"Wilson driven negativity"

[leggo of my ego]

Communication is everything.

If she meant an attack directed at Mike that was driven by fans (who are very protective) of Brian, that is not what she typed.

[Mike's Beard]

Communication is everything.

If she meant an attack directed at Mike that was driven by fans (who are very protective) of Brian, that is not what she typed.

Exactly. When I read the initial FB post my first thought was that The Wilson's themselves had been putting out negative comments.

[Ron]

She's as bad at making peace as Mike is.

She's not saying Brian Wilson is driving negativity, she's saying Brian's supporters are being negative and talking sh*t about Mike, which is true in a large part. 

If the fans talk sh*t about Mike on every forum in the world and on his facebook page, why in the world would he ever get the band back together for the fans? 

Do you see any Mike Love fans going around talking sh*t about Brian?  They wouldn't have a leg to stand on, so maybe that's it, but the point is valid. 

[Cyncie]

You know, there's really no excuse for bad behavior on the internet. Mike and his family have to be tired of the constant berating he gets. He earned this award, and has every right to enjoy it and be proud of it, without any of the previous backlash coming into it. However, this situation is a good example of how Mike seems to perpetuate that very backlash. I mean, really. Doesn't Mike have anyone in his organization who understands PR? Because Mike is is own worst enemy, most times.

Yes, Brian has very rabid fans. Yes, they are protective and often view Mike as the bad guy. But, Mike often makes it easy to dislike him. For example, since the "I felt like I was fired" business blew over, most of the negativity about the C50 and TWGMTR has come from Mike. Something that Beach Boys fans and Brian fans were excited about and considered a professional and personal triumph is belittled by Mister Positivity.  You can't lay down the negative vibes, then be upset when they come back to smack you in face. Dragging the Wilsons into this situation when they're not even a part of it isn't helpful. It's just going to make the Brian fans more protective, and further cement their opinion of Mike.

Seriously. He needs to fire his PR guy and take a Dale Carnegie course.

[filledeplage]

If you check out some of the comments sections on internet threads where Ambha Love has posted about her dad, there are some absolutely disgusting and just plain wrong sentiments raised by certain types of Beach Boys fans.
For Mike (and his family) to stay as levelheaded about this kind of abuse is damn saintly if you ask me.

They're not fans. New-school Brianistas more like. I'm a card-carrying Brianista of the old school, class of 1978, and they make me cringe. That thread that asked if you were ever embarrassed to be a BB fan ? This is one such time.

Interesting, Andrew, your observation of "factions" of fans which have evolved, and who have become polarized, and I think, unfortunately, when the "principals" are happy for one another. Blood is still thicker than water. We all love the music. And not unlike politics where discord often erupts, sadly, more among the competing campaign staff, rather than candidates themselves who behave more appropriately and professionally.  Good for Ambha and Mrs. Love to "stand up."

Mike has ONLY sent his very best wishes, anytime Brian was feted, at some award or another.  True, gracious and sincere congrats, always to his cuzz.  Mike is one of those essential BB voices, whether it is Little St. Nick, or Fun, Fun, Fun, the baritone a cappellas, or the myriad of other BB hits over the 50+ years, not to mention his vast lyrical contribution.  Any awards to any BB's reflect positively upon the entire BB/BW "sphere." They have the same "roots." It's all good!

Bravo Mike!  

[CenturyDeprived]

I for one think conflating "anti-Mike" with "Wilson" or "Brianista" or "pro-Brian" is a dangerous leap, and those making it are, in my mind, showing their own bias.

If one feels that Mike Love is being unfairly maligned in any way, how difficult is it to call that behavior out by characterizing it correctly as unfair towards Mike Love. Why would they need to charcterize it as "Wilson driven?" First of all, that implies it is driven by the actual "Wilsons" rather than "Wilson fans", and if it is actually meant only to refer to "Wilson fans", then it paints such a broad stroke about Wilson fans that there's no way to tell which "Wilson fans" they are talking about. Pretty much any Mike fan or BB fan is probably usually a Wilson fan too, right?

The wingnuts saying the truly nasty things online about Mike Love are doing so because they are unfairly (if we're talking about those going past fair criticism) biased against Mike Love, or simply because they are nuts. They clearly have more going on than simply being devout Wilson fans, because most devout Wilson fans are not perpetrating whatever it is that has elicited this recent response.

This facebook crap on the one hand clearly shows they are frustrated with the anti-Mike comments and sentiment. That's fair enough (I haven't seen what they're specifically referring to, so I don't know whether these supposed anti-Mike comments are fair criticism or not). But immediately dialing in on "Wilson driven" tells me they are overly-sensitive specifically about Brian Wilson getting all of the accolades. After all this time, it really is still an ego thing relating to Brian. To me, that's extremely telling of what's still going on after 53 freaking years.

To me, there's still no true objective self-awareness in that Mike Love camp. There's no perspective. Like with the reunion tour mess, not once did Love seem to step back and comment objectively that he clearly looked like a d**k even if he wasn't actually being one neccesarily. The guy refuses to acknowledge why people don't like him, and why he has the awful reputation he has. I think I've occasionally seen him acknowledge that his sarcastic sense of humor doesn't translate.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for his or his camp's jumping to his defense if some humility was involved more often. I don't mean just saying Mike is humble, but actually admitting mistakes or trying to understand why people may not like some of the things he does. If just once in awhile he would say "yeah, I can see why people might be pissed off that I continue to use the Beach Boys name to tour" or "yeah, I can understand some people might be frustrated that "Kokomo" appeals to me more than "Smile", and so on.

Does Brian or Al or anybody offer these sorts of humble moments? I don't know, but they aren't attacked in the same fashion and don't have anywhere near the level or criticism lobbed at them. Maybe that's one of those things that is telling in and of itself.

+1.

To the public at large, I think that Mike has become the most hated musician in the history rock and roll – am I off base by saying that?

And it freaking sucks that this is the case, but that’s what I think the polls would say if they were conducted. And the guy’s lack of self-awareness has to be the main culprit for this reputation.    

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. ALL that Mike has to do is to open up a conversation or an interview where he addresses stuff like this a little bit. Where he expresses some self awareness, and a digs beyond the simple “I have a sarcastic sense of humor” thing.  

Mike needs to talk about some past regrets of his own actions, and show that he can grasp the concept that his personality clashed with Brian’s personality over the years, in specific ways that wound up with Brian feeling deeply hurt, and that he is sincerely sorry if he ever caused anybody any pain. I think Mike is afraid to do that, because it would open up the conversation to Mike having to take even a tiny, tiny portion of responsibility for having been a piece of the puzzle that led to Brian’s subsequent decline.  

Seriously, a single sincere interview like, where he’d answer some tough questions without blaming everything on the Wilsons’ drug use and Murry (two huge culprits, but not the entire picture), would help diffuse a great deal of “Pro-Wilson” fan anger that’s been directed against Mike for decades. I think that’s the giant bug up every Wilsonista’s butt – it’s not simply the fans dwelling on bad things that went down between these guys decades ago, but what REALLY gets peoples’ goats, IMO, is Mike’s continued current-day refusal (at least in terms of public acknowledgement) to address ways in which his own behavior/actions in the past could have profoundly negatively affected others around him.

It’s painful to see Mike’s family deeply hurt by reading purely hateful, mindless ranting online… but I would think Mike's wife and daughter would realize that Mike letting his guard down, and approaching difficult territory like this would ultimately help the situation in a significant way.  I'd love to think that his family could get him to realize this. But maybe they've drank the Kool Aid too.

[Menace Wilson]

"Wilson driven negativity"

Such ideas aren't generally created in a vaccuum...may give some insight into how her spouse feels about the Wilsons...

[HeyJude]

If you check out some of the comments sections on internet threads where Ambha Love has posted about her dad, there are some absolutely disgusting and just plain wrong sentiments raised by certain types of Beach Boys fans.
For Mike (and his family) to stay as levelheaded about this kind of abuse is damn saintly if you ask me.

They're not fans. New-school Brianistas more like. I'm a card-carrying Brianista of the old school, class of 1978, and they make me cringe. That thread that asked if you were ever embarrassed to be a BB fan ? This is one such time.

Interesting, Andrew, your observation of "factions" of fans which have evolved, and who have become polarized, and I think, unfortunately, when the "principals" are happy for one another. Blood is still thicker than water. We all love the music. And not unlike politics where discord often erupts, sadly, more among the competing campaign staff, rather than candidates themselves who behave more appropriately and professionally.  Good for Ambha and Mrs. Love to "stand up."

Mike has ONLY sent his very best wishes, anytime Brian was feted, at some award or another.  True, gracious and sincere congrats, always to his cuzz.  Mike is one of those essential BB voices, whether it is Little St. Nick, or Fun, Fun, Fun, the baritone a cappellas, or the myriad of other BB hits over the 50+ years, not to mention his vast lyrical contribution.  Any awards to any BB's reflect positively upon the entire BB/BW "sphere." They have the same "roots." It's all good!

Bravo Mike!  

I’m curious about this. How often over the years has Mike even been asked to comment on various awards or accolades Brian has received? I don’t recall Mike specifically saying anything negative about such events (Mike was pretty dismissive of Brian’s “Smile” album, which eventually won Brian a grammy, but that was I suppose more indirect negatively from Mike). But do we have any comment of any sort from Mike regarding, say, his “Musicares” honor, or his Kennedy Center honor event? My perception is that all of the BB’s generally either never comment on this stuff, and in rare cases when they do, they certainly don’t criticize any fellow members for awards or recognition.

But I’m also curious why Mike’s position on Brian’s accolades matters here. Has Brian said anything negative about this Mike Love event, or any accolades Mike has received?

This is indeed all from fans, but unless Brian or his camp are encouraging or conspiring with fans to say negative things about Mike, then we’re talking about some conglomeration of fans, not Brian. I would even go so far as to say that a good hunk of the really awful, almost cartoonishly over-the-top anti-Mike stuff on the internet comes more from general s***-disturbers and trolls than it does from ardent, loyal, sane Brian Wilson fans.

[filledeplage]

If you check out some of the comments sections on internet threads where Ambha Love has posted about her dad, there are some absolutely disgusting and just plain wrong sentiments raised by certain types of Beach Boys fans.
For Mike (and his family) to stay as levelheaded about this kind of abuse is damn saintly if you ask me.

They're not fans. New-school Brianistas more like. I'm a card-carrying Brianista of the old school, class of 1978, and they make me cringe. That thread that asked if you were ever embarrassed to be a BB fan ? This is one such time.

Interesting, Andrew, your observation of "factions" of fans which have evolved, and who have become polarized, and I think, unfortunately, when the "principals" are happy for one another. Blood is still thicker than water. We all love the music. And not unlike politics where discord often erupts, sadly, more among the competing campaign staff, rather than candidates themselves who behave more appropriately and professionally.  Good for Ambha and Mrs. Love to "stand up."

Mike has ONLY sent his very best wishes, anytime Brian was feted, at some award or another.  True, gracious and sincere congrats, always to his cuzz.  Mike is one of those essential BB voices, whether it is Little St. Nick, or Fun, Fun, Fun, the baritone a cappellas, or the myriad of other BB hits over the 50+ years, not to mention his vast lyrical contribution.  Any awards to any BB's reflect positively upon the entire BB/BW "sphere." They have the same "roots." It's all good!

Bravo Mike!  

I’m curious about this. How often over the years has Mike even been asked to comment on various awards or accolades Brian has received? I don’t recall Mike specifically saying anything negative about such events (Mike was pretty dismissive of Brian’s “Smile” album, which eventually won Brian a grammy, but that was I suppose more indirect negatively from Mike). But do we have any comment of any sort from Mike regarding, say, his “Musicares” honor, or his Kennedy Center honor event? My perception is that all of the BB’s generally either never comment on this stuff, and in rare cases when they do, they certainly don’t criticize any fellow members for awards or recognition.

But I’m also curious why Mike’s position on Brian’s accolades matters here. Has Brian said anything negative about this Mike Love event, or any accolades Mike has received?

This is indeed all from fans, but unless Brian or his camp are encouraging or conspiring with fans to say negative things about Mike, then we’re talking about some conglomeration of fans, not Brian. I would even go so far as to say that a good hunk of the really awful, almost cartoonishly over-the-top anti-Mike stuff on the internet comes more from general s***-disturbers and trolls than it does from ardent, loyal, sane Brian Wilson fans.

IIRC there was a lovely congratulatory post on Facebook. I'm at a disadvantage, (or advantage) not to be on Facebook to access past posts. 

There hasn't been a Brian quote, but, I've not been looking for them.  I will tell you that having seen the Touring Band as often as possible, Mike Love heaps praise ad infinitum to his cousin.  Every show.  That is public. 

And, I would doubt that Brian himself would involve himself.  He has classy people around him.  If Mike is so "hated" why are the shows consistent sell outs? And, congrats always come from Johnston on BBB, in the Touring Band, and IIRC, one was from the wonderful Kennedy Center awards, I think in 2009.  Unfortunately, you can only access about ten pages of postings. 

[Mikie]

.....................and yet another negative Mike Love thread.  They never go away.  After remaining dormant for a few weeks without posting, people come out of the woodwork to addresss the issue of Mike Love. And this time there wasn't even an interview to talk about.

Jaqui Love blaims it on Brian's fans.  She's use to that. Now she's being vocal about it. It's her prerogative. So what? There's nothing new here. The antagonism towards Mike went away pretty much during the C50 and resumed afterwards. I think the only way it's going away is if the two camps get back together again for a few concerts or in the studio. That's what the fans want - if they don't get it, the anti-Mike sentiment will unfortunately continue.

Wasn't there friction between Melinda and Jacqui during the C50? Rumor still has it that there were issues between the two. They all need to kiss and make up.

[CenturyDeprived]

"Wilson driven negativity"

Such ideas aren't generally created in a vaccuum...may give some insight into how her spouse feels about the Wilsons...

Safe to say that Mike and his camp feel that the Beautiful Dreamer DVD where Brian calls out Mike specifically as being a culprit for SMiLE’s demise would constitute Exhibit A of “Wilson-driven negativity”.

[urbanite]

I haven't seen the program, what did Brian say about Mike and Smile?

[KittyKat]

The fact that Carnie and Wendy will be there for Mike's fete should be enough validation for Mike and his wife that he is respected by the people who count in his life. Why feed the trolls by letting them know they upset you.  Jackie needs to calm down, it's only the internet. As for death threats, report them to the FBI.

[Mikie]

Right!  Carnie and Wendy will be there representing the Wilsons.  And probably more.  Somebody probably just hit a nerve with Jackui.

[leggo of my ego]

"Wilson driven negativity"

Such ideas aren't generally created in a vaccuum...may give some insight into how her spouse feels about the Wilsons...

Safe to say that Mike and his camp feel that the Beautiful Dreamer DVD where Brian calls out Mike specifically as being a culprit for SMiLE’s demise would constitute Exhibit A of “Wilson-driven negativity”.

This hasnt just been voiced by Brian alone - uh oh here we go again.

[KittyKat]

"Wilson driven negativity"

Such ideas aren't generally created in a vaccuum...may give some insight into how her spouse feels about the Wilsons...

Safe to say that Mike and his camp feel that the Beautiful Dreamer DVD where Brian calls out Mike specifically as being a culprit for SMiLE’s demise would constitute Exhibit A of “Wilson-driven negativity”.

This hasnt just been voiced by Brian alone - uh oh here we go again.

On the other hand, maybe Jacquie has a point. When people continue to blame Mike for Brian's mental health problems of the past 40 or so years, there's no rest for the weary.

[Paul J B]

It's because they are losers with nothing better to do than try and annoy people without having to defend their inane comments and opinions. Like the clown that just posted before you....never adds anything of substance to any thread but always chimes in at every possible chance to rip on Mike.

When Brian started his solo touring in 98-99, and the shows opened with a short film, some people booed when Mike was on screen. Brian was not happy about it. If you have any respect for Brian you might remember that.

Pardon me, I don't like a personal attack like that. I am way more knowledgeable in all things BBs to not like Mike Love than people on youtube. Can we agree he is a controversial figure and leave it at that. 

Pardon me, it's people like you that the less knowledgeable people on you tube get their falsities from. To suggest Mike is a controversial figure is a cop out. You continually chime in every damn chance you get to let us all know you think Mike sucks. WE ALREADY KNOW HOW YOU FEEL! The controversy comes from you and your ilk. It is intentional and tiresome.

Mike Love was a Beach Boy from day one. He will be a Beach Boy after he is gone. He has done some foolish things and I agree it's foolish that he tours as "the Beach Boys".  That said, his contributions to the Beach Boys and the Beach Boys legacy are huge. His voice and lyrics are on many of the Beach Boys most outstanding records, and he was ALWAYS a great showman and brought a lot of fun and life to the live shows. He not only deserves respect he has more than earned it.

I have no interest in Jimi Hendricks music even though I acknowledge he was an innovative guitarist. Do you know how ignorant it would be for me to go to a website where a lot of people like Jimi and constantly take potshots and jabs at him. Or to go to a Van Halen site and praise Eddie all of the time and keep bitching about David? I don't think you do. People like you get some kind of inane kick out of telling people over and over and over what your position on something is. We get it! You and OSD and a few other regular posters here can't stand Mike Love because you erroneously believe he ruined the genius Brian Wilson.

If you want to "leave it at that" then I suggest for the next year or ten when a thread comes up and you feel the need to rip on Mike, then you just click on the next thread and let it go.............

[SMiLE Brian]

Why the hell would you blame me for the asshats on youtube. All it takes for the average person to dislike Mike Love is to look up "Beach Boys Rock and roll hall of fame" to see Mike hogging the stage like a complete wacko. Also, Mike has toured with the BBs name for 50 years but It doesn't mean it was healthy or good to do so. The 1980-1998 Beach Boys under his leadership were a joke of a recording live act with Carl and Al marginalized. This  period turned the group into Mike's tacky solo group in everything but name only. It took BW's solo touring and release of smile to get Mike to actually put on a good show with deeper cuts beside the "hits" and covers that Mike sang thousands of times with a horrible nasal "whine" that was a parody of his classic voice. I don't like Mike Love because he "ruined" BW, its because he is an absolute joke as recording and performing leader of the BBs who can't see the forest for the trees for why the BBs are legends.

[drbeachboy]

Why the hell would you blame me for the asshats on youtube. All it takes for the average person to dislike Mike Love is to look up "Beach Boys Rock and roll hall of fame" to see Mike hogging the stage like a complete wacko. Also, Mike has toured with the BBs name for 50 years but It doesn't mean it was healthy or good to do so. The 1980-1998 Beach Boys under his leadership were a joke of a recording live act with Carl and Al marginalized. This  period turned the group into Mike's tacky solo group in everything but name only. It took BW's solo touring and release of smile to get Mike to actually put on a good show with deeper cuts beside the "hits" and covers that Mike sang thousands of times with a horrible nasal "whine" that was a parody of his classic voice. I don't like Mike Love because he "ruined" BW, its because he is an absolute joke as recording and performing leader of the BBs who can't see the forest for the trees for why the BBs are legends.

How do you figure that Mike marginalized Carl & Al? Mike had one quarter of the vote. Depending on Brian's vote, Carl and Al could have out voted Mike on almost anything if they stuck together. With no solid recording contract, the writing was on the wall. Their business was as a live act, not recording artists. I am sure that what went down was agreed upon by all parties. If anyone was marginalized, it was only one of the two, and if that was the case, then someone sided with Mike. Just my opinion.

[clack]

Mike is getting on (as aren't we all), and it's sad that he and his family are not able to fully enjoy the acclaim that a lifetime of accomplishments would otherwise entitle him to. Mike helped to create an amazing body of work, and doesn't deserve all the brickbats thrown his way.

Many pop stars have acted much worse than Mike in their careers without receiving  one tenth the grief from "fans" that Mike does-- but Mike Love isn't cool. He's dorky and sometimes crass, which makes him easy to mock and even -- for some -- to hate.

He's in his 70s now, time to forgive the bad and celebrate the good.

[Doo Dah]

Why the hell would you blame me for the asshats on youtube. All it takes for the average person to dislike Mike Love is to look up "Beach Boys Rock and roll hall of fame" to see Mike hogging the stage like a complete wacko. Also, Mike has toured with the BBs name for 50 years but It doesn't mean it was healthy or good to do so. The 1980-1998 Beach Boys under his leadership were a joke of a recording live act with Carl and Al marginalized. This  period turned the group into Mike's tacky solo group in everything but name only. It took BW's solo touring and release of smile to get Mike to actually put on a good show with deeper cuts beside the "hits" and covers that Mike sang thousands of times with a horrible nasal "whine" that was a parody of his classic voice. I don't like Mike Love because he "ruined" BW, its because he is an absolute joke as recording and performing leader of the BBs who can't see the forest for the trees for why the BBs are legends.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

Hey, the fence is down and the cows are in the field. There is NOthing on God's green earth that can change popular bias other than Mike coming 'clean' and (as noted) accept a little humble introspection in how everything went down in the day. "It was the drugs"...yeah, sure it was. No...it was family who while blood, were growing apart from one another over the years.

A CLEAN AND SOBER Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson and Dennis Wilson would STILL STILL STILL have issues with Mike Love and his overly sanitized corporate carnival-show branding of the band in the 80's. (Of course, a clean n' sober crew might have settled this discord as well, but so it goes)

It's just that Mike's a willing target, that's all. And quite deserving of much of the cynicism directed his way. He made his bed...let him meditate in it.

[KittyKat]

Why the hell would you blame me for the asshats on youtube. All it takes for the average person to dislike Mike Love is to look up "Beach Boys Rock and roll hall of fame" to see Mike hogging the stage like a complete wacko. Also, Mike has toured with the BBs name for 50 years but It doesn't mean it was healthy or good to do so. The 1980-1998 Beach Boys under his leadership were a joke of a recording live act with Carl and Al marginalized. This  period turned the group into Mike's tacky solo group in everything but name only. It took BW's solo touring and release of smile to get Mike to actually put on a good show with deeper cuts beside the "hits" and covers that Mike sang thousands of times with a horrible nasal "whine" that was a parody of his classic voice. I don't like Mike Love because he "ruined" BW, its because he is an absolute joke as recording and performing leader of the BBs who can't see the forest for the trees for why the BBs are legends.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

Hey, the fence is down and the cows are in the field. There is NOthing on God's green earth that can change popular bias other than Mike coming 'clean' and (as noted) accept a little humble introspection in how everything went down in the day. "It was the drugs"...yeah, sure it was. No...it was family who while blood, were growing apart from one another over the years.

A CLEAN AND SOBER Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson and Dennis Wilson would STILL STILL STILL have issues with Mike Love and his overly sanitized corporate carnival-show branding of the band in the 80's. (Of course, a clean n' sober crew might have settled this discord as well, but so it goes)

It's just that Mike's a willing target, that's all. And quite deserving of much of the cynicism directed his way. He made his bed...let him meditate in it.

I don't think Mike will ever "apologize."  It's how he feels. If he said otherwise, he would be lying, and people would know he was lying. What he CAN do is stop talking about the past so much. If he's Mr. Positivity (gotta love how that always comes up as a misspelled word when you type it in, because it's a word of Mike's invention only), why does he spend so much time being Mr. Negativity? Maybe this ELLA award should inspire him to stop being so dependent on the Beach Boys for validation. He can record his own songs instead of waiting for a call from Brian that may never come. If he can't come up with songs of his own, he can try his hand at covering the old standards or hit's of the '70s or something. It worked for Barry Manilow and Rod Stewart.

[alf wiedersehen]

Well, I don't know a whole lot, but what I do know is that Mike definitely did not invent the word "positivity."

[bossaroo]

"Wilson driven" better describes the music Mike performs at every show.

[Blue2013]

The thread title made me think that this was Mike Love yet again saying he is Mr. Positivity and Brian Wilson is Mr. Negativity.
To say the least, its misleading for Love's family to brand nasty comments on facebook as "Wilson driven negativity" when Brian likely has nothing to do with it.

....or does he??