Mike and Dennis

[retrokid67]

I find it odd that even though Mike and Denny couldn't stand each other 90% of the time you'd find them standing next each other in a picture or on stage.  Is it the whole deal with keep your friends close and your enemies closer or what?  I mean I know that they loved each other but I'm just curious.  I haven't read any books about them yet up to this point but that'll change in a few hours from now  .  I'm anxious to finding out more about their relationship. for anyone who read the new book could you give me a sneak preview of what to expect?

[punkinhead]

I find it odd that even though Mike and Denny couldn't stand each other 90% of the time you'd find them standing next each other in a picture or on stage.  Is it the whole deal with keep your friends close and your enemies closer or what?  I mean I know that they loved each other but I'm just curious.  I haven't read any books about them yet up to this point but that'll change in a few hours from now  .  I'm anxious to finding out more about their relationship. for anyone who read the new book could you give me a sneak preview of what to expect?

Which new book?
They had a lot in common back in the day, I believe- surfed, cruised, and tried picking up ladies together.

That's all I can think of except their collaboration throughout the 70s

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I find it odd that even though Mike and Denny couldn't stand each other 90% of the time you'd find them standing next each other in a picture or on stage.  Is it the whole deal with keep your friends close and your enemies closer or what?  I mean I know that they loved each other but I'm just curious.  I haven't read any books about them yet up to this point but that'll change in a few hours from now  .  I'm anxious to finding out more about their relationship. for anyone who read the new book could you give me a sneak preview of what to expect?

Which new book?
They had a lot in common back in the day, I believe- surfed, cruised, and tried picking up ladies together.

That's all I can think of except their collaboration throughout the 70s

I don't think their "hating each other period" really was any sort of a reality until maybe the last few years of Dennis' life. Until then it was probably a mutual love of being Beach Boys, family respect/love even with all the drama, and some healthy competition by two guys who thought they were both the hot guys in the band ;P

[Cam Mott]

I imagine it was like most families where one is self destructive and the rest don't want them to self destruct. Very complicated and frustrated.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think that Mike loved the whole "Beach Boys thing" so much - the recording, the touring, the money, the women, the status - that he would do everything possible to keep it going, which included putting up with a lot of sh-- for a lot of years.

Yes, Mike himself contributed to some of the group's problems. But, it must've been incredibly frustrating and painful to be in a group/band with Dennis and Brian Wilson. I think it came to a breaking point, which was after the Beach Boys got a second chance, a second life, with Endless Summer, and proceeded to blow it - again. I think that Mike finally had enough and started to take more of a stand against certain behaviors, at least when those behaviors affected The Beach Boys.

[urbanite]

Dennis became dysfunctional at some point, and a drag on the show.  I attended a show where he came out on stage drunk and acted like a buffoon.  It would have been better if he had been fired earlier.  No one who likes to work wants to be around a drunk or an addict.

[Mr. Wilson]

I agree 100% with Sheriff John Stone.. His post said it all, especially  if anyone here has ever been in a band you would understand ..

[CenturyDeprived]

I think that Mike loved the whole "Beach Boys thing" so much - the recording, the touring, the money, the women, the status - that he would do everything possible to keep it going, which included putting up with a lot of sh-- for a lot of years.

Yes, Mike himself contributed to some of the group's problems. But, it must've been incredibly frustrating and painful to be in a group/band with Dennis and Brian Wilson. I think it came to a breaking point, which was after the Beach Boys got a second chance, a second life, with Endless Summer, and proceeded to blow it - again. I think that Mike finally had enough and started to take more of a stand against certain behaviors, at least when those behaviors affected The Beach Boys.

Would it be fair to say that as the '70s went on, Dennis came to blame Mike more and more for the band’s post-Holland artistic stagnation, and for their artistic growth slowing to a halt post-Holland?  Obviously, there were in fact many factors and culprits beyond Mike, but I’d imagine that Dennis began to view Mike in a “villain” light, and to epitomize most everything that was wrong with the band, even if this was an oversimplified view. I can’t imagine all the drugs/booze were helping Dennis see the full situation in a fully nuanced/clear light. This is just my outside observation/hunch.

As much as Mike surely felt that Dennis’ awful behaviors brought on by his addictions were helping the band to blow their 2nd chance at success, I imagine that Dennis was simultaneously feeling that Mike was the biggest reason (and cheerleader for) the band artistically regressing to aping their past sounds/musical styles... and the band's artistic regression is a factor which I believe helped lead Denny to be very depressed (and further self-destructive).  Ultimately, I think that both men grew to be very upset and deeply, deeply resentful of each other for those opposing factors.

IMO, it would seem to me that the growing disdain between the two of them, and the further degradation of their relationship, was largely based on those non- compatible views they had about those 2 particular issues. Still, they were family, and it would seem (from photographic evidence from the late 70s/early 80s, for whatever can be derived from the pictures) that the two men still tried to be cool to each other, and to love each other in whatever ways they could in that situation, even if they still eventually wound up at each others’ throats.

One thing seems sure: if they hadn’t been related, I can’t imagine either Dennis or Mike tolerating the other as bandmates for as long as they did. If Al Jardine had been the hunky sex symbol of the band, he'd still surely have been kicked out of the band much sooner if he had gone down the Denny route. Seems to me that Denny being related wound up inadvertently leading his bandmates to become enablers, by giving him too many second chances to get clean. So sad.

[Surfer]

Hold on here!  Dennis and Mike did not hate each other when there were kids and when they got holder they went Surfin and formed the Beach Boys then in the late 70's then they hated each other after that

[retrokid67]

Yea from what I gather I feel that Mike, Al and Bruce were morally right, but the Wilson brothers musically were right.  Denny wasn't taken seriously when he started to fill in Brian's shoes and  the jealousy that came with that ( the dumb blonde heart throb surfer boy is now the new key song writer and now movie star)didn't help matters either.  I wish that Denny had been more self confident with his own music as much as he was with getting the girls

[retrokid67]

Oh the book I was referring to was "The Beach Boys In Concert" 

[Jon Stebbins]

Oh the book I was referring to was "The Beach Boys In Concert" 

Reading that book will give you a very good look into how the relationship between Mike and Dennis evolved through the years. You'll (hopefully) get a fair understanding of how they grew apart philosophically (and emotionally), but how they also remained connected as family members and business partners... it's complicated, but reading about it in a year by year chronology gives some essential perspective and context.

[retrokid67]

thanks everyone and Mr. Stebbins I can't wait to read it and I'm glad I caught because I wanted to ask if Denny sang harmony on "I'll Be Home For Christmas"?  i'ts my favorite Christmas song on their album.  and this time I swear I won't post that question again  I'm annoying myself.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

thanks everyone and Mr. Stebbins I can't wait to read it and I'm glad I caught because I wanted to ask if Denny sang harmony on "I'll Be Home For Christmas"?  i'ts my favorite Christmas song on their album.  and this time I swear I won't post that question again  I'm annoying myself.

LOL. Wish I could answer that question for you retro, but I honestly don't know.  Anyhow, I hope everyone here has a Merry Christmas.

[Moon Dawg]

  Dennis's first wife had previously dated Mike. Dennis had a fling with one of Mike's wives. None of that stuff helped the relationship I'd guess.

[retrokid67]

Ooh wow I never new about that....LOL that alone shows there WAS No competition!  how could mike think of himself as the stud, he looked like an old man when he was 20 lol

[Andrew G. Doe]

Plus... Dennis married Mike's illegitimate daughter.

[Moon Dawg]

 By which time an already tattered relationship was hanging by the last thread. Not a great move by Dennis from any angle really.

 Dennis seemed to hold Mike most responsible for albums like MIU and KEEPIN' THE SUMMER ALIVE, sessions for which he was generally MIA. Although well represented on LA, I doubt Mike and Dennis had any involvement with each other's sessions by that time. Any projected new Beach Boys records circa 1981-83 would have likely kept Dennis at arms length, although a tune as good as "Love Remember Me" might have been welcomed by the rest of the band.

 As for Mike, why in the heck didn't "Goin' to the Beach" make the cut for KTSA?? Better than at least 60% of that album in my view.

[Andrew G. Doe]

As for Mike, why in the heck didn't "Goin' to the Beach" make the cut for KTSA?? Better than at least 60% of that album in my view.

I'm guessing the producer said "no".

[Cam Mott]

As for Mike, why in the heck didn't "Goin' to the Beach" make the cut for KTSA?? Better than at least 60% of that album in my view.

I'm guessing the producer said "no".

Excellent point.

[Cam Mott]

Plus... Dennis married Mike's illegitimate daughter.

Was it ever shown she was Mike's child beyond having sympathetic blood type?

[CenturyDeprived]

Plus... Dennis married Mike's illegitimate daughter.

Was it ever shown she was Mike's child beyond having sympathetic blood type?

Shawn Love certainly looked a hell of a lot like Mike. Not that looking like someone means for sure they are related, but it would be very surprising to me if they weren't father/daughter. Kind of like the young lady who in recent years emerged as Denny's youngest daughter. Strong family resemblance with the Wilsons (and their kids) and the Loves (and their kids). Modern DNA tests would certainly have answered the question.

Did the Mike-Shawn paternity issue just get swept under the rug and never acknowledged/dealt with after she married Dennis? Not that it's exactly the public's business... but we are curious BB superfans.

[Sam_BFC]

Plus... Dennis married Mike's illegitimate daughter.

Mike has always been adamant that Shawn was not his daughter right?  With that in mind, although it may be naive, one would wonder why Mike would have had any issue with the Dennis/Shawn marriage.

[Moon Dawg]

As for Mike, why in the heck didn't "Goin' to the Beach" make the cut for KTSA?? Better than at least 60% of that album in my view.

I'm guessing the producer said "no".

 You trying to tell me Mike couldn't overrule Bruce?

 When Mike says  "Jump!" Bruce replies "Might as well."

[PaulTMA]

Plus... Dennis married Mike's illegitimate daughter.

Was it ever shown she was Mike's child beyond having sympathetic blood type?

Dennis did it for the mega lolz.