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Author Topic: Brian Wilson's Secret Bedroom Tapes - LA Weekly 1-30-14  (Read 51167 times)
SurfRiderHawaii
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« Reply #300 on: February 13, 2016, 07:07:28 PM »

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Stephen, did  I  read this correctly or were you just kidding that you have or"the original finished version of Sail-On-Sailor I recorded back at the house studio with Carl doing the lead"?

COMMENT:  Yes. It will be part of a study-video on Sail-On-Sailor.  We lived with Carl's lead for many months as a finished product, but when the song was not included in Surf's Up,  Blondie essentially copied Carl's inflections and phrasing with his replacement lead with the song being used in Holland -- As I understand, the new lead was recorded in the USA, after the group's return from Nederland.   ~swd

Thank you Stephen! I assume Brother has a copy? Don't suppose you have any of Dennis' takes at the vocal?
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"Brian is The Beach Boys. He is the band. We're his f***ing messengers. He is all of it. Period. We're nothing. He's everything" - Dennis Wilson
SurfRiderHawaii
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« Reply #301 on: February 13, 2016, 07:50:31 PM »

I think it is indeed an important distinction to make, that there perhaps aren’t a bunch of unheard Brian gems, meaning songs we haven’t heard. But there is a good amount of archival material from the 70s and 80s from the entire band that is worth releasing. Maybe the band doesn’t want to put out a ton of the stuff. But it is there. Just looking at those “Proposed Brother Bonus Tracks” and weeding out the stuff that has since been officially released and stuff that, for some fans, is of little musical merit and/or has been in common “circulation” for eons (e.g. “Carnival”), there’s a good disc or two worth of material (which I think would make far more sense presented on deluxe editions of their respective albums, along with extra backing tracks, vocals-only mixes, etc.). How realistic such releases are is a different story. But I think most fans that frequent places like this board would love to see this stuff released. It isn’t all “bottom of the barrel” stuff.

Big Sur (Original Version)
‘Til I Die (Demo)
‘Til I Die (Alt. Lyrics)
Surf’s Up (Vocals-Only)
Awake (Brian Demo)
Fourth of July (Alt. Version)
Lady (Vintage Stereo Mix)
I’m Going Your Way
Add Some Music to Your Day (Alt. Version)
This Whole World (Alt. Longer Version)
Tears in the Morning (Alt. Version)
Carry Me Home
The Trader (Alt. Version)
Out in the Country
Holland EP Demo
We Gotta Groove
Lazy Lizzie
Marilyn Rovell


Sail on Sailor (Carl Wilson lead vocal)
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #302 on: February 13, 2016, 10:00:20 PM »

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Stephen, did  I  read this correctly or were you just kidding that you have or"the original finished version of Sail-On-Sailor I recorded back at the house studio with Carl doing the lead"?

COMMENT:  Yes. It will be part of a study-video on Sail-On-Sailor.  We lived with Carl's lead for many months as a finished product, but when the song was not included in Surf's Up,  Blondie essentially copied Carl's inflections and phrasing with his replacement lead with the song being used in Holland -- As I understand, the new lead was recorded in the USA, after the group's return from Nederland.   ~swd

Thank you Stephen! I assume Brother has a copy?
COMMENT:  I wouldn't assume anything.  When I left after Surf's Up's release, the Sail-On-Sailor multi-track had Carl's voice doing the lead. It had been mixed down to two-track, intended to be a single release. The next time I heard it, it was on the Holland album with my tracking and background vocals, but with Blondie doing the lead. I doubt the multi-track still has the original Carl lead, but a two-track may still be somewhere.  Again, I wouldn't assume anything these days. ~swd
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #303 on: February 13, 2016, 10:05:30 PM »

I think it is indeed an important distinction to make, that there perhaps aren’t a bunch of unheard Brian gems, meaning songs we haven’t heard. But there is a good amount of archival material from the 70s and 80s from the entire band that is worth releasing. Maybe the band doesn’t want to put out a ton of the stuff. But it is there. Just looking at those “Proposed Brother Bonus Tracks” and weeding out the stuff that has since been officially released and stuff that, for some fans, is of little musical merit and/or has been in common “circulation” for eons (e.g. “Carnival”), there’s a good disc or two worth of material (which I think would make far more sense presented on deluxe editions of their respective albums, along with extra backing tracks, vocals-only mixes, etc.). How realistic such releases are is a different story. But I think most fans that frequent places like this board would love to see this stuff released. It isn’t all “bottom of the barrel” stuff.

Big Sur (Original Version)
‘Til I Die (Demo)
‘Til I Die (Alt. Lyrics)
Surf’s Up (Vocals-Only)
Awake (Brian Demo)
Fourth of July (Alt. Version)
Lady (Vintage Stereo Mix)
I’m Going Your Way
Add Some Music to Your Day (Alt. Version)
This Whole World (Alt. Longer Version)
Tears in the Morning (Alt. Version)
Carry Me Home
The Trader (Alt. Version)
Out in the Country
Holland EP Demo
We Gotta Groove
Lazy Lizzie
Marilyn Rovell


Sail on Sailor (Carl Wilson lead vocal)
COMMENT:  Some of those titles can be heard at Recording The Beach Boys (Part One) - Addendum  at my website. ~swd
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SurfRiderHawaii
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« Reply #304 on: February 13, 2016, 10:35:46 PM »

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Stephen, did  I  read this correctly or were you just kidding that you have or"the original finished version of Sail-On-Sailor I recorded back at the house studio with Carl doing the lead"?

COMMENT:  Yes. It will be part of a study-video on Sail-On-Sailor.  We lived with Carl's lead for many months as a finished product, but when the song was not included in Surf's Up,  Blondie essentially copied Carl's inflections and phrasing with his replacement lead with the song being used in Holland -- As I understand, the new lead was recorded in the USA, after the group's return from Nederland.   ~swd

Thank you Stephen! I assume Brother has a copy?
COMMENT:  I wouldn't assume anything.  When I left after Surf's Up's release, the Sail-On-Sailor multi-track had Carl's voice doing the lead. It had been mixed down to two-track, intended to be a single release. The next time I heard it, it was on the Holland album with my tracking and background vocals, but with Blondie doing the lead. I doubt the multi-track still has the original Carl lead, but a two-track may still be somewhere.  Again, I wouldn't assume anything these days. ~swd
Well Stephen,  praise the Lord you kept a copy of the stereo mix with Carl on lead, I think. You seem seem to be giving mixed messages on that confirmation.
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #305 on: February 14, 2016, 04:54:18 AM »

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Well Stephen,  praise the Lord you kept a copy of the stereo mix with Carl on lead, I think. You seem seem to be giving mixed messages on that confirmation.

COMMENT:  See Reply #289
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mtaber
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« Reply #306 on: February 14, 2016, 07:17:19 AM »

OK... so, the Beach Boys come back from Holland, make the initial submission of the album to Warners, who then reject it offhand for not having a "hit single" on it.  Van Dyke Parks comes to the rescue, says he'll get a single out of Brian, and goes to Brian and tells him (regarding Sail On, Sailor) to "finish the damn song!"  Brian says "hypnotize me, Van Dyke, into thinking I'm not insane!"  Perhaps Brian could have rather said "um, sorry to disappoint you, Van Dyke, but the song's already finished, and there's  a finished recording in the can with Carl on lead vocal... but I'd still think it would be pretty cool if you'd hypnotize me!!!"
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #307 on: February 14, 2016, 06:47:21 PM »

OK... so, the Beach Boys come back from Holland, make the initial submission of the album to Warners, who then reject it offhand for not having a "hit single" on it.  Van Dyke Parks comes to the rescue, says he'll get a single out of Brian, and goes to Brian and tells him (regarding Sail On, Sailor) to "finish the damn song!"  Brian says "hypnotize me, Van Dyke, into thinking I'm not insane!"  Perhaps Brian could have rather said "um, sorry to disappoint you, Van Dyke, but the song's already finished, and there's  a finished recording in the can with Carl on lead vocal... but I'd still think it would be pretty cool if you'd hypnotize me!!!"
COMMENT:  Not quite.  The song had been finished for some time, but Carl was never satisfied with his lead performance. He re-recorded the entire lead several times. Then a mixdown. Then go back and sweeten parts of the vocal. Then another mixdown. Not satisfied. Scratch the re-worked vocal. Make yet another attempt at lead. He seemed happy(er) with that one. Made another mixdown. Tape put back on the shelf. More songs came along from other group members. Surf's Up released. Group goes to Nederland. Carl sees talent in Blondie. Thinks he can do better vocal on SOS, but tape in LA.  Upon returning, Blondie tracks vocal. Carl happy with performance. More commercial. Brian has little input. Carl pushes for song's inclusion on Holland album. Album's success credited to a song that is actually a left-over un-released single from earlier House Studio sessions of the Sunflower/Surf's Up era.  ...or something more like that.  ~swd
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« Reply #308 on: February 14, 2016, 06:57:28 PM »

... a hypnotizing story!
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« Reply #309 on: February 14, 2016, 07:04:16 PM »

In all seriousness, thank you so much, Stephen, for all this wonderful insightful information!  Much, much appreciated!
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« Reply #310 on: February 27, 2016, 06:03:33 AM »


My Little Red Book
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHoJx0eow68

I was surprised to find this!
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« Reply #311 on: February 27, 2016, 06:06:36 AM »


My Little Red Book
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHoJx0eow68

I was surprised to find this!

Here is a longer version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klcy1YKhI5o
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« Reply #312 on: February 27, 2016, 07:28:09 AM »

Surf's Up was a great album . . . Can you imagine a Surf's Up with Sail on Sailor, Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again, and either Lady or 4th of July?  Best Beach boys album ever?
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« Reply #313 on: February 27, 2016, 08:28:49 AM »

Brian gets into MY LITTLE RED BOOK as if that song were made for him!
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« Reply #314 on: February 27, 2016, 07:18:58 PM »

Brian gets into MY LITTLE RED BOOK as if that song were made for him!
Brian does a good job on Daddy Dear also!
He does a very good job on that! Was that ever on a bootleg even??
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« Reply #315 on: February 28, 2016, 05:45:08 AM »

Hello Stephen and greetings from Germany !

For me it was very interesting to read about "Brian´s Mellotron". I am a huge fan of the Mellotron and still use it myself. I love it and I wondered why Brian - especcially when he owned one - used it so rarely. I guess he did it only on Country air and another tune I don´t remember. Did he demos with orchestra sounds with it ? What did he with it at all and why not more ?  Around 1967 everyone who had the chance, used it. The Moody Blues, The Beatles on Strawberry fields, Magical Mystery tour and on the white album, The Stones on their satanic majesties request and so on.  And who can think of these recordings without it Huh??   It was absolutely IN then.  I guess Brian didn´t like it very much, although I have a DVD in which he praises it........
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« Reply #316 on: March 03, 2016, 01:56:16 PM »

Surf's Up was a great album . . . Can you imagine a Surf's Up with Sail on Sailor, Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again, and either Lady or 4th of July?  Best Beach boys album ever?

Hard to argue that, what with Pet Sounds, but a lineup like this one would have been exceptional in every way...

Sail on Sailor (Carl) (B.Wilson-Rieley-Kennedy-Almer-Parks)
Don’t Go Near the Water (Mike-Alan) (Love-Jardine)
Long Promised Road (Carl) (C. Wilson-Rieley)
Disney Girls (Bruce) (Johnston)
Wouldn’t It Be Nice to Live Again (Dennis) (D. Wilson)

Feel Flows (Carl) (C. Wilson-Rieley)
4th of July (Carl) (D. Wilson-Rieley)
A Day in the Life of a Tree (Jack) (B. Wilson-Rieley)
‘Til I Die (group) (B. Wilson)
Surf’s Up (Carl-Brian) (B. Wilson-Parks)
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« Reply #317 on: June 20, 2016, 09:05:45 AM »

Certainly most of the 'Bedroom Tapes' aren't very commercially viable. The 'Awake' demo, 'Where is She?' and 'California Feelin' (Demo) have already been scraped out of the can too. I'd say reissue Disk 1 of Smile Sessions in stereo where possible (or if not, remaster tracks like GV which sound murky);fly the flutes from Second Day into Love to Say Dada etc. Releasing it solely in mono was a shabby decision in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, TSS is definitely appreciable to fans in mono, but stereo mixes wouldn't be bad  Smiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUaX52GbjSU
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« Reply #318 on: June 20, 2016, 09:39:59 AM »

I think a lot of fans feel the ZILLION reissues of Pet Sounds and the multi-disc "Smile" set are enough on those fronts (some new mixes or new discoveries can be included on future archival releases, etc.). It's the 70s and 80s archival material that has barely been touched, in addition to live material from all eras, especially again the 70s and 80s (and even 90s).

Whether via a boxed set or multi-disc deluxe album reissues, it is that material that I'd rather see time and money spent on than fiddling around with more "Smile" remixes.

As far as being "commercially" feasible, not even the *actual albums* they released during the 70s and 80s were always commercially feasible. The archival stuff is all niche stuff anyway. I listen to the outtakes on "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and "Made in California" more than I do "Heroes and Villains Fourth Section Overdub, Take 37B, Alternate Saxophone Mix."

"Second Day into Love to Say Dada Flute Remix" isn't more commercially viable than "Carry Me Home" or the demo of "'Til I Die", etc.
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« Reply #319 on: June 20, 2016, 02:26:19 PM »

Their post-Smile albums deserves less attention than TSS, although I hope the piano of 'Til I Die is eventually released. Disk 1 could do with the stereo release Pet Sounds got.
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« Reply #320 on: June 20, 2016, 04:06:13 PM »

I think a lot of fans feel the ZILLION reissues of Pet Sounds and the multi-disc "Smile" set are enough on those fronts (some new mixes or new discoveries can be included on future archival releases, etc.). It's the 70s and 80s archival material that has barely been touched, in addition to live material from all eras, especially again the 70s and 80s (and even 90s).

Whether via a boxed set or multi-disc deluxe album reissues, it is that material that I'd rather see time and money spent on than fiddling around with more "Smile" remixes.

As far as being "commercially" feasible, not even the *actual albums* they released during the 70s and 80s were always commercially feasible. The archival stuff is all niche stuff anyway. I listen to the outtakes on "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and "Made in California" more than I do "Heroes and Villains Fourth Section Overdub, Take 37B, Alternate Saxophone Mix."

"Second Day into Love to Say Dada Flute Remix" isn't more commercially viable than "Carry Me Home" or the demo of "'Til I Die", etc.

Agree 100%
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« Reply #321 on: June 20, 2016, 04:44:10 PM »

I feel we now have enough Pet Sounds and Smile stuff, besides for anything new that may be surfacing! Then that should be released! Bu enough with the different mixes of the same songs!
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« Reply #322 on: June 20, 2016, 05:13:33 PM »

It seems I'm the only one here who's hoping they'll consider a stereo TSS.
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« Reply #323 on: June 20, 2016, 08:43:01 PM »

We're kind of off topic with discussion of the mono mix of Smile, but I don't like it as well.  First the mastering is very compressed, the music loses the dynamics.  This may have been done to make the transition from studio tapes into acetates less glaring but there weren't that many sections from acetate, were there?  Child had one chorus taken from acetate.  Then I don't like the "fly ins" which required some digital time manipulation to make them fit and which further degrades the sound. 

Of course we've been told Brian wanted it in mono and wanted it to match as closely as possible the structure of BWPS, but I still think it could have sounded better.
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« Reply #324 on: June 21, 2016, 07:19:38 AM »

BW had deteriorated a lot by then, their post-Smile music deserves less attention than TSS, although I'd love to hear the demo of 'Til I Die etc. Priority should be given to 'Smile' since its release was pretty lacklustre. Disk 1 needs a bit of reworking, and a sequence not just based on BWPS. I think Stephen Desper has already shunned the hype about the 'Bedroom Tapes' (although Brian just said they may be released later this year), so 'Smile' should have more consideration. In the future, would people discovering Smile appreciate it being in mono? It's one of the main criticisms of TSS.

I would tend to disagree for the most part. Brian produced a ton of excellent material post-Smile.

I have gripes here and there with mixing and mastering decisions on latter-day BB projects, but I wouldn't say the 5-disc Smile set was a "lackluster" release by any stretch. It was a huge floodgate of officially released "Smile" material. I may have preferred a few different bits here or there, but it was well done by leaps and bounds over what it would have looked like years ago (e.g. probably a 2-disc set or something).

Also, while I do have some issues with some latter-day remixes (e.g. the stereo mix of "Please Let Me Wonder"), I actually think the mixing on the mono "album" iteration of Smile is fine. I'd love to have the full thing in stereo too. But a lot of that stuff sounds inherently murky ("Do You Like Worms", etc.), so I don't have a huge beef with the mono mix, and it's certainly not something I would need to see revisited in lieu of getting more previously-unreleased material out there.

I also don't think the "album" version being in mono is drastically cutting down the number of new fans discovering the music. If someone is inclined to need something to sound "modern", then they aren't going to seek anything from that era out.

As for the "Bedroom Tapes", I think the moniker is too vague. In my mind, it basically means to lump together the stuff Brian did post-Smile and through the 70s. There's a lot of different stuff from that era. Full blown studio productions, home demos, and in between. I'm not sure what Desper specifically spoke to, but there is a TON of high quality material from the 70s (and some from the 80s) that could be released (much of it not "Brian" material, but material from other members), and I would prioritize that before re-noodling with more "Smile" mixes that few of even hardcore fans seem to be asking for.
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