him from writing more. With Bruce, it seemingly remains a mystery... and thus, we uber fans grumble about missed opportunities (despite still being lucky as hell for as much music as we have from Bruce and the Boys).

It may be as simple as him not feeling the need to "prove" himself musically anymore or something like that. I dunno. It is a bummer though, because I really like his material, including his contributions to BB85 + SIP. Seriously.

I know it was Bruce (along with Terry + Mike) aping Brian's sound, but damn if it isn't frustrating that the guy who wrote "Don't Run Away" didn't write more songs like that for the band.

[Gabo]

I don't know if anyone genuinely wants more Bruce songs (moar Tears in the morning yay!) or is just frustrated by the fact that a guy simply doesn't want to write songs. We put artists on such a high pedestal that is frightening why one would choose not to create, especially one with the potential to.

His best songs are good, but I don't turn in my bed at night wanting more.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Great question! With practically every other band, one's contributions as a mere musician or singer have garnered folks high praise and respect, but when it comes to The Beach Boys, it's small potatoes to have sung and played on some of the most earth shatteringly successful music to ever rock the world. Too many fans have reduced it all to "who wrote what" and credit credit credit, credit!!

It's just frustrating, because we as fans have seen/heard Bruce's potential for great work (and he has done great work), but the quantity level has been unusually and frustratingly small, almost as it was with Carl. With Carl, it seemed he had a lot more on his plate in terms of family stuff which probably played a role in keeping him from writing more. With Bruce, it seemingly remains a mystery... and thus, we uber fans grumble about missed opportunities (despite still being lucky as hell for as much music as we have from Bruce and the Boys).

It may be as simple as him not feeling the need to "prove" himself musically anymore or something like that. I dunno. It is a bummer though, because I really like his material, including his contributions to BB85 + SIP. Seriously.

I know it was Bruce (along with Terry + Mike) aping Brian's sound, but damn if it isn't frustrating that the guy who wrote "Don't Run Away" didn't write more songs like that for the band.

Well put!

Or maybe Bruce just ended up taking his utility guy role seriously and realized it was more his thing.... I dunno

[clack]

Carl, Dennis, Brian, Al, and Mike all wrote using outside collaborators. If Bruce was having trouble starting or finishing songs, I don't know why he didn't just hook-up with his own version of Andy Paley or Scott Bennett.  Or why he didn't co-write with Mike, or re-establish his writing partnership with Terry.

The post-Brian Beach Boys of the 80's and 90's did have room on their records for contributions from Bruce. Why he didn't take advantage is again, unknown.

I'd be interested to hear him interviewed on the subject.