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Author Topic: Why the Mike/Bruce Combo?  (Read 34511 times)
Ron
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« Reply #225 on: March 06, 2014, 08:17:56 AM »



No amount of money can get Paul & Ringo together, they just make appearances for free, for 10 minutes, about once a decade so nobody thinks they're assholes.



John Lennon and George Harrison being dead might have a little bit of bearing on why Paul and Ringo don't tour together.

In 1979 were they touring?  They can't stand each other, NO AMOUNT OF MONEY will get them to work with each other, outside of a 1 off track every 10 years. 

ROCK STARS can't keep it together forever, we're fortunate we got what we got out of the Brian/Mike pairing. 

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« Reply #226 on: March 06, 2014, 08:50:03 AM »



No amount of money can get Paul & Ringo together, they just make appearances for free, for 10 minutes, about once a decade so nobody thinks they're assholes.



John Lennon and George Harrison being dead might have a little bit of bearing on why Paul and Ringo don't tour together.

In 1979 were they touring?  They can't stand each other, NO AMOUNT OF MONEY will get them to work with each other, outside of a 1 off track every 10 years. 

ROCK STARS can't keep it together forever, we're fortunate we got what we got out of the Brian/Mike pairing. 



That's funny because Lennon mentioned in a sworn deposition back in 1980 that the Beatles were set to reunite for the finale to THE LONG AND WINDING ROAD.  Mark David Chapman pumping lead into John's back obviously changed those plans.
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« Reply #227 on: March 06, 2014, 08:57:26 AM »

Don't get your panties in a twist, it still doesn't explain why Ringo and Paul are rarely in the same room.


Here, I have an explanation, though.

ROCK STARS DONT GET ALONG FOR FOREVER

Ringo & Paul don't work together, no matter how much money you throw at them. 

They do every 10 years or so, very briefly (for a couple hours at most) so that people don't think they're assholes.

Mike & Brian work together much more than that. 

Notice that even though you tried to get my off-topic post even more off-topic by talking about dead people, I have safely steered it back in it's original off-track direction. 
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« Reply #228 on: March 06, 2014, 09:01:49 AM »

They get together more than once every ten years. They played twice in the last few months. Prior to that, they did a David Lynch show in Carnegie Hall and Paul was a surprise guest at the All Starrs tour stop on Ringo's 70th birthday. You are correct, they won't be touring together, but not because "they hate each other."

Carry on.
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« Reply #229 on: March 06, 2014, 09:12:47 AM »

It's easy to see things from both sides but when looking at the situation from a realistic standpoint, I have to side with Mike.

Before you ask if I am pro Brian or pro Mike... I'm pro Carl.  angel

I do feel like you can look at Mike and Bruce's touring schedule as an addiction. One that many musicians have. Considering the addictions that other band members have had, I'll take this one with open arms. At least Mike's addiction is helping financially support Carl's family and the other members of BRI.

Do I think Mike enjoys having total control over the touring Beach Boys? Absolutely. He is the boss, he chooses the set list, he is the center of attention singing the hit songs he helped write and there is zero drama within his touring band (I assume). Again, it's a luxury that he is willing to pay for, on an annual basis to BRI. Most importantly, whether you like this situation or not, this is all approved by Brian, Al and Carl's estate.

I definitely would prefer to see all 5 surviving members of The Beach Boys touring under the name but with present day Brian, it just isn't realistic. I would bet money Mike would be open to having Brian tour with him if there wasn't that attachment of Brian's entourage and everything that comes with it. With Brian comes Melinda, Joe Thomas, a 10 piece band, his own bus, etc... Not only is all of that a HUGE added expense, it's also a lot of drama from people outside the band (being Brian's people) trying to have their say in how things should happen.

1. I don't know about Al and David, but I highly doubt Brian would tour and perform the number of shows that would be needed to bring in the money he is making now from Mike & Bruce. There would be a much bigger cost to tour with Brian, Al, David, Brian's entourage and band. You have to put all of them in hotel rooms, feed them and travel costs. In order for that to make money, you need to perform more shows to a larger audience. They had that with the 50th celebration but year after year, the demand would lessen and the venues wouldn't be as packed as they once were.

2. I would love a set list full of deep catalog songs but regardless of who's in the band, it's going to be a set of mostly hits. Brian's band is very good and needed when performing albums in full like Pet Sounds or SMiLE. Would Brian and Mike need a backing band of 15 people on stage to perform I Get Around and Little Deuce Coupe? Last time I checked, you don't need 6 guitarists and 3 keyboard players to play 409. Having a band that large would be spending money for an unneeded reason. I honestly think they would have to even drop a few people from the C50 backing band if they continued to tour. That means firing loyal band mates from Mike and Brian's bands. I'm sure neither of them would enjoy that.

3. All of that is IF Brian wanted to be a permanent member of The Beach Boys. I'm sure he did at one point of the 50th celebration. From everything I've read about Brian, he is very spur of the moment. He could be all about continuing with The Beach Boys one day and not care about it the next. If Brian did want to just play those few extra shows that they were offered, I do think Mike should have taken the high road and postpone a few Mike & Bruce shows to do them. But if Brian was wanting to continue touring for an undetermined amount of time, I can understand Mike being a bit weary. What would happen if Mike said, "Hell yeah! Let's keep it going!" They start booking more shows, getting more offers, and then a month into it Brian decides it's too much and he wants out. Then what? You have to cancel the rest of the tour? Do Al and David stay? Do you continue with the shows but offer refunds to ticket buyers that expected to see Brian?

4. I do hope to one day see the five of them perform together again. For that to happen, they are going to have to sit down and agree upon a more realistic approach. Something like every year they play a 4th of July show and a New Year's Eve show together. Maybe they play a 2 or 3 show run at the Hollywood Bowl every year at summer's end and 2 or 3 run of shows at RAH every December. Something along those lines.

I can't believe the "Mike destroyed SMiLE" made it into this thread... well, yes I can. Why wouldn't it? I've personally never bought into this. Mike sabotaged SMiLE into never being completed so that Smiley Smile could be released in it's place. Really? Mike's contribution to Smiley Smile was She's Going Bald. Think about that. Seriously. The man who gauges whether a song is good by it's chart performance contributed She's Going Bald on the album. That in itself says to me that Mike was willing to experiment in the studio and try going "outside the formula".

Mike has stated that he liked a lot of the music but didn't like some of the lyrics. Considering Mike had been the main lyricist in the band up until Pet Sounds, that's understandable. They are very different lyrics and even though I personally like them, a lot of the lyrics are on the pretentious side. They are also a complete 180 to what they were writing a year or two prior. Mike may not of liked it but he did record his vocals singing the lyrics he didn't like. He did a damn fine job too. Dennis liked SMiLE and Carl believed in it enough to finish and release the songs Surf's Up, Our Prayer and Cabinessence on later albums. I don't recall reading that Mike threw a fit about any of those inclusions. Plus didn't Bruce mention the idea of recording Do You Like Worms for the LA Light album? That's all on top of using Heroes and Villains, Wonderful, Vegetables and Wind Chimes on Smiley Smile.

Brian was also at the absolute peak of his game with Good Vibrations. Brian was in complete control in the studio and what he said, goes. It was that simple. Brian may have been hurt by Mike not being 100% behind everything that was going on. If that in fact was what caused SMiLE to collapse, then it's still Brian's fault for letting one person's opinion have that big of an affect on him. If Brian was ever in a position to tell Mike, "this is the direction we're going and this is our album whether you like it or not", that was the time. Brian was in control. Brian was also hanging around a bad crowd and he tried to make a complete album in the cut and paste form (like he did with Good Vibrations) while taking drugs. It didn't work. Late in the game, Brian realized it wasn't going to happen and scrapped the project. It sucks but it happened. That's what I believe anyway. I will admit that Brian giving up on it isn't as cool of a story as Mike trying to sabotage it while Brian was going insane from drugs, etc.

That's all I have for now.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 09:15:11 AM by lee » Logged
Dancing Bear
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« Reply #230 on: March 06, 2014, 09:39:39 AM »

Why would Mike want to return to a situation where he has to permanently walk over eggshells around Brian?
Last time Mike made an album with Brian, it went to #3. Last time he made an album without Brian, he couldn't even find anyone who wanted to release it. That should say enough.

I agree that it must be very difficult to work with Brian. But it's not that hard to see why Mike would still be temped to try again anyway.

I'm not trying to prove that Mike's right, just trying to explore how he feels.

I don't think they hate each other. I bet they had some fun touring together. But I think Mike doesn't want permanet exposition to Brian's circus of managers and friends. He has his own with chreerleaders and friends.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #231 on: March 06, 2014, 10:12:56 AM »

Lee makes a lot of sense to me. I'd love to know the behind the scenes but I bet a donut it is going to be something sort of dull and practical and non-dramatic.
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« Reply #232 on: March 06, 2014, 10:56:16 AM »

We can debate till the cows come home (and we have) whether or not Mike was "justified" in imploding C50, or we can nitpick the specifics on his perception of a "set end date", etc. etc. etc.

Bottom line to me is that, once Brian wanted things to continue, if Mike really truly wanted to make it work, it could have happened somehow. Despite difficulties, they could have been overcome. If Mike had the motivation and incentive to make it happen, it would've happened. Clearly, factors like he group harmony/legacy/the idea that Brian may be owed the right to have things his way, were not going to sway him to feel that way. Maybe it's human nature, maybe it's just about his priorities being in a place that doesn't jive with me.

I''ll just say that hypothetically, if a super rich billionaire, say Bill Gates, happened to be a super huge BB fan, and he personally privately told Mike that he'd pay Mike some giant sum of money for him to not implode C50 and to keep things going, I think Mike would have sucked it up, stayed and let the reunion continue.

Or, if Paul and Ringo told Mike that if the reunion continued, that they'd reform as "The Beatles" and tour with The BBs (and even open for The BBs), and that at every show, Paul would publicly thank Mike for being the inspiration for Back in the USSR... then I also think Mike would have sucked it up, stayed and let the reunion continue.

My point being, if his motivation was right, he could have found it in his heart to have broken the "set end date" and found *some* way to make things work.  The "small" and "insignificant" actual incentives weren't enough, but I think these hypothetical incentives would have been.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 11:07:30 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #233 on: March 06, 2014, 11:14:48 AM »

My point being, if his motivation was right, he could have found it in his heart to have broken the "set end date" and found *some* way to make things work.

Sure. Let's hope also that Jeff Beck has the right motivation so that he and Brian can finish those damn studio tracks.
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« Reply #234 on: March 06, 2014, 11:19:06 AM »

Bottom line to me is that, once Brian wanted things to continue, if Mike really truly wanted to make it work, it could have happened somehow.

That is the bottom line.  And he didn't want to make it work, for whatever reason(s).  I don't know the reason.  Cam doesn't know the reason.  You don't know the reason.  In fact, none of us here on this message board knows the reason (well, except maybe for AGD, and he has his reason for not sayin').  End of story. 

 
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« Reply #235 on: March 06, 2014, 12:37:07 PM »

I''ll just say that hypothetically, if a super rich billionaire, say Bill Gates, happened to be a super huge BB fan, and he personally privately told Mike that he'd pay Mike some giant sum of money for him to not implode C50 and to keep things going, I think Mike would have sucked it up, stayed and let the reunion continue.

Or, if Paul and Ringo told Mike that if the reunion continued, that they'd reform as "The Beatles" and tour with The BBs (and even open for The BBs), and that at every show, Paul would publicly thank Mike for being the inspiration for Back in the USSR... then I also think Mike would have sucked it up, stayed and let the reunion continue.

My point being, if his motivation was right, he could have found it in his heart to have broken the "set end date" and found *some* way to make things work.  The "small" and "insignificant" actual incentives weren't enough, but I think these hypothetical incentives would have been.

Bingo. You got it. We agree. The motivation and incentives in this instance - continuing to tour with the great Brian Wilson and having already written songs given to him to supply lyrics after the fact - are NOT motivating factors for Mike Love. They might've been at one time. But that time has come and gone. The Brian Wilson who once had a spell over Mike and the group and had the POWER to control the group, IN MIKE'S VIEW, is no longer there. Not to mention that Mike himself has changed...
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« Reply #236 on: March 06, 2014, 12:56:59 PM »

Bottom line to me is that, once Brian wanted things to continue, if Mike really truly wanted to make it work, it could have happened somehow.

That is the bottom line.  And he didn't want to make it work, for whatever reason(s).  I don't know the reason.  Cam doesn't know the reason.  You don't know the reason.  In fact, none of us here on this message board knows the reason (well, except maybe for AGD, and he has his reason for not sayin').  End of story. 

 

You are absolutely right.
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« Reply #237 on: March 06, 2014, 02:15:57 PM »

the past and current evidence suggests that only one person has been prepared to work extensively with Brian more than once - Joe Thomas
And Eugene Landy.  Grin

I was talking purely in a musical sense.
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« Reply #238 on: March 06, 2014, 02:19:43 PM »

My point being, if his motivation was right, he could have found it in his heart to have broken the "set end date" and found *some* way to make things work.

Sure. Let's hope also that Jeff Beck has the right motivation so that he and Brian can finish those damn studio tracks.

Not gonna happen, is my strong impression.
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« Reply #239 on: March 06, 2014, 02:58:14 PM »



No amount of money can get Paul & Ringo together, they just make appearances for free, for 10 minutes, about once a decade so nobody thinks they're assholes.



John Lennon and George Harrison being dead might have a little bit of bearing on why Paul and Ringo don't tour together.

 

In 1979 were they touring?  They can't stand each other, NO AMOUNT OF MONEY will get them to work with each other, outside of a 1 off track every 10 years.  

ROCK STARS can't keep it together forever, we're fortunate we got what we got out of the Brian/Mike pairing.  



 There was an undeniable tension between George and Paul during segments of the '95 Anthology film, but Ringo and Paul seem to get along reasonably well.
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« Reply #240 on: March 06, 2014, 03:45:13 PM »

Why would Mike want to return to a situation where he has to permanently walk over eggshells around Brian?

Because Brian just handed them an acclaimed album which put them back on the charts for the first time since the days of Kokomo, and a tour which made them a metric buttload of money to boot?

Totally aside from sentimental hey-let's-all-stay-together-we're-family reasons, there's a strong practical reason to let Brian do things his way:  it's worked.

Cheers,
Jon Blum
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« Reply #241 on: March 06, 2014, 04:04:42 PM »



No amount of money can get Paul & Ringo together, they just make appearances for free, for 10 minutes, about once a decade so nobody thinks they're assholes.



John Lennon and George Harrison being dead might have a little bit of bearing on why Paul and Ringo don't tour together.

 

In 1979 were they touring?  They can't stand each other, NO AMOUNT OF MONEY will get them to work with each other, outside of a 1 off track every 10 years.  

ROCK STARS can't keep it together forever, we're fortunate we got what we got out of the Brian/Mike pairing.  



 There was an undeniable tension between George and Paul during segments of the '95 Anthology film, but Ringo and Paul seem to get along reasonably well.

This is true, and John and George were "kinda" on the outs when Lennon was murdered.
Ringo and Paul get along fine and Ron....all you have to do is cruise YouTube for a while and you'll see that Paul and Ringo are together a lot. Whether it's showing up to promote Beatles Rock Band, or attend Love shows in Vegas, Larry King interview, the above mentioned shows, etc. Paul also pops up on Ringo's studio albums pretty regularly. The only reason these recent appearances made a lot of noise was because it was the 50th anniversary in America and the average music fan doesn't follow their solo careers. Hardcore Beatles fans were saying "Yeah, what else is new?" during all this 50th anniversary hoopla while the rest of the nation swooned.
It seems like no Beatle has ever had any real problems with Ringo (and George slept with Ringo's ex-wife and he and Ringo STILL got along!).
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« Reply #242 on: March 06, 2014, 04:27:06 PM »

Why would Mike want to return to a situation where he has to permanently walk over eggshells around Brian?

Because Brian just handed them an acclaimed album which put them back on the charts for the first time since the days of Kokomo, and a tour which made them a metric buttload of money to boot?

Totally aside from sentimental hey-let's-all-stay-together-we're-family reasons, there's a strong practical reason to let Brian do things his way:  it's worked.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Mike (and Bruce) make that same buttload from what WAS on the charts, and with a lot less stress than any further C50 tour can provide.

I find it incredible that 18 months after the fact there are some here that still can't move on. Many bands would be happy to make a career stretch to 20 years and a handful of albums. The Beach Boys have given over 50 years, many, many albums and sacrificed two founding members. While enjoying many of the benefits,some members personal lives and health have suffered due, in part I'm sure, to the nature of the industry.

They owe me nothing yet  I still have the opportunity should I want to, to see individual members solo or in pairings continue to play the music live and that has been the case for the last 15 years, not to mention their new solo albums.

I wonder sometimes if there are those here who will only be happy if a band member drops dead onstage providing them with the music and experience they feel they are entitled to.


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« Reply #243 on: March 06, 2014, 06:12:02 PM »

Why would Mike want to return to a situation where he has to permanently walk over eggshells around Brian?

Because Brian just handed them an acclaimed album which put them back on the charts for the first time since the days of Kokomo, and a tour which made them a metric buttload of money to boot?

Totally aside from sentimental hey-let's-all-stay-together-we're-family reasons, there's a strong practical reason to let Brian do things his way:  it's worked.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Mike (and Bruce) make that same buttload from what WAS on the charts, and with a lot less stress than any further C50 tour can provide.

I find it incredible that 18 months after the fact there are some here that still can't move on. Many bands would be happy to make a career stretch to 20 years and a handful of albums. The Beach Boys have given over 50 years, many, many albums and sacrificed two founding members. While enjoying many of the benefits,some members personal lives and health have suffered due, in part I'm sure, to the nature of the industry.

They owe me nothing yet  I still have the opportunity should I want to, to see individual members solo or in pairings continue to play the music live and that has been the case for the last 15 years, not to mention their new solo albums.

I wonder sometimes if there are those here who will only be happy if a band member drops dead onstage providing them with the music and experience they feel they are entitled to.




They have given enough, haven't they.
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« Reply #244 on: March 06, 2014, 06:59:22 PM »

More than enough.

I congratulate those here that have stayed in one job with the same people for there whole career. If you are over 70 I give my first born! There must be a few as they have criticized members of the C50 line-up and in some cases their families, for months.

I have been in my same career I still love for almost 30 years with multiple workmates who I regard as friends. However if I still feel 'needed' when I am 70 they can go take a flying f*ck, to put it mildly. My own well being comes first and the wants of a few does not even come in to it frankly.
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« Reply #245 on: March 06, 2014, 07:19:19 PM »

Sure. Let's hope also that Jeff Beck has the right motivation so that he and Brian can finish those damn studio tracks.

Doubt it. Jeff Beck is finishing up his own album and doing a world tour starting in April and ending in July. Brian's album isn't on his priority list.
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« Reply #246 on: March 06, 2014, 09:19:12 PM »

More than enough.

I congratulate those here that have stayed in one job with the same people for there whole career. If you are over 70 I give my first born! There must be a few as they have criticized members of the C50 line-up and in some cases their families, for months.

I have been in my same career I still love for almost 30 years with multiple workmates who I regard as friends. However if I still feel 'needed' when I am 70 they can go take a flying f*ck, to put it mildly. My own well being comes first and the wants of a few does not even come in to it frankly.

What if they are your cousin, who made your life possible?
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« Reply #247 on: March 06, 2014, 09:44:18 PM »


What if they are your cousin, who made your life possible?

That`s not how human beings work though is it...

Who made your life possible? For most people it is their parents who give not only their time but hundreds of thousands of dollars (on average) in bringing them up. Now does that mean that decades later people will (or should) only do things to please their parents even if it goes against their own wishes?

Brian gave just as much to the other group members but it didn`t stop Carl from putting an end to the Don Was sessions, Al from suing Brian etc. They are all only human after all...
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« Reply #248 on: March 06, 2014, 09:58:35 PM »



Because Brian just handed them an acclaimed album which put them back on the charts for the first time since the days of Kokomo, and a tour which made them a metric buttload of money to boot?

Totally aside from sentimental hey-let's-all-stay-together-we're-family reasons, there's a strong practical reason to let Brian do things his way:  it's worked.

A huge amount of money brought in no doubt. And huge expenses. Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity as they say. Didn`t Mike say that he made more money with his M&B touring than he did with C50? I don`t know whether that`s true but as they couldn`t have continued touring with that regularity, there seems little doubt that he will have made more in 2013 and 2014 than he would have done if the C50 had stayed together.
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« Reply #249 on: March 06, 2014, 10:20:25 PM »

Because Brian just handed them an acclaimed album which put them back on the charts for the first time since the days of Kokomo, and a tour which made them a metric buttload of money to boot?
Jon Blum

Think you'll find that Brian had a little help doing the album, and I very much doubt that the entire C50 package (which, let us not forget also included The Smile Sessions) was his idea, and his alone.

Me being picky point: the band have been on the charts regularly in the 25-odd years since "Kokomo". Last time was 2012.
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