Passive aggressive lyrical digs at other BB members?

[Nicko1234]

True, but Mike still green-lit the lyrics and sang them on his record. Considering how deeply the Manson incident affected Dennis personally (which was no secret to anyone in the band, and many would argue it was a major contributing factor to his decline/alcoholism which eventually led to 12/28/83), I'd say the Mike singing the lyric was to some degree a dig against Dennis. Mike's way too clever/perceptive a guy for the thought of the Mason/Dennis connection to have not for a moment crossed his mind when he read/approved/sang the lyric - wouldn't you agree? It was arguably the all-time most embarrassing/icky moment in the band's and more specifically Dennis' history.

Granted, Mike and Dennis' relationship was probably at an all time low around that time; Dennis was then (or would shortly thereafter get) involved with Mike's alleged daughter, and I doubt 1981 Mike was giving much of a sh*t if he hurt Dennis' feelings with singing a lyrical reminder of the connection... those guys pretty much loathed each other at that time, right? Whether the lyric was from the start conceived with ill-intent is very unlikely (I'd imagine it was inadvertent since you mentioned it was written by someone else), but the fact is that Mike allowed the lyric to make it to wax. Surely I'm overanalyzing this a bit, but such is what we do on this board.

A bit? 

The writers simply listed a bunch of stuff that happened in the 60s (poorly) and Mike sang them. The fact that he didn't say in the studio, 'I refuse to sing this song until you rewrite the lyrics!' is of no importance.

[CenturyDeprived]

True, but Mike still green-lit the lyrics and sang them on his record. Considering how deeply the Manson incident affected Dennis personally (which was no secret to anyone in the band, and many would argue it was a major contributing factor to his decline/alcoholism which eventually led to 12/28/83), I'd say the Mike singing the lyric was to some degree a dig against Dennis. Mike's way too clever/perceptive a guy for the thought of the Mason/Dennis connection to have not for a moment crossed his mind when he read/approved/sang the lyric - wouldn't you agree? It was arguably the all-time most embarrassing/icky moment in the band's and more specifically Dennis' history.

Granted, Mike and Dennis' relationship was probably at an all time low around that time; Dennis was then (or would shortly thereafter get) involved with Mike's alleged daughter, and I doubt 1981 Mike was giving much of a sh*t if he hurt Dennis' feelings with singing a lyrical reminder of the connection... those guys pretty much loathed each other at that time, right? Whether the lyric was from the start conceived with ill-intent is very unlikely (I'd imagine it was inadvertent since you mentioned it was written by someone else), but the fact is that Mike allowed the lyric to make it to wax. Surely I'm overanalyzing this a bit, but such is what we do on this board.

A bit?  

The writers simply listed a bunch of stuff that happened in the 60s (poorly) and Mike sang them. The fact that he didn't say in the studio, 'I refuse to sing this song until you rewrite the lyrics!' is of no importance.

IMHO... Let's just say I think Mike has a habit of casually looking the other way at his own sometimes insensitive actions/words, that could cause pain in others more sensitive than himself, ie) the emotionally-sensitive 2 eldest Wilson brothers (who everyone knew weren't/aren't exactly thick-skinned guys). I think this is a probable example of that. In an alternate universe, if the song was written as "Looking Back with Carl" for Carl to sing (bizarre thought, isn't it?), Carl would've surely realized that it would be folly to bring up the Manson murders in a song lyric - Carl would've questioned it, and made certain the lyrics were changed. Don't ya think? But these type of things just go over Mike's head, or as I believe, he allowed himself to look the other way at them - and maybe that was because of the state of his relationship with Dennis at the time.  Let's not forget that Mike was the guy who was famous for going out of his way to question the appropriateness of song lyrics for the band.

Ultimately, the song (and album itself) was so insignificant as to barely be a blip, that the lyric probably was of little importance to Dennis... maybe worth only an eye roll or curse word to his cousin under his breath if he actually heard the LP. Most people are usually in stitches after hearing "Good Vibrations" rhymed with "Assassinations", so laughter may have drowned out the Manson lyric And yes, I'm sure the typical people will jump in here to remind the world that Dennis and Brian weren't always angels  - I hope this addendum saves y'all the trouble. Not trying to derail into a bash-Mike thread, just defending my hypothesis about this particular song lyric.

[Nicko1234]

IMHO... Let's just say I think Mike has a habit of casually looking the other way at his own sometimes insensitive actions/words, that could cause pain in others more sensitive than himself, ie) the emotionally-sensitive 2 eldest Wilson brothers (who everyone knew weren't/aren't exactly thick-skinned guys). I think this is a probable example of that. In an alternate universe, if the song was written as "Looking Back with Carl" for Carl to sing (bizarre thought, isn't it?), Carl would've surely realized that it would be folly to bring up the Manson murders in a song lyric - Carl would've questioned it, and made certain the lyrics were changed. Don't ya think? But these type of things just go over Mike's head, or as I believe, he allowed himself to look the other way at them - and maybe that was because of the state of his relationship with Dennis at the time.  Let's not forget that Mike was the guy who was famous for going out of his way to question the appropriateness of song lyrics for the band.

Ultimately, the song (and album itself) was so insignificant as to barely be a blip, that the lyric probably was of little importance to Dennis... maybe worth only an eye roll or curse word to his cousin under his breath if he actually heard the LP. Most people are usually in stitches after hearing "Good Vibrations" rhymed with "Assassinations", so laughter may have drowned out the Manson lyric And yes, I'm sure the typical people will jump in here to remind the world that Dennis and Brian weren't always angels  - I hope this addendum saves y'all the trouble. Not trying to derail into a bash-Mike thread, just defending my hypothesis about this particular song lyric.

The burden of any lyric is on the songwriter. Not the singer.

[Ron]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it. 

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it. 

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

Please, please tell me you're joking. 

[filledeplage]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it. 

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

Please, please tell me you're joking. 

 

[Ron]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it. 

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

Please, please tell me you're joking. 

I'm not joking, humour me and come down off the mountain long enough to set me straight. 

Nevermind, Wikipedia was kinder to me and let me know that although the songwriting lyrics say Love/Wilson Mike wrote the lyrics himself.  So it's a passive agressive dig at himself, then. 

Funny that on a passive agressive thread, you waited until page 2 to show up AGD

[CenturyDeprived]

Here's another example that had popped into my head earlier, but I forgot to mention until now. Many might think this is completely reaching, and maybe I'm totally batsh*t crazy, but theorizing about this stuff is interesting sometimes. After all, over the years (and especially in the late 70s era of this song), the guys in this band did so many things out of spite, grudges, and passive agression, that to me, scenarios like this are maybe, just maybe remotely plausible.

The fact that in the song "Matchpoint of Our Love", Mike Love wrote a lyric (that he knew Brian was going to sing),  "and though no one's to blame"... Could this may be be interpreted as Mike deflecting blame from any number of things that he was getting blamed for in the band?

And then, could the lyric "Love is still the only game in town" be interpreted to mean Mike was proclaiming his intended reinstatement as Brian's main lyricist?

The hypothetical passive aggressive maneuver would be: if those were actually the intended ulterior meanings behind the lyrics that Brian sang, without Brian being made aware of them, since at the surface the song is only a boy/girl love song. Which it may in fact only be. I'm willing to admit that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...But nonetheless, this is my theory of a remote possibility. I'm not expecting a single person to agree with it though

[Andrew G. Doe]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it. 

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

Please, please tell me you're joking. 

I'm not joking, humour me and come down off the mountain long enough to set me straight. 

Nevermind, Wikipedia was kinder to me and let me know that although the songwriting lyrics say Love/Wilson Mike wrote the lyrics himself.  So it's a passive agressive dig at himself, then. 

Funny that on a passive agressive thread, you waited until page 2 to show up AGD

I was serious - that anyone posting here, or even merely in possession of the most basic best of album, didn't know that Mike wrote the lyrics is, frankly, so inconceivable that it had to be a joke. There's roughly one million ways you could have checked that info before posting, thus the inescapable assumption is that you did it to elicit a response. In the circumstances, and given my new "peaceful Perce" persona, I fell my reply was unusually restrained. 

[Ron]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it. 

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

Please, please tell me you're joking. 

I'm not joking, humour me and come down off the mountain long enough to set me straight. 

Nevermind, Wikipedia was kinder to me and let me know that although the songwriting lyrics say Love/Wilson Mike wrote the lyrics himself.  So it's a passive agressive dig at himself, then. 

Funny that on a passive agressive thread, you waited until page 2 to show up AGD

I was serious - that anyone posting here, or even merely in possession of the most basic best of album, didn't know that Mike wrote the lyrics is, frankly, so inconceivable that it had to be a joke. There's roughly one million ways you could have checked that info before posting, thus the inescapable assumption is that you did it to elicit a response. In the circumstances, and given my new "peaceful Perce" persona, I fell my reply was unusually restrained. 

True.  Now instead of acting like an asshole, you just act like an asshole who's faking it.  Stop being a dick.  It doesn't become you well. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Evidently someone doesn't want to be able to post here for a while.

[feelsflow]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it.  

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

Please, please tell me you're joking.  

I'm not joking, humour me and come down off the mountain long enough to set me straight.  

Nevermind, Wikipedia was kinder to me and let me know that although the songwriting lyrics say Love/Wilson Mike wrote the lyrics himself.  So it's a passive agressive dig at himself, then.  

Funny that on a passive agressive thread, you waited until page 2 to show up AGD

I was serious - that anyone posting here, or even merely in possession of the most basic best of album, didn't know that Mike wrote the lyrics is, frankly, so inconceivable that it had to be a joke. There's roughly one million ways you could have checked that info before posting, thus the inescapable assumption is that you did it to elicit a response. In the circumstances, and given my new "peaceful Perce" persona, I fell my reply was unusually restrained.  

True.  Now instead of acting like an asshole, you just act like an asshole who's faking it.  Stop being a dick.  It doesn't become you well.  

Calm down Ron, Andrew is doing the best he can in these "Sunshine for Jesus" Days we are now in.  Go to the Hollies Thread...I left you a "helpful correction" in the nicest way I know, and even had a go at correcting "someone who should know better."

[Andrew G. Doe]

Serious question, Ron: how long have you been a Beach Boys fan ?

[filledeplage]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it. 

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

Ron - the hallmark of Mike's lyrics is that they, for the most part, are straightforward and literal.  Do It Again could not be more literal. This is not layered literary analysis or subversive political writing.  They are concrete and self-explanatory. 

If I didn't know better, I would guess that someone in a music/psych course was looking for some thesis to develop...for a term paper or project.

[LeeDempsey]

Back on topic...

"Back Home" -- AGD or Jim, how does the date of the writing of "Back Home" by Brian and Bob Norberg line up with Al's time in Ohio?  Had Al returned to California by then?  I mean, they could have picked any Midwestern state to put in the lyrics, but they picked Al's home state.  Passive-aggressive (or tongue-in-cheek) dig at Al?

Lee

[D Cunningham]

Lee, nice point.  Although I would add to your "or"s... rather than passive-aggressive it might have been
active-agreeable.
 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Back on topic...

"Back Home" -- AGD or Jim, how does the date of the writing of "Back Home" by Brian and Bob Norberg line up with Al's time in Ohio?  Had Al returned to California by then?  I mean, they could have picked any Midwestern state to put in the lyrics, but they picked Al's home state.  Passive-aggressive (or tongue-in-cheek) dig at Al?

Lee

Lee... Alan never left California, or even LA, when he quit the band in February 1962. He was, according to Gary Winfrey, working for an aircraft company, probably Garret AiResearch. He returned to Ohio in 1960, as established by Brad Elliot and myself back in, oh, 2000 or thereabouts.

[Cam Mott]

Another song that would maybe be considered a "dig" could be "She's Going Bald", against Mike... I realize the song is credited to Wilson/Parks/Love (and yes, I know that Mike sings on it), and not sure if Mike, Brian or Van suggested the initial subject matter.  

But, if perhaps Brian suggested to do a song about baldness (even if it was under the guise of a funny, psychedelic/bizarre subject, further obfuscated by it being about a girl), it would not surprise me if the song was a subliminal dig against the Lovester, who was someone that Brian surely had some brewing issues with at the time.

Until your topic, I never realized what a jerk Brian is according to all the digs in song you ascribe to him.

[CenturyDeprived]

Another song that would maybe be considered a "dig" could be "She's Going Bald", against Mike... I realize the song is credited to Wilson/Parks/Love (and yes, I know that Mike sings on it), and not sure if Mike, Brian or Van suggested the initial subject matter.  

But, if perhaps Brian suggested to do a song about baldness (even if it was under the guise of a funny, psychedelic/bizarre subject, further obfuscated by it being about a girl), it would not surprise me if the song was a subliminal dig against the Lovester, who was someone that Brian surely had some brewing issues with at the time.

Until your topic, I never realized what a jerk Brian is according to all the digs in song you ascribe to him.

Umm...glad I could help in that department.   I simply created the topic to discuss lyrics that might be interpreted as digs, because I find possible subtext in BB songs to be interesting; my purpose was not to paint band members out as "jerks", but that being said, people on this board have a right to call out what they view as BB bandmember jerk moves as such, if they want to. Some of us may feel that certain instances of lyrical digs are worse or more/less justified than others. It's all just opinion anyway, and you're entitled to yours, unless you are being sarcastic.

There was lots of bad stuff/emotions bubbling under the surface interpersonally with these guys for decades - that's something no BB historian would have much argument with... so, it stands to reason that various members would have had some lyrics here and there which could be interpreted as digs at each other.

[LeeDempsey]

Back on topic...

"Back Home" -- AGD or Jim, how does the date of the writing of "Back Home" by Brian and Bob Norberg line up with Al's time in Ohio?  Had Al returned to California by then?  I mean, they could have picked any Midwestern state to put in the lyrics, but they picked Al's home state.  Passive-aggressive (or tongue-in-cheek) dig at Al?

Lee

Lee... Alan never left California, or even LA, when he quit the band in February 1962. He was, according to Gary Winfrey, working for an aircraft company, probably Garret AiResearch. He returned to Ohio in 1960, as established by Brad Elliot and myself back in, oh, 2000 or thereabouts.

Well, then, back off topic...

So have we determined that Al's own mom was incorrect?  From Chuck Harter's interview in the December 1995 issue of ESQ:

ESQ: Somewhere in early 1962, the story goes, Al decided the group wasn’t happening, and he decided to go to dental school.

VIRGINIA JARDINE: He didn’t do it for that reason.  No.

ESQ: So how did he end up deciding to leave the group and go to dental school?

VIRGINIA JARDINE: He didn’t.  No, no, uh-uh.  He didn’t go to dental school.  We moved.  We moved to Big Rapids, Michigan.  That’s how he got removed from the group.  We left the city.  We wanted Al to come with us.  He didn’t want to leave, he was happy where he was.  So he got this football scholarship at Pepperdine.  He decided to stay there and use the scholarship.  But I don’t know… he hitchhiked across, hitchhiked to join us in Big Rapids.

ESQ: Really?

VIRGINIA JARDINE: Really.  That’s how he got there.  He joined us and went to college in Big Rapids.  And he made A’s and B’s and made the Dean’s List.

ESQ: Was Al at all frustrated that year when he was gone and he started seeing “Surfin’ Safari” go up the charts?

VIRGINIA JARDINE: No, no, he had his own little band in Michigan.  He was busy…


So Al didn't go to Ohio in 1962, but according to his mom he did go to Michigan.  Or was she remembering their 1960 move?  "Well I'm going back this summer to Big Rapids..."

Lee

[Andrew G. Doe]

Yes, Virginia was incorrect: Brad and I had the same idea on the same day, almost the same hour, in that we did what no-one thought to do for some 40-odd years and contact Ferris U, asking if and when one Alan Charles Jardine was attending, and the answer came back, 1960-61.

As for in 1962-63, check out this, according to Gary Winfrey's recall:

In the beginning...

[joshferrell]

Mike come back to L.A. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Almost the entire song "Do It Again" in my opinion is a passive agressive dig at Mike, who then sang lead on it.  

I wonder if Mike wrote the lyrics, though?

Please, please tell me you're joking.  

Funny that on a passive agressive thread, you waited until page 2 to show up AGD

Very clever Ron  

Post of the Week-enjoyed your award winning post!

[Joel Goldenberg]

I think the biggest digs come from Brian against those around him in Guess I'm Dumb.

The way I act don't seem like me
I'm not on top like I used to be
I'll give in when I know I should be strong
I still give in even though I know it's wrong, know it's wrong
I guess I'm dumb but I don't care

[Andrew G. Doe]

"Hang On To Your Ego", "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times".