Why the Mike/Bruce Combo?

[CenturyDeprived]

As for Brian deserving the reigns of the Beach Boys back as a reward for the hard times he's been through, then perhaps he and his wife should never have voted to give Mike the Beach Boys name rights exclusively, or at least made sure it was only for a certain number of years.

Although it obviously (as proven by events by the people involved) is unrealistic, it would be nice to think that something like this falling into place could come about naturally, without it being a legal requirement of sorts (ie. a set "end date" for the M&B BB brand license) for Mike to allow Brian to be back in the drivers' seat.  

Maybe Mike just has had an inherent distrust of any/all people in Brian's circle (going all the way back to '65-ish, continuing to the Landy era, and to Joe Thomas, etc.) and feels that Brian's decisions are less about what Brian wants, and are more about what people in Brian's circle want. And I could certainly understand/empathize how Mike could feel that way.

But ultimately, despite this, I think that Mike's ego, and his clinging to the brand name for the M&B show as a way to "make up" for the myriad of ways which he feels he's been historically slighted in terms of public recognition, etc, is what drives him to put his needs ahead of the happy ending the band and brand name should've had.  

Another irony in this whole story, is that Mike himself probably felt as though he was being "fired", or at least "demoted", from his position of power in BB-land once the C50 tour got underway. And, in my opinion, his resultant backlash at this feeling and fear of losing control is what led to the dissolution of the reunion in a passive aggressive manner, and of Brian winding up feeling that very same way that Mike felt (though as you mentioned, he wasn't moved enough to do something about it from a contractual standpoint). The eventual result, to me, just reeks of passive aggressive backstabbing and desperation.

I think you are reading way too much into it. Mike agreed to all of the things that happened during C50 and if he had considered it a `demotion` then it obviously wouldn`t have happened.

They all knew that there was a set end date though and that it was only intended to be a temporary thing. Bruce had mentioned it on the BBB board enough times after all. Therefore any extension to that would have been a surprise and going back to the status quo was the expected thing to do.

Now Brian may well have been happy to have played some more shows and to do one more album (although as he`s been recording his current album for over a year and it still seems a long way from finished, there have to be question marks over whether that would have happened). But would he have agreed to do another 75 shows in 2013 and 2014? Very unlikely. The reunion would have been over by now anyway therefore.

And the bottom line for me is that the idea that Mike Love should not have the right to say no to something he never agreed to in the first place is bizarre. I am not saying that it is right that Mike should go out calling himself `The Beach Boys` but only that he has the right to do so. That is what BRI agreed to and that is their responsibility. The idea that Mike Love should have to do whatever Brian and his management want (even though in another thread we have scores of people calling Brian`s management incompetent) and that he would agree to only play live when Brian fancies it is fanciful in the extreme.

Mike didn't/doesn't have to do anything that he doesn't want to do. He has the *right* to do whatever he wants (or can get away with due to circumstance). But just because he could, doesn't mean he should. I'm just saying that ideally, Mike could have found it in himself to have let the situation (ie. Brian's genuine budding enthusiasm to be a BB again) evolve the previously "set" plans for how C50 would continue.

Call me crazy, but I think there are a hell of a lot of people on planet Earth, who if in Mike's shoes, would have thought long and hard about it, and said to themselves that ceding some power/control in the name of rebuilding a fractured relationship with their cousin, as well as helping to repair the big picture disharmonious perception of the band, might just be worth doing, when the alternative (what actually went down) is considered. Even if that means (gasp) letting some uncertainty into the picture, and letting "sure things" like the country fair circuit be set aside. But I guess that's asking Mike not to be Mike. He was gonna do what he was gonna do.  

[Nicko1234]

My true hunch is: if Mike had in fact just went with the flow, and didn't feel the need to assert his needs/demands/dissatisfaction (in whatever ways that he did) with how C50 evolved, and let Brian call the shots and have the final word without an undercurrent of resentment, I really think that the reunion/good vibes surrounding the band (and within the band itself) would've lent itself to more natural organic collaborations (musically speaking, between all the bandmates including Mike/Brian) for subsequent followup material. But Mike wasn't willing to take this chance.

It would seem that Al/Dave went with the flow (in terms of agreeing to more of Brian's terms) to a degree that Mike simply would not/could not bring himself to, because Mike thinks he deserves a status that has somehow been "denied" to him by both Brian and the public at large (ie. BB fans who don't attend the M&B shows). That line of thinking, which IMO has colored many years of resultant actions, hasn't done him or the band itself any favors, that's for sure.

Do you mean in the same way that Al and David have written so many songs with Brian over the past year? Hmmm...

[Nicko1234]

Mike didn't/doesn't have to do anything that he doesn't want to do. He has the *right* to do whatever he wants (or can get away with due to circumstance). But just because he could, doesn't mean he should. I'm just saying that ideally, Mike could have found it in himself to have let the situation (ie. Brian's genuine budding enthusiasm to be a BB again) evolve the previously "set" plans for how C50 would continue.

Call me crazy, but I think there are a hell of a lot of people on planet Earth, who if in Mike's shoes, would have thought long and hard about it, and said to themselves that ceding some power/control in the name of rebuilding a fractured relationship with their cousin, as well as helping to repair the big picture disharmonious perception of the band, might just be worth doing, when the alternative (what actually went down) is considered. Even if that means (gasp) letting some uncertainty into the picture, and letting "sure things" like the country fair circuit be set aside. But I guess that's asking Mike not to be Mike. He was gonna do what he was gonna do.  

Who says that Mike didn`t think long and hard about it?

I`m not saying that I think that the way the C50 ended was right because it was obviously badly handled. Mike certainly should take his fair share of responsibility for that. But I wonder if Mike feels vindicated by what has happened since. If the reunion were to be successfully continued then it would probably have required Brian to carry on playing a stack of live concerts each year while also making a new album for the group. As Brian has spent over a year recording his current album (while playing relatively few shows), it is hard to see how that could have worked.

[Cam Mott]

As for Brian deserving the reigns of the Beach Boys back as a reward for the hard times he's been through, then perhaps he and his wife should never have voted to give Mike the Beach Boys name rights exclusively, or at least made sure it was only for a certain number of years.

Although it obviously (as proven by events by the people involved) is unrealistic, it would be nice to think that something like this falling into place could come about naturally, without it being a legal requirement of sorts (ie. a set "end date" for the M&B BB brand license) for Mike to allow Brian to be back in the drivers' seat.  

Maybe Mike just has had an inherent distrust of any/all people in Brian's circle (going all the way back to '65-ish, continuing to the Landy era, and to Joe Thomas, etc.) and feels that Brian's decisions are less about what Brian wants, and are more about what people in Brian's circle want. And I could certainly understand/empathize how Mike could feel that way.

But ultimately, despite this, I think that Mike's ego, and his clinging to the brand name for the M&B show as a way to "make up" for the myriad of ways which he feels he's been historically slighted in terms of public recognition, etc, is what drives him to put his needs ahead of the happy ending the band and brand name should've had.  

Another irony in this whole story, is that Mike himself probably felt as though he was being "fired", or at least "demoted", from his position of power in BB-land once the C50 tour got underway. And, in my opinion, his resultant backlash at this feeling and fear of losing control is what led to the dissolution of the reunion in a passive aggressive manner, and of Brian winding up feeling that very same way that Mike felt (though as you mentioned, he wasn't moved enough to do something about it from a contractual standpoint). The eventual result, to me, just reeks of passive aggressive backstabbing and desperation.

I think you are reading way too much into it. Mike agreed to all of the things that happened during C50 and if he had considered it a `demotion` then it obviously wouldn`t have happened.

They all knew that there was a set end date though and that it was only intended to be a temporary thing. Bruce had mentioned it on the BBB board enough times after all. Therefore any extension to that would have been a surprise and going back to the status quo was the expected thing to do.

Now Brian may well have been happy to have played some more shows and to do one more album (although as he`s been recording his current album for over a year and it still seems a long way from finished, there have to be question marks over whether that would have happened). But would he have agreed to do another 75 shows in 2013 and 2014? Very unlikely. The reunion would have been over by now anyway therefore.

And the bottom line for me is that the idea that Mike Love should not have the right to say no to something he never agreed to in the first place is bizarre. I am not saying that it is right that Mike should go out calling himself `The Beach Boys` but only that he has the right to do so. That is what BRI agreed to and that is their responsibility. The idea that Mike Love should have to do whatever Brian and his management want (even though in another thread we have scores of people calling Brian`s management incompetent) and that he would agree to only play live when Brian fancies it is fanciful in the extreme.

Mike didn't/doesn't have to do anything that he doesn't want to do. He has the *right* to do whatever he wants (or can get away with due to circumstance). But just because he could, doesn't mean he should. I'm just saying that ideally, Mike could have found it in himself to have let the situation (ie. Brian's genuine budding enthusiasm to be a BB again) evolve the previously "set" plans for how C50 would continue.

Call me crazy, but I think there are a hell of a lot of people on planet Earth, who if in Mike's shoes, would have thought long and hard about it, and said to themselves that ceding some power/control in the name of rebuilding a fractured relationship with their cousin, as well as helping to repair the big picture disharmonious perception of the band, might just be worth doing, when the alternative (what actually went down) is considered. Even if that means (gasp) letting some uncertainty into the picture, and letting "sure things" like the country fair circuit be set aside. But I guess that's asking Mike not to be Mike. He was gonna do what he was gonna do.  

Mike does and did kiss Brian's ass and lumped his complaints about not being like he was promised. So instead of Brian keeping his own promises and abiding by his own demands/agreement, Mike should lump bigger and pucker up harder?

[bgas]

As for Brian deserving the reigns of the Beach Boys back as a reward for the hard times he's been through, then perhaps he and his wife should never have voted to give Mike the Beach Boys name rights exclusively, or at least made sure it was only for a certain number of years.

Although it obviously (as proven by events by the people involved) is unrealistic, it would be nice to think that something like this falling into place could come about naturally, without it being a legal requirement of sorts (ie. a set "end date" for the M&B BB brand license) for Mike to allow Brian to be back in the drivers' seat.  

Maybe Mike just has had an inherent distrust of any/all people in Brian's circle (going all the way back to '65-ish, continuing to the Landy era, and to Joe Thomas, etc.) and feels that Brian's decisions are less about what Brian wants, and are more about what people in Brian's circle want. And I could certainly understand/empathize how Mike could feel that way.

But ultimately, despite this, I think that Mike's ego, and his clinging to the brand name for the M&B show as a way to "make up" for the myriad of ways which he feels he's been historically slighted in terms of public recognition, etc, is what drives him to put his needs ahead of the happy ending the band and brand name should've had.  

Another irony in this whole story, is that Mike himself probably felt as though he was being "fired", or at least "demoted", from his position of power in BB-land once the C50 tour got underway. And, in my opinion, his resultant backlash at this feeling and fear of losing control is what led to the dissolution of the reunion in a passive aggressive manner, and of Brian winding up feeling that very same way that Mike felt (though as you mentioned, he wasn't moved enough to do something about it from a contractual standpoint). The eventual result, to me, just reeks of passive aggressive backstabbing and desperation.

I think you are reading way too much into it. Mike agreed to all of the things that happened during C50 and if he had considered it a `demotion` then it obviously wouldn`t have happened.

They all knew that there was a set end date though and that it was only intended to be a temporary thing. Bruce had mentioned it on the BBB board enough times after all. Therefore any extension to that would have been a surprise and going back to the status quo was the expected thing to do.

Now Brian may well have been happy to have played some more shows and to do one more album (although as he`s been recording his current album for over a year and it still seems a long way from finished, there have to be question marks over whether that would have happened). But would he have agreed to do another 75 shows in 2013 and 2014? Very unlikely. The reunion would have been over by now anyway therefore.

And the bottom line for me is that the idea that Mike Love should not have the right to say no to something he never agreed to in the first place is bizarre. I am not saying that it is right that Mike should go out calling himself `The Beach Boys` but only that he has the right to do so. That is what BRI agreed to and that is their responsibility. The idea that Mike Love should have to do whatever Brian and his management want (even though in another thread we have scores of people calling Brian`s management incompetent) and that he would agree to only play live when Brian fancies it is fanciful in the extreme.

Mike didn't/doesn't have to do anything that he doesn't want to do. He has the *right* to do whatever he wants (or can get away with due to circumstance). But just because he could, doesn't mean he should. I'm just saying that ideally, Mike could have found it in himself to have let the situation (ie. Brian's genuine budding enthusiasm to be a BB again) evolve the previously "set" plans for how C50 would continue.

Call me crazy, but I think there are a hell of a lot of people on planet Earth, who if in Mike's shoes, would have thought long and hard about it, and said to themselves that ceding some power/control in the name of rebuilding a fractured relationship with their cousin, as well as helping to repair the big picture disharmonious perception of the band, might just be worth doing, when the alternative (what actually went down) is considered. Even if that means (gasp) letting some uncertainty into the picture, and letting "sure things" like the country fair circuit be set aside. But I guess that's asking Mike not to be Mike. He was gonna do what he was gonna do.  

Mike does and did kiss Brian's ass and lumped his complaints about not being like he was promised. So instead of Brian keeping his own promises and abiding by his own demands/agreement, Mike should lump bigger and pucker up harder?

Sure, why not?  Mike is the lesser  creative half of the writing partners. If he wants to work with Brian again, certainly he should lump bigger and pucker

[Cam Mott]

Sure, why not?  Mike is the lesser  creative half of the writing partners. If he wants to work with Brian again, certainly he should lump bigger and pucker

Maybe he will at some point. I'm sure that will happen long before Brian will ever be held responsible and accountable.

[Jonathan Blum]

At some point, an album becomes a Brian Wilson solo album featuring guest artists and isn't a Beach Boy album.

Wherever that point is, it's somewhere past "Pet Sounds".

The reason I want the reunion to continue, aside from sentimental the-gang's-all-getting-along reasons, is that the Beach Boys' voices are the perfect set of paints for Brian's pictures.  They do good work with Brian calling the shots.  If giving him control gets us "Radio"...  well, that's already the most satisfying Beach Boys album overall in about forty years for me.  I don't begrudge Mike, Al, or the others the chance to contribute songs, but I don't think an album of them singing Brian's material falls particularly short on the Beach-Boy-ness front!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[CenturyDeprived]

My true hunch is: if Mike had in fact just went with the flow, and didn't feel the need to assert his needs/demands/dissatisfaction (in whatever ways that he did) with how C50 evolved, and let Brian call the shots and have the final word without an undercurrent of resentment, I really think that the reunion/good vibes surrounding the band (and within the band itself) would've lent itself to more natural organic collaborations (musically speaking, between all the bandmates including Mike/Brian) for subsequent followup material. But Mike wasn't willing to take this chance.

It would seem that Al/Dave went with the flow (in terms of agreeing to more of Brian's terms) to a degree that Mike simply would not/could not bring himself to, because Mike thinks he deserves a status that has somehow been "denied" to him by both Brian and the public at large (ie. BB fans who don't attend the M&B shows). That line of thinking, which IMO has colored many years of resultant actions, hasn't done him or the band itself any favors, that's for sure.

Do you mean in the same way that Al and David have written so many songs with Brian over the past year? Hmmm...

I think that, had C50 not imploded, and Mike had gone with the flow, that there's a decent chance the music that Brian would be creating under the banner of "Beach Boys" would eventually naturally at some point evolve to having some creative co-writing input from other BB members. IMO it's not relevant to compare this scenario to what BW is working on now, which is presumably intended to be released, and from its inception is being thought of as BW solo material with some Al/Dave/ guest appearances.

It's tough to find a previous case precedent in BB history that would back up my assumption (since times are so different today without Carl's influence, etc, and 2012's lineup was a unique set of circumstances in the band's history)... That said, I still contend that if the lineup that was established became stable for a couple years (with genuine goodwill, lack of resentment feelings by Mike, and legit burying of hatchets), that some natural collaboration would at some point happen. It seems obvious to me. It just had to be achieved with baby steps, not by demands.

Of all BBs, BW would likely still be the primary contributer, but other members would probably get some contributions in. The quantity of those potential contributions is certainly debatable, but I feel confident that Mike would have had some chances that now probably won't ever happen. IMHO, Mike's demands were unreasonable, fueled by ego, and incompatible with the natural order of how things should've wound up with this band.  

[startBBtoday]

Why do we insist on treating Brian and Mike like they're 17 year olds, who will just wind up in the same room writing songs together, rather than 71- and 73-year old men with lives, families and less energy and creative juice than they had 50 years ago?

I think we're extremely lucky to be getting anything out of Brian or The Beach Boys at this point. Brian producing a song with the quality of Pacific Coast Highway at nearly 70 years old is unprecedented.

[Nicko1234]

I think that, had C50 not imploded, and Mike had gone with the flow, that there's a decent chance the music that Brian would be creating under the banner of "Beach Boys" would eventually naturally at some point evolve to having some creative co-writing input from other BB members. IMO it's not relevant to compare this scenario to what BW is working on now, which is presumably intended to be released, and from its inception is being thought of as BW solo material with some Al/Dave/ guest appearances.

Yeah, Mike would have gotten 2 or 3 co-writes as he did on Radio probably. But it wouldn`t have been him and Brian in the same room as it was in the olden days because that is never going to happen (Mike was naive if he ever thought it would).

And anyway, Brian has now had over a year to complete an album and it still seems unfinished. So even if the C50 had continued beyond September, it was bound to end soon afterwards anyway. The touring and recording compromises needed on both sides could never have been completed.

It should have ended in a much smoother and more tactful way but people had the reunion they never expected and it was as good as it could realistically have been. No point in wondering why it couldn`t last forever as it was never intended to and never feasibly could have. 

[Mikie]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, eh?  Coulda, woulda, shoulda.  The brief synopsis of the Beach Boys' career.

[CenturyDeprived]

Mike didn't/doesn't have to do anything that he doesn't want to do. He has the *right* to do whatever he wants (or can get away with due to circumstance). But just because he could, doesn't mean he should. I'm just saying that ideally, Mike could have found it in himself to have let the situation (ie. Brian's genuine budding enthusiasm to be a BB again) evolve the previously "set" plans for how C50 would continue.

Call me crazy, but I think there are a hell of a lot of people on planet Earth, who if in Mike's shoes, would have thought long and hard about it, and said to themselves that ceding some power/control in the name of rebuilding a fractured relationship with their cousin, as well as helping to repair the big picture disharmonious perception of the band, might just be worth doing, when the alternative (what actually went down) is considered. Even if that means (gasp) letting some uncertainty into the picture, and letting "sure things" like the country fair circuit be set aside. But I guess that's asking Mike not to be Mike. He was gonna do what he was gonna do.  

Who says that Mike didn`t think long and hard about it?

I`m not saying that I think that the way the C50 ended was right because it was obviously badly handled. Mike certainly should take his fair share of responsibility for that. But I wonder if Mike feels vindicated by what has happened since. If the reunion were to be successfully continued then it would probably have required Brian to carry on playing a stack of live concerts each year while also making a new album for the group. As Brian has spent over a year recording his current album (while playing relatively few shows), it is hard to see how that could have worked.

IMO, a scenario could have happened where the band actually took a break from the road for a time (meaning no version of the BBs touring), and then came back with new product, united together again, booking shows and continuing the healing process. I'd like to think that could have happened. If that possible scenario was achievable, it would've simply meant Mike would've had to accept some change and uncertainty.  

And regarding the speed (or lack thereof) of Brian's 2013-2014 studio output: Let's also keep in mind that, despite a positive public face, Brian may have gotten depressed and truly bummed out over the way his budding enthusiasm for being a BB again was quashed by how things went down, and that could possibly effect his current output, creative process, and pace at which music is written/completed.

I'd think if the good C50 vibes had continued, he'd have found himself in a better personal space, and I can only see that helping the creative process. Particularly these days, I think it's the responsibility of people around Brian (bandmates and family members) to make things easier for him to function/create on his terms, even if that means sacrificing more than they bargained for. Not just for the benefit of musical output, but because maybe he simply deserves it at this point as a human being, and it's simply the right thing to do.  

[Nicko1234]

IMO, a scenario could have happened where the band actually took a break from the road for a time (meaning no version of the BBs touring), and then came back with new product, united together again, booking shows and continuing the healing process. I'd like to think that could have happened. If that possible scenario was achievable, it would've simply meant Mike would've had to accept some change and uncertainty.  

And regarding the speed (or lack thereof) of Brian's 2013-2014 studio output: Let's also keep in mind that, despite a positive public face, Brian may have gotten depressed and truly bummed out over the way his budding enthusiasm for being a BB again was quashed by how things went down, and that could possibly effect his current output, creative process, and pace at which music is written/completed.

I'd think if the good C50 vibes had continued, he'd have found himself in a better personal space, and I can only see that helping the creative process. Particularly these days, I think it's the responsibility of people around Brian (bandmates and family members) to make things easier for him to function/create on his terms, even if that means sacrificing more than they bargained for. Not just for the benefit of musical output, but because maybe he simply deserves it at this point as a human being, and it's simply the right thing to do.  

        

Congratulations sir. Yes, any delays in Brian recording a new solo album now are entirely down to big, bad Mike Love. I love it.

And you are absolutely right that everybody around Brian should act on his terms at all times and should not consider their own thoughts, feelings or wishes. That`s certainly how I behave towards my cousins anyway... 

[CenturyDeprived]

IMO, a scenario could have happened where the band actually took a break from the road for a time (meaning no version of the BBs touring), and then came back with new product, united together again, booking shows and continuing the healing process. I'd like to think that could have happened. If that possible scenario was achievable, it would've simply meant Mike would've had to accept some change and uncertainty.  

And regarding the speed (or lack thereof) of Brian's 2013-2014 studio output: Let's also keep in mind that, despite a positive public face, Brian may have gotten depressed and truly bummed out over the way his budding enthusiasm for being a BB again was quashed by how things went down, and that could possibly effect his current output, creative process, and pace at which music is written/completed.

I'd think if the good C50 vibes had continued, he'd have found himself in a better personal space, and I can only see that helping the creative process. Particularly these days, I think it's the responsibility of people around Brian (bandmates and family members) to make things easier for him to function/create on his terms, even if that means sacrificing more than they bargained for. Not just for the benefit of musical output, but because maybe he simply deserves it at this point as a human being, and it's simply the right thing to do.  

         

Congratulations sir. Yes, any delays in Brian recording a new solo album now are entirely down to big, bad Mike Love. I love it.

And you are absolutely right that everybody around Brian should act on his terms at all times and should not consider their own thoughts, feelings or wishes. That`s certainly how I behave towards my cousins anyway...  

Please do not twist my words. I'm saying that any musician getting bummed out and/or possibly depressed is a potential factor to consider in how their creative process/ability to write is effected. I speak from personal experience, so I can tell you firsthand that it's not an absurd concept; please check your LOLs and sarcasm at the door. Whether that's truly a piece of THIS particular puzzle is not something that you and I will ever really, truly know, but I don't think it's absurd to speculate that it could be *a* factor.
 
And I do not think that it's a black and white situation where everybody in the BBs should just Brian's sheep, always adhering to his every whim. It's shades of grey, man. Obviously, where those compromises start and end simply cannot be reconciled between those guys, which sucks, and is deeply unfortunate in a big-picture type of way. But ultimately what bugs me is that, IMHO, I don't think that Brian is always treated by his cousin in a way that prioritizes a true empathy/acknowledgement of Brian's emotional history/sensitivity over Mike's own egotistical whims.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm not sure the reunion tour ever played in theaters much larger than either Brian as a solo or the Mike-only Beach Boys.

Really? Cause I saw it at Cincy's Riverbend. Capacity 20,500 and pretty much full.

Wembley Arena London, 14,000 and SRO. Hollywood Bowl was sold out too, as I recall.

Why do people make such easily disprovable (or checkable) statements ?

[Andrew G. Doe]

And regarding the speed (or lack thereof) of Brian's 2013-2014 studio output: Let's also keep in mind that, despite a positive public face, Brian may have gotten depressed and truly bummed out over the way his budding enthusiasm for being a BB again was quashed by how things went down, and that could possibly effect his current output, creative process, and pace at which music is written/completed.

So, nothing to do with Jeff Beck throwing cold water on the whole thing in public interviews, then ? Additionally, I seriously doubt that Brian has given a millisecond's thought to how C50 ended since the day his response to Mike's letter was published in the LA Times last October.

This is just a "what-if ?" scenario of course, but I would pay top coin to see the reaction of the Brianistas if it was unequivocally revealed that in fact it was Brian* who said "OK, I'll do 23 more shows but that's it".

The whole C50/Smile Sessions/new album thing (for they are all connected) is very likely way more complex that we can possibly imagine.


[* - generic term for Brian's management team]

[CenturyDeprived]

And regarding the speed (or lack thereof) of Brian's 2013-2014 studio output: Let's also keep in mind that, despite a positive public face, Brian may have gotten depressed and truly bummed out over the way his budding enthusiasm for being a BB again was quashed by how things went down, and that could possibly effect his current output, creative process, and pace at which music is written/completed.

So, nothing to do with Jeff Beck throwing cold water on the whole thing in public interviews, then ? Additionally, I seriously doubt that Brian has given a millisecond's thought to how C50 ended since the day his response to Mike's letter was published in the LA Times last October.

This is just a "what-if ?" scenario of course, but I would pay top coin to see the reaction of the Brianistas if it was unequivocally revealed that in fact it was Brian* who said "OK, I'll do 23 more shows but that's it".

The whole C50/Smile Sessions/new album thing (for they are all connected) is very likely way more complex that we can possibly imagine.


[* - generic term for Brian's management team]

I'd suspect that the lack of a new album is due to a number of factors (and I never thought the C50 implosion was a sole factor, but I hypothesize that it may simply be a factor - relatively speaking - compared to the alternate scenario of whatever creative burst/roll Brian might have had for a TWGMTR followup BB album if C50 had been realized with genuinely harmonious relationships with all his bandmates).

And absolutely, per the Jeff Beck interview, it's certainly possible that he and Brian, and the circumstances of their collaboration may just not be clicking in the studio as hoped. I'd say for Brian these days (and for a long time now), that every time there's a new element/new wrinkle in terms of personalities/bandmates/egos/producers that he has to contend with, it is another challenge/hurdle in getting acclimated to a situation where he can create, and a product can be finished. Not to mention writers' block, which can be induced by a multitude of factors, and which Brian has certainly been known to contend with off-and-on for years now.

[Jonathan Blum]

Please do not twist my words. I'm saying that any musician getting bummed out and/or possibly depressed is a potential factor to consider in how their creative process/ability to write is effected. I speak from personal experience, so I can tell you firsthand that it's not an absurd concept; please check your LOLs and sarcasm at the door. Whether that's truly a piece of THIS particular puzzle is not something that you and I will ever really, truly know, but I don't think it's absurd to speculate that it could be *a* factor.

For what it's worth, the reports last year all seemed to indicate that Brian's creative process had been energized by the whole thing, even after the anniversary project ended -- that's when we got all those session photos with Al, then David, then Jeff, then Blondie.  Al in particular said that it seemed like the anniversary gathering had started Brian writing in a way he hadn't written for years.

If anything's gone off the boil, it's only been since last October or so, after the tour with the whole gang, more than a year after the C50 ending debacle.  So, probably not an obvious cause.  But either way, we know sessions of some sort have still been continuing, according to Matt Jardine...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Cam Mott]

Brian also could have not set people up to then f*** them over and then make out it was their fault. Just an idea but then Brian would be responsible and accountable for his own actions so let's just blame Obamacare.

[Sheriff John Stone]

This is just a "what-if ?" scenario of course, but I would pay top coin to see the reaction of the Brianistas if it was unequivocally revealed that in fact it was Brian* who said "OK, I'll do 23 more shows but that's it".

But that's the thing, and many posters here seem to (conveniently?) forget - or ignore it. Mike said in an interview, "Brian said, 'No more dates for us. Please'."

There's only two ways to view that quote. Either Mike was lying, which wouldn't be the first time a Beach Boy told a non-truth in an interview; they're notorious for it. Or, Mike was telling the truth. Mike IS one of the more honest interviewees of the group. Actually, he has been criticized on this board for being too honest, but that's usually when it exposes the truth about Brian Wilson.

People continue to hammer away at Mike Love for every conceivable thing that went/could've gone wrong with the reunion. Yet, on the other hand, they wanted it to continue. It doesn't make sense. Hypocrisy? If everything they (the posters) write about Mike Love regarding the C50 reunion is true, why would they ever - EVER! - want Brian Wilson to continue to be exposed to it, or him (Mike). Do they think Mike is gonna change? You would think posters would be saying, "Brian, move on, leave Mike Love behind. Go back to YOUR group. You don't need that sh--. Why do you want to deal with him or that mess..." 

[CenturyDeprived]

Please do not twist my words. I'm saying that any musician getting bummed out and/or possibly depressed is a potential factor to consider in how their creative process/ability to write is effected. I speak from personal experience, so I can tell you firsthand that it's not an absurd concept; please check your LOLs and sarcasm at the door. Whether that's truly a piece of THIS particular puzzle is not something that you and I will ever really, truly know, but I don't think it's absurd to speculate that it could be *a* factor.

For what it's worth, the reports last year all seemed to indicate that Brian's creative process had been energized by the whole thing, even after the anniversary project ended -- that's when we got all those session photos with Al, then David, then Jeff, then Blondie.  Al in particular said that it seemed like the anniversary gathering had started Brian writing in a way he hadn't written for years.

If anything's gone off the boil, it's only been since last October or so, after the tour with the whole gang, more than a year after the C50 ending debacle.  So, probably not an obvious cause.  But either way, we know sessions of some sort have still been continuing, according to Matt Jardine...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I'd sure *like* to think that Brian stopped being bummed out as soon as that LA Times article was written, and that he completely moved on emotionally from the pains he experienced with the C50 situation (without so much as a hint of effect on him personally or creatively) without looking back, aided by his current-day support system. Brian's decades-long history of bum trips effecting his musical output make me have doubts of this scenario being fully accurate, though.

But maybe that is in fact the case, although I'm skeptical in believing a bunch of smiling BW studio pics to be the final word what the real story is. Not that I claim to know beyond speculation. I'd think that regardless of Brian's actual state of mind, that his people would want to publicly put on the best possible face of resilience that they could.

Either way, it doesn't compute to me that experiencing a bitter C50 public falling out would actually help energize BW for followup work, creatively speaking.  I have no doubt that the reunion itself helped kickstart BW creatively; it's the subsequent aftermath that's in question here. Best case scenario is that despite feeling bummed out/resentful enough to write an LA Times article, that his quashed hopes for a harmonious final chapter to his band simply rolled off him and became a complete, 100% non-issue going forward. I'd venture to guess that the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[KittyKat]

I'm not sure the reunion tour ever played in theaters much larger than either Brian as a solo or the Mike-only Beach Boys.

Really? Cause I saw it at Cincy's Riverbend. Capacity 20,500 and pretty much full.

Wembley Arena London, 14,000 and SRO. Hollywood Bowl was sold out too, as I recall.

Why do people make such easily disprovable (or checkable) statements ?

Well, then, great AGD, why don't you give us a list of all the venue capacities? Because they played quite a few venues that were less than 10,000, and music festivals where a lot of other acts were on the bills cannot be counted, IMO. Do you personally truly think the reunited Beach Boys could have played to 15,000-20,000 sports arenas on yearly tours and sold them out every time? Because I don't.

You also have to add in the fact that bands such as the Eagles charge over $150 ticket prices in order to have their tours make money, more like around $250 tickets for the bottom half of the big sports areans. What was the average price of the Beach Boys reunion tour? I bet less than $100 average ticket price. If they charged enough to make it worth their while to mount an expensive tour of sports arenas with a band of over 12 members, there's no way in hell they would sell out.  There are some people who would pipe up that they paid hundreds of dollars for their reunion VIP ticket packages of the first few rows, but the average fan? Nope. The average pop/rock fans will buy $200 seats to the Eagles for themselves, their spouses, their kids, and grandma, but not the Beach Boys. Maybe $75 seats or $100 seats, but not enough to pay for that big ass reunion band. The Beach Boys are not in the league of the Eagles or Springsteen or Bon Jovi, no matter who is in the band.

[Jonathan Blum]

Brian also could have not set people up to then f*** them over and then make out it was their fault. Just an idea but then Brian would be responsible and accountable for his own actions so let's just blame Obamacare.

Who the hell are we to "hold people accountable for their actions"?  As my mom once put it, we're not their Judge Judy and executioner.

Though I am curious how people manage to make Brian responsible for *Al and Dave* not touring with Mike and Bruce.  For me, a show with the four of them would be a step up from the current status quo in Mike's group.  It would be entirely within Mike's powers, as head of the licensed touring group, to make them the same sort of offers which Brian did last year.  But it's been a year and a half since the end of the anniversary, and aside from wishful thinking after last week's benefit there's been no sign of this...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Jonathan Blum]

I'd sure *like* to think that Brian stopped being bummed out as soon as that LA Times article was written, and that he completely moved on emotionally from the pains he experienced with the C50 situation (without so much as a hint of effect on him personally or creatively) without looking back, aided by his current-day support system. Brian's decades-long history of bum trips effecting his musical output make me have doubts of this scenario being fully accurate, though.

Yes, but when Brian was on his downward spirals, he did less in the studio.  Here after C50, for an extended period of time, he did more.

The idea that "Radio" and the reunion tour going on fired up Brian's desire to record more music seems entirely believable to me.  So does the fact that, given that Brian didn't go into a reclusive withdrawal after the final debacle, but instead went into the studio with Al and Dave, indicates that his reaction may have been more along the lines of "well I'm doing what *I* want, even if you don't wanna play".

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Doo Dah]

All of this conjecture about three albums worth of material is just that, until the contracts are signed. Perhaps there's enough in the can for an all instrumental opus with Jeff Beck, perhaps not. Ditto on Life Suite, and so on. But none of it is going to happen without a clearly detailed plan of attack, ie: major label backing.

I'd love to hear everything right now, but they're obviously sitting on their cards until release of Love and Mercy. In the meanwhile, it's a little of this and a little of that in the studio (along with a well-timed selfie around the microphone to peak some interest).

Legacy artists move like legacy cars. Slow and steady out of the parking lot.