The Big Beat 1963

[guitarfool2002]

Fascinating, terrific photo of the Smile cardboard...it does seem printed directly on the cardboard. There is precedent of Smile promotional material, both in-store standup type and a poster with that cover.

I knew I had read about similar stories, in fact one experience almost exactly like Jim Murphy's New York record shop only happening in Pasadena.

I have an original copy of LLVS, in that version turn to pages 9 and 10...One story printed there is someone who used to volunteer at a record shop in Pasadena, saw the store display at a shop called "Duford And Kaiser" (or was the shop located at Duford and Kaiser??? I'm not familiar with Pasadena), and asked the owner for the display. The owner told him to go to the distributor "on San Fernando Road" and ask them for one. Apparently he did not get one, because the piece says the next time the narrator saw the cover image was in the Leaf book.

The display was the new group of Capitol releases to come out that Christmas in 1966.

On page 10, reprinted is what is labeled as a page "from Bill Earl's diary 1966-67", dated April 15 1967. It tells of going to Pasadena, "Discount Records Center", buying Kind Of A Drag and Walk Away Renee (man, what a great freakin year for pop records... ), and the guy at the store gave him a "big Capitol Records poster" with the Smile cover featured.

So in December 1966 we have reports of an in-store display, and a promotional poster both with the Holmes artwork cover.

Perhaps the Smile cardboard in the photo above was cut from a larger display along the lines of what that narrator reported asking for in Pasadena in December 1966. And the reply from the shop owner suggests these were in fact given out to area shops on a larger scale from *his* distributor.

[Mikie]

That would be why Mike said they had album covers already in April '67 and Capitol production had covers in warehouse until 1969.

See? I knew I'd read that somewhere. That's why it's hard for me to understand how a few didn't survive. Unless they had very close control of them.  What were the numbers of those supposedly printed and scrapped?

[bgas]

That would be why Mike said they had album covers already in April '67 and Capitol production had covers in warehouse until 1969.

See? I knew I'd read that somewhere. That's why it's hard for me to understand how a few didn't survive. Unless they had very close control of them.  What were the numbers of those supposedly printed and scrapped?

I believe the number usually nadied about is 400,000 copies each, of both the booklet and the cover.
I'm thinking there are about 10 original booklets known to exist.
I've never seen a claim of even one cover, unless perhaps Mike or one of the other BBs has a cover squirreled away somewhere. 
Where does Mike's April '67 quote originate? 
I was under the impression Capitol had the items in warehouse until 1970/71 when they put them in the Scranton landfill; anyone been to the landfill to check it out? 

Fascinating, terrific photo of the Smile cardboard...it does seem printed directly on the cardboard. There is precedent of Smile promotional material, both in-store standup type and a poster with that cover.

I knew I had read about similar stories, in fact one experience almost exactly like Jim Murphy's New York record shop only happening in Pasadena.

I have an original copy of LLVS, in that version turn to pages 9 and 10...One story printed there is someone who used to volunteer at a record shop in Pasadena, saw the store display at a shop called "Duford And Kaiser" (or was the shop located at Duford and Kaiser??? I'm not familiar with Pasadena), and asked the owner for the display. The owner told him to go to the distributor "on San Fernando Road" and ask them for one. Apparently he did not get one, because the piece says the next time the narrator saw the cover image was in the Leaf book.

The display was the new group of Capitol releases to come out that Christmas in 1966.

On page 10, reprinted is what is labeled as a page "from Bill Earl's diary 1966-67", dated April 15 1967. It tells of going to Pasadena, "Discount Records Center", buying Kind Of A Drag and Walk Away Renee (man, what a great freakin year for pop records... ), and the guy at the store gave him a "big Capitol Records poster" with the Smile cover featured.

So in December 1966 we have reports of an in-store display, and a promotional poster both with the Holmes artwork cover.

Perhaps the Smile cardboard in the photo above was cut from a larger display along the lines of what that narrator reported asking for in Pasadena in December 1966. And the reply from the shop owner suggests these were in fact given out to area shops on a larger scale from *his* distributor.

 

The Duford-Kaiser store is shown prominently in this 1957 Rose Parade photo, along with the addresss and some pertinent info in the comments section: 

http://www.charlesphoenix.com/2008/12/rose-parade-pasadena-ca-january-11957/ 

The LLVS printing on page 9/10,  seems to me to be written/quoted from the same Bill Earl whose small diary entry is included on page 10; ( I don't believe Domenic was old enough in 1966 to have witnessed all of that) So anyone know Bill to contact him?  ( I don't) 

While I believe Phil's cover to be a legitimate Capitol promo piece there are a few questions I have:

   Is it the same as the others spotted around the country and did they all have this same black border on two sides.     OR, 
   Were all of them cut from a larger poster featuring other Capitol releases? ( if that's the case,   WHY has zero evidence of a full poster surfaced in the ensuing years? )

   Was the Instore display to be only a cover mock-up, ala Phil's or a poster of multiple label releases?
   Was the poster manufactured solely by Capitol, or in conjunction with other labels for "Discount Records Center"( and was Duford-Kaiser still existing by 1966 or were they "Discount"? 
  TOO many questions for me....  sure would like to see the poster tho....

[guitarfool2002]

Thank you for the info on Pasadena and the record shop! The problem with pages like that in LLVS and also the quotes in the earlier Preiss book is that the quotes and paragraphs could be left hanging with no context or dates to identify where or who it came from.

I looked close at the cardboard example again, and I'm leaning toward suggesting it was cut from a larger in-store display, maybe similar to or the exact same type that is described in LLVS. And again, it doesn't answer any questions in 2014 but the shop owner's suggestion to go to the distributor to ask for one suggests this was circulated among shops and dealers, if not given to Capitol's regional and local sales reps to give to the shops when they paid a regular visit.

Which opens up yet again the question why did more of them not survive, actually if they're specifically described in LLVS decades ago why have they not surfaced, even an image of the poster?

I'm thinking the cardboard example in the photo *may* have been cut from a larger display piece for simple practical reasons too: We don't really know how big the display was, maybe if the person who originally got this didn't have the room to store a large piece and didn't care much about the other Capitol albums on the display, he simply cut out the Beach Boys cover he wanted to save and got rid of the rest.

Looking closely, again it looks like someone took scissors or an X-Acto knife to the cardboard and cut out Smile from the rest. The cut around the edges is pretty rough and uneven, not a machine cut.

[guitarfool2002]

And of course factor in the collector's dream of finding the original L.O.L. (little old lady) having an estate sale at the house she lived in since 1952 with her late husband who was "something in the music business" in the 50's and 60's. We're first in line and get there early, go straight to the attic: "Oh, look around up there if you want, just be careful of the cats."

And in that attic there is an unused roll of Beach Boys Party potato chip bags, and a few of the Smile posters from Capitol still in the shipping tubes from 1966, some 8mm film canisters and ancient Sony Porta-Pak open reels labeled "Brian W 1/67", and off in the corner next to a sewing machine sits the Smile in store cardboard display. And next to that an old Chesterfield cigarette cardboard box with a sealed, first-state Butcher Cover.

Then she says "Oh, he had an old guitar too, didn't play it much tho', let me see if I can find it"...and walks out with a 1959 Gibson Les Paul Standard, sunburst with the original pink-lined case and hang-tags.

"You're really helping me, young man, I gotta get rid of this stuff before I sell the house...is it worth anything?"

It could happen...

[SMiLE Brian]

L.O.L

[Jim Murphy]

GF --

Add a 1962 Fender Strat to a corner in that attic . . . and that is exactly what I dream about every night!  Hmm, these chips are still good!

[Cam Mott]

That would be why Mike said they had album covers already in April '67 and Capitol production had covers in warehouse until 1969.

See? I knew I'd read that somewhere. That's why it's hard for me to understand how a few didn't survive. Unless they had very close control of them.  What were the numbers of those supposedly printed and scrapped?

I believe the number usually nadied about is 400,000 copies each, of both the booklet and the cover.
I'm thinking there are about 10 original booklets known to exist.
I've never seen a claim of even one cover, unless perhaps Mike or one of the other BBs has a cover squirreled away somewhere. 
Where does Mike's April '67 quote originate? 
I was under the impression Capitol had the items in warehouse until 1970/71 when they put them in the Scranton landfill; anyone been to the landfill to check it out? 

Fascinating, terrific photo of the Smile cardboard...it does seem printed directly on the cardboard. There is precedent of Smile promotional material, both in-store standup type and a poster with that cover.

I knew I had read about similar stories, in fact one experience almost exactly like Jim Murphy's New York record shop only happening in Pasadena.

I have an original copy of LLVS, in that version turn to pages 9 and 10...One story printed there is someone who used to volunteer at a record shop in Pasadena, saw the store display at a shop called "Duford And Kaiser" (or was the shop located at Duford and Kaiser??? I'm not familiar with Pasadena), and asked the owner for the display. The owner told him to go to the distributor "on San Fernando Road" and ask them for one. Apparently he did not get one, because the piece says the next time the narrator saw the cover image was in the Leaf book.

The display was the new group of Capitol releases to come out that Christmas in 1966.

On page 10, reprinted is what is labeled as a page "from Bill Earl's diary 1966-67", dated April 15 1967. It tells of going to Pasadena, "Discount Records Center", buying Kind Of A Drag and Walk Away Renee (man, what a great freakin year for pop records... ), and the guy at the store gave him a "big Capitol Records poster" with the Smile cover featured.

So in December 1966 we have reports of an in-store display, and a promotional poster both with the Holmes artwork cover.

Perhaps the Smile cardboard in the photo above was cut from a larger display along the lines of what that narrator reported asking for in Pasadena in December 1966. And the reply from the shop owner suggests these were in fact given out to area shops on a larger scale from *his* distributor.

 

The Duford-Kaiser store is shown prominently in this 1957 Rose Parade photo, along with the addresss and some pertinent info in the comments section: 

http://www.charlesphoenix.com/2008/12/rose-parade-pasadena-ca-january-11957/ 

The LLVS printing on page 9/10,  seems to me to be written/quoted from the same Bill Earl whose small diary entry is included on page 10; ( I don't believe Domenic was old enough in 1966 to have witnessed all of that) So anyone know Bill to contact him?  ( I don't) 

While I believe Phil's cover to be a legitimate Capitol promo piece there are a few questions I have:

   Is it the same as the others spotted around the country and did they all have this same black border on two sides.     OR, 
   Were all of them cut from a larger poster featuring other Capitol releases? ( if that's the case,   WHY has zero evidence of a full poster surfaced in the ensuing years? )

   Was the Instore display to be only a cover mock-up, ala Phil's or a poster of multiple label releases?
   Was the poster manufactured solely by Capitol, or in conjunction with other labels for "Discount Records Center"( and was Duford-Kaiser still existing by 1966 or were they "Discount"? 
  TOO many questions for me....  sure would like to see the poster tho....

Scranton, that's the one Queens Litho shipped to. That Mike ref was in a German interview translated in LLVS. Any body have it in the original language?

It's possible Production never cracked a box of covers except to verify contents. They would be held for filling with sleeves and records probably. The Art Director and Legal and the Producer and maybe, but necessarily, the band would have already seen and signed off on proofs and Art Department mock ups. There wouldn't have been any reason for any of the covers to leave the warehouse really until shipped or disposed I'm thinking.

[Bicyclerider]

There were other Capitol in store displays for albums other than smile, right?  Maybe someone can find a photo of one.  My remembrance of in store displays was a cardboard mockup in a cardboard holder, with the cover leaning back some so as not to fall out of the display.  Not sure if the cardboard holder had record company logos on it or was generic.  But this was close to fifty years ago so I'd like a photo to confirm my memory.

As for booklets, I suspect there are only five or six extant.  Lee's, frank's, mine, and the Guy Webster one but I can't remember who ended up with that one.  That's four.  Lee, do you know for sure of any more?

[Mikie]

I got to touch Lee's booklet once. Not just look at it to verify its authenticity, but I actually got to touch it. I was there when Lee compared his to Frank's (the booklets). After the meeting, I was waiting for Lee outside in a dark alley and was thinking about mugging him but chickened out at the last minute.....

So if there's only 4 0r 5 in existence, which one was used to make the bootlegged versions of the booklet back in the 70's?  Remember the ones that were excellent copies offered for 12 bucks and some people never got theirs? I think more than one run was made of them. I have a numbered one.

[bgas]

There were other Capitol in store displays for albums other than smile, right?  Maybe someone can find a photo of one.  My remembrance of in store displays was a cardboard mockup in a cardboard holder, with the cover leaning back some so as not to fall out of the display.  Not sure if the cardboard holder had record company logos on it or was generic.  But this was close to fifty years ago so I'd like a photo to confirm my memory.

As for booklets, I suspect there are only five or six extant.  Lee's, frank's, mine, and the Guy Webster one but I can't remember who ended up with that one.  That's four.  Lee, do you know for sure of any more?

Sounds as if youre talking about LP cover stand-ups that we touched upon earlier in this thread, tho there have been other displays for other artists( Beatles come to mind) 
 And of course there's the semi-famous Capitol cardboard display  that holds multyiple copies of actual LPs

As for The Booklets, I believe Leetold me his is an artist's proof version, with some of the parts glued in as for a mock-up.
Of course you should add mine to your count. 

[Bicyclerider]

So that's five for sure, but as you mention, not all of them are production copies.  Mine is also a proof.  And a very good question has been raised - whose booklet was used to make the numbered run edition in the late 70s early 80s?  It was not a proof booklet.  Frank's was a regular production copy.  The advantage of the proof copies are that they are generally in better condition and the art is more detailed with better resolution than on the actual "mass printed" booklets.

And yeah, I remember the holders used for actual LP's for display as well.  I was out of the country in 66-67 so I missed my chance to see and potentially get a Smile display from the local record retailer!

[bgas]

So that's five for sure, but as you mention, not all of them are production copies.  Mine is also a proof.  And a very good question has been raised - whose booklet was used to make the numbered run edition in the late 70s early 80s?  It was not a proof booklet.  Frank's was a regular production copy.  The advantage of the proof copies are that they are generally in better condition and the art is more detailed with better resolution than on the actual "mass printed" booklets.

And yeah, I remember the holders used for actual LP's for display as well.  I was out of the country in 66-67 so I missed my chance to see and potentially get a Smile display from the local record retailer!

 Mine is almost Mint, except one page has a couple of very light paper scrapes. Not certain who owned it before I did, and whether they might have made the boots.

I would think that Peter has a booklet to go with his Mono Slick.

While a fan, I wasn't following them closely enough in 66-67 to be aware of the possiblity of Smile covers/displays and I really can't remembr visiting any actual record stores back then; it was all department store buys for me. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

The booklet used for the 1970s repro belonged to a UK fan, and was a finished copy, not a proof. I got to see and handle it on several occasions and, rusty staples aside, it was in immaculate condition. The fan in question also had a "finished" sleeve.

I say "finished" because, excepting maybe ten art dept. mockups, no completed sleeves ever existed. Couldn't, as the back slick was never printed up like the front slick. The layout of the back slick wasn't finalised and, as a monochrome print, it would have (literally) taken one quarter of the time it took to produce the front cover.

Regarding the cover pictured in this thread, given the image and the references, it looks like the display featured several albums, and that the Smile one was cut out from it. Question - how big is the cover pictured in this thread ?

[DMBeard_13]

If you live in the UK, The Big Beat 1963 i available.

Here's the link —

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Beat-1963-Various-artists/dp/B00HXLLDM8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390853273&sr=8-1&keywords=the+big+beat+1963

[Bicyclerider]

So that's five for sure, but as you mention, not all of them are production copies.  Mine is also a proof.  And a very good question has been raised - whose booklet was used to make the numbered run edition in the late 70s early 80s?  It was not a proof booklet.  Frank's was a regular production copy.  The advantage of the proof copies are that they are generally in better condition and the art is more detailed with better resolution than on the actual "mass printed" booklets.

And yeah, I remember the holders used for actual LP's for display as well.  I was out of the country in 66-67 so I missed my chance to see and potentially get a Smile display from the local record retailer!

 Mine is almost Mint, except one page has a couple of very light paper scrapes. Not certain who owned it before I did, and whether they might have made the boots.

I would think that Peter has a booklet to go with his Mono Slick.

While a fan, I wasn't following them closely enough in 66-67 to be aware of the possiblity of Smile covers/displays and I really can't remembr visiting any actual record stores back then; it was all department store buys for me. 

I ended up with Peter's after going through a couple of other owners. 

[Smilin Ed H]

If you live in the UK, The Big Beat 1963 i available.

Here's the link —

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Beat-1963-Various-artists/dp/B00HXLLDM8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390853273&sr=8-1&keywords=the+big+beat+1963

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttttt and to think I already downloaded it illegally because I COULDN'T BUY IT WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT EVEN THOUGH I WANTED TO!

[bgas]

The booklet used for the 1970s repro belonged to a UK fan, and was a finished copy, not a proof. I got to see and handle it on several occasions and, rusty staples aside, it was in immaculate condition. The fan in question also had a "finished" sleeve.

I say "finished" because, excepting maybe ten art dept. mockups, no completed sleeves ever existed. Couldn't, as the back slick was never printed up like the front slick. The layout of the back slick wasn't finalised and, as a monochrome print, it would have (literally) taken one quarter of the time it took to produce the front cover.

 Be neat to see a finished sleeve, but I'm not sure of your distincttion. Not sure what your point is on the back covers as I own a back slick ( yes, it is exactly like the boot/copies of the back)
 It is an original as proofed by the Capitol art dept/Ray Polley; if your point is the back covers were never printed from this slick,  I can live with that, as it impacts me not at all.
  But to flat out deny their existence is rather silly as back slicks do exist. Brian not finshing his selections doesn't mean squat as far as Capitol producing slicks.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Back slicks exist, but were never printed up past the proof stage, hence maybe only 10 ever existed, as opposed to about 440,000 finished front slicks and (reportedly) 410,000 booklets.

[Cam Mott]

Back slicks exist, but were never printed up past the proof stage, hence maybe only 10 ever existed, as opposed to about 440,000 finished front slicks and (reportedly) 410,000 booklets.

Can anyone supply an image of or the exact wording of the August 1969 memo about what SMiLE related material was still in the Scranton and LA warehouse? Thanks.

[bgas]

Back slicks exist, but were never printed up past the proof stage, hence maybe only 10 ever existed, as opposed to about 440,000 finished front slicks and (reportedly) 410,000 booklets.

Okay, gotcha. Figured it was something like that, and whle I know I tend to forget stuff, nice to have some numbering.  
Thanxx, for being more precise.

Edit;  backtracking... I wasn't there, and don't know anyone that was, so How do "we" know that the 440,000 Front slicks weren't attached to covers with Back slicks also attached to those same covers?  Unless some Capitol employee(s) snatched a copy on the way to the landfill, or someone can dig into that landfill and find a reasonably intact package, what eveidence is there for any of this? 

Also, AGD, any chance you can get whomever has the finsihed sleeve to post some pics? 

[bringahorseinhere?]

I still can't get this 

I'm in Australia.......

would dearly pay for this, any ideas how I can get this...

pm me please gang

RickB

[bgas]

Back slicks exist, but were never printed up past the proof stage, hence maybe only 10 ever existed, as opposed to about 440,000 finished front slicks and (reportedly) 410,000 booklets.

Found these numbers on some Smile archive site; They're relatively close  to your numbers. Does this mean that some of each would be in LA landfills/the LaBrea tar pits? 
352,000 Smile covers and 325,000 booklets - at the Scranton, PA plant.
114,000 Smile covers and 94,200 booklets - at the Los Angeles plant.

[Alan Smith]

I still can't get this  

I'm in Australia.......

would dearly pay for this, any ideas how I can get this...

pm me please gang

RickB

It's on iTunes Australia - $16.99.  Go to "Store", then type in "The Big Beat 1963" in the search box thingy

[Ebb and Flow]

Still blown away by "Mother May I".  Might just be a weird little song for most people, but for my money hearing an unreleased BW song from 1963 in stellar quality automatically beats most of the unreleased stuff on MIC.  It makes me wonder what other gems will come out of these copyright extension releases if they go on.