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Author Topic: Once again the myth is proclaimed  (Read 8348 times)
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« on: April 15, 2014, 12:30:19 PM »

I only saw this on another forum. It's a Glenn Campbell box set that also includes some of the best of his session work. Our boys are featured with "Good vibrations" (correct) but also "I get around" (incorrect iirc).

http://surfdog.com/store/product/glen-campbell-legacy-set


It's one thing what people think and discuss in message boards/in private but I really can't stand it when such misinformation is to be found on official music releases. It's not like you couldn't get the right information very easily nowadays.
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 01:27:42 PM »

I only saw this on another forum. It's a Glenn Campbell box set that also includes some of the best of his session work. Our boys are featured with "Good vibrations" (correct) but also "I get around" (incorrect iirc).

http://surfdog.com/store/product/glen-campbell-legacy-set


It's one thing what people think and discuss in message boards/in private but I really can't stand it when such misinformation is to be found on official music releases. It's not like you couldn't get the right information very easily nowadays.
I think it's been established by C-Man that Glen is playing one of the basses on I Get Around, lead guitar is Carl Wilson,  overdubbed bass Ray Pohlman, Brian plays keyboards, Dennis plays the drums and Hal Blaine plays percussion, saxes by Jay Migliori and Steve Douglas. Regarding Good Vibrations...I think it's been solidly established that Glen is not on the record. So despite all the great BB's tracks that Glen played guitar on, the compilers of his box set have chosen one he played bass on, and another that he was not on at all.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 01:42:41 PM by Jon Stebbins » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 01:44:55 PM »

Glen has always said he played on "I Get Around".  Who played Harpsichord? Brian?

And Glen has also said he played on about 5 sessions of Good Vibrations, which has been proven incorrect, at least as far as the session sheets go. I don't know why Glen would say that if he didn't play on it. I mean, he's filmed by a pool specifically for a Beach Boys special documentary concerning the subject of Good Vibrations. He uses the song as an example of how Brian makes a record. He's played it live before. Dunno if he confused it with Heroes & Villains or other Pet Sounds/Smile material. But why would he lie?
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2014, 02:33:37 PM »

Glen has always said he played on "I Get Around".  Who played Harpsichord? Brian?

And Glen has also said he played on about 5 sessions of Good Vibrations, which has been proven incorrect, at least as far as the session sheets go. I don't know why Glen would say that if he didn't play on it. I mean, he's filmed by a pool specifically for a Beach Boys special documentary concerning the subject of Good Vibrations. He uses the song as an example of how Brian makes a record. He's played it live before. Dunno if he confused it with Heroes & Villains or other Pet Sounds/Smile material. But why would he lie?
A lot of musicians played on Good Vibrations sessions that are not on the final edit of the record. I think that's the case with Glen, and probably Carol Kaye too. In most cases the musicians aren't lying, they just can't remember, and were not involved in the editing process, or were not there when other takes were cut. I'll give you a great example. Hal Blaine, for decades has recounted how Dennis hired him to play on POB, you've seen the quote. I'll paraphrase...Hal says people ask him if Dennis was jealous that he played drums on so many BB's sessions, Hal says no, in fact Dennis hired me to play the drums on his solo LP. From there journalists assumed for years and years that Hal's drumming is all over the Pacific Ocean Blue album. But when we went back and examined the session tapes, and when C-man broke it down like he does so well, the fact is that Hal is only on one (maybe two) POB tracks. I think he's on a couple Bambu things too, so the sessions probably overlapped. But my point is Hal wasn't lying, Dennis did hire him, he did some DW solo sessions, he had no idea which ones...but it's the lazy f'n journalists that take that and run with it...saying Hal is the primary drummer on POB...not the case, there's more of Bobby F, Dennis and Ricky Fataar on there than Hal. I think Glen has been told he's on Good Vibrations for decades. And who would be nutty enough to really check?...well WE are.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 02:44:38 PM by Jon Stebbins » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2014, 02:54:25 PM »

Top of my head stuff, but I don't recall seeing his name on any AFM for "GV". As for CK, she most certainly played on some sessions but Craig has established she's not on the final edit.
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2014, 05:32:40 PM »

A lot of musicians played on Good Vibrations sessions that are not on the final edit of the record. I think that's the case with Glen, and probably Carol Kaye too. In most cases the musicians aren't lying, they just can't remember, and were not involved in the editing process, or were not there when other takes were cut.

I'll betcha that's the case with Glen here. There's just so many tracking sessions and variations. Maybe he's on one or more of the outtakes. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 05:40:00 PM »

Top of my head stuff, but I don't recall seeing his name on any AFM for "GV". As for CK, she most certainly played on some sessions but Craig has established she's not on the final edit.

I guess I musta missed something all these years on the BB boards, but I always thought for sure Carol played the bass part, at least on the first two verses of Good Vibrations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UqNvMOdhGU
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 05:43:14 PM »

so technically he played on both songs, and they are two of the BBs most popular (and highest-charting) tunes

and that's probably the reason they were chosen instead of something Glen was way more prominent on... like Dance, Dance, Dance
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 06:05:58 PM »

Top of my head stuff, but I don't recall seeing his name on any AFM for "GV". As for CK, she most certainly played on some sessions but Craig has established she's not on the final edit.

I guess I musta missed something all these years on the BB boards, but I always thought for sure Carol played the bass part, at least on the first two verses of Good Vibrations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UqNvMOdhGU
I think when he did the session notes for the Smile box C-man got to hear all of the session material that went into the edit that made up the hit single version of GVs and Carol is only on the fade if that, and maybe not that.
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 07:16:15 PM »

Huh. I always thought she played that bass part starting at the beginning.

Not to question C-man's notes.......but Carol insists on playing that part:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjLl-afq6IE
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2014, 08:02:05 PM »

Huh. I always thought she played that bass part starting at the beginning.

Not to question C-man's notes.......but Carol insists on playing that part:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjLl-afq6IE

And , of course, she NEVER claims to be on anything she didn't play....
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2014, 09:33:51 PM »

For the record: Glen didn't play on ANY "Good Vibrations" sessions...they're all documented on tape and with AFM contracts. I've heard all the tapes (way more than what's been bootlegged), and his voice is not on any of them, nor is he mentioned by name, nor is his name on any of the AFM contracts. There are no "Good Vibrations" tracking sessions for which tape exists but AFMs don't, and vice versa (except for a lack of paperwork on the 3/3/66 Fender bass/Jew's harp overdub session, but there is session tape for that...Carl on bass, some guy named Tony on Jew's harp).

As for Carol - she played 12-string electric guitar on the 4/9/66 Gold Star session, Dano bass on the 5/24 Sunset session, and Fender bass on the 6/18 Western session. That's it - three sessions, NONE of which made it to vinyl (until 2011, that is). I used to think the tail end of the 5/24 session with her on it was possibly used on the master, but I figured out in time for the box set notes that it wasn't. Trust me, I've listened and investigated this inside and out for many, many, many hours.

End of story.
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2014, 01:40:21 AM »

Moral of this thread, file for future reference: if Craig says something is so, it is SO.
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2014, 04:26:35 AM »

I should clarfiy my statement by saying: it's possible there were five "Good Vibrations" sessions that Glen played on, for which there is absolutely no evidence...no AFM contracts, no Capitol Records Popular Session Worksheets, and no session tapes in the vaults. Possible, but EXTREMELY unlikely, given that each and every other instrumental session for that song IS fully accounted for (or in the case of that one overdub I mentioned, accounted for with tape only). Every piece of the finished record is accounted for by dated tapes still in the vault, which correspond to AFM contracts and Capitol worksheets either still on file or known to have been on file thirty years ago and photocopied at the time. Then there are the unused sessions, all of which also correspond to known paperwork. There are no GV tapes in the vault for which there is no paperwork (except in the case of that one overdub) and no paperwork for which there are no tapes in the vault. The odds that five GV instrumental sessions were held (all of which happened to include Glen Campbell) of which all trace and reference has vanished is so unlikely as to be dismissable.

Not to knock Glen in any way, shape, or form...personally I love him! I doubt he knowingly put forth misinformation in this case; rather, my guess would be that when doing the aforementioned interview in 1980, he was "lead into" the statement by the interviewer ("Glen, talk about your involvement in the 'Good Vibrations' sessions"). And he no doubt remembered playing on several 1966 BBs/BW sessions (coincidentally, five), so with the passage of time, it's understandable that he might associate his five 1966 BBs sessions with their biggest hit from that year, especially if prompted to do so.
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2014, 05:46:19 AM »

Indeed. There's a world of difference between genuinely misremembering and flat out lying.
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2014, 07:02:27 AM »

My fault. Sorry.
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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2014, 08:36:11 AM »

For the record: Glen didn't play on ANY "Good Vibrations" sessions...they're all documented on tape and with AFM contracts. I've heard all the tapes (way more than what's been bootlegged), and his voice is not on any of them, nor is he mentioned by name, nor is his name on any of the AFM contracts. There are no "Good Vibrations" tracking sessions for which tape exists but AFMs don't, and vice versa (except for a lack of paperwork on the 3/3/66 Fender bass/Jew's harp overdub session, but there is session tape for that...Carl on bass, some guy named Tony on Jew's harp).

As for Carol - she played 12-string electric guitar on the 4/9/66 Gold Star session, Dano bass on the 5/24 Sunset session, and Fender bass on the 6/18 Western session. That's it - three sessions, NONE of which made it to vinyl (until 2011, that is). I used to think the tail end of the 5/24 session with her on it was possibly used on the master, but I figured out in time for the box set notes that it wasn't. Trust me, I've listened and investigated this inside and out for many, many, many hours.

End of story.
To me this type of post/thread is so much more important and interesting than the constant barrage of poll threads, survivor threads, best of this threads, worst of that threads...because it actually corrects the written history of the Beach Boys. I've heard so many people say, why do i need another article or another book because I know everything, everything has been written etc... The problem is that so much was written sloppily or wrongly and there's thousands of people who think they are Brian Wilson experts walking around out there feeling solid in their 1982 knowledge that the Wrecking Crew played the instruments on the majority of Beach Boys hits (see Harold Bronson)...or that Glen Campbell and Carol Kaye are two of the musicians on Good Vibrations, or that Hal Blaine played the drums on I Get Around...all of these things are factually wrong and the list is so much longer and deeper of the wrongs that are still assumed because of bad assumptions by widely read journalists and authors. This thread, seen by a few dozen people, is correct, it finds it's way to what really happened and is historically correct. It's not about opinion, or taste, or trend or gee Brian is so cool and Dennis is so hot...it gives you information that affects the story, tells you what is real, makes you smarter in your Beach Boys expertise. The compilers of the Glen Campbell box took the easy route, the short cut, the lazy approach...they bought the myth, and they are fine with that because they are in the vast uneducated majority when it comes to this subject matter. To represent Glen's contributions to the Beach Boys they chose one song he played bass on (you know the compilers assumed the lead guitar was Glen and not Carl), and they chose a second song that Glen is not on at all. Hundreds of people will buy the box, and use it as "evidence" to show their friends and convince themselves that Glen's guitar is right there on those number one Beach Boys songs. Same thing for the guy who wrote the Wrecking Crew book, filled with wrong stuff about the Beach Boys, same with Denny Tedesco and his Wrecking Crew movie and it's wrong stuff about the Beach Boys, same for nearly every article etc... written about Hal Blaine with all of it's wrong stuff about the Beach Boys, same with so many early beach Boys books and articles expanding and rubber stamping the myth that they hardly played on their own stuff, or that Carol is on things she's not, or that Glen played the lead guitar when he didn't. I applaud Craig for the time, effort, and guts it takes to adjust and correct history. It's not a very glamorous or well paying job, and too many people, even fans on this board ignore it, or don't really take it to heart. Thanks to Rocker for starting the thread, thanks to C-man for nailing it down.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 08:42:05 AM by Jon Stebbins » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2014, 09:12:05 AM »

After seeing all of this stuff play out over the years, I can't help but look at the "big picture" and think of one major issue that would seem to dominate most of these cases with these credits.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you're writing bios or liner notes for a musician like Glen, or Hal, or anyone of that stature, their resumes and credits are already packed with accomplishments, performances, and credits that are not in dispute. He's Glen Freakin' Campbell, right? Find a dozen session credits where there is no doubt it's him playing, and they're among the all-time 60's classics...oh, let's say, playing guitar for Sinatra which was one of the most coveted credits in the biz at one time. Or find a Beach Boys tune where it's definitely him playing. Et cetera.

The question is why spotlight a credit that is in question, as shown above, when there are any number of career-spotlight type sessions that Glen played in his role as a session musician which wouldn't cast even the slightest doubt on accuracy or whatever? Especially in cases where research can cast even a slight doubt on a claim, I'd think choosing any number of established credits would be a better path to take when writing these things.

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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2014, 09:32:06 AM »

[To me this type of post/thread is so much more important and interesting than the constant barrage of poll threads, survivor threads, best of this threads, worst of that threads...because it actually corrects the written history of the Beach Boys.

And hopefully, if/when C-Man's sessions book (or whatever format) comes out, these threads will be dominated by the subject of who played what/where.

Reading the Good Vibrations discussions above and the sessions for it at various studios around L.A., and the accountability of pretty much all of the instrumental tracks on tape, made me think. Another "if only" moment came to me. If only they recorded the vocals at a studio other than Columbia. More than likely we'd still have the vocal sessions on tape in the Beach Boys' vault (unless they were stolen or misplaced and still out there somewhere). Other than the missing multi-tracks from a couple albums, the missing Good Vibrations vocal sessions are still....... well, at the very least, the inability to create a true stereo version of Good Vibrations remains. I'd just really like to hear them!
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I, I love the colorful clothes she wears, and she's already working on my brain. I only looked in her eyes, but I picked up something I just can't explain. I, I bet I know what she’s like, and I can feel how right she’d be for me. It’s weird how she comes in so strong, and I wonder what she’s picking up from me. I hope it’s good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!!
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2014, 01:55:08 AM »

Kent Hartman's book hasn't done the facts any favours, even getting Brian's age and height incorrect when he heard "Be My Baby" Shocked Does anyone know if Brian ever owned an aquamarine Pontiac Grand Prix, as Kent claims?
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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2014, 03:37:29 AM »

My fault. Sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about, dude...like Jon said, thanks for starting the discussion! Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2014, 07:35:52 AM »

Kent Hartman's book hasn't done the facts any favours, even getting Brian's age and height incorrect when he heard "Be My Baby" Shocked Does anyone know if Brian ever owned an aquamarine Pontiac Grand Prix, as Kent claims?
Brian owned a 1963 Pontiac Grand Prix...the color is metallic turquoise which has an aquamarine-ish look. Carl owned the same car, same color, but a 1964 model (pictured on the cover of Shut Down Vol 2). BTW Brian's '63 is on the cover of the Hawthorne CA CD. Jon Stebbins also had a metallic Turquoise 1963 Grand Prix, but sold it when I started raising my kids back in the late '90's. Nice cars they are.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 07:36:52 AM by Jon Stebbins » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2014, 07:39:01 AM »

Not good news about Glen Campbell…

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-615/6056406/glen-campbell-moved-into-a-care-facility
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2014, 07:50:39 AM »


He'll get good care tho, which is good news, right?
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« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2014, 07:54:02 AM »

Wasn't this inevitable?

What bgas said.



Hope he's in good hands there.
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