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Author Topic: How radio turned their back on them  (Read 8206 times)
Sound of Free
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« on: April 17, 2014, 11:12:32 AM »

It just amazes me sometimes. I've seen the Fred Vail story where the radio programming director told him he couldn't play "Add Some Music" because the Beach Boys weren't cool anymore, but it's still hard to believe.

What brings this up now was having "Marcella" come up on shuffle on my phone. This song didn't even make the top 100, right? How is that possible? It's an amazing pop/rock song. The only reason that program directors didn't add it is that they never listened to it.

There were the top 100 songs of 1972: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1972

How many of these were better than Marcella? A handful, maybe. Program directors would make a huge hit out of "Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast" but wouldn't play "Marcella." Incredible.
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 11:32:36 AM »

I was living in Scottsdale, AZ a few months after the release of CATP and heard Marcella played on the Phoenix progressive rock station KDKB AM-FM, but I never heard it played on any AM Top 40 radio stations. While living in Philly since 1980, I believe I have only heard it played on the old WIOQ FM. The jocks there gave our Boys' quite a bit of airtime during the early and mid-80s.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 11:34:55 AM by drbeachboy » Logged

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Your Kingdom Come,
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 01:00:17 PM »

"Do It Again' is a classic that went to no. 1 in the UK, but only hit no.20 in the US. There's little doubt that AM top 40 turned against the band 67/68 -- but why?

So, the Beach Boys were no longer "cool". But does that explain why such uncool acts as the 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Ohio Express, and Gary Lewis and the Playboys had big hits in 1968? Something else was going on, but I've never heard an explanation as to what went on.
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Cabinessenceking
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 01:08:47 PM »

"Do It Again' is a classic that went to no. 1 in the UK, but only hit no.20 in the US. There's little doubt that AM top 40 turned against the band 67/68 -- but why?

So, the Beach Boys were no longer "cool". But does that explain why such uncool acts as the 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Ohio Express, and Gary Lewis and the Playboys had big hits in 1968? Something else was going on, but I've never heard an explanation as to what went on.

GV was not followed up properly and H&V + Smiley and WH did nothing to save the decline, quite understandably. They are fan favourites, but they could never be mainstream. If they had been full blown productions then perhaps they would've had a better chance, but the new sound was offputting and so the group was quietly forgotten in the dramatic music scene following the summer of 67 (where they failed to deliver anything relevant).

Smile was the only chance they had to latch onto the new trend. Big production a la Wouldn't It Be Nice and California Girls were they way to go.  Smile might not be a smash of an album, but it would certainly be considered cool and then stuff like a well produced WH thing could succeed more, but then we get back into that endless discussion.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 01:20:54 PM by Cabinessenceking » Logged
filledeplage
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 01:10:13 PM »

It just amazes me sometimes. I've seen the Fred Vail story where the radio programming director told him he couldn't play "Add Some Music" because the Beach Boys weren't cool anymore, but it's still hard to believe.

What brings this up now was having "Marcella" come up on shuffle on my phone. This song didn't even make the top 100, right? How is that possible? It's an amazing pop/rock song. The only reason that program directors didn't add it is that they never listened to it.

There were the top 100 songs of 1972: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1972

How many of these were better than Marcella? A handful, maybe. Program directors would make a huge hit out of "Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast" but wouldn't play "Marcella." Incredible.
It did have some limited play in certain markets: LA, NY, Salt Lake City and Boston, where it made the top 30. In St. Louis, and Orlando, it was #20. Then, it went on Sunflower, a natural progression.  It was Brother/Reprise (Warner)

And, I haven't seen what you reference, but AM radio was changing, and stuff was getting played on FM, and it was played, but less than, say, "Rhonda," on AM, in years prior.  I think that FM had a more scholarly/political spin, especially in college towns, and less commercial spin.  1972 was the height of the Vietnam War protest movement.  It was a transition for the industry; what worked for marketing before, didn't work anymore.  

Marcella is a great song; I agree.  It was a very weird time, for radio. If you had an AM radio; you needed to go out and buy an AM/FM radio, and put one in your car, if you wanted to hear better and less commercial stuff.  The Beach Boys were big on college campuses, then, for the "second generation" wave of fans.
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 02:19:57 PM »

"Do It Again' is a classic that went to no. 1 in the UK, but only hit no.20 in the US. There's little doubt that AM top 40 turned against the band 67/68 -- but why?

So, the Beach Boys were no longer "cool". But does that explain why such uncool acts as the 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Ohio Express, and Gary Lewis and the Playboys had big hits in 1968? Something else was going on, but I've never heard an explanation as to what went on.

GV was not followed up properly and H&V + Smiley and WH did nothing to save the decline, quite understandably. They are fan favourites, but they could never be mainstream. If they had been full blown productions then perhaps they would've had a better chance, but the new sound was offputting and so the group was quietly forgotten in the dramatic music scene following the summer of 67 (where they failed to deliver anything relevant).

Smile was the only chance they had to latch onto the new trend. Big production a la Wouldn't It Be Nice and California Girls were they way to go.  Smile might not be a smash of an album, but it would certainly be considered cool and then stuff like a well produced WH thing could succeed more, but then we get back into that endless discussion.
We're talking about two things here -- counterculture music and what was called "teeny-bopper" music. We all know why the Beach Boys didn't cross over to the counterculture crowd.

But what I'm asking is why commercial, top 40 AM radio seemingly rejected the Beach Boys. It had nothing to do with SMiLE, WH, or Smiley Smile, or with lps in general. AM played singles. And it wasn't only the BBs  -- AM radio also turned its back on the Dave Clark 5 and Herman's Hermits, for instance, who continued to make hit UK singles. Some popular groups made the post '67 cut -- Paul Revere and the Raiders, the Rascals, the Grassroots (not even getting into the Beatles or the Stones) -- and some didn't (the Beach Boys).

It wasn't "coolness", because lots of AM top 40 singles were as uncool as you can get (e.g. Bobby Goldsboro). And it wasn't the boy band cuteness factor, either -- some of the biggest hits of the post-67 era were made by faceless studio bands.

The reasons why the Beach Boys were rejected by the hippies 1967-1970 have been gone over upteen times. My question is, why did US commercial radio reject them? This is what I haven't seen explained.

'Do It Again' is as commercial as it gets, and yet it was a relative flop, compared to what it deserved. The quirkiness of 'Smiley Smile' or 'Wild Honey' doesn't explain that failure.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 04:06:07 PM by clack » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 03:48:06 PM »

"Do It Again' is a classic that went to no. 1 in the UK, but only hit no.20 in the US. There's little doubt that AM top 40 turned against the band 67/68 -- but why?

So, the Beach Boys were no longer "cool". But does that explain why such uncool acts as the 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Ohio Express, and Gary Lewis and the Playboys had big hits in 1968? Something else was going on, but I've never heard an explanation as to what went on.
GV was not followed up properly and H&V + Smiley and WH did nothing to save the decline, quite understandably. They are fan favourites, but they could never be mainstream. If they had been full blown productions then perhaps they would've had a better chance, but the new sound was offputting and so the group was quietly forgotten in the dramatic music scene following the summer of 67 (where they failed to deliver anything relevant).

Smile was the only chance they had to latch onto the new trend. Big production a la Wouldn't It Be Nice and California Girls were they way to go.  Smile might not be a smash of an album, but it would certainly be considered cool and then stuff like a well produced WH thing could succeed more, but then we get back into that endless discussion.
We're talking about two things here -- counterculture music and what was called "teeny-bopper" music. We all know why the Beach Boys didn't cross over to the counterculture crowd.

But what I'm asking is why commercial, top 40 AM radio seemingly rejected the Beach Boys. It had nothing to do with SMiLE, WH, or Smiley Smile, or with lps in general. AM played singles. And it wasn't only the BBs  -- AM radio also turned its back on the Dave Clark 5 and Herman's Hermits, for instance, who continued to make hit UK singles. Some popular groups made the post '67 cut -- Paul Revere and the Raiders, the Rascals, the Grassroots (not even getting into the Beatles or the Stones) -- and some didn't (the Beach Boys).

It wasn't "coolness", because lots of AM top 40 singles were as uncool as you can get (e.g. Bobby Goldsboro). And it wasn't the boy band cuteness factor, either -- some of the biggest hits of the post-67 era were made by faceless studio bands.

The reasons why the Beach Boys were rejected by the hippies 1967-1970 have been gone over upteen times. My question is, why did US commercial radio reject them? This is what I haven't seen explained.

'Do It Again' is as commercial as it gets, and yet it was a relative flop, compared to what it deserved. The quirkiness of 'Smiley Smile' or 'Wild Honey' doesn't that failure.
A couple of factors were in play.  Radio can be fickle.  The greatest stations like WABC, in NYC, and had a huge evening -- nighttime signal, swung from radio soaps and comedy from 1953-1960, to music radio from 1960-1982, to talk radio, (News, Opinion, Passion) (I'm not kidding - that was the ad.) Paul Harvey. Limbaugh. Then, sports. Eww.  There was even a "Brian Wilson" working the studio then.  LOL

During that time, I suspect that sponsors could articulate non-controversial artists/musicians whose music they would support.  And pull their support for other artists.  Money talks. Carl Wilson was not convenient, with a CO status. After all, Elvis was in the Army. Why not a Beach Boy? It was really difficult to convince a WWII veteran parent that Vietnam was not the same kind of war.

But, Cousin Brucie, the top DJ, and with that far-flung signal was listened to by everyone who could catch him at night.  I could hear him two states away.  No one did the Top Hit countdown better than Bruce Morrow.  The ratings were tied to something called "cumulative audience" or "cume" and it was determined that people spent only 10 minutes at a time listening to WABC. They jammed commercials between songs, then changed to 5 songs together, then a commercial. Cousin Bruce Morrow quit, because of the short setlist, and went to the competition, WNBC.  And FM radio started to overtake AM radio.  It was freeform radio/progressive rock radio. Then, AOR, album-oriented radio.

WBCN - FM - in Boston, was a pioneer, with less chat and more good stuff.  Lots of Smiley, Pet Sounds and Surf's Up. If I had to guess, SDT helped pry that door wide open. And, it was right up their alley, in a huge college town. Carl Wilson was their hero; no conflict with philosophy clash or sponsors breathing down their necks. Different story with AM.
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 03:52:47 PM »

What do you mean "relative flop"? It made the Top 20, and that is not a flop, relative or otherwise. Now Break Away, that was a flop.
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Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 04:30:08 PM »

What do you mean "relative flop"? It made the Top 20, and that is not a flop, relative or otherwise. Now Break Away, that was a flop.
Relative flop meaning that it went only to #20 on the national Billboard chart, while in the UK it went to #1.  It should have been top 10 in the US at least -- and it did make top 10 in some major markets -- but not enough radio stations got behind it nationally, for some reason.

'Bluebirds Over the Mountain' deservedly failed to break the top 40, 'I Can Hear Music' hit #24 early '69, and then that was it as far as AM radio went, until 'Rock and Roll Music' in '76. Some singles that were major hits elsewhere -- 'Breakaway', 'Cottonfields' -- failed utterly in the US.

Even when FM radio started playing the Beach Boys in the early 70's, AM still resisted such should-have-been-hits as 'Marcella' and 'Sail On Sailor'. FM played those songs, not AM.
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2014, 04:35:38 PM »

Hi all,

If you have an oldies station in town you will hear BB songs on that station.  You tube is also great for BB songs.  I hope that all of you have BB CDs. 

About fans worldwide, fans overseas and fans in America will be different.  I like a lot of different groups and singers. 
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2014, 04:54:57 PM »

   "Heroes and Villains" debuted at 61, then went 33,17,12,12,21,55. A record that started 20 notches higher than "Good Vibrations" then died in 7 weeks. When "H & V" stalled at #12, The Beach Boys were done, despite a few more dents in the Top 25 1967-69.

 Did "Marcella" deserve better? Hell yes, but looking at the list there were some better singles in 1972.
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2014, 06:49:01 PM »

  "Heroes and Villains" debuted at 61, then went 33,17,12,12,21,55. A record that started 20 notches higher than "Good Vibrations" then died in 7 weeks. When "H & V" stalled at #12, The Beach Boys were done, despite a few more dents in the Top 25 1967-69.


In 1967 I was 11 years old and the Beach Boys were my favorite band.  I was into the hits -- I didn't understand Pet Sounds or the slow stuff on Today but I did love Good Vibrations to death.  We would hear the new stuff first on the radio and since there was no FM yet (where I was) that meant hearing the new single on the local top 40 outlet and then maybe buying the album.  There was a huge gap (for those days) between Good Vibrations and Heroes and Villains -- like 9, 10 months?  I remember being at summer camp that year and wondering what the heck was going on.  Anyway, I liked H&V -- but Smiley Smile was so weird and inscrutable I think it just alienated mainstream listeners.

The Beach Boys got airplay (in South FL where I'm from) for Wild Honey, Darlin', Do it Again, I Can Hear Music, a little for Breakaway and then nothing.  I remember seeing 20/20 in the racks (which I checked a couple times a week) but never Sunflower.  There was no media coverage.  It was the whole playing with the Dead, Central Park, and (ironically) Rolling Stone articles that got Surf's Up into the public eye.  At that point Feel Flows got a lot of airplay on the local "underground" FM station, as well as Student Demonstration Time.  Marcella maybe got a few spins, and definitely Sail On Sailor.  Perhaps the odd cut here or there.  After that Rock and Roll Music, It's OK, Good Timin', and other than that, pretty much just oldies radio until Kokomo.  A few DJs like Pete Fornatele carried the flame,, but that was rare.

Anyway, if I have a point... Azn...it's that even when the Beach Boys got airplay there wasn't that much of a demand.  That isn't a criticism -- I love all the quirky stuff late 60s on.  But the public has never embraced very much after Good Vibrations.  They're like me at 11 years old.  So I think radio just has reflected that.
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2014, 07:14:34 PM »

I think the lawsuit with Capitol Records may have had something to do with it. In most books about the Beach Boys, the lawsuit and the formation of Brother Records is portrayed as a positive thing, but it was largely a big strike against them in the industry. Think about it. The Beach Boys sue Capitol Records over audits and breakage costs, while Capitol Records' big darlings, the Beatles, don't do a thing about it? Sure, the Beatles formed their own label-name with Apple, but as far as I've read, didn't ever sue Capitol or EMI. Capitol wound up deleting the entire Beach Boys' back catalog by the late '60s. Given that fact, it's doubtful Capitol gave the Beach Boys' a lot of promotional support prior to that happening.  Warner Brothers then took a chance on them afterwards, but it seems to me they weren't sure what to do with the band, either, in terms of marketing them.
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2014, 07:14:59 PM »

"Do It Again' is a classic that went to no. 1 in the UK, but only hit no.20 in the US. There's little doubt that AM top 40 turned against the band 67/68 -- but why?

So, the Beach Boys were no longer "cool". But does that explain why such uncool acts as the 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Ohio Express, and Gary Lewis and the Playboys had big hits in 1968? Something else was going on, but I've never heard an explanation as to what went on.

GV was not followed up properly and H&V + Smiley and WH did nothing to save the decline, quite understandably. They are fan favourites, but they could never be mainstream. If they had been full blown productions then perhaps they would've had a better chance, but the new sound was offputting and so the group was quietly forgotten in the dramatic music scene following the summer of 67 (where they failed to deliver anything relevant).

Smile was the only chance they had to latch onto the new trend. Big production a la Wouldn't It Be Nice and California Girls were they way to go.  Smile might not be a smash of an album, but it would certainly be considered cool and then stuff like a well produced WH thing could succeed more, but then we get back into that endless discussion.

Tend to agree the problem for the BBs may have been their early image, their relative longevity combined with a perception that they weren't capable of doing"NEW" or "Fresh"; unlike the Beatles or the Who and the Stones, who had successfully transitioned into serious dudes and expanded their audience to match.

Radio and most media have a tendency to jump on new, hip, happening, gimmicky things - while some new stuff may be of high quality, it's rarely the going concern.  As we know, it's about making bread off your audience - if you can keep 'em engaged by high turn-over and get listeners to act upon your advertisers content, everyone's gonna be happy.

Anyway, have things really changed for mainstream radio or other media outlets over the years - One Direction et al are everywhere, yet TWGMTR and IIT only got a few outings.  I know what I'd rather listen to, and I'm hoping we'll see a few more BB (or related) offerings released while the latest and greatest types are wondering where the heck their next mortgage payments are going to come from.  
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 01:06:16 AM by Alan Smith » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2014, 08:12:12 PM »

"Do It Again' is a classic that went to no. 1 in the UK, but only hit no.20 in the US. There's little doubt that AM top 40 turned against the band 67/68 -- but why?

So, the Beach Boys were no longer "cool". But does that explain why such uncool acts as the 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Ohio Express, and Gary Lewis and the Playboys had big hits in 1968? Something else was going on, but I've never heard an explanation as to what went on.
GV was not followed up properly and H&V + Smiley and WH did nothing to save the decline, quite understandably. They are fan favourites, but they could never be mainstream. If they had been full blown productions then perhaps they would've had a better chance, but the new sound was offputting and so the group was quietly forgotten in the dramatic music scene following the summer of 67 (where they failed to deliver anything relevant).

BCN is perhaps the greatest station of all time.

I remember hearing "This Whole World" followed by "My Aim Is True".

Non-BB realted but one time a jock played the Kinks' "Superman" non-stop for an hour.  Takes a call from someone whoe requests "Superman" and says "sorry, we don't have it".

Good Times!

Smile was the only chance they had to latch onto the new trend. Big production a la Wouldn't It Be Nice and California Girls were they way to go.  Smile might not be a smash of an album, but it would certainly be considered cool and then stuff like a well produced WH thing could succeed more, but then we get back into that endless discussion.
We're talking about two things here -- counterculture music and what was called "teeny-bopper" music. We all know why the Beach Boys didn't cross over to the counterculture crowd.

But what I'm asking is why commercial, top 40 AM radio seemingly rejected the Beach Boys. It had nothing to do with SMiLE, WH, or Smiley Smile, or with lps in general. AM played singles. And it wasn't only the BBs  -- AM radio also turned its back on the Dave Clark 5 and Herman's Hermits, for instance, who continued to make hit UK singles. Some popular groups made the post '67 cut -- Paul Revere and the Raiders, the Rascals, the Grassroots (not even getting into the Beatles or the Stones) -- and some didn't (the Beach Boys).

It wasn't "coolness", because lots of AM top 40 singles were as uncool as you can get (e.g. Bobby Goldsboro). And it wasn't the boy band cuteness factor, either -- some of the biggest hits of the post-67 era were made by faceless studio bands.

The reasons why the Beach Boys were rejected by the hippies 1967-1970 have been gone over upteen times. My question is, why did US commercial radio reject them? This is what I haven't seen explained.

'Do It Again' is as commercial as it gets, and yet it was a relative flop, compared to what it deserved. The quirkiness of 'Smiley Smile' or 'Wild Honey' doesn't that failure.
A couple of factors were in play.  Radio can be fickle.  The greatest stations like WABC, in NYC, and had a huge evening -- nighttime signal, swung from radio soaps and comedy from 1953-1960, to music radio from 1960-1982, to talk radio, (News, Opinion, Passion) (I'm not kidding - that was the ad.) Paul Harvey. Limbaugh. Then, sports. Eww.  There was even a "Brian Wilson" working the studio then.  LOL

During that time, I suspect that sponsors could articulate non-controversial artists/musicians whose music they would support.  And pull their support for other artists.  Money talks. Carl Wilson was not convenient, with a CO status. After all, Elvis was in the Army. Why not a Beach Boy? It was really difficult to convince a WWII veteran parent that Vietnam was not the same kind of war.

But, Cousin Brucie, the top DJ, and with that far-flung signal was listened to by everyone who could catch him at night.  I could hear him two states away.  No one did the Top Hit countdown better than Bruce Morrow.  The ratings were tied to something called "cumulative audience" or "cume" and it was determined that people spent only 10 minutes at a time listening to WABC. They jammed commercials between songs, then changed to 5 songs together, then a commercial. Cousin Bruce Morrow quit, because of the short setlist, and went to the competition, WNBC.  And FM radio started to overtake AM radio.  It was freeform radio/progressive rock radio. Then, AOR, album-oriented radio.

WBCN - FM - in Boston, was a pioneer, with less chat and more good stuff.  Lots of Smiley, Pet Sounds and Surf's Up. If I had to guess, SDT helped pry that door wide open. And, it was right up their alley, in a huge college town. Carl Wilson was their hero; no conflict with philosophy clash or sponsors breathing down their necks. Different story with AM.

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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2014, 09:11:22 PM »

This is a terrific topic but unfortunately it is also so complex that there cannot be a convenient answer. I can't disagree with most of the factors already listed, with only a few exceptions.

Just consider that the transition from AM to FM - which wasn't as much of a lightning strike of an event as some might believe but was more a gradual shift - changed the entire industry. Where did the audience turn to hear their top-40? It eventually went totally over to the FM dial. Until about 1970 or so, AM was the place for top-40 format radio. Singles were mixed for AM, right? Then when it shifted to FM, the game changed.

And what happened was certain acts, genres, sounds, and textures became pegged to the "AM" category, and others managed to transition over to FM.

Consider how seldom you'll hear "She Loves You" or any early Beatles on an FM classic rock station, yet for decades "A Day In The Life" always placed in the top-5 during their holiday countdown promotions, and any classic rock format FM station worth it's salt will have "Come Together" in regular rotation.

Why is that? Consider the sound of the records and which ones transitioned and which ones did not, when the great AM to FM migration was happening.

Some songs just got placed into the "oldies" format and others got picked up by FM.

AM was pot, FM was cocaine in the 70's. Sorry, I had to say it.  Grin

And keep in mind there were "oldies" stations already playing records from 1967 in 1970 for example. It was weird. It's often forgotten, or dusted into the trashbin of history, but all of those incredible 60's hit singles like BB's and Mamas and Papas and Buckinghams and Tommy James were being spun in the early 70's as "oldies", though they weren't expressly labeled that.

This happened just as top-40 went over to FM, the FM stations weren't playing AM mono mixes even if they were only 5 years old, and the whole business created AM-based "oldies" which became home for the Beach Boys classics and that's where they've been at home for decades.

Yet, "Come Together" is FM rock.

Honestly, there is soooooo much more to it, and I haven't even touched on the issues of regions and corporations/networks and how it all got homogenized yet segregated on the FM dial.

Conclusions? AM radio was all but dead as a commercial entity until the early 90's with political talk. The "oldies" went to FM, but now freakin' John Mellencamp is an oldie, alongside the Footloose soundtrack. Anything from 60's AM is beyond oldies, it's on the malt shop cruises. Unless it's "House Of The Rising Sun" or "Satisfaction" which miraculously are still played on classic rock FM.

I don't get it. But that's how it's been since 1970 or so.

The Beach Boys music just didn't transition when the radio business transitioned to FM as the dominant music delivery format.

No one "turned their back" in an orchestrated way, or as a blacklist kind of scene, but the Beach Boys just became part of the AM demographic that became "oldies", and their best-remembered records were the AM based hits.

I gotta get back to watching WKRP reruns, then my DVD of the film "FM"...sorry for rambling and rushing out.  Cheesy

***And for the ultimate head-scratcher of an irony going back to this issue...consider The Hollies. Great band, right? Amazing songs that in some cases *never get played* on either format.

Yet "Long Cool Woman In A Black Dress" is an absolute FM classic rock staple (to the point of annoyance every time that guitar kicks in), while "Bus Stop" is always on the AM-sourced oldies playlists. And "The Air That I Breathe" is pretty much lost in the swamp alongside the BB's Sunflower and Surf's Up era records, some oldies play it, some classic rock plays it, but it's all but buried either way in favor of...well...what classic rock likes to play.

And the incredible, amazing, stunning "On A Carousel" doesn't get played at all, anywhere.

Go figure.  Undecided
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 09:20:38 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2014, 10:40:37 PM »

The Beach Boys fall from grace and subsequent reduction in airplay, record sales, and concert attendance in the US is hard to explain because it really makes no sense when considering some of the great music the band released in the later sixties and early seventies.  You almost have to have been there and experienced it to understand it.

Basically, the Beach Boys had baggage.  Earlier in their career they had often extolled the virtues of materialistic endeavors.  As a result of the war in Vietnam there was a counter culture backlash against things considered materialistic and "establishment" and the perception increasingly was that the guys fit the old and now uncool mold more than the new anti-establishment mold.  The early sixties fun loving frame of mind which the public associated with the Beach Boys fell out of style, replaced by a more serious "heavy" mindset.  (Yes, bubble gum music was quite popular in the late sixties, but that was mainly for kids too young appreciate "relevant" music.)

If Pet Sounds would have been the Beach Boys' first release and they went forward releasing the exact same new stuff in the same order into the early seventies, including Do It Again and Bluebirds Over the Mountain, there would have been no circa 1967 - 1973 backlash.

Here's an example from my personal experience of how the BBs went from cool to uncool in a rather short period of time.  In high school in the early spring of 1966 (before the release of Pet Sounds) I did a project for my history class where I brought in the Surfin' USA album and sang different humorous lyrics (about Walter Lippmann, an American writer and political commentator) to the tune of Noble Surfer.  The class thoroughly enjoyed it, and I didn't feel the least bit of embarrassment about bringing a Beach Boys album to school.  Three years later, in the early spring of 1969, I was in college and the prof requested that students who were interested in doing so bring in a record album that had been of real significance in their lives and describe what type of impact the music had had on them.  I immediately decided I'd bring in Pet Sounds.  On the morning of the next class session I grabbed the album, but just before I left for class I had second thoughts, as the majority of college students at that time considered the Beach Boys to be rather uncool relics from the past, so I stuck the album in a large brown paper bag so no one would see me carrying it around.  When I arrived in class the prof asked for volunteers to share the record albums they had brought in.  While I had no problem extolling the virtues of the Beach Boys' music to my friends, that day in class I found myself unwilling to take the risk of being considered uncool by the other students, and, I'm now embarrassed to say, the album remained in the brown bag while other students shared albums by Dylan, the Beatles, Creem, etc.  (Pet Sounds at that time, just under three years after it's release, did not enjoy the legendary status it was later to gain.)

I didn't begin to sense a changing tide in the band's overall image in America until Rolling Stone's October 1971 review of Surf's Up, which ended with, "You can come home guys, all is forgiven."  But it took a few more years and the end of US involvement in Vietnam, along with some incredibly great early seventies concerts, continued discovery of and appreciation for the band's 66-73 releases, and renewed appreciation of their earlier music, for the Beach Boys to finally regain popular acceptance and lose the "uncool" factor in America.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 10:51:00 PM by Custom Machine » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2014, 10:43:00 PM »

(Opps, hit Quote instead of Modify when editing my post above!)
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2014, 10:45:35 PM »

(Woah! ... Did it again! ... While thinking 'bout all the places we surfed and danced and ... Opps, sorry, lost my head!)
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2014, 01:08:51 AM »

In high school in the early spring of 1966 (before the release of Pet Sounds) I did a project for my history class where I brought in the Surfin' USA album and sang different humorous lyrics (about Walter Lippmann, an American writer and political commentator) to the tune of Noble Surfer.  

Any chance you can recall those lyrics and share them with us?
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2014, 06:07:37 AM »

The Beach Boys fall from grace and subsequent reduction in airplay, record sales, and concert attendance in the US is hard to explain because it really makes no sense when considering some of the great music the band released in the later sixties and early seventies.  You almost have to have been there and experienced it to understand it.

Basically, the Beach Boys had baggage.  Earlier in their career they had often extolled the virtues of materialistic endeavors.  As a result of the war in Vietnam there was a counter culture backlash against things considered materialistic and "establishment" and the perception increasingly was that the guys fit the old and now uncool mold more than the new anti-establishment mold.  The early sixties fun loving frame of mind which the public associated with the Beach Boys fell out of style, replaced by a more serious "heavy" mindset.  (Yes, bubble gum music was quite popular in the late sixties, but that was mainly for kids too young appreciate "relevant" music.)

If Pet Sounds would have been the Beach Boys' first release and they went forward releasing the exact same new stuff in the same order into the early seventies, including Do It Again and Bluebirds Over the Mountain, there would have been no circa 1967 - 1973 backlash.

Here's an example from my personal experience of how the BBs went from cool to uncool in a rather short period of time.  In high school in the early spring of 1966 (before the release of Pet Sounds) I did a project for my history class where I brought in the Surfin' USA album and sang different humorous lyrics (about Walter Lippmann, an American writer and political commentator) to the tune of Noble Surfer.  The class thoroughly enjoyed it, and I didn't feel the least bit of embarrassment about bringing a Beach Boys album to school.  Three years later, in the early spring of 1969, I was in college and the prof requested that students who were interested in doing so bring in a record album that had been of real significance in their lives and describe what type of impact the music had had on them.  I immediately decided I'd bring in Pet Sounds.  On the morning of the next class session I grabbed the album, but just before I left for class I had second thoughts, as the majority of college students at that time considered the Beach Boys to be rather uncool relics from the past, so I stuck the album in a large brown paper bag so no one would see me carrying it around.  When I arrived in class the prof asked for volunteers to share the record albums they had brought in.  While I had no problem extolling the virtues of the Beach Boys' music to my friends, that day in class I found myself unwilling to take the risk of being considered uncool by the other students, and, I'm now embarrassed to say, the album remained in the brown bag while other students shared albums by Dylan, the Beatles, Creem, etc.  (Pet Sounds at that time, just under three years after it's release, did not enjoy the legendary status it was later to gain.)

I didn't begin to sense a changing tide in the band's overall image in America until Rolling Stone's October 1971 review of Surf's Up, which ended with, "You can come home guys, all is forgiven."  But it took a few more years and the end of US involvement in Vietnam, along with some incredibly great early seventies concerts, continued discovery of and appreciation for the band's 66-73 releases, and renewed appreciation of their earlier music, for the Beach Boys to finally regain popular acceptance and lose the "uncool" factor in America.

Great post.
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2014, 06:26:36 AM »

I'm sure not going to Monterrey didn't help.  Cry
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2014, 07:22:18 AM »

Custom Machine just did a terrific post capturing the social-cultural-political possible reasons behind this. Again, the issue has so many facets it's hard to pin down, and reading this personal experience on the cultural side is crucial.

Factor that in with the radio business elements, the AM-FM transition, the mono-to-stereo shift, the singles-to-albums shift in rock music, the nature of who at the labels and stations was signing the checks in 1965 versus 1973...it starts adding up.

I don't think radio en masse ever "turned it's back" on the Boys, again there were AM stations in the early 70's spinning the 60's classics regularly. But having such success in that market in the 60's may have also tagged them into that demographic for good no matter how they tried to change their sound.

Another element (controversial perhaps)...Brian Wilson was not a visible or dominant audible presence on those 70's albums when the FM format was determining what to play. The element that a lot of the FM crowd was drawn to in 1966-67 wasn't there.

And again, consider that "She Loves You" is never on a classic rock station's regular rotation, yet "Come Together" and other post-67 Beatles are staples of the format. Same band...why the difference from '64 to '69? Key point to consider. And Custom Machine touched on it.
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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2014, 08:45:48 AM »

Coolness or hipness figures into why late 60's progressive FM radio didn't play the Beach Boys, but AM top 40 played plenty of un-hip, un-cool acts. Has to be some other factors involved.

See, I thought that maybe there was some radio programmer's newsletter, or Billboard article, or maybe just programmer-to-programmer word of mouth. "The Beach Boys are passe, while the Grassroots, Tommy James, and the 5th Dimension are still happening", something like that.
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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2014, 09:01:46 AM »

Coolness or hipness figures into why late 60's progressive FM radio didn't play the Beach Boys, but AM top 40 played plenty of un-hip, un-cool acts. Has to be some other factors involved.

That's the thing. It's misguided that program directors thought the Boys were uncool, but somehow Wayne Newton and the Osmonds WERE cool?
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