"Actor Philip Seymour Hoffman Found Dead in Manhattan"

[Jay]

So even after twenty years of sobriety, all it took was one little slip up(he snorted heroin last year, I believe), and that part of the brain kicked in, causing a downward spiral which eventually led to him od'ing in a room with sixty five bags of heroin? Damn. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

The huge number of bags tells me it's highly likely he'd been back on the smack for somewhat longer than a few days, or even weeks.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

I read in an article over at Slate that he had started getting back on the drug in 2012 and had been in a downward spiral ever since.  Somehow it seems even more of a shame that he had beaten his addiction for so long before this  happened.

[guitarfool2002]

Keep an eye on that heroin-fetanyl blend I mentioned on page one, as that's apparently one of the main speculations as they're investigating the death.

It came out over that last day or so that Hoffman had indeed hit a major downward spiral that led to his partner throwing him out over the drug use, the sheer number of bags found in his place at the scene as was mentioned, and also one of his last public appearances at a film festival where he told one of the attendees, unprompted, that he was an addict.

On the plane ride back, he was passed out for most of it, and when he got to the airport he had to call for one of those electric carts to give him a lift through the terminal as he was too weak to walk on his own. And reports are too that in the past weeks he looked disheveled and unclean when people did see him, like he was letting himself go.

As for the heroin-fetanyl blend that's being looked at in the investigation, I reported Pennsylvania had reached a death toll of 22 so far, on those areas which have reported it, and two other northeastern US states have reported deaths due specifically to this blend which counted together are around 100 OD deaths in the past few weeks.

Fetanyl is an extremely potent drug which is given to late-term cancer patients for pain, some have described it as "100 times more powerful" than other painkillers.

Damn.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

There's an article just released by the associated press saying that preliminary tests haven't shown any traces of fetanyl.  Those aren't official, though, so we can't be sure yet.

http://gma.yahoo.com/police-hoffman-heroin-didn-t-additive-death-investigation-072907825--abc-news-topstories.html

[guitarfool2002]

There's an article just released by the associated press saying that preliminary tests haven't shown any traces of fetanyl.  Those aren't official, though, so we can't be sure yet.

http://gma.yahoo.com/police-hoffman-heroin-didn-t-additive-death-investigation-072907825--abc-news-topstories.html

Thanks for posting this new info. I read the article, and my frustration level rose just a bit at the fact the NYPD released such a statement. Why say what it's *not* when the official results have not been released? I don't get that. And why does it take a month to confirm if it is a blend or if it is the "Ace Of Spades" trademark that the found with those four idiots they arrested who were selling those bags?

Quote:
Officials initially wondered if the heroin found at Hoffman’s apartment contained fentanyl, a potent synthetic morphine linked to 22 suspected overdose deaths in western Pennsylvania. While official toxicology results are forthcoming – they’ll likely be released next month – preliminary tests of the heroin showed no traces of fentanyl, NYPD spokesman Stephen Davis told ABC News.

It takes a month to run a basic test beyond what this spokesman said to find traces of such an identifiable substance such as fentanyl?

Something doesn't seem right here. You usually deny when you're trying to cover something up, rather than just saying "we won't know until the tests come back and it can be confirmed." And why even say there were *no traces* of fentanyl when the answer should have been "we don't know at this point"?

See what I'm getting upset about here?

Fucking New York City anyway, let's not address some potentially deadly sh*t going around in a week when "Hizzoner" the mayor announces major policy moves on Islamic holidays in the public schools and boycotting the St. Patrick's Day parade. Enjoy.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I admit that I've been following this story on Piers Morgan and the Dr. Drew Show. This post has nothing to do with the merits or credibility of those two shows.

It is intriguing to me because, with the recent discussion on Dennis and Brian's addiction (and basically being a Beach Boy diehard), there are a lot of similarities. You have a celebrity, an artist, who had talent, money, loved ones, and everything to live for, only to lose it all to addiction. Again, despite what you might think about the above shows, they are discussing the subject in great detail, and it is very educational to me. Yeah, you know much of it (again, through threads on here), but a lot is new and it does reinforce some points that you might doubt.

[bgas]

There's an article just released by the associated press saying that preliminary tests haven't shown any traces of fetanyl.  Those aren't official, though, so we can't be sure yet.

http://gma.yahoo.com/police-hoffman-heroin-didn-t-additive-death-investigation-072907825--abc-news-topstories.html

Thanks for posting this new info. I read the article, and my frustration level rose just a bit at the fact the NYPD released such a statement. Why say what it's *not* when the official results have not been released? I don't get that. And why does it take a month to confirm if it is a blend or if it is the "Ace Of Spades" trademark that the found with those four idiots they arrested who were selling those bags?

Quote:
Officials initially wondered if the heroin found at Hoffman’s apartment contained fentanyl, a potent synthetic morphine linked to 22 suspected overdose deaths in western Pennsylvania. While official toxicology results are forthcoming – they’ll likely be released next month – preliminary tests of the heroin showed no traces of fentanyl, NYPD spokesman Stephen Davis told ABC News.

It takes a month to run a basic test beyond what this spokesman said to find traces of such an identifiable substance such as fentanyl?

Something doesn't seem right here. You usually deny when you're trying to cover something up, rather than just saying "we won't know until the tests come back and it can be confirmed." And why even say there were *no traces* of fentanyl when the answer should have been "we don't know at this point"?

See what I'm getting upset about here?

Fucking New York City anyway, let's not address some potentially deadly sh*t going around in a week when "Hizzoner" the mayor announces major policy moves on Islamic holidays in the public schools and boycotting the St. Patrick's Day parade. Enjoy.

Just don't see where it matters whether theer was Fentanyl, or not. He was back on the stuff and it was only a matter of time before this happened, based on his recent past.  He's gone either way. 

[Jay]

The latest reports that I've read stated that about four arrests have been made in direct connection with the heroin found in his apartment. Which raises an interesting question, whether or not arrests are being made just because it involves a celebrity. Why is it that the drug dealers who may have contributed to Phillip Seymour Hoffman's death are being brought to justice, when the drug dealers who sold the drugs that killed Joe Q Public get to slip away back into the darkness? But then again, it's the drug addicts own stupid fault for taking the drugs in the first place, right? I recall reading about the actor Carol O'Conner bringing to justice the guy who sold cocaine to his son, who later overdosed and died on the drug. Was it the dealers fault? If they hadn't sold the drugs to the person, then he or she would not have taken them and died. But it was the choice of the addict to take the drug in the first place. It should be the addict and the addict only who should be held accountable, right? Is it fair to arrest the dealers, when it wasn't their choice to have the person ingest the drug? After all, an addict is an addict. Who's to say that the person would die on that particular day, after taking that particular dose of that particular drug? Now, things are very different in the case of the recent Fentanyl-heroin deaths. Somebody cut the heroin with Fentanyl, and contributed to 22 deaths. Something like that is inexcusable, and whoever was behind that should be brought to justice.

[rn57]

The strange thing about the four arrests - there was a threat started in the General Music section about PSH, and there were posts saying, no, he's an actor, not a musician or singer, it goes in the Sandbox.

But three of the four people picked up last night have something to do with music. The young guy whose name slips my mind is a DJ. Tom Cushman, though better known for managing bookstores and doing literary agenting, played guitar in bands in his early 20s and recorded an album-length demo with none other than the late Beastie Boy Adam Yauch singing.

And the guy whom the cops are treating as Mr Big, Robert Aaron, has a very long and impressive resume as a multi-instrumentalist, working with everyone from no-waver James Chance to Bowie to Mick Jagger to Wyclef Jean, with whom he toured for a decade. 

But then again, this is heroin - a drug which somehow always seems to have closer ties to musicians than some other drugs.

[guitarfool2002]

Hear me out on this, if I'm wrong - I'm wrong, and feel free to call me out on this as the story develops.

But these arrests look to me like a big Red Herring, and look more like the NYPD trying to make a high-profile media event to show they're on top of the case and making arrests. But the details of this group under arrest, as early as it is, might suggest they're not as involved as the headlines would suggest.

Keep these things in mind:

Whatever Hoffman shot up knocked him out instantly, as the needle was found still stuck in his arm. That would suggest he shot up and before he could even remove the needle, he was out. Did he die instantly, or did he just pass out instantly and die later? That will be revealed, I'm sure. But needless to say, if he shot the junk and it KO'ed him before he could even remove the needle from his arm, that was some seriously strong sh*t. And a strong, potent blend like the heroin/fentanyl mix that has killed over a hundred users in just two weeks, reported only in three regions so far but could include even more deaths, could have that same instant effect due to the potency of that mixture.

Some clarifications:

1. Hoffman's apartment had 70 bags, more than previously reported. Some were marked with the "Ace Of Spades" brand marking.

*None* of that Ace Of Spades batch was found in the apartments of any of those supposed dealers who they arrested. Again, not one had that logo among the junk they were selling.

2. Robert Aaron, the saxophone player who they're naming as the main seller, uses that as a stage name. His real name is Vineberg. He had been selling heroin, but a friend said he had not seen Hoffman since November.

The reason why Vineberg/Aaron was picked up was because Hoffman's cel phone number was found in his cel phone contacts. Again, that Ace brand of smack that was found with Hoffman was not found in Vineberg's place. Logic might suggest if Vineberg had sold the junk to Hoffman, Vineberg would also have some of that same junk. But if he really had not been in contact with Hoffman since November, it might be that Hoffman got the stuff in the bags they found from other sources.

3. The young woman arrested had little or nothing to do with anything here - she was charged with misdemeanor possession of cocaine or drug paraphernalia, or something related. To drag her into this at this point still does not make sense, unless there is a lot more to the story. But to haul someone in for possession, and put her face across the international media wire services as someone connected to the death of Hoffman seems ridiculous at this time.

4. Heroin is far more prevalent than people want to admit. Consider who these people arrested are, and their backgrounds and economic status. It wouldn't be surprising that Hoffman's name might appear in a dealer's cel phone contact list, but unless the police are concealing far more evidence and proof than they have released, they're arresting a guy who was known in musician circles in New York who may have had dealings with Hoffman, but is there any direct link to recent weeks? Or is it a case where he may have last seen Hoffman in November, and the PD wanted a high-profile arrest?


Just consider this: The NYPD spokesman made it a point to say it was *NOT* the heroin/fetanyl blend responsible for this before the full testing had begun, yet they're arresting a group of people who in one case had nothing more than a misdemeanor offense to be charged with, and another who friends say had not seen Hoffman since the fall, and whose pad had none of the kind of bags with the brand logo that was found in Hoffman's apartment.

So it wasn't heroin/fetanyl...but we have arrested the people responsible for his death?

I just don't buy it at face value, it actually stinks too bad to not think something is rotten here.

And if I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected.

[Jay]

You raise some very good points. I thought it was odd that the NYPD is taking such an interest in a case where the cause of death hasn't even been announced yet. Of course, we all know it was a heroin OD, but it hasn't been made "official" yet. This case is getting weirder and weirder. Now I'm reading that Hoffman may have actually been a dealer, because of the massive amount he was found with.

[Bean Bag]

Which raises an interesting question, whether or not arrests are being made just because it involves a celebrity. Why is it that the drug dealers who may have contributed to Phillip Seymour Hoffman's death are being brought to justice, when the drug dealers who sold the drugs that killed Joe Q Public get to slip away back into the darkness?

I feel the same way.  But in a instance like this, it's high profile because he was a famous, bright, talented star.  And people are paying attention.  Including other dope dealers.  That's the kicker.  If the NYPD doesn't crack down, it sends a signal that -- "hey, bad batch... or he OD'ed or something.  Not my problem."  And life goes on.  But by moving swiftly, it's gotta make some think twice about it all.

But I do sympathize with your sentiment.  It often feels like if a little rich white girl turns up missing or worse -- it's a story!!!    If she died, and there's a trial -- ka-ching!!!  For like a year.  But if it's some little black girl in the inner city... meh, the "also column" on the local news.   

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Didn't the woman who sold John Belushi whatever it was he OD'd on get sent away for many many years?

[bgas]

Didn't the woman who sold John Belushi whatever it was he OD'd on get sent away for many many years?

Belushi OD'd?  Was that before or after he did Curly Sue?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Didn't the woman who sold John Belushi whatever it was he OD'd on get sent away for many many years?

Belushi OD'd?  Was that before or after he did Curly Sue?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Belushi

JIM Belushi was in Curly Sue.

[bgas]

Didn't the woman who sold John Belushi whatever it was he OD'd on get sent away for many many years?

Belushi OD'd?  Was that before or after he did Curly Sue?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Belushi

JIM Belushi was in Curly Sue.

Oh MAN!!  Better get back to the bong...

[Bean Bag]

 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Didn't the woman who sold John Belushi whatever it was he OD'd on get sent away for many many years?

Belushi OD'd?  Was that before or after he did Curly Sue?

"Back To The Bong"

sounds like the type of retro-song Mike would write if he'd travelled a slightly different path

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Belushi

JIM Belushi was in Curly Sue.

Oh MAN!!  Better get back to the bong...

[bgas]

Didn't the woman who sold John Belushi whatever it was he OD'd on get sent away for many many years?

Belushi OD'd?  Was that before or after he did Curly Sue?

"Back To The Bong"

sounds like the type of retro-song Mike would write if he'd travelled a slightly different path

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Belushi

JIM Belushi was in Curly Sue.

Oh MAN!!  Better get back to the bong...

Oh, so now you're taking the filledpage route?

[SMiLE Brian]

 

[filledeplage]

Didn't the woman who sold John Belushi whatever it was he OD'd on get sent away for many many years?

Belushi OD'd?  Was that before or after he did Curly Sue?

"Back To The Bong"

sounds like the type of retro-song Mike would write if he'd travelled a slightly different path

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Belushi

JIM Belushi was in Curly Sue.

Oh MAN!!  Better get back to the bong...

Oh, so now you're taking the filledpage route?

Posting inside the grid, instead of outside!

Guilty, as charged! 

No detention on Fridays! Only