"God Only Knows" Backing track session Question

[JoelKoster]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or not, But I'm wondering if anybody has any info on what specific keyboard instruments were used on the recording of the backing track.

The piano played by Don Randi is quite audible on the track and by listening to the Unsurpassed Masters Pet Sounds Sessions I'm 100% sure there is a Harpsichord in there aswell because there is audio of the harpsichord playing the intro chords. But I can hear something else with a different more high pitched sound that begins in the 2nd verse and is specifically audible in the instrumental break at 1:04 that sounds really cool that I don't think is a harpsichord. Is it maybe an organ of some sort? Because on the session notes Larry Knetchel is listed as playing the organ. But a lot of the Pet Sounds notes aren't really very accurate. Is it maybe a combo organ like a Farfisa or something?

I've tested out many different sounds but I'm not really getting anything as close to the original track. I really love how Brian used the wall of sound technique to combine various instruments together to create a really unique sound.

[Shane]

I took a listen to that part, and I'll make a guess.  It does indeed sound like a harpsicord to me, played in the lower register of the instrument, with plenty of delay echo on it.  Play the opening of the song, then play the part at 1:04... it sure sounds like the same instrument to me.  Others I'm sure will give their thoughts as well...

[zachrwolfe]

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[zachrwolfe]

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[JoelKoster]

I'm quite sure Carl Wilson is responsible for the staccato Guitar that begins in the 2nd verse. It sounds like he's most likely using a 12 string plugged directly in to the desk and also I think he's most likely playing four note voicings on the bottom four strings. I've listened a little closer and I think it most definitely is some type of organ and I'm maybe going a bit further to say that it is doubling the harpsichord. It's really difficult to tell though with the tape echo and the chamber reverb.

[c-man]

No organ, just piano (with masking tape on the strings) played by Don Randi, harpsichord played by Larry Knechtel, and 12-string guitar played by Carol Kaye.

[zachrwolfe]

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[Joshilyn Hoisington]

No organ, just piano (with masking tape on the strings) played by Don Randi, harpsichord played by Larry Knechtel, and 12-string guitar played by Carol Kaye.

We don't know for sure if Carol played the 12-string.  There is still the great bass question that has never been answered to my satisfaction.  Have we ruled Carl out from being there for certain?

I've never definitively decided for myself, even after listening to the session well over 500 times, whether there are two or three basses on there.  And my mind still boggles that Lyle Ritz's string bass got its own track--and is also heavy on another track.  So much weirdness.

Not to doubt your extensive knowledge, c-man, but it *really* sounds like there's an organ in there, in addition to everything else you list. Especially in the instrumental break. But I could be mistaken, of course.

It really sounds like it, sure, but I really think it's just harpsichord.  It's tricky, because it's so laden with reverb and slap.  It's not out of the question that Larry could have switched to an organ for just that spot, but isn't it more likely that it's just a heavily processed harpsichord suddenly playing in a slightly different register than it had until that point in the song?  Occam's Razor?

[c-man]

Having originally assumed there were three basses (Carol on Fender, Ray on Dano, Lyle on upright) with Carl, by default, playing the 12-string, I've since modified my opinion based on Josh's two-bass theory.  Listening to the session again a few more times, it's become clear that Brian only ever addresses two bass players specifically:  Ray on Fender (with tic-tac) and Lyle on upright.  At one point we can hear some really jazzy, un-Carl like noodling on the 12-string, hence my belief that Carol Kaye is playing that instrument (whenever Carl is rffing between takes, it tends to be Beatlesque or Memphis-y, not jazzy...jazzy chords, maybe, but not jazzy riffs).  'sides, if there are only two basses, then Carol must be playing some kind of guitar.  Now, Carl COULD be on there, too, I just haven't made out a second guitar as of yet.  There IS one place on there where another male Wilson voice can be heard over the talkback (it actually almost sounds like two Brians talking at once), indicating one of the other brothers was in the control booth, which is usually where Carl was playing from at this point, but I really think it sounds more like Dennis than Carl.  Curiously though, early in the session, Brian starts to address "the three" somethings, which I originally took to mean three bassists, but now I don't think so.  It's not three keyboardists, 'cause clearly there's only taped piano and harpsichord on there...no organ addressed or heard between takes, no third keyboardist on the AFM contract.  What sounds like organ could be harpsichord reverb or the two accordions, or reverb from some other instrument.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Here's an unprovable hypothesis:

Carol started on bass, Brian didn't like it, and switched her to Guitar.  This could explain why Carol remembers playing bass on the track and perhaps someone who feels like listening to the session could see if the guitar appears before Brian addresses the Three "-----".

Otherwise, three...woodwinds?

[guitarfool2002]

Could it be a case of Lyle overdubbing an upright part in order to give the part more presence in that already dense mix of instruments? If some can hear two upright bass parts, and one is existing on its own separate track (which would suggest an overdub as much as having Lyle isolated somewhere in that studio via baffles or even in a booth), a logical assumption might be that his original bass part which was played in the large ensemble take got "buried" too much, Brian wanted to hear it more prominently on the track, so they opened up another track and laid down another individual part.

There's no way to prove this, but it could have happened.

As far as guitar vs. bass where Carol's part comes in, she could have been playing a 12-string after showing up to play bass, but does that seem logical based on all the other sessions surrounding this one? If Carol was contracted to play bass, she'd play bass most likely if she had been contracted to play bass, and would show up for a bass session with her basses. If she were contracted to play guitar, she'd show up with guitars. And as various charts were prepared and drawn up for the session, as the session in general seems to have been very much charted out for specific melodic lines and phrases rather than left to the players' creations, I guess I'm just not seeing the purpose of doubling a supporting part like the original 12-string with another 12-string...it would seem more crucial for that orchestration to strengthen the bass line as it plays a more crucial role in the song than the guitar.

The sticking point is indeed the jazz-flavored guitar noodling between takes. That is such a perceptive comment and a great observation...Carl did not noodle like that, whereas the Wrecking Crew folks were most often heard blowing their jazz chops between takes. That is one trait across the board which helps ID who *may be* playing which parts on any of these tapes. The wild card in all of those is Glen Campbell, not that he's on this session but in general his "noodling" can go from jazz to blues to country in 10 seconds of between-take playing.

Brian's call to "the three...", if it were not three bassists, I'm guessing it was directed to the wind instruments like the flutes, chairs lined up probably in the same area of the studio floor around their mic or mics.

[DonnyL]

I think the 'organ' sound is the harpsichord and the accordions combining.

I forget the details in the last conversation about the basses, but there was at least one reason why the 'third' bass didn't seem like an overdub. I think part of it was ... they decided to put everything except that bass on only 2 tracks ... why would they not have spread everything across 3 tracks, as usual? It seems like there was intention from the start to specifically keep the bass isolated to work with later. Perhaps Brian wanted to compress it or something, or was uncertain about the role or level it was to play in the final.

[guitarfool2002]

I think the 'organ' sound is the harpsichord and the accordions combining.

I forget the details in the last conversation about the basses, but there was at least one reason why the 'third' bass didn't seem like an overdub. I think part of it was ... they decided to put everything except that bass on only 2 tracks ... why would they not have spread everything across 3 tracks, as usual? It seems like there was intention from the start to specifically keep the bass isolated to work with later. Perhaps Brian wanted to compress it or something, or was uncertain about the role or level it was to play in the final.

The one consideration is that Josh hears Lyle's upright part coming through on another track - If it were tracked live that wouldn't make sense, as the upright would most likely have gotten buried if it was recorded "open" on that studio floor and probably would not have bled over into another open mic since I can't see what other open mic they'd have Lyle's bass close to, or at least close enough to hear specific notes of a part rather than thumps or thuds. And if he were isolated, there would be no bleed-over at all, or very minimal.

Consider if Josh hears another upright bass part somewhere in those tracks, and I guess this is where my "guess" is coming from, they already had the part Lyle played "live" on tape as part of a mass of sound that was effectively locked into that recording. If he were to overdub onto an open track you'd then hear his old track as well as the more present, close-mic'ed track if it were added as an overdub.

Just guessing! 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Well one thing was that the bass has its own track throughout the session.  If it were overdubbed, why would they overdub bass on to blown takes the whole session long?  It's almost as if the bass mic was multed, that is, the same signal sent to two different tracks.  But again, why?

Wish Mark would comment on this.

[guitarfool2002]

Well one thing was that the bass has its own track throughout the session.  If it were overdubbed, why would they overdub bass on to blown takes the whole session long?  It's almost as if the bass mic was multed, that is, the same signal sent to two different tracks.  But again, why?

Wish Mark would comment on this.

Ahh, ok I misunderstood. Then it wouldn't make sense at all on the overdub theory if there are separate tracks running throughout the session. I thought you meant on a more finalized mix configuration, like the multi created to add the vocal layers.

Without having the sessions here to listen, are you saying you hear the upright bass on its own track as well as that same upright track coming from elsewhere? Do you think it's bleed-over coming through someone else's mic in the studio?

Just taking all into consideration...namely how Brian worked with 4-track in 1966, it definitely wouldn't make sense on the surface for him to have one specific track eaten up by upright bass. He could close-mic it as usual, but the question is the intent, as to why would he put over a dozen instruments onto 2 tracks and upright bass of all things onto one of its own?

Confusing as all get-out. 

[monicker]

To me, that instrument in the instrumental break sounds like a harpsichord. A harpsichord in the upper most register with lots of delay and reverb that makes it sound a lot like an organ, but a harpsichord nonetheless. And it’s there in the intro under the piano (playing an octave lower than in the break), drops out for the first verse, and then comes back in on the bass-note pick up to the second verse, continuing throughout the second verse, though it’s really buried by the guitar. What a sound.   

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Well one thing was that the bass has its own track throughout the session.  If it were overdubbed, why would they overdub bass on to blown takes the whole session long?  It's almost as if the bass mic was multed, that is, the same signal sent to two different tracks.  But again, why?

Wish Mark would comment on this.

Ahh, ok I misunderstood. Then it wouldn't make sense at all on the overdub theory if there are separate tracks running throughout the session. I thought you meant on a more finalized mix configuration, like the multi created to add the vocal layers.

Without having the sessions here to listen, are you saying you hear the upright bass on its own track as well as that same upright track coming from elsewhere? Do you think it's bleed-over coming through someone else's mic in the studio?

Just taking all into consideration...namely how Brian worked with 4-track in 1966, it definitely wouldn't make sense on the surface for him to have one specific track eaten up by upright bass. He could close-mic it as usual, but the question is the intent, as to why would he put over a dozen instruments onto 2 tracks and upright bass of all things onto one of its own?

Confusing as all get-out. 

Yes--from the raw 5.1 discrete tracks that some kind soul ripped a while ago, a string bass clearly has it's own track.  There is bleed, and it has to be live because it's all dry room sound (which is pretty fascinating in and of itself.)  It's also clear that the string bass is quite present on another track.  Now, of course it's difficult to know exactly what is being presented on these 5.1 things, I feel confident that it's more than just bleed.  I suppose it's possible that Ray's amp happened to be really close to Lyle and the mic was not especially directional or something.  But gosh, there seems to be more going on than that. 

[zachrwolfe]

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[JoelKoster]

Thanks for everyone's info!! Sorry I haven't managed to come back here in a while, For the last few weeks or so I've intensely studied (like a madman) the Instrumental sessions for God Only Knows and I'm also making an attempt to replicate the track. I also listened to the soloed Lyle Ritz Bass track from the 5.1 mix and it actually really helped me in hearing the other instruments much clearer.

For the keyboards situation on the track I have concluded that there is only a Piano and Harpsichord on the track. For that in that small instrumental break after the 2nd verse the harpsichord temporarily plays in a very high register which is why I initially thought it was an organ.

If you like you can listen to my attempt at re-creating the sound of the instrumental break. Let me know what you think

https://soundcloud.com/joel-koster/god-only-knows-instrumental

[Summer_Days]

There are also two accordions on the track, unless the liner notes to the Pet Sounds remasters are incorrect. It also says Larry Knechtel plays organ.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

There are also two accordions on the track, unless the liner notes to the Pet Sounds remasters are incorrect. It also says Larry Knechtel plays organ.

The liner notes are correct about two accordions, but wrong about so much else...

[puni puni]

If you like you can listen to my attempt at re-creating the sound of the instrumental break. Let me know what you think

https://soundcloud.com/joel-koster/god-only-knows-instrumental

Wrong notes but the sound is pretty much nailed

[zachrwolfe]

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[c-man]

It's a piano (probably an upright, from the sounds of things) with masking tape applied to the strings and played by Don Randi, and a harpsichord played by Larry Knecthel.