Why the Mike/Bruce Combo?

[CenturyDeprived]

I'll never understand why people feel the need to ignore the things they don't like about their favorite superstars.  

Brian is like GOD to music, I agree with that... I also love the guy, he's great, I wish he were my next door neighbor.

To act like he's this harmed, hurt, beaten down good guy who Mike Love stole the Beach Boys name from is a little rich, though.

Just a couple facts that I'm sure Andrew will chime in and dispute, in his smarmy way

1. Brian knowingly, purposefully, intently f***ed Mike out of millions of dollars in song writing credits
2. Brian voted to let Mike use the Beach Boys name
3. Brian makes money every time Mike hobbles out onto stage at the Mohecan Sun Casino in South Dakota or wherever the f*** he is tonight
4. Brian cound not, and would not, support even half the tour dates that Mike does
5. Brian has made a lot of money off the beach boys doing a lot of nothing for a lot of years
6. For as hard as Mike is to work with, when you work with Brian you first must work with the dozen sycophants that coddle him
7. Brian makes more money, and wants more money, deservedly so, than Mike does

I love the guy to death but Mike's not the only hard one to work with here, folks.


My point?  The Brianista revisionist history thing gets a little old.  The guy is stlil just as great at everything if you'll admit he has shortcomings, and don't automatically assume that every business deal he has that goes sour has nothing to do with his sweet, innocent, never harmed a butterfly self.  

All of the above things you state are true, and I've certainly never denied any of them or claimed Brian to be an angel.  It's surely very tough working/writing with Brian in a current-day situation - unusually so. No doubt about it. Perhaps Beck's recent interview reflects that. But it *can* be done, great results *can* still happen, as witnessed by a good number of amazing tracks over the last decade. It just means the people working with him (in this case, his old bandmates) have to be *exceptionally* patient and go-with-the-flow, and put their priorities in the backseat often times for a guy who has had unusually tough times in life... Since some of his bandmates found themselves able to do that (the ones who *weren't* family, no less), IMO there seems no good reason to me why ALL of them weren't able to, other than relatively petty things getting in the way.

I unfortunately think that undercurrents of 50-year old grudges that perhaps never fully 100% emotionally resolved, were still very much at play during C50, and are probably still alive and kicking today. Perhaps Mike's blatantly unfair songwriting omissions were a factor in why he wouldn't bend enough (surely a LOT) to avoid a C50 implosion. Maybe Mike winning the songwriting lawsuit, and Brian (perhaps) saying "sorry" didn't truly, truly cut it for Mike in the back of his mind. And, Brian probably still has a mountain of resentment over lost artistic opportunities that I'm sure he still blames his cousin for, even if he put those feelings aside for a time. If Brian feels that way to *some* degree in his heart, IMO he probably expects overwhelming bend-over-backwards treatment by his bandmates partly to help make up for what he perceives as past injustices.  

Whatever Brian was asking for (continued changes to the touring schedule, songwriting "promises" evolving due to circumstances) - whatever the breaking point(s) was that somehow made Mike say "f*ck it" and call the waamulance - just HOW huge a sacrifice by Mike could it have been? It's not like Mike was being asked to sacrifice his first-born child or anything.   I presume it would have just involved lessening Mike's position of power/control over certain things, probable adjusting to less touring, and probable less short term monetary profit...BUT, with many, many almost guaranteed HUGE legacy-related bonuses, not the least of which would have included a more energized/happy/TRULY appreciative cousin.

I'm trying to find a way to see Mike's eventual actions as anything other than shortsighted and very lame (to put it nicely)... and while I honestly appreciate hearing dissenting opinions by some people who defend him (as this is a "well rounded" BB board), I'm nonetheless unable to find a way to empathize with Mike for the path that he took.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just a couple facts that I'm sure Andrew will chime in and dispute, in his smarmy way

1. Brian knowingly, purposefully, intently f***ed Mike out of millions of dollars in song writing credits
2. Brian voted to let Mike use the Beach Boys name
3. Brian makes money every time Mike hobbles out onto stage at the Mohecan Sun Casino in South Dakota or wherever the f*** he is tonight
4. Brian cound not, and would not, support even half the tour dates that Mike does
5. Brian has made a lot of money off the beach boys doing a lot of nothing for a lot of years
6. For as hard as Mike is to work with, when you work with Brian you first must work with the dozen sycophants that coddle him
7. Brian makes more money, and wants more money, deservedly so, than Mike does

I love the guy to death but Mike's not the only hard one to work with here, folks.


My point?  The Brianista revisionist history thing gets a little old.  The guy is stlil just as great at everything if you'll admit he has shortcomings, and don't automatically assume that every business deal he has that goes sour has nothing to do with his sweet, innocent, never harmed a butterfly self.  

1. If by "knowingly, purposefully, intently" (that's intentionally, btw) you mean "by omission, by doing nothing about it despite repeatedly promising to confront Murry about it"... then yes. He did. He admits that.

2. Strictly speaking, Brian's representative did that, but the premise holds true.

3. Yup, as do Alan, Carl's estate and Mike himself.

4. Arguable point here. He's done 70-odd solo shows a year in the past. Year in, year out... probably not.

5. True.

6. You're assuming Mike's hard to work with in the first instance: that aside, the past and current evidence suggests that only one person has been prepared to work extensively with Brian more than once - Joe Thomas - and as he came waving a checkbook each time, that kinda disqualifies him. The problem working with Brian isn't just Brian, it's his management team. We all know at least one of the horror stories...

7. Again true.

Sufficiently oleaginous ?

[HeyJude]

I'll never understand why people feel the need to ignore the things they don't like about their favorite superstars. 

Brian is like GOD to music, I agree with that... I also love the guy, he's great, I wish he were my next door neighbor.

To act like he's this harmed, hurt, beaten down good guy who Mike Love stole the Beach Boys name from is a little rich, though.

Just a couple facts that I'm sure Andrew will chime in and dispute, in his smarmy way

1. Brian knowingly, purposefully, intently f***ed Mike out of millions of dollars in song writing credits
2. Brian voted to let Mike use the Beach Boys name
3. Brian makes money every time Mike hobbles out onto stage at the Mohecan Sun Casino in South Dakota or wherever the f*** he is tonight
4. Brian cound not, and would not, support even half the tour dates that Mike does
5. Brian has made a lot of money off the beach boys doing a lot of nothing for a lot of years
6. For as hard as Mike is to work with, when you work with Brian you first must work with the dozen sycophants that coddle him
7. Brian makes more money, and wants more money, deservedly so, than Mike does

I love the guy to death but Mike's not the only hard one to work with here, folks.


My point?  The Brianista revisionist history thing gets a little old.  The guy is stlil just as great at everything if you'll admit he has shortcomings, and don't automatically assume that every business deal he has that goes sour has nothing to do with his sweet, innocent, never harmed a butterfly self. 

As always, I can only speak for myself, but for me the demise of C50 isn’t about how Brian was injured or hurt by Mike. Brian did and does live comfortably, and continues to make music. He got over the C50 debacle pretty quickly, if he was ever that upset by it in the first place.

The reason I, and believe most fans, are bummed by the demise of C50 is that the fans lost out, and also that the band put out such a good product for C50 that it’s just objectively a shame that a group that puts together something so great would just piss it away.

The other points don’t really matter much in relation to this. Brian screwed Mike out of songwriting credits and royalties, yes. A true reading of the events suggests, to some, that the amount of songwriting credit pursued in the lawsuit was slight or far overreaching, and Mike himself has said in relatively recent interviews specifically that HE (Mike) doesn’t blame Brian for it because Brian was too timid, f-ed up, etc.

It’s of no consequence really, but I would debate whether, based on the evidence at hand, Brian “wants more money than Mike”, although that could mean a few different things. A stronger desire to make money as compared to Mike’s desire? Or that he wants to amass more money than Mike amasses? Either way, Brian’s massive overhead costs involved in coddling him strongly suggest, in some areas, he cares far less about money than Mike, at least in terms of operating costs. Mike by his own admission likes running operations with low overhead costs to maximize profits. Mike is the one who specifically said in an interview that he hears a cash register ringing when he performs Beach Boys songs. There’s no doubt all these guys enjoy their wealth and in most senses seek it out. That’s not a unique concept.

[HeyJude]

At some point, an album becomes a Brian Wilson solo album featuring guest artists and isn't a Beach Boy album. So, again, really not sure why people wanted the Beach Boy reunion to continue. When the guy wants to dictate every term of the album, won't allow Al Jardine any songs on the album (at least Mike got one, and it's a solo track at that), won't collaborate with Mike (or Al or Dave) on songs to any meaningful degree, insists on having Joe Thomas put a heavy hand on everything (including drenching the "live" album with Joe Thomas signature autotune), and stays on his own bus and rarely mingles with the rest of the band backstage, then that's not really a reunion. If that's the way Brian preferred it, he really is better off touring and recording as a solo act and never having any other Beach Boys reunions. His fans are happy, he's happy. He draws crowds about the same as the official Beach Boys. People who prefer one style of music or the other have a choice. It's all good.

I'm sorry, but you just described freaking "Pet Sounds" and "Smile" pretty much, two of the crowning acheivements of Brian's and the BB's career.

Those two project, as well as TWGMTR, were more than a Brian solo album because it combined everybody's best talents: Brian's writing, Brian's vocal arranging, and the GROUP vocals. The vocal intro to "Pacific Coast Highway" is reason enough to warrant keeping the entire reunited group together. I don't care if Brian wrote that, or Joe Thomas, or Mike Love's secretary. They still sound amazing singing together, which is pretty effing amazing considering Carl's not in the blend anymore.

[Cam Mott]

It's not a shame if Brian doesn't live up to his own agreements but it is a shame if Brian lives up to his own agreements?
 

[Nicko1234]

All of the above things you state are true, and I've certainly never denied any of them or claimed Brian to be an angel.  It's surely very tough working/writing with Brian in a current-day situation - unusually so. No doubt about it. Perhaps Beck's recent interview reflects that. But it *can* be done, great results *can* still happen, as witnessed by a good number of amazing tracks over the last decade. It just means the people working with him (in this case, his old bandmates) have to be *exceptionally* patient and go-with-the-flow, and put their priorities in the backseat often times for a guy who has had unusually tough times in life... Since some of his bandmates found themselves able to do that (the ones who *weren't* family, no less), IMO there seems no good reason to me why ALL of them weren't able to, other than relatively petty things getting in the way.

I unfortunately think that undercurrents of 50-year old grudges that perhaps never fully 100% emotionally resolved, were still very much at play during C50, and are probably still alive and kicking today. Perhaps Mike's blatantly unfair songwriting omissions were a factor in why he wouldn't bend enough (surely a LOT) to avoid a C50 implosion. Maybe Mike winning the songwriting lawsuit, and Brian (perhaps) saying "sorry" didn't truly, truly cut it for Mike in the back of his mind. And, Brian probably still has a mountain of resentment over lost artistic opportunities that I'm sure he still blames his cousin for, even if he put those feelings aside for a time. If Brian feels that way to *some* degree in his heart, IMO he probably expects overwhelming bend-over-backwards treatment by his bandmates partly to help make up for what he perceives as past injustices.  

Whatever Brian was asking for (continued changes to the touring schedule, songwriting "promises" evolving due to circumstances) - whatever the breaking point(s) was that somehow made Mike say "f*ck it" and call the waamulance - just HOW huge a sacrifice by Mike could it have been? It's not like Mike was being asked to sacrifice his first-born child or anything.   I presume it would have just involved lessening Mike's position of power/control over certain things, probable adjusting to less touring, and probable less short term monetary profit...BUT, with many, many almost guaranteed HUGE legacy-related bonuses, not the least of which would have included a more energized/happy/TRULY appreciative cousin.

I'm trying to find a way to see Mike's eventual actions as anything other than shortsighted and very lame (to put it nicely)... and while I honestly appreciate hearing dissenting opinions by some people who defend him (as this is a "well rounded" BB board), I'm nonetheless unable to find a way to empathize with Mike for the path that he took.

I`ll be honest and say that I think some of your comments are rather naive.

The C50 thing happened because it made sound business sense. They knew that they could use the anniversary to sell tickets and albums. Now I can completely understand fans wishing that they`d played some more shows that were on offer and not ended when they did and that Mike was in the wrong over that. But your idea that Mike should have agreed to essentially ceasing touring as The Beach Boys for however long Brian needed to make a new album is from the moon.  Of course that wasn`t going to happen and if you were in Mike`s position then you wouldn`t have agreed to that either.

When you talk about some of his bandmates being able to put their priorities to one side, I guess you are talking about Al and David. The obvious reason for that is simply that they don`t have other priorities.  Harsh perhaps but playing the occasional solo gig or show with the Endless Summer band is a completely different thing to Mike playing 100+ shows a year. What did Al and David have to lose?

When you mention `HUGE legacy-related bonuses`, do you mean if the C50 group had stayed together permanently? Obviously there was never any chance of that happening and if they had only recorded one more album it would have had a negligible effect on the legacy.

I think you make far too much of the effects of Brian being `energized and happy` too. For many years Brian seems to have constant support in his solo career from both his family and his bandmates. He has obviously been productive in terms of making an album every couple of years or so but nearly every album has been made up of covers or reworkings of his old songs (That Lucky Old Sun being the only exception in his solo career). The idea that Mike giving Brian his support would suddenly make him more creative/inspired isn`t really backed up by the facts. If anything, the support that Brian received from his wife and band seemed to coincide with his writer`s block.

Finally though I think what you and Cam choose to overlook (from opposite ends of the spectrum) is that the C50 tour was planned well in advance and went as much to plan as could be expected. Maybe Mike thought he would be more involved in songwriting (naive if he did imo) and Brian obviously agreed to add more shows as things progressed. They all knew it was intended to end by a certain point though as everybody knew about the October shows that Mike and Bruce had booked. Now the idea that Mike could have cancelled those shows and played a few more shows with the C50 is credible. The idea that with no planning whatsoever that he would consent to giving up the lifestyle that he has led for the past 50 years even though is not within the bounds of credibility at all. You or I certainly wouldn`t do it that`s for sure. 

[CenturyDeprived]

All of the above things you state are true, and I've certainly never denied any of them or claimed Brian to be an angel.  It's surely very tough working/writing with Brian in a current-day situation - unusually so. No doubt about it. Perhaps Beck's recent interview reflects that. But it *can* be done, great results *can* still happen, as witnessed by a good number of amazing tracks over the last decade. It just means the people working with him (in this case, his old bandmates) have to be *exceptionally* patient and go-with-the-flow, and put their priorities in the backseat often times for a guy who has had unusually tough times in life... Since some of his bandmates found themselves able to do that (the ones who *weren't* family, no less), IMO there seems no good reason to me why ALL of them weren't able to, other than relatively petty things getting in the way.

I unfortunately think that undercurrents of 50-year old grudges that perhaps never fully 100% emotionally resolved, were still very much at play during C50, and are probably still alive and kicking today. Perhaps Mike's blatantly unfair songwriting omissions were a factor in why he wouldn't bend enough (surely a LOT) to avoid a C50 implosion. Maybe Mike winning the songwriting lawsuit, and Brian (perhaps) saying "sorry" didn't truly, truly cut it for Mike in the back of his mind. And, Brian probably still has a mountain of resentment over lost artistic opportunities that I'm sure he still blames his cousin for, even if he put those feelings aside for a time. If Brian feels that way to *some* degree in his heart, IMO he probably expects overwhelming bend-over-backwards treatment by his bandmates partly to help make up for what he perceives as past injustices.  

Whatever Brian was asking for (continued changes to the touring schedule, songwriting "promises" evolving due to circumstances) - whatever the breaking point(s) was that somehow made Mike say "f*ck it" and call the waamulance - just HOW huge a sacrifice by Mike could it have been? It's not like Mike was being asked to sacrifice his first-born child or anything.   I presume it would have just involved lessening Mike's position of power/control over certain things, probable adjusting to less touring, and probable less short term monetary profit...BUT, with many, many almost guaranteed HUGE legacy-related bonuses, not the least of which would have included a more energized/happy/TRULY appreciative cousin.

I'm trying to find a way to see Mike's eventual actions as anything other than shortsighted and very lame (to put it nicely)... and while I honestly appreciate hearing dissenting opinions by some people who defend him (as this is a "well rounded" BB board), I'm nonetheless unable to find a way to empathize with Mike for the path that he took.

I`ll be honest and say that I think some of your comments are rather naive.

The C50 thing happened because it made sound business sense. They knew that they could use the anniversary to sell tickets and albums. Now I can completely understand fans wishing that they`d played some more shows that were on offer and not ended when they did and that Mike was in the wrong over that. But your idea that Mike should have agreed to essentially ceasing touring as The Beach Boys for however long Brian needed to make a new album is from the moon.   Of course that wasn`t going to happen and if you were in Mike`s position then you wouldn`t have agreed to that either.

The thing is – we really don’t know if that “extreme” scenario would be what was requested from Mike by Brian’s team. Maybe that was what was being asked of him… but, maybe Brian’s team was asking for something different, like asking for M&B to tour in the meantime (just not using the BB name), or for some other scenario midway between.

But even if Mike would have been asked for the utmost, extreme, "unconscionable" thing (to give touring under the BB name thing a rest for a little while, and then ALL return to the road united with more built-up anticipation), I don’t see why this couldn’t have happened, and why it would have been such an unreasonable (hypothetical) request. Yes, we know Mike is very, very used to touring non-stop, and that it seems to be an addiction of sorts to him, and IMO a destructive addiction. Especially since 1998, when he could be in the driver’s seat, doing what he pleases when he wants to. But all sorts of bands give touring a rest, record an album, and then return to the road. The BBs have historically done it themselves too, as evidenced by many months-long gaps in touring that have been documented in the BBs In Concert book. It shouldn’t be a crazy concept, but it’s a concept that Mike would have had to cede control/certainty over.  

When you talk about some of his bandmates being able to put their priorities to one side, I guess you are talking about Al and David. The obvious reason for that is simply that they don`t have other priorities.   Harsh perhaps but playing the occasional solo gig or show with the Endless Summer band is a completely different thing to Mike playing 100+ shows a year. What did Al and David have to lose?

When you mention `HUGE legacy-related bonuses`, do you mean if the C50 group had stayed together permanently? Obviously there was never any chance of that happening and if they had only recorded one more album it would have had a negligible effect on the legacy.

I’d argue that if they’d stayed together, recorded more album(s), made less live appearances with an emphasis of quality over quantity, and publicly established a legitimate, long-term mending of fences, that the brand name would be held in a considerably higher regard - there’d probably be an award-winning documentary made about it, and hearing the band name might begin to have a lot less people cringe (due to immediate associations with things like Stamos and Full House) when they think of the BBs. We can't know just how much goodwill they were *sooo* close to having that just slipped away.

I think you make far too much of the effects of Brian being `energized and happy` too. For many years Brian seems to have constant support in his solo career from both his family and his bandmates. He has obviously been productive in terms of making an album every couple of years or so but nearly every album has been made up of covers or reworkings of his old songs (That Lucky Old Sun being the only exception in his solo career). The idea that Mike giving Brian his support would suddenly make him more creative/inspired isn`t really backed up by the facts. If anything, the support that Brian received from his wife and band seemed to coincide with his writer`s block.

It’s very fortunate that Brian does have a support system these days, but I think it’s fair to say that resolving long-term emotional hurdles have historically shown to have a positive aspect on Brian personally and creatively. I’d say that whatever bad blood still exists between these guys is still one of those hurdles. I don’t think that Mike giving Brian his support would cause Brian to magically turn into his 1966 creative self, but I think there would absolutely be some positive benefits.

Finally though I think what you and Cam choose to overlook (from opposite ends of the spectrum) is that the C50 tour was planned well in advance and went as much to plan as could be expected. Maybe Mike thought he would be more involved in songwriting (naive if he did imo) and Brian obviously agreed to add more shows as things progressed. They all knew it was intended to end by a certain point though as everybody knew about the October shows that Mike and Bruce had booked. Now the idea that Mike could have cancelled those shows and played a few more shows with the C50 is credible. The idea that with no planning whatsoever that he would consent to giving up the lifestyle that he has led for the past 50 years even though is not within the bounds of credibility at all. You or I certainly wouldn`t do it that`s for sure.  

Without insider info, you and I can only speculate about the specifics of sacrifices that would have been (or were in fact) asked of Mike… but all I can say is that IMO, on the whole, it’s usually been in Mike’s nature to resist change and prioritize “sure things” over taking chances, and I think hindsight has shown that to be unfortunate, and at times detrimental. I don’t think Mike was/would have been asked to “give up his lifestyle”, but more to amend/evolve certain aspects of it. In that alternate universe, he’d still be filthy rich and get to play BB songs a bunch, I’m sure.  Where there's a will, there's a way, and I'm certain some workable solution could have been planned out. But it's obvious to me that Mike's ego and lust for control came first.

[mikeddonn]

The are quite a lot of threads at the moment discussing the end of the C50 so I thought after 2 years I might as well comment on it!

I think all Brian wanted was to play some more dates in a few more places before the tour ended later in 2012.  Mike could also have given Brian the chance to show up anytime after that and sit in ( like in the 90s) which Brian probably wouldn't have done anyway.

The legacy has not been affected in any way IMHO.  Most members of the public outside the US probably don't even know there is a Beach Boys Touring Bands doing the rounds, and when they come here they probably wouldn't know who was it in or not.

I like all the guys and value all of their contributions, but the bottom line is without a Brian Wilson Mike and the other guys would not still be able to make as much of a living as they do from the music business.  So I don't know why anyone would grudge Brian earning money from Mike and Bruce touring.  The guys, without Brian, might have been in other bands and touring 60s festivals sharing he bill with other artists from the time like the Yardbirds or the Zombies.  But they had a genius at the helm who wrote and produced music that ensures the band are still held in high esteem.  He churned out enough tunes to ensure they can play enough well know songs of their own without having to share the bill with others (which would mean less dollars for the touring group).

As far as who wrote what on TWGMTR, if Joe could come up with the intro to Pacific Coast Highway and the music to it then he is wasted in his current role.  He should be out there spreading his genius and writing hit after hit because he has some talent!  I have no doubt Brian needs help (and some stuff through the years sounds like Scott B and others helping Brian sound like Brian, and sounding like an imitation) but equally I have no doubt he can still produce music only he can make, albeit less often (who else in their 70s can still do it as often?)

Lastly, I think the guys probably don't dislike each other as much as some fans seem to think, which is why they could get back in a studio quicker than some think.

[Jim V.]

Funny that Cam never admitted that Pet Sounds and SMiLE are "authentic" Beach Boys music, since you know, Mike didn't write it. It seems he only responds to things when he thinks he has the "correct" answer. When he doesn't he simply says "hey man, that's your opinion".

[Cam Mott]

Funny that Cam never admitted that Pet Sounds and SMiLE are "authentic" Beach Boys music, since you know, Mike didn't write it. It seems he only responds to things when he thinks he has the "correct" answer. When he doesn't he simply says "hey man, that's your opinion".

It doesn't have anything to do with TWGMTR. Yes it authentic. Mike doesn't have to write every song. Brian doesn't have to write every song. TWGMTR sounds to me like imitations of glory days BBs music. Thomas and Bon Jovi and Mike all sound like they are imitating Mike back in the day. Brian and Thomas sound like they are imitating Brian from back in the day. I'd prefer Mike and Brian imitating Mike and Brian. You can think whatever you want.

It's super flattering how much you care about my opinions. [tear] You want a hug?

[Jonathan Blum]

It doesn't have anything to do with TWGMTR. Yes it authentic. Mike doesn't have to write every song. Brian doesn't have to write every song. TWGMTR sounds to me like imitations of glory days BBs music. Thomas and Bon Jovi and Mike all sound like they are imitating Mike back in the day.

And again, I don't know where you get the idea that Bon Jovi was even trying to imitate Mike.  As opposed to, y'know, imitate Brian circa "Til I Die".  Which Mike similarly thought was a major downer.

Regards,
Jon Blum

[SMiLE Brian]

Mike was imitated himself for 30 years with such success as GTTB and SIP.

[Cam Mott]

It doesn't have anything to do with TWGMTR. Yes it authentic. Mike doesn't have to write every song. Brian doesn't have to write every song. TWGMTR sounds to me like imitations of glory days BBs music. Thomas and Bon Jovi and Mike all sound like they are imitating Mike back in the day.

And again, I don't know where you get the idea that Bon Jovi was even trying to imitate Mike.  As opposed to, y'know, imitate Brian circa "Til I Die".  Which Mike similarly thought was a major downer.

Regards,
Jon Blum

OK, you don't get it.

[Jim V.]

It doesn't have anything to do with TWGMTR. Yes it authentic. Mike doesn't have to write every song. Brian doesn't have to write every song. TWGMTR sounds to me like imitations of glory days BBs music. Thomas and Bon Jovi and Mike all sound like they are imitating Mike back in the day.

And again, I don't know where you get the idea that Bon Jovi was even trying to imitate Mike.  As opposed to, y'know, imitate Brian circa "Til I Die".  Which Mike similarly thought was a major downer.

Regards,
Jon Blum

OK, you don't get it.

Explain to us how he doesn't get it.

And yes, I care about your opinion, just like I care about every other major posters opinion on this board. I hope to learn something.

However, it seems like you are kinda intellectually inconsistent with this stuff. As SMiLE Brian pointed out, we've never heard you say "Goin' to the Beach" was a pathetic imitation of the 1962 Beach Boys, but that's obviously what it was.

And also, have you spoken to Brian, Joe and Bon Jovi? They told you they were going for an imitation of the groups glory days? If they indeed did, then I apologize. Otherwise, maybe Brian, with "Summer's Gone" was just trying to achieve a poignant moment in what he thought could be the last "Beach Boys" song. Which rather than "imitating" was perhaps just consolidating their strengths. Which included using Mike Love's aged voice on parts of it.

[Cam Mott]

I'm fine with him not getting it. I'm fine with you not agreeing.

I've said it the best I can. Sorry. Maybe you could argue with each other's opinions and tastes.

[Robbie Mac]

I'm fine with him not getting it. I'm fine with you not agreeing.

I've said it the best I can. Sorry. Maybe you could argue with each other's opinions and tastes.

But there is still a disconnect between what you are trying to say and how the rest of us are interpreting it.

[the captain]

I'm just glad someone finally fucking said oleaginous around here.

[Cam Mott]

I'm fine with him not getting it. I'm fine with you not agreeing.

I've said it the best I can. Sorry. Maybe you could argue with each other's opinions and tastes.

But there is still a disconnect between what you are trying to say and how the rest of us are interpreting it.

OK. I guess that's the way we will leave it.

[alf wiedersehen]

However, it seems like you are kinda intellectually inconsistent with this stuff. As SMiLE Brian pointed out, we've never heard you say "Goin' to the Beach" was a pathetic imitation of the 1962 Beach Boys, but that's obviously what it was.

And also, have you spoken to Brian, Joe and Bon Jovi? They told you they were going for an imitation of the groups glory days? If they indeed did, then I apologize.

Oh, and you've spoken to Mike about "Goin' to the Beach" and "Summer in Paradise" being pathetic imitations of the 1962 Beach Boys?

[Jim V.]

However, it seems like you are kinda intellectually inconsistent with this stuff. As SMiLE Brian pointed out, we've never heard you say "Goin' to the Beach" was a pathetic imitation of the 1962 Beach Boys, but that's obviously what it was.

And also, have you spoken to Brian, Joe and Bon Jovi? They told you they were going for an imitation of the groups glory days? If they indeed did, then I apologize.

Oh, and you've spoken to Mike about "Goin' to the Beach" and "Summer in Paradise" being pathetic imitations of the 1962 Beach Boys?

No, I don't make statements of fact about things I don't know. I offer opinions. Cam on the other hand always talks about "promises Brian has made" and this and that, and it's like unless you actually have anything to back up this information, perhaps it would be better to offer this stuff as opinion rather than pretending you actually know ANYTHING about the subject at hand. For instance there are posters like Nicko, who although I pretty much don't agree with at all, at least makes it obvious he is not chatting on the phone with Mike getting the scoop. Cam on the other hand spreads what he THINKS might be the truth as fact, when really it's just his opinion.

[bgas]

However, it seems like you are kinda intellectually inconsistent with this stuff. As SMiLE Brian pointed out, we've never heard you say "Goin' to the Beach" was a pathetic imitation of the 1962 Beach Boys, but that's obviously what it was.

And also, have you spoken to Brian, Joe and Bon Jovi? They told you they were going for an imitation of the groups glory days? If they indeed did, then I apologize.

Oh, and you've spoken to Mike about "Goin' to the Beach" and "Summer in Paradise" being pathetic imitations of the 1962 Beach Boys?

No, I don't make statements of fact about things I don't know. I offer opinions. Cam on the other hand always talks about "promises Brian has made" and this and that, and it's like unless you actually have anything to back up this information, perhaps it would be better to offer this stuff as opinion rather than pretending you actually know ANYTHING about the subject at hand. For instance there are posters like Nicko, who although I pretty much don't agree with at all, at least makes it obvious he is not chatting on the phone with Mike getting the scoop. Cam on the other hand spreads what he THINKS might be the truth as fact, when really it's just his opinion.

Jeez. He states his opinion. You want to take it that he's saying it's a fact, keep on with it. We're all stating our opinions  (Except AGD, who has the facts) 
You guys hammer at each other all day long, day after day, on whose opinion is more righter. Guess that's what keeps your interest level up? If that's the case, it works for me.
As always, my opinion....

[Mikie]

Fucking boring, really. Nothin' or nobody else to argue with, I guess. No wives or girlfriends to yell at, no dog to kick. It's like going by a car wreck. You don't really want to look so you quickly scan over it as you drive by but you can't help but rubberneck anyway to see if there's anything interesting. Or not. Move it along, move it along. Nothing here to see.  Next thread!!  

Good gawwwwwwwd, people!  

[Nicko1234]

I’d argue that if they’d stayed together, recorded more album(s), made less live appearances with an emphasis of quality over quantity, and publicly established a legitimate, long-term mending of fences, that the brand name would be held in a considerably higher regard - there’d probably be an award-winning documentary made about it, and hearing the band name might begin to have a lot less people cringe (due to immediate associations with things like Stamos and Full House) when they think of the BBs. We can't know just how much goodwill they were *sooo* close to having that just slipped away.

Ok. I have cut down your post just to make it easier to reply to.

I think you overestimate a lot of things about the reunion tour and about how realistic the possibilities were that, even if it had carried on for a few more months, Brian would have wanted it to be done every year. The fact that Mike and Bruce have been able to go back to touring in their current line up with such ease shows just how little many members of the general public care about who is on stage with The Beach Boys. I don`t think anyone cares about `mending of fences` outside of the hardcore fanbase and the legacy of the group is already set in stone. Brian and Mike getting on stage together in their mid-70s would change nothing about that.

[Don Malcolm]

I'm just glad someone finally fucking said oleaginous around here.

I could not agree more, Captain. (Isn't "oleaginous" what happens when you leave margarine out in the sun too long??) 

[Ron]

All I was trying to articulate, is that I don't buy Brian being the victim in this thing, whether it's he himself stating it, or his fans... i'm also a fan of course.  

An niteresting thing that someone above mentioned, was that Brian probably only wanted to do a couple weeks worth of extra dates or whatever... which sounds likely....

which ultimately means that really the whole to-do is just over a months worth of missed opportunities.  So Mike couldn't be bothered to give a couple weeks of extra work, and Brian got so upset over a couple of weeks worth of work... Most normal people could have worked something out.  

That it's apparently driven a wedge between the BB's so they are once again not working together (so far) on future projects just shows how trepidacious and strained their relationship is at this late date.  Sad.