New Monkees Fan

[Dudd]

Head is the best. Practically a cinematic suicide... pretty shocking in places, yet still somehow great fun. The "Daddy's Song" sequence knocks me out every time.

[Lonely Summer]

Head is the best. Practically a cinematic suicide... pretty shocking in places, yet still somehow great fun. The "Daddy's Song" sequence knocks me out every time.

Head is classic. I rank it right up there with A Hard Days Night in rock cinema, although Head is a much darker piece than Hard Days Night. Maybe I should compare it with Don't Look Back.

[leggo of my ego]

I am an Old Monkees fan. 

But I came to appreciate the band the long way around. The first-run Monkees TV show was my first exposure to the band and I was elementary school age and I bought the singles and Lps but it wasn't very long before the harder rock bands began to fascinate me...The Monkees & The Archies that was kid-stuff. I totally dismissed any sort of music like that as I grew into my teen years -- the musical horizons were opening up with so many great bands in the early 70's there was no reason to look back. When the 60's became "oldies" you started to hear things on the radio you haven't heard in years and I started to recognize that the Monkees chart-toppers were really quite well-crafted songs... I have to admit I was put-off by the knowledge that Boyce & Hart had been the crafters of many of these songs. But eventually I did start to collect the CDs and discovered the world I had overlooked as a kid in their amazing and plenteous plethora of album-cuts and obscure tracks, many penned by Nesmith. I also found a new appreciation for Dolenz vocal talents.
I would highly recommend their music today.

[SMiLE-addict]

One track that stands out particularly to me is "Papa Gene's Blues."

Yeah, that's one of their best. It's the song my sister, who got me into re-discovering the Monkees many years ago, really liked, and so did I. It's just such a happy song, too! "Take a Giant Step" is almost as good.

One song I thought was too, well, gooey, when I was a kid but which I now like is, "I Wanna Be Free."

[Lonely Summer]

"Papa Gene's Blues" sounds to me like a Nez tip of the hat to Rick Nelson's "Hello Mary Lou" - also featuring "Magic Fingers" James Burton on guitar.

[RangeRoverA1]

Gotta say, I like the Monkees by singles & that's the only time in my listening experience because usually I'm into obscure non-hit album tracks. My favorite song is "Words", it's very interestingly structured, love the contrast of verses & chorus, the bass & of course Mickey's performance. From then on, I regarded him as the best singer of the group. But let's not forget "the true Monkee" Davy Jones who was fortunate to get lead on one of the most beautiful songs that exist, "Daydream Believer". It does indeed cheer me up, as the lyrics suggest, Davy absolutely nailed the happy-go-lucky feel of the song, he was the right choice for it. That said, I find Peter Tork the most likable of the 4. Everyone praises Mike Nesmith for his composing skills, Davy is the "cutest" (not for me), Mickey gets attention for his vocals, but no one seems to say anything about Peter. Strange, considering he could play instruments (piano & bass?) well before joining the band, while the rest caught up later. He also doesn't seem arrogant like Mike, in interviews he comes off very humble.

Re "Papa Gene's Blues", I 1st discovered it via the Iron Leg Blog, in 2007 archive section. Dug it instantly, played a few times in a row &... quickly got tired of it (likely I found better examples of country music).

[Gregg]

Here's a story that will tie this thread back to Brian Wilson and the BBs......

Reading all this talk about "Papa Gene's Blues" reminded me of a something that happened backstage at one of Brian's Pet Sounds shows in 2000. I was fortunate enough to get backstage passes and attend sound check to one of Brian's Pet Sounds shows. At one point before the show, Jeff Foskett came up to me and my friend and asked what our story was. We began talking about all sorts of things, but at one point Jeff made the comment that my friend had a sort of Mickey Dolenz look about him. Jeff then told the story of how he ran into Mickey recently at Tower Records, and even though they had met/worked together before, Mickey acted like he didn't know Jeff. Funny.

Then I mentioned that I had seen Michael Nesmith perform a few years earlier and that the only Monkees tune he did that night was "Papa Gene's Blues". Then without hesitation Jeff launches into singing the song........ and it's a very wordy song....... and he didn't miss a note. It was quite surreal and very impressive! So obviously he had covered the song at some point in his career.

[Lonely Summer]

Gotta say, I like the Monkees by singles & that's the only time in my listening experience because usually I'm into obscure non-hit album tracks. My favorite song is "Words", it's very interestingly structured, love the contrast of verses & chorus, the bass & of course Mickey's performance. From then on, I regarded him as the best singer of the group. But let's not forget "the true Monkee" Davy Jones who was fortunate to get lead on one of the most beautiful songs that exist, "Daydream Believer". It does indeed cheer me up, as the lyrics suggest, Davy absolutely nailed the happy-go-lucky feel of the song, he was the right choice for it. That said, I find Peter Tork the most likable of the 4. Everyone praises Mike Nesmith for his composing skills, Davy is the "cutest" (not for me), Mickey gets attention for his vocals, but no one seems to say anything about Peter. Strange, considering he could play instruments (piano & bass?) well before joining the band, while the rest caught up later. He also doesn't seem arrogant like Mike, in interviews he comes off very humble.

Re "Papa Gene's Blues", I 1st discovered it via the Iron Leg Blog, in 2007 archive section. Dug it instantly, played a few times in a row &... quickly got tired of it (likely I found better examples of country music).

I have seen all 4 Monkees in their solo shows - never seen all 4 together - and Peter was the most entertaining. By far the funniest - and it seemed to be completely spontaneous. Also the best musician of the group by far. The show I saw, he had his band Shoe Suede Blues with him, and he played a lot of guitar, really, good, rockabilly and blues guitar. Had a good rapport with the band, too, I really felt that, in Peter's eyes, he's just one of the guys in the band, no better or greater than the other guys, he just happens to be the one that got lucky back in the 60's and became a star. Papa Nez wrote a lot of great songs, but I agree, he does come off a bit pompous and arrogant at times. Great talent, but not I guy I ever expect to have a chat with.

[RangeRoverA1]

I have seen all 4 Monkees in their solo shows - never seen all 4 together - and Peter was the most entertaining. By far the funniest - and it seemed to be completely spontaneous. Also the best musician of the group by far. The show I saw, he had his band Shoe Suede Blues with him, and he played a lot of guitar, really, good, rockabilly and blues guitar. Had a good rapport with the band, too, I really felt that, in Peter's eyes, he's just one of the guys in the band, no better or greater than the other guys, he just happens to be the one that got lucky back in the 60's and became a star. Papa Nez wrote a lot of great songs, but I agree, he does come off a bit pompous and arrogant at times. Great talent, but not a guy I ever expect to have a chat with.

Thanks for your recollections, LS, it's very interesting to read the view from the 1st-hand experience. You further confirmed my observations regarding Peter & Mike & I have now even more respect for the former. Speaking of entertaining, here's sth. I found recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naCozHQB568 - hilarious dancing, look at Mickey. Very cool to see them have a go at "At the Hop", one of my favorite rock & roll songs ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLpoawymWw - same TV special, the cover of "Little Darlin'" (I heard only tongue-in-cheek version by Joan Baez on her Forest Hills live album). The face expressions/gestures are golden. Dig the costumes & oily hairdos.

[alf wiedersehen]

I've done some more listening recently - Headquarters and the Birds, the Bees & the Monkees, to be exact.

The first one I listened to was Headquarters. It was a fine album, but not that really sicks out to me. All of the songs maintained a consistent, relatively high quality level throughout (except "Shades of Gray," perhaps). The highs on their other albums far exceed the highs on this album (although, so do the lows), and it makes for a very safe, consistent album where no particular song really stands out and draws me back. My favorites would be:
"You Told Me" - I always love a good Nesmith tune. A nice opener, the guitar and banjo packs a punch that really launches stuff off nicely. The way the songs builds repeatedly and lands in harmonies is a particularly cool part.
"Sunny Girlfriend" - Another good Mike song. The song has a cool intro with the trading off guitar and backward cymbals. The riff that continues throughout the song is very catchy and tremendously fun to listen to and I love the way the drum beat trots along through the song. I also really like Mike's delivery of his lyrics, Micky's harmony, and the more complex vocal arrangements that go up and down during certain harmony parts.
"I Can't Get Her Off My Mind" - This might be more of a guilty pleasure, but I really enjoy this song. It's really pleasant and catchy and I enjoy Davy's singing on this. I also quite like the arrangement. A well-crafted pop song.
"Randy Scouse Git" - Another pleasant, catchy song. The verses have some interesting instrumentation and are quite calm and then launches into this hectic choruses (those transitions are quite smooth, by the way). Micky does a great job singing both sections of this song and I love the layering of the chorus and the verse singing at the end. The freak out at the end is also pretty cool - I love the way that organ just explodes into the song.


I really enjoyed the Birds, the Bees & the Monkees. I see a lot of people complaining about how it seems to be a grab-bag of sorts, but I think it actually holds together quite nicely. I really like the aesthetic that they went for with this record and it's become one of my favorites. Some really great quality contributions from everyone in the band (save a few Davy tracks), although Peter Tork is sorely missing (less Davy, more Peter, I say). I find the weakest tracks to easily be "We Were Made for Each Other" and "the Poster," although I'm sure some will disagree. I find all of Mike's songs to be top-notch. "Auntie's Municipal Court" has a great, Byrds-like groove to it, some interesting lyrics, and great singing and harmonies. "Tapioca Tundra" has a pretty unique intro and seems pretty innovative composition-wise. The music bed is nice and the effects used are really cool. Also, great melody and singing from Papa Nez. "Writing Wrongs" is an another interesting composition from Mike. The song starts with sort of a spooky section and moves into a really cool, Pink Floyd-like freak out. Finally, "Magnolia Simms" is a pretty cool throwback song, nice singing and songwriting as usual. The acoustic and stereo remix versions on the box set make for some nice listening. The outtakes I've heard so far are pretty great, too: "Carlisle Wheeling" is a beautiful song with some really nice banjo, "Little Red Rider" is a nice slice of country music, and "Nine Times Blue" (with Mike's vocal) is a very lovely, tender song.

"Dream World" is an acceptable piece of baroque pop music; "P.O. Box 9847" is a really great, indelible psychedelic song; "I'll Be Back Up on My Feet" is a fun country, show tune-kinda thing; "Zor and Zam" is a fine song from Micky with an interesting message; the hits "Valleri" and "Daydream Believer" are also pretty good, of course.

One song I thought was too, well, gooey, when I was a kid but which I now like is, "I Wanna Be Free."

Yeah, I'm not quite a fan of that song.
I prefer the fast version - the organ kinda reminds me of "Like a Rolling Stone" or "Positively 4th Street."

[Lonely Summer]

I have seen all 4 Monkees in their solo shows - never seen all 4 together - and Peter was the most entertaining. By far the funniest - and it seemed to be completely spontaneous. Also the best musician of the group by far. The show I saw, he had his band Shoe Suede Blues with him, and he played a lot of guitar, really, good, rockabilly and blues guitar. Had a good rapport with the band, too, I really felt that, in Peter's eyes, he's just one of the guys in the band, no better or greater than the other guys, he just happens to be the one that got lucky back in the 60's and became a star. Papa Nez wrote a lot of great songs, but I agree, he does come off a bit pompous and arrogant at times. Great talent, but not a guy I ever expect to have a chat with.

Thanks for your recollections, LS, it's very interesting to read the view from the 1st-hand experience. You further confirmed my observations regarding Peter & Mike & I have now even more respect for the former. Speaking of entertaining, here's sth. I found recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naCozHQB568 - hilarious dancing, look at Mickey. Very cool to see them have a go at "At the Hop", one of my favorite rock & roll songs ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLpoawymWw - same TV special, the cover of "Little Darlin'" (I heard only tongue-in-cheek version by Joan Baez on her Forest Hills live album). The face expressions/gestures are golden. Dig the costumes & oily hairdos.

Have you seen the complete special? Fats Domino, Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis are in the concert scene, but the best part is the show closing "Listen to the Band" jam.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

HEAD is an insane album - absolutely love it (and the film!)

Star Collector is a terrific, unsung gem - one of many the Monkees produced.

[elnombre]

Pool It came up in one of the BBs threads and I thought I'd use this one rather than derailing the former. It's one of the only Monkees albums I've never listened to. Is it as bad as people say or is a lot of it to do with disappointment that they reverted to session musicians and outside writers. Or both?

[Jim Rockford]

Pool It came up in one of the BBs threads and I thought I'd use this one rather than derailing the former. It's one of the only Monkees albums I've never listened to. Is it as bad as people say or is a lot of it to do with disappointment that they reverted to session musicians and outside writers. Or both?

Yeah, it's pretty bad. The songs are weak.

[Lonely Summer]

Pool It came up in one of the BBs threads and I thought I'd use this one rather than derailing the former. It's one of the only Monkees albums I've never listened to. Is it as bad as people say or is a lot of it to do with disappointment that they reverted to session musicians and outside writers. Or both?

Yeah, it's pretty bad. The songs are weak.

They blew their opportunity to have a comeback with new material. It might have had some success, even with that dated 80's production - because that production style was "in" in 1987, but they needed much better songs, and it sure would have helped if they had sung on each other's songs. The Monkees, as singers, actually had a very nice vocal blend - think of "Pleasant Valley Sunday", "Words", "Cuddly Toy", "Forget That Girl". "Pool it" sounds like the work of 3 guys who said "well, we're really popular again, so we have to make an album...but we really don't want to".

[SloopJohnnyB]

You're eventually going to want them all. Buy them in chronological order starting with the first album and going from there. When you become a hardcore fan you'll want those expensive Rhino Handmade Box sets which are worth every penny spent on them . They are in limited quantities, though. Buy them soon if they are not already sold out. The TV show DVDs are worthwhle as well. Enjoy!

Micky Dolenz has a new LIVE DVD out now which is available from his  'store' on Ebay'.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICKY-DOLENZ-DIRECT-NEW-2014-DVD-LIVE-IN-CONCERT-FROM-ARCADA-THEATRE-NOT-SIGNED-/111440355973?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f25ce285#ht_3748wt_1603

[Lee Marshall]

I'm not much of a fan.  By and large I didn't 'dig' Davy's 'sound' at ALL.  Mickey was OK but not great.  Peter and Mike I could take in small doses...which is all we were given anyway.

Stephen Stills and Danny Hutton are 2 guys I know of who auditioned to be Monkees and got turned down.  Too talented?  Too hard to make them march to the 'beat'?   The Monkees might have had more cred if they had more great songs to choose from.  They did record SOME tunes by some valid people. 

TV made the Monkees.  Basically a 30 minute music video every week...and then came syndication....so every day.  Their lp tracks are often more intersting.  They got 'play' on the TV show but by and large weren't PLAYED TO DEATH on the radio like the hits were. 

It was THIS kind of pop-poop which gave rise to free-form FM radio.  [Tommy Roe, Bobby Sherman, The 1910 Fruitgum Company, SOME Paul Revere and the Raiders...hells bells...some Turtles for THAT matter]  People older than 12-13 needed something to listen too that wouldn't ROT their teeth.  The Monkees stuff is fun.  Nothing wrong with that.  It just gets 'old' pretty quickly 'cause basically what ya see is what ya get.  I have their greatest hits.  My wife bought it.  It includes some album cuts thankfully.  Good enough.

I met up with Mickey twice...Davy once in person and once on the phone.  I wasn't impressed.

[alf wiedersehen]

Stephen Stills and Danny Hutton are 2 guys I know of who auditioned to be Monkees and got turned down.  Too talented? 

Mickey Dolenz was a better singer than either of those two, and Michael Nesmith was a better songwriter. Too talented? Sure, that's why people are turned down for roles all the time. 

Too hard to make them march to the 'beat'?   

If you knew anything about the Monkees, you would know that they couldn't make them "march to the beat" either. They continually demanded more and more control and input into their music, and they were finally given it after they ousted Don Kirshner. Michael Nesmith literally punched a hole in the wall next to Don's face during one of their confrontations.

The Monkees might have had more cred if they had more great songs to choose from.  They did record SOME tunes by some valid people.

Here are some great songs: "Take a Giant Step", "Last Train to Clarksville", "Papa Gene's Blues", "Sweet Young Thing", "Mary, Mary", "I'm Not Your Steppin' Stone", "I'm a Believer", "You Told Me", "You Just May Be the One", "Randy Scouse Git", "Salesman", "the Door Into Summer", "Love Is Only Sleeping", "Cuddly Toy", "Words", "What Am I Doing Hangin' Round?", "Pleasant Valley Sunday", "Don't Call on Me", "Goin' Down", "Auntie's Municipal Court", "Tapioca Tundra", "Daydream Believer", "P.O. Box 9847", "Valleri", "Porpoise Song", "Circle Sky", "As We Go Along", "Daddy's Song", "Do I Have to Do This All Over Again", "Carlisle Wheeling", and "The Girl I Left Behind Me". I'm being picky - and I'm not even completely familiar with all of their catalogue.

TV made the Monkees.

The Monkees released "the Last Train to Clarksville" before the TV show aired and it was a hit.

Basically a 30 minute music video every week...

The TV show was just like any other TV show - had a plot, jokes, characters - except they played a few songs during the episode. So what? The TV show was about a band and the stuff they were up to. Bands perform songs, right?

It was THIS kind of pop-poop which gave rise to free-form FM radio.  [Tommy Roe, Bobby Sherman, The 1910 Fruitgum Company, SOME Paul Revere and the Raiders...hells bells...some Turtles for THAT matter]

You're blaming the Monkees for something they don't have control over. How can you blame a band for someone they inspired? It's not like the Monkees were standing behind them cheering them on. That's like blaming the Beach Boys for all the lacklustre surf stuff that was released in their wake. Don't blame the Monkees, blame the radio stations that decided to play those bands.

People older than 12-13 needed something to listen too that wouldn't ROT their teeth.  The Monkees stuff is fun.  Nothing wrong with that.  It just gets 'old' pretty quickly 'cause basically what ya see is what ya get. I have their greatest hits.  My wife bought it.  It includes some album cuts thankfully.  Good enough.

How can you proclaim to know anything about the Monkees and their music if all you've heard is some scattered album tracks and the big hits that were played on the radio? "What ya see is what ya get"? What does that even mean? They wrote songs, not novels. Are you expecing to peel back layer after layer of deep meaning in a pop song? I find your remarks about age and how the Monkees' stuff is "fun" to be condescending and patronizing.

I met up with Mickey twice...Davy once in person and once on the phone.  I wasn't impressed.

Oh, how classy. Regardless, that shouldn't even matter. It's the music - not the people.

[Lee Marshall]

I don't have time to argue with you.  Your dismissal of Stephen Stills and Danny Hutton in favour of Mickey Dolenz says it all.  The Monkees were...primarily...for the amusement of little girls and their parents.

[alf wiedersehen]

I don't have time to argue with you.

Oh, lucky me.

[elnombre]

I don't have time to argue with you.  Your dismissal of Stephen Stills and Danny Hutton in favour of Mickey Dolenz says it all.  The Monkees were...primarily...for the amusement of little girls and their parents.

It must make things so much easier to know you have the only and correct opinion. You met Micky and weren't impressed huh? I doubt he was either to be fair.

[elnombre]

Behold this shitty video of a supremely talentless 69 year old singing crap songs aimed at 8 year old girls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK-9ZRDCPxY

[Lee Marshall]

OK...I get that they were 'fun'...and that they sold a whole buncha records and that certain songwriters were exposed to a wide audience through them.  They had their part to play...and they played it well.  The perception looking back will be different than it was at the time.  The actual musicians in the group left...especially "Wool Hat'...and then Peter.  It was what it was.  THAT won't change.  As for Mickey and Davy?  I'll supply NO detail.  

[elnombre]

As for Mickey and Davy?  I'll supply NO detail.  

Good, nobody asked you to. Besides, essentially saying a dead guy was a jerk and offering no explanation tells us all we need to know about the whole thing.

[Lee Marshall]

I did NOT say that Davy Jones was a jerk.