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Author Topic: The Big Beat 1963  (Read 65828 times)
bgas
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« Reply #350 on: February 02, 2014, 11:32:05 AM »

The booklet used for the 1970s repro belonged to a UK fan, and was a finished copy, not a proof. I got to see and handle it on several occasions and, rusty staples aside, it was in immaculate condition. The fan in question also had a "finished" sleeve.

I say "finished" because, excepting maybe ten art dept. mockups, no completed sleeves ever existed. Couldn't, as the back slick was never printed up like the front slick. The layout of the back slick wasn't finalised and, as a monochrome print, it would have (literally) taken one quarter of the time it took to produce the front cover.

Regarding the cover pictured in this thread, given the image and the references, it looks like the display featured several albums, and that the Smile one was cut out from it. Question - how big is the cover pictured in this thread ?

  I just spoke to Phil, and he says it's album size, and is indeed printed on the cardboard( he said  it couldn't be peeled off). 
(Phil also has a NEAT BBs Striped shirt that he said was given to him when he and some pals met the BBs upon their arrival at the airport)
 Maybe he'll come around sometime and post about it....  Neat story
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« Reply #351 on: February 02, 2014, 06:20:13 PM »

edit: edit
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« Reply #352 on: February 02, 2014, 10:28:07 PM »

  I just spoke to Phil, and he says it's album size, and is indeed printed on the cardboard( he said  it couldn't be peeled off). 

Ah, so it was part of the display mentioned on the salesmens promo disc and not a dedicated Smile piece. Prolly a lot like the one in the pic of Brian w/Earl Leaf pushing Teen Set #1(except that one was all BB albums). Thanks for that, much appreciated.
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« Reply #353 on: February 03, 2014, 07:17:29 AM »

  I just spoke to Phil, and he says it's album size, and is indeed printed on the cardboard( he said  it couldn't be peeled off). 

Ah, so it was part of the display mentioned on the salesmens promo disc and not a dedicated Smile piece. Prolly a lot like the one in the pic of Brian w/Earl Leaf pushing Teen Set #1(except that one was all BB albums). Thanks for that, much appreciated.


And I'd bet dollars to donuts it's from the very same multi-album display piece seen in Pasadena that was described in LLVS, and here:

Fascinating, terrific photo of the Smile cardboard...it does seem printed directly on the cardboard. There is precedent of Smile promotional material, both in-store standup type and a poster with that cover.

I knew I had read about similar stories, in fact one experience almost exactly like Jim Murphy's New York record shop only happening in Pasadena.

I have an original copy of LLVS, in that version turn to pages 9 and 10...One story printed there is someone who used to volunteer at a record shop in Pasadena, saw the store display at a shop called "Duford And Kaiser" (or was the shop located at Duford and Kaiser??? I'm not familiar with Pasadena), and asked the owner for the display. The owner told him to go to the distributor "on San Fernando Road" and ask them for one. Apparently he did not get one, because the piece says the next time the narrator saw the cover image was in the Leaf book.

The display was the new group of Capitol releases to come out that Christmas in 1966.

On page 10, reprinted is what is labeled as a page "from Bill Earl's diary 1966-67", dated April 15 1967. It tells of going to Pasadena, "Discount Records Center", buying Kind Of A Drag and Walk Away Renee (man, what a great freakin year for pop records... Smiley ), and the guy at the store gave him a "big Capitol Records poster" with the Smile cover featured.

So in December 1966 we have reports of an in-store display, and a promotional poster both with the Holmes artwork cover.

Perhaps the Smile cardboard in the photo above was cut from a larger display along the lines of what that narrator reported asking for in Pasadena in December 1966. And the reply from the shop owner suggests these were in fact given out to area shops on a larger scale from *his* distributor.


So all that's left to find is the corresponding promo poster that Bill Earl got on his shopping trip in April 1967.  Smiley

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« Reply #354 on: February 03, 2014, 08:46:45 AM »

I love it when a plan comes together...  Grin

I also love the smell of napalm in the morning... but that's not important right now.  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #355 on: February 03, 2014, 08:51:33 AM »

I love it when a plan comes together...  Grin

I also love the smell of napalm in the morning... but that's not important right now.  Roll Eyes

I see a new avatar in the future... Grin

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« Reply #356 on: February 03, 2014, 08:57:46 AM »

I love it when a pancake comes together… but that's not the issue here…
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« Reply #357 on: February 03, 2014, 09:01:43 AM »

  I just spoke to Phil, and he says it's album size, and is indeed printed on the cardboard( he said  it couldn't be peeled off). 

Ah, so it was part of the display mentioned on the salesmens promo disc and not a dedicated Smile piece. Prolly a lot like the one in the pic of Brian w/Earl Leaf pushing Teen Set #1(except that one was all BB albums). Thanks for that, much appreciated.


And I'd bet dollars to donuts it's from the very same multi-album display piece seen in Pasadena that was described in LLVS, and here:

Fascinating, terrific photo of the Smile cardboard...it does seem printed directly on the cardboard. There is precedent of Smile promotional material, both in-store standup type and a poster with that cover.

I knew I had read about similar stories, in fact one experience almost exactly like Jim Murphy's New York record shop only happening in Pasadena.

I have an original copy of LLVS, in that version turn to pages 9 and 10...One story printed there is someone who used to volunteer at a record shop in Pasadena, saw the store display at a shop called "Duford And Kaiser" (or was the shop located at Duford and Kaiser??? I'm not familiar with Pasadena), and asked the owner for the display. The owner told him to go to the distributor "on San Fernando Road" and ask them for one. Apparently he did not get one, because the piece says the next time the narrator saw the cover image was in the Leaf book.

The display was the new group of Capitol releases to come out that Christmas in 1966.

On page 10, reprinted is what is labeled as a page "from Bill Earl's diary 1966-67", dated April 15 1967. It tells of going to Pasadena, "Discount Records Center", buying Kind Of A Drag and Walk Away Renee (man, what a great freakin year for pop records... Smiley ), and the guy at the store gave him a "big Capitol Records poster" with the Smile cover featured.

So in December 1966 we have reports of an in-store display, and a promotional poster both with the Holmes artwork cover.

Perhaps the Smile cardboard in the photo above was cut from a larger display along the lines of what that narrator reported asking for in Pasadena in December 1966. And the reply from the shop owner suggests these were in fact given out to area shops on a larger scale from *his* distributor.


So all that's left to find is the corresponding promo poster that Bill Earl got on his shopping trip in April 1967.  Smiley



So, All we have to do is find Bill Earl?  Where's Dom for his contact info? 
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« Reply #358 on: February 03, 2014, 09:07:00 AM »

It would be great to get even a photo of the poster, just so we know what the item is/was and to add to the list of Smile items. I'm actually surprised in light of the massive research and collecting that has gone into the Smile Sessions box set and other projects that it was never photographed or copied and reproduced since it's been known to exist for decades.

I'd think such an item would be as important or even as iconic as the "Look Listen..." magazine ad.
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« Reply #359 on: February 03, 2014, 09:26:34 AM »

It would be great to get even a photo of the poster, just so we know what the item is/was and to add to the list of Smile items. I'm actually surprised in light of the massive research and collecting that has gone into the Smile Sessions box set and other projects that it was never photographed or copied and reproduced since it's been known to exist for decades.

I'd think such an item would be as important or even as iconic as the "Look Listen..." magazine ad.

Well, all of that  except, "Known to exist". As far as I know there is no such knowledge. Just one report in Dom's book. Seemingly, no one else has ever heard of this poster. Certainly none has ever been offered for sale.  Ever
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« Reply #360 on: February 03, 2014, 09:31:07 AM »

It would be great to get even a photo of the poster, just so we know what the item is/was and to add to the list of Smile items. I'm actually surprised in light of the massive research and collecting that has gone into the Smile Sessions box set and other projects that it was never photographed or copied and reproduced since it's been known to exist for decades.

I'd think such an item would be as important or even as iconic as the "Look Listen..." magazine ad.

Well, all of that  except, "Known to exist". As far as I know there is no such knowledge. Just one report in Dom's book. Seemingly, no one else has ever heard of this poster. Certainly none has ever been offered for sale.  Ever

That's true, I jumped to conclusions on that one. Knowing that it did exist and that at least one person reported that they had it at one time is no guarantee that it still exists 5 decades or so later. Or even if anyone, anywhere still has the poster.
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« Reply #361 on: February 03, 2014, 09:52:36 AM »

It would be great to get even a photo of the poster, just so we know what the item is/was and to add to the list of Smile items. I'm actually surprised in light of the massive research and collecting that has gone into the Smile Sessions box set and other projects that it was never photographed or copied and reproduced since it's been known to have once exist existed for decades.

I'd think such an item would be as important or even as iconic as the "Look Listen..." magazine ad.

FTFY.
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« Reply #362 on: June 04, 2014, 11:19:05 PM »

Beach Boys / The Beat Beat 1963 / 1CD Digipak

http://www.giginjapan.com/beach-boys-beat-beat/
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« Reply #363 on: June 05, 2014, 12:16:16 AM »

That is definitely not a legit product. Looks like someone got the mp3s off iTunes and burned them to cd. Never heard of Brian Wilsom either.
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« Reply #364 on: December 16, 2014, 03:51:05 PM »


For those that were screaming out for a lossless release of this set - it's available to some Europeans -

Okay, here's the link!

http://www.qobuz.com/be-nl/album/the-big-beat-1963-various-artists/0060253767445

- FLAC 16bit / 44.1kHz -

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« Reply #365 on: December 16, 2014, 07:14:49 PM »

How can you be sure it's lossless and not just FLACed from iTunes or Amazon?
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« Reply #366 on: December 22, 2014, 03:10:23 PM »

How can you be sure it's lossless and not just FLACed from iTunes or Amazon?

There are ways to know after you've downloaded, namely use software like "Lossless Audio Checker". The answer will be clear.

I think it is reasonable to assume that the files are from the master quality source, rather than an iTunes download - qobuz is a reasonably reputable service, not some two-bit pirate operation. The price is pretty small.
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« Reply #367 on: January 20, 2015, 07:06:53 PM »

Anyone downloaded this from QOBUZ and checked for lossless source via - http://losslessaudiochecker.com/  ?
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« Reply #368 on: January 20, 2015, 10:13:30 PM »

Unfortunately the Live In Sacramento 1964 release isn't up on German Amazon - just the SOT CD from some seller...
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« Reply #369 on: January 21, 2015, 05:05:17 AM »

Anyone downloaded this from QOBUZ and checked for lossless source via - http://losslessaudiochecker.com/  ?

I haven't yet, but I'll bite, as I still don't have The Big Beat but have been planning to get it for a while. I figure, if they're lossy, I couldn't have got 'em from anywhere else in better condition anyway, as all the other known sources are lossy too - and if they're lossless, then I've got 'em in the format I want right from the off.

I'll report back...

EDIT: Downloading AIFFs (supposedly uncompressed...) now...!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 06:49:36 AM by Matt Bielewicz » Logged
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« Reply #370 on: January 21, 2015, 07:42:08 AM »

Well, although I requested AIFFs from Qobuz, the files downloaded as Apple Lossless (ALAC) instead. The playback outcome should be the same (uncompressed audio), but ALAC has to be decompressed in real time, so it's not absolutely the same thing.

All the files failed on lossless audio checker. However, if the analysis and judgement in the lossless audio checker (which I've never used before) is done on the basis of frequency response analysis, it's worth remembering that a lot of the files on the Big Beat are from really terrible demo recordings or (by the sound of the odd crackle on the files) acetates or disc recordings that have been denoised as best they could. They might therefore have a terrible frequency response anyway at source, and be giving false failures.

The jury is therefore out. I would need to have a better idea of what Lossless Audio Checker is doing to determine whether a file is compressed or not. And also, with hindsight, The Big Beat 1963 is not the best clutch of recordings to be analyzing in this way, because a lot of the tracks sound terrible anyway (in sound and recording quality terms) because of their provenance.

I wait to see whether Qobuz will start selling a supposedly uncompressed version of KAEOS64. *Then* we'd know, because the sound quality of the recordings on that release was amazing, and it would be easier to detect whether the files were lossy or not.

However, I seem to remember one of the well-connected insiders here opining that Lucifer would have a frosty nose before we get KAEOS64 as an uncompressed release. Heigh ho. Back to the drawing board...

Oh well, I'm now an owner of The Big Beat 1963, anyway. That was fun in the name of 'research'...!
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« Reply #371 on: January 21, 2015, 07:33:45 PM »

Thanks for your trouble Matt.

I have found LAC to be quite fussy, and so agree with your reasoning - the jury is still out!

But I thought I saw KAEOS64 at QOBUZ -

 http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/keep-an-eye-on-summer-the-beach-boys-sessions-1964-the-beach-boys/0060254720304

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« Reply #372 on: January 21, 2015, 08:02:17 PM »

While many of the tracks on The Big Beat are demo recordings sourced from acetates or other sources, not everything contained in it is of that quality.  "The Big Beat", "Mother May I", "Bobby Left Me", "Side Two", and "Ballad Of Old Betsy (Demo)" all sound like they're new mixes from the original tapes.  If these tracks failed Lossless Audio Checker than I'd say it's almost 100% certain that the tracks offered from Qobuz aren't genuine lossless files.
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« Reply #373 on: January 22, 2015, 12:14:40 AM »

Indeed, it would be very easy for them to have re-encoded the original iTunes lossy files of either release as WAVs or AIFFs, FLACs or ALACs, and then claim they were selling uncompressed files. But of course this wouldn't restore the original uncompressed audio. As I've said before, it would be like taking a superb high-resolution digital scan of a smartphone snap of the Mona Lisa, and trying to pass it off as the original. The degradation caused to the image when it's taken as a smartphone snap is not restored by the later high-res digital scan; you just get a great copy of something that's already lost some of the appealing qualities of the original.

I repeat, however, that for me, the jury's still out on whether Qoboz has been naughty enough to do this. Lossless Audio Checker (especially the free web version I used) strikes me as something of a blunt tool, and I'm not sure I feel secure pronouncing the Qoboz files as lossy rips in a high-res coating solely on the basis of LAC's say-so.

I would need to get a spectragraph reading of the files to get a better idea, but even that isn't foolproof (and I can't right now anyway, as the computer I have my serious audio analysis tools on is packed away pending some building work I'm having done at the moment).

Some of the pitfalls of trying to determine whether something is lossy or lossless are mentioned in this thread:

http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=71862

Post number 11 there explains the whole Mona Lisa thing in more technical language than I put it, for anyone who wants that  Wink

I won't be giving the Qobuz versions of KAEOS64 a go any time soon, for two reasons: one, I currently lack the tools I would trust to be able to make a proper judgement, even on the better-quality recordings that can be found on KAEOS64, and secondly, and more prosaically — I already bought KAEOS64 in its original lossy format once, and I don't really want to shill for it again. Especially not if it turns out the files are the same lossy ones I already paid for, but this time in a sugary hi-res coating, so to speak...!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 12:20:41 AM by Matt Bielewicz » Logged
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« Reply #374 on: January 26, 2015, 11:57:17 AM »


I won't be giving the Qobuz versions of KAEOS64 a go any time soon, for two reasons: one, I currently lack the tools I would trust to be able to make a proper judgement, even on the better-quality recordings that can be found on KAEOS64, and secondly, and more prosaically — I already bought KAEOS64 in its original lossy format once, and I don't really want to shill for it again. Especially not if it turns out the files are the same lossy ones I already paid for, but this time in a sugary hi-res coating, so to speak...!

How about doing a test with one of your own files, a .wav/.aif that you know is lossless, run it through the tester to check to see what kind of data gives you, then compressing that very same file and convert it to .wav, checking it again. At least that could give you an idea if the tool works at all.
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