New article on Dennis

[Ed Roach]

Surprised nobody has posted this yet:    http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/dec/31/dennis-wilson-rocks-backpages

[Moon Dawg]

  Great article, great poem.

[Mr. Wilson]

Thank You ED

[retrokid67]

The part about him crying over POB was really sad  .  I wish someone would've been willing to listen, that was one heck of an album.....jerks 

[Ed Roach]

oops!  New 'old' article...  I had such tears in my eyes reading this that it took Howie to point out to me that it was written in '08.  I had only looked at The Guardian date of Tuesday 31 December 2013.  Still a great article, but wanted to mention that I had missed that it's a few years old

[messofhelp]

New to the board as a poster and just slightly pertaining to DW; on holiday in California last year and found we had booked into a hotel opposite a somehow strangely familiar sounding bar called ..Chez Jay. Changed the whole mindset of my stay.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The part about him crying over POB was really sad  .  I wish someone would've been willing to listen, that was one heck of an album.....jerks 

Enough folk listened to buy 200,000 copies in 1977 and send it to #96 in the Billboard Top 200 Album Chart. I think the tears were more over lack of band support (the proposed mini promo tour) than the actual impact of the album.

[c-man]

Thanks, Ed...always great to read something like this.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

 "No one listened," he moans, "not even my brothers."

Heart breaking.

[retrokid67]

The part about him crying over POB was really sad  .  I wish someone would've been willing to listen, that was one heck of an album.....jerks 

Enough folk listened to buy 200,000 copies in 1977 and send it to #96 in the Billboard Top 200 Album Chart. I think the tears were more over lack of band support (the proposed mini promo tour) than the actual impact of the album.

Uh huh that's what I was talkin about they were jerks to him about that album and they shouldn't have been 

[Don Malcolm]

Welcone, messofhelp, anyone with that handle is most welcome in my book!!

Great article, Ed...had not seen it. Bill Bentley is a powerful writer; this is a really affecting piece.

And he has a quote from Brian that I'd not seen before but that really sums things up so beautifully:

"He might have looked out a different window than me and Carl," says Brian Wilson today, "but he had the biggest view. I loved him so much."

Now THAT's a classic example of BW insight, IMO.

And Bill's closing line (before the poem) is one that any writer would wish to have written:

"Life isn't for everyone, it's said, but for so many years, Dennis Wilson lived his like he had invented his own dream."

Great stuff. Thanks again, Ed!

[KittyKat]

The part about him crying over POB was really sad  .  I wish someone would've been willing to listen, that was one heck of an album.....jerks 

Not liking an album doesn't make anyone a "jerk." I'm not a huge fan of it myself. No one owes anyone anything and Dennis got a lot more people to listen to his album, by virtue of being a Beach Boy, than a lot of struggling, unknown artists.

As for lack of support by the Beach Boys for a Dennis solo tour, I've read that Dennis wanted to tour with a huge, expensive band.  Maybe if he would have attempted something smaller, or did a few test gigs in the LA area first, he may have gotten more support for a tour. Also, weren't record labels funding tours back in those days? In other words, it would have been Dennis's label that didn't give him the financial support for the tour. The Beach Boys had no obligation to help a Dennis solo tour, as they had no obligation to support solo tours for Brian, Mike, Al, or Carl. Carl managed to do some touring and live performing without any support from the Beach Boys.

[retrokid67]

The part about him crying over POB was really sad  .  I wish someone would've been willing to listen, that was one heck of an album.....jerks 

Not liking an album doesn't make anyone a "jerk." I'm not a huge fan of it myself. No one owes anyone anything and Dennis got a lot more people to listen to his album, by virtue of being a Beach Boy, than a lot of struggling, unknown artists.

As for lack of support by the Beach Boys for a Dennis solo tour, I've read that Dennis wanted to tour with a huge, expensive band.  Maybe if he would have attempted something smaller, or did a few test gigs in the LA area first, he may have gotten more support for a tour. Also, weren't record labels funding tours back in those days? In other words, it would have been Dennis's label that didn't give him the financial support for the tour. The Beach Boys had no obligation to help a Dennis solo tour, as they had no obligation to support solo tours for Brian, Mike, Al, or Carl. Carl managed to do some touring and live performing without any support from the Beach Boys.

Maybe it's not your taste but the guys were always willing to uplift Brian's work but it seems they didn't want to give Denny's stuff a fair chance and the people who were around at the time have noted that they were jealous of it, particularly Mike Love and Al Jardine.   

[LostArt]

Correct me if I'm wrong ( ), but wasn't Carl going to be part of the touring band supporting Dennis?

[Sheriff John Stone]

....but it seems they didn't want to give Denny's stuff a fair chance and the people who were around at the time have noted that they were jealous of it, particularly Mike Love and Al Jardine.   

"No one listened," he moans, "not even my brothers."

Not even my BROTHERS.

[retrokid67]

....but it seems they didn't want to give Denny's stuff a fair chance and the people who were around at the time have noted that they were jealous of it, particularly Mike Love and Al Jardine.   

"No one listened," he moans, "not even my brothers."

Not even my BROTHERS.

Carl gave POB a mention at the 1978 Melbourne concert though  .  but his brothers should've been there for him too  .  But the most I've read about the jealousy for that album was about Mike and Al though.  Brian would be at his worst shape but they would still try to uplift his work, they didn't do that for Denny back then (unless someone can prove me wrong  )

[Jason]

Brian is on record saying that he never knew Dennis recorded Pacific Ocean Blue. This flies in the face of previous "knowledge" of his alleged praise for the record. The band's management (probably working from the Brian/Michael/Al faction's voting record) told Dennis that his future in the Beach Boys would be that of a former member if he started the solo tour in late 1977.

[KittyKat]

Why wouldn't they replace him in the band if he went on a solo tour that likely conflicted with Beach Boys' dates? He could either be a Beach Boy, who were touring heavily at the time, or have a solo career. That's how the music business works. Even Carl left the band when he toured as a solo, and Carl was arguably a more crucial member of the group than Dennis, being a co-lead singer. Dennis was talking in the mode of someone full of alcohol in that interview. The writer is trying to make it sound like the "rejection" of PBO was the reason Dennis was alcoholic and in a bad state. When he likely would have been that way even if he had gotten what he wanted.

[SloopJohnnyB]

Rolling Stone magazine published a really nice review of Pacific Ocean Blue. He had the music critics on his side. It sounds like Dennis would rather have had his (Beach Boys) family's approval and encouragement instead. Apparently he didn't which is tragic and sad.

I'm a fan of Mike Love's Celebration band. To let Mike go and do that project and not let Dennis tour and promote his album was just terrible. How would anyone feel if that happened.

A successful tour and acceptance of Dennis and POB could have opened many doors. If would most certainly helped Dennis's self-esteem. Maybe the hard partying would have slowed down and stopped. Well.....maybe.

I try not to take sides with this band. Listen to the music and enjoy.

[retrokid67]

Rolling Stone magazine published a really nice review of Pacific Ocean Blue. He had the music critics on his side. It sounds like Dennis would rather have had his (Beach Boys) family's approval and encouragement instead. Apparently he didn't which is tragic and sad.

I'm a fan of Mike Love's Celebration band. To let Mike go and do that project and not let Dennis tour and promote his album was just terrible. How would anyone feel if that happened.

A successful tour and acceptance of Dennis and POB could have opened many doors. If would most certainly helped Dennis's self-esteem. Maybe the hard partying would have slowed down and stopped. Well.....maybe.

I try not to take sides with this band. Listen to the music and enjoy.

 

[Mike's Beard]

I wonder if the idea for Dennis to support the Beach Boys as an opening act was ever floated? There are obvious pros and cons to such a solution but the biggest plus would have been had Dennis really been serious about presenting his songs to the masses, then it would have required him to show up on time, sober and willing to put in the legwork of rehearsal and soundcheck. It might have motivated him to get his sh*t together.

[Pretty Funky]

....but it seems they didn't want to give Denny's stuff a fair chance and the people who were around at the time have noted that they were jealous of it, particularly Mike Love and Al Jardine.   

"No one listened," he moans, "not even my brothers."

Not even my BROTHERS.

Brian and to a certain extent, Carls musical tastes were pretty much set by the late 70s when Dennis recorded POB. While I feel sorry for him, the fact he is your brother doesn't mean you have to like or listen to his music. My own brothers musical tastes were worlds apart at that time and still are today.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm a fan of Mike Love's Celebration band. To let Mike go and do that project and not let Dennis tour and promote his album was just terrible. How would anyone feel if that happened.

Which is one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, why I personally do not believe that Dennis was given an ultimatum about his proposed "tour".

It makes no sense. Supposedly The Beach Boys' didn't want Dennis' songs on their albums (which factually is not true). There were better drummers available for touring such as Bobby Figueroa. Dennis' behavior - such as criticizing the band's new albums in the press - made him a liabilty. He was an alcoholic and drug addict which was an image the group did not welcome, especially with Brian's well-documented problems. Around that time, Dennis sang lead on a grand total of one song, "You Are So Beautiful" (his 15 second tag on "It's OK" was sporadic). Many times when The Beach Boys performed a new song, Dennis left the stage. Mike was able to do Celebration and Carl was able to do two solo albums, and still be welcomed as Beach Boys, but not Dennis? Who was more valuable?

I admit that I'm stubborn about this issue, and any friends', acquaintances', or hangers on's stories aren't going to change my mind on the issue. Minutes from meetings would be nice. You would think that something that important - dictating a band member's career moves - would be documented. I mean, from everything we do know about Dennis' behavior during that time frame (1977-78), you would think Mike Love would personally hire a driver, bus, and sound crew to make sure Dennis' tour came off with no hitches.

I saw The Beach Boys with Dennis a few times in the 1978-83 time frame. While, yes, Dennis still maintained some stage presence and charisma, it wasn't The Beach Boys with the good looking drummer, Denny Wilson, anymore. Again, Dennis contributed nothing vocally, the girls weren't screaming and pushing people out of the way to get to him, his drumming was inconsistent, and frankly, musically, the shows were tighter without him. Yes, it was cool if Dennis came out to the front of the stage to introduce a song, or played one song at the piano, or yelled an inappropriate comment through his microphone, or croaked "You Are So Beautiful". And, I'm not saying that I preferred The Beach Boys without him. What I am saying, in my opinion, is that what Dennis was contributing onstage at that particular time (1977-78), wouldn't be substantially missed, and I find it hard to believe the guys would put up such a stink if Dennis wanted to, um, leave for a few weeks.

[Pretty Funky]

I became a fan in 78 and of course this was pre-net so I relied on magazine stories like most. The behind the scenes details were probably the hardest to find anything on, but would it be possible that Dennis may not have survived a solo tour and the Beach Boys wanted to keep a watch full eye on him? Think about it. Dennis probably would have chosen the musicians, tour personnel and assorted hangers on. A dangerous cocktail.

Would Brother or another label have to provide money in advance to get a tour underway, and if it fell apart mid tour, could Dennis pay it back?

[retrokid67]

how come with the BB he couldn't just sing one of his own songs, and only did "You Are So Beautiful", was it because it was long enough for him to be up front to satisfy the fans and short enough where in his drunken state wouldn't have time to do anything stupid or what?    Because the only live version of River Song that I've heard is the one where Blondie sang lead  And Carl got to sing his solo songs in the 1983 shows