Dennis Wilson is insanely overrated

[Smile4ever]

I'm sure this will stir people up into a raging fury. But it seems ridiculous to me how highly-regarded Dennis Wilson is in the Beach Boys fan community. Yes, Dennis wrote some good material in the 70s, and yes he was a good-looking guy with nice stage presence.

That being said, how in the world is this guy even compared to Brian Wilson, one of the greatest musical geniuses of all time? And yes, Brian is even viewed as an all-time genius by reputable classical musicians. Yet, around here--as witnessed in a thread that is currently near the top of this board--board members apparently think Dennis is essentially equal to Brian in talent. Are you guys really this crazy, or perhaps typing your messages in a drugged-up Wilson-like phase? That kind of assertion is insane. The fact that these two are even compared is a flat out joke.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm sure this will stir people up into a raging fury. But it seems ridiculous to me how highly-regarded Dennis Wilson is in the Beach Boys fan community. Yes, Dennis wrote some good material in the 70s, and yes he was a good-looking guy with nice stage presence.

That being said, how in the world is this guy even compared to Brian Wilson, one of the greatest musical geniuses of all time? And yes, Brian is even viewed as an all-time genius by reputable classical musicians. Yet, around here--as witnessed in a thread that is currently near the top of this board--board members apparently think Dennis is essentially equal to Brian in talent. Are you guys really this crazy, or perhaps typing your messages in a drugged-up Wilson-like phase? That kind of assertion is insane. The fact that these two are even compared is a flat out joke.

Why didn't you just post this in the "Beach Boys or Dennis Wilson" thread? 

[Mikie]

You trying to start a war?

I've been on these boards a long time. Dennis Wilson has always been highly regarded in the Beach Boys fan community and elsewhere, and unarguably second to Brian as far as talent in the band. I could go on and on about Dennis Wilson's music. There are so many positive adjectives to describe it. But I'll leave that to the books and articles written about the Beach Boys and Dennis specifically..

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys. He is the band. We're his fucking messengers. He is all of it. Period. We're nothing. He's everything."

That was a pretty humble statement made by Dennis back in '76 to describe his brother. When Brian took a hiatus for a few years, it was Dennis who really stepped up and wrote and produced and sang some pretty damn good music that filled in the blanks to those Beach Boys albums. He even 'sacrificed' a few of his songs so that the albums could be better. NOBODY else in the Beach Boys could come up with those great songs (and albums like POB and Bambu) like Dennis did.

[Ovi]

And yes, Brian is even viewed as an all-time genius by reputable classical musicians.

Oh, that ought to settle the argument. Classical musicians? That is serious sh*t right there.

I agree that Brian is without a doubt the most talented Beach Boy (and this comes from a guy who loves pretty much everything Dennis ever wrote throughout his life), but why get all pissy if someone feels otherwise? Peoples' tastes differ - maybe some connect and can relate more to Dennis' music and personality than Brian's. On a board with 2000 members, opinions are going to differ, you know.

[Mike's Beard]

Objectively I'd say that Dennis at his peak couldn't touch Brian at his peak but that by the mid 70's and onwards it was Dennis who was making the better music by quite a considerable margin.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm sure this will stir people up into a raging fury.

... but of course, that wasn't your intention at all, was it ? 

But it seems ridiculous to me how highly-regarded Dennis Wilson is in the Beach Boys fan community. Yes, Dennis wrote some good material in the 70s, and yes he was a good-looking guy with nice stage presence.

Yes, he did, and yes he was.

That being said, how in the world is this guy even compared to Brian Wilson, one of the greatest musical geniuses of all time? And yes, Brian is even viewed as an all-time genius by reputable classical musicians. Yet, around here--as witnessed in a thread that is currently near the top of this board--board members apparently think Dennis is essentially equal to Brian in talent. Are you guys really this crazy, or perhaps typing your messages in a drugged-up Wilson-like phase? That kind of assertion is insane. The fact that these two are even compared is a flat out joke.

Folk here may well think that. I, along with most level-headed posters here, would strongly disagree with them. Dennis at his absolute peak wasn't even close to Brian at his. Dennis' album is far and away the best of the official solo releases, but frankly, the competition isn't up to much, with maybe two exceptions.  Was Dennis as talented as Brian, taken overall ? No, of course not, but he was able to step up to bat when it was desperately needed.

BTW, the thread you cite as "proof" was started by someone who is strongly regarded as an incipient troll.

[The Shift]

They each peaked in very different eras. Musical tastes, trends… even the technology was quite different. Each excelled in his own peak period. But no-one on Earth could hold a candle to Brian at his peak, not even John McMartin.

[buddhahat]

Good luck with this OP.

Seriously, when I first heard POB in the height of my obsession with smile and all things Brian Wilson I had a similar reaction to yours. Some of the tracks just sounded like the overblown soundtrack to an 80s cop show to my ears. But as time passed I came to realise the depth of DW's music. He really took the BB sound and fashioned something artistically viable and relevant for the 70s and it's tragic that the band couldn't follow his lead and appoint him as primary songwriter or at least give him more space on the albums. Although maybe he worked better alone and didn't need that responsibility.

I don't think many, if any, fans here believe DW to be the equal of BW at the peak of his powers.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I'm sure this will stir people up into a raging fury.

... but of course, that wasn't your intention at all, was it ?  

But it seems ridiculous to me how highly-regarded Dennis Wilson is in the Beach Boys fan community. Yes, Dennis wrote some good material in the 70s, and yes he was a good-looking guy with nice stage presence.

Yes, he did, and yes he was.

That being said, how in the world is this guy even compared to Brian Wilson, one of the greatest musical geniuses of all time? And yes, Brian is even viewed as an all-time genius by reputable classical musicians. Yet, around here--as witnessed in a thread that is currently near the top of this board--board members apparently think Dennis is essentially equal to Brian in talent. Are you guys really this crazy, or perhaps typing your messages in a drugged-up Wilson-like phase? That kind of assertion is insane. The fact that these two are even compared is a flat out joke.

Folk here may well think that. I, along with most level-headed posters here, would strongly disagree with them. Dennis at his absolute peak wasn't even close to Brian at his. Dennis' album is far and away the best of the official solo releases, but frankly, the competition isn't up to much, with maybe two exceptions.  Was Dennis as talented as Brian, taken overall ? No, of course not, but he was able to step up to bat when it was desperately needed.

BTW, the thread you cite as "proof" was started by someone who is strongly regarded as an incipient troll.

In the sixties, no Dennis wasn't the equal to Brian - not even close.

In the seventies, yes I think he absolutely was, as the evidence shows:

Brian writes This Whole World and Our Sweet Love, Dennis writes Slip On Through and Forever.

Brian writes Til I Die, Dennis writes Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again.

Brian writes Marcella, Dennis writes Cuddle Up.

Brian writes Funky Pretty, Dennis writes Carry Me Home.

Dennis frequently matched Brian in terms of song quality in the '70's, and unlike Brian he maintained the quality (I mean honestly, was Brian capable of producing something as majestic as Baby Blue by 1978-9?).

I love Love You, but this is no longer a song writer in the same class as the one who wrote All I Wanna Do and Til I Die at the start of the decade. Meanwhile... Dennis was writing Thoughts Of You.

So of course Brian was overall the greater songwriter - his sixties peak is unmatched by anyone, let alone his brother - but I think it's a discredit to Dennis to claim Brian still had the edge over him in the 1970's. Dennis frequently matched him and occasionally outclassed him.

[Jon Stebbins]

Wow I guess things have really cycled a 180 if you think about it. It wasn't too long ago...15 years or less...that Dennis was routinely labeled as the LEAST talented of the Beach Boys. I know it seems ridiculous to many of us now, but a little while back even solid Beach Boys fans and some "historians and authors" tried to tell us that Dennis was a good looking guy with nothing to back it up. They said he didn't sing much on the records (I know, did they ever really listen to a Beach Boys blend?)...they said he never played drums on the records (so stupid and untrue)...they even wrote in some cases that POB had no impact in it's time...geez buy a back issue of Rolling Stone or Creem. Anyway...he became the poster child for "most underrated Beach Boy" by a whole lot of people who started paying attention. Now...in 2013 we got a guy telling us he's "Insanely Overrated"...I got a good laugh out of that one.

[Dunderhead]

Agreed, he's not *that* great. All of the band members deserve their due justice, but I wouldn't give a sh*t about the Beach Boys if it weren't for Brian Wilson, there's no getting around that fact. Embrace the darkness.

[pixletwin]

Dennis is "insanely overrated"?!!!???

THAT! IS! IT!!!!

[clack]

Dennis was a good songwriter, a good singer (before he wrecked his voice), a talented multi-instrumentalist, a fine arranger and producer. I'd rate him as a musician as roughly equal with his one-time girlfriend, Christine McVie.

[Mikie]

That's saying a lot, Clack!

Pixel, that was a good one! 

[filledeplage]

I'm sure this will stir people up into a raging fury. But it seems ridiculous to me how highly-regarded Dennis Wilson is in the Beach Boys fan community. Yes, Dennis wrote some good material in the 70s, and yes he was a good-looking guy with nice stage presence.

That being said, how in the world is this guy even compared to Brian Wilson, one of the greatest musical geniuses of all time? And yes, Brian is even viewed as an all-time genius by reputable classical musicians. Yet, around here--as witnessed in a thread that is currently near the top of this board--board members apparently think Dennis is essentially equal to Brian in talent. Are you guys really this crazy, or perhaps typing your messages in a drugged-up Wilson-like phase? That kind of assertion is insane. The fact that these two are even compared is a flat out joke.

Dennis impressed me as a "late bloomer." Not everyone has a learning curve that travels upon the same continuum.  It is inherently unjust to compare him to Brian, whose background and study included college level music composition. Dennis was sort of the "on the job training" guy.  His abilities were apparently attacked by old Murry, and was regarded as not any more significant than a "clubber."  

That said, he brought an undeniable verve to the band, without which not, might have led to a limited "idea pool" and concept-source for the band's songwriting efforts.  Brian certainly depended on Dennis in the early days for idea and theme concepts. Dennis was in his big brother's shadow. How does one compete with that? Is it even fair to be compared in that fashion?

Dennis seemed to come into bloom later, with colleagues who were confidence builders "from without" some of whom are experts on this forum.  It isn't fair to compare siblings.  Each brings a skill set and talent set that should not be under estimated.  It is too bad that his addictions got in the way of his talent.  Dennis wrote in a profoundly simple manner, often from a "darker place" than Brian.  His work did not enjoy the same marketing as Brian/BB work.  What is clear is that the little we have left of Dennis' work has endured.  And, in fairness, Stamos did promote "Forever" to the masses in a way that would never have happened otherwise.  And Pet Sounds was not properly promoted, but has proved over and over to be enduring.  

And, I would not call him "overrated" but "undervalued" or "underappreciated."  

[SMiLE-addict]

That being said, how in the world is this guy even compared to Brian Wilson, one of the greatest musical geniuses of all time?

Who ever said he was comparable to Brian? Nobody, as far as I know.

[RioGrande]

As great as Brian? Nope.
Comparable? Hell yeah (evidence: POB, Bambu, the magnificent songs DW did for the BB).

[Mike's Beard]

In the seventies, yes I think he absolutely was, as the evidence shows:

Brian writes This Whole World and Our Sweet Love, Dennis writes Slip On Through and Forever.

Brian writes Til I Die, Dennis writes Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again.

Brian writes Marcella, Dennis writes Cuddle Up.

Brian writes Funky Pretty, Dennis writes Carry Me Home.

It's all subjective but I don't think any of those Dennis songs (as much as I like them) match up to the Brian examples given. It's a shame that Brian's genius died after the Holland album - those early 70's songs of his are my favourite era for him.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

In the seventies, yes I think he absolutely was, as the evidence shows:

Brian writes This Whole World and Our Sweet Love, Dennis writes Slip On Through and Forever.

Brian writes Til I Die, Dennis writes Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again.

Brian writes Marcella, Dennis writes Cuddle Up.

Brian writes Funky Pretty, Dennis writes Carry Me Home.

It's all subjective but I don't think any of those Dennis songs (as much as I like them) match up to the Brian examples given. It's a shame that Brian's genius died after the Holland album - those early 70's songs of his are my favourite era for him.

Fair enough. Meanwhile I think Cuddle Up is so vastly superior to Marcella that it almost brings tears to my eyes to hear anyone claiming otherwise... But hey, opinions etc.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think if the OP had stopped at "Dennis Wilson is insane", he'd have had a rousing chorus of agreement. 

[G.C]

Dennis is not overrated, and he is certainly not insanely overrated.

[Emdeeh]

And, I would not call him "overrated" but "undervalued" or "underappreciated."   

I agree 100% with filledeplage here. I've been a huge fan of Dennis' music, ever since Sunflower for certain. All three Wilson brothers were brilliantly talented, each in his own way.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

And, I would not call him "overrated" but "undervalued" or "underappreciated."   

I agree 100% with filledeplage here. I've been a huge fan of Dennis' music, ever since Sunflower for certain. All three Wilson brothers were brilliantly talented, each in his own way.

Exactly. It has to be said that there seems to be large number of people on here who don't actually like a vast quantity of actual Beach Boys music.








































Oh, and 'It's Over Now' is awful.

[alf wiedersehen]

Oh, and 'It's Over Now' is awful.

You fiend!

[Smile4ever]

Wow I guess things have really cycled a 180 if you think about it. It wasn't too long ago...15 years or less...that Dennis was routinely labeled as the LEAST talented of the Beach Boys. I know it seems ridiculous to many of us now, but a little while back even solid Beach Boys fans and some "historians and authors" tried to tell us that Dennis was a good looking guy with nothing to back it up. They said he didn't sing much on the records (I know, did they ever really listen to a Beach Boys blend?)...they said he never played drums on the records (so stupid and untrue)...they even wrote in some cases that POB had no impact in it's time...geez buy a back issue of Rolling Stone or Creem. Anyway...he became the poster child for "most underrated Beach Boy" by a whole lot of people who started paying attention. Now...in 2013 we got a guy telling us he's "Insanely Overrated"...I got a good laugh out of that one.

Dennis is "insanely overrated" relative to assertions in posts about Dennis and Brian on this board, and not just a recent thread. Obviously we all love the Beach Boys. But that doesn't mean we have to pretend that Dennis Wilson was the second-coming of Beethoven. Obviously, the majority of Beach Boys die hards don't believe that, so I certainly don't want to accuse everyone of holding that opinion. But I have witnessed a vocal minority on this board essentially say that Dennis is as good as Brian. Considering Brian's enormous and rare talent, it's hard to believe that some people hold that bizarre opinion. We don't need to show our support for Dennis and the Beach Boys by making clearly false assertions.

Regarding a few common responses, yes Dennis was probably a better songwriter than Brian in the mid-70s. I wouldn't argue that.  But Brian at his peak versus Dennis at his peak...the two are nowhere even close.

The quote Dennis himself made about the Beach Boys should probably be taken to heart by some fans, even though it was clearly an exaggeration and did not give the other guys nearly enough credit. Dennis was certainly a talented guy who is UNDERRATED by the general public and general Beach Boys fan base. Still, the reality is that Brian was a creative tour de force. There were very few musicians comparable to him in the world, let alone his own band.