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Author Topic: 14 Beach Boys albums coming to vinyl/SACD  (Read 211285 times)
dcowboys107
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« Reply #400 on: March 10, 2015, 11:47:40 AM »

I was hoping for a good, clean pressing of Sunflower  since the pressing I have has a tad more surface noise and scratches than I would care for.  It's hard finding a good clean copy from what I can tell.

However, it seems that it will not live up to the original.

Edit: Spelling
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« Reply #401 on: March 10, 2015, 11:57:29 AM »

Howerver, it seems that it will not live up to the original.

No one has heard it yet.  I have heard 3 of the first 5 Hybrid SACDs from Acoustic Sounds and they should fantastic.  The best they have ever sounded in the digital medium.
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« Reply #402 on: March 10, 2015, 02:56:25 PM »

I guess I'm the only one who bought the SACDs, eh? Otherwise surely someone else would be expressing their pleasure, wouldn't they?

These discs are damn good. Whether you listen to the CD layer or venture into the real of Super Audio by flipping the switch, these discs are a very satisfying listening experience.

I'm planning on the SACDs later in the year, as I want to ge the next clutch of mono vinyl, then Holland in the bag; I suspect these may become sought after/pricey for those who come late.

So, those of you who are with, a few punters had previously complained about the CDs sounding "trebely"/harsh - do you think this has been addressed?

Do these make you get up and shake it?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 01:53:31 AM by Alan Smith » Logged

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« Reply #403 on: March 12, 2015, 01:57:22 AM »

Arrrrh, now there be pirates off the coast of old blighty!  Pirate

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BEACH-BOYS-The-Surfer-Girl-remastered-180-gram-vinyl-LP-/181687928033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4d71c4e1

(well, they got the back photo right!)
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« Reply #404 on: March 12, 2015, 02:34:28 PM »

I posted about this one before Alan and asked if anyone knew anything about t.  So many songs on 2 sides of vinyl! Grin.

The seller sold me Surfin' USA Stereo AP for 25 quid.  He's got another for sale but not any of the others.
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« Reply #405 on: March 12, 2015, 02:47:26 PM »

I posted about this one before Alan and asked if anyone knew anything about t.  So many songs on 2 sides of vinyl! Grin.

The seller sold me Surfin' USA Stereo AP for 25 quid.  He's got another for sale but not any of the others.
Oh, thanks Mike! Sorry I missed that, did you get any answers (pop me the link if you've time)?

Glad to hear you've got SUSA stereo in the bag!
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« Reply #406 on: March 12, 2015, 04:52:24 PM »

Here it is Alan:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15061.msg500670.html#msg500670

I didn't get any replies! Maybe not enough autotune in it or Mike Love stuff  Roll Eyes

I was tempted to buy it but would rather put my money towards more AP releases.

Cheers. Grin
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« Reply #407 on: March 12, 2015, 05:40:47 PM »

Arrrrh, now there be pirates off the coast of old blighty!  Pirate

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BEACH-BOYS-The-Surfer-Girl-remastered-180-gram-vinyl-LP-/181687928033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4d71c4e1

(well, they got the back photo right!)
"Surfer's Tule"
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« Reply #408 on: March 12, 2015, 06:07:58 PM »

  Cheesy Brings a whole new meaning to the song!
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« Reply #409 on: March 12, 2015, 10:05:25 PM »

Hey, it's hard to keep up with this stuff, but has the Holland CD been released yet? If not, do we have any sort of release date?
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« Reply #410 on: March 12, 2015, 11:09:33 PM »

I was told Holland would be around May. Not long in the scheme of things…
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« Reply #411 on: March 12, 2015, 11:11:17 PM »

I was told Holland would be around May. Not long in the scheme of things…

Thanks John. The sites where it's being sold really don't tell you much of anything.
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« Reply #412 on: March 21, 2015, 07:07:45 PM »

Having purchased the mono and stereo Analogue Productions BB LPs released thus far, I broke down today and finally decided to do a sonic comparison of one (and only one!) stereo track on one of the new LPs, in order to compare it to the original 1964 Capitol Rainbow label LP, the 1986 Capitol dark Green Label LP reissue, and the Capitol 1994 Rainbow Label LP reissue, (all US versions).

I decided to focus on Keep an Eye on Summer due to the irritating sibilance found on Brian's vocals on parts of this song on the original release, along with the prominent tape glitch at nine seconds in and a less prominent tape glitch at 34 seconds in, and added the 1971 Capitol Lime Green Label with purple logo reissue (album retitled Fun Fun Fun) to the comparison mix.  

Here are my impressions, concentrating only on Keep an Eye on Summer:

1964 original Capitol Rainbow Label LP - Irritating sibilance (a hissy distortion) on "s" sounds, but somewhat muted compared to some other versions, indicating high end was rolled off somewhat to make it less objectionable.  Tape glitch at 9 sec is there, but not as apparent as on some other dubs from the master tape.  Tape glitch at 34 sec is much less noticeable than the one at 9 exc.

1971 Capitol Lime Green with purple logo LP reissue - Both the bass and treble are accentuated, compared to the original LP.  The sibilance is a little more prominent, due to the pumped up high end, but it's still relatively muted, again with the high end sounding somewhat rolled off on the offending parts.  Glitches sound same as the 1964 original.  I prefer this sound compared to the original, as it sounds much fuller due to the added bass.

1986 Capitol Dark Green Label LP reissue - Sounds essentially similar to the 1971 Capitol Lime Green Label reissue, but the tape glitches are more noticeable.  Overall, the listening experience comes across as more satisfying, probably because of less surface noise than the 1971 LP and significantly less surface noise than the 1964 LP, in both cases due to wear.

1994 Capitol Rainbow Label LP reissue - The upper mids and treble have really been pumped up on this one, causing Brian's voice to sound somewhat strident and more prominent in the mix.  Even with more treble than previous versions, overall the s's are dramatically smoother than on previous versions, so this version is the best yet from a sibilance standpoint.  But, I'm not a fan of BW's voice being pumped up, EQ wise, to this extent, and overall this version is definitely not as smooth or enjoyable to listen to as the 1964 original or the 1971 and 1986 reissues.  The tape glitch at 9 sec is perhaps slightly more noticeable than previously, but virtually inaudible at 34 sec.  Thinking this version may well be from the digital master used to make the 1990 Capitol twofer CD, I gave that CD a listen, as well as the same track on Summer Love Songs from 2009.  The two CD versions sound very close to this 1994 LP, except that there is no sibilance issue on the CDs. (It should be noted that sibilance issues do not necessarily come from the original master recording, but rather can be created by the cutting head when a vinyl record is mastered.  Also, a record can be mastered without sibilance, but a phono cartridge may have issues tracking the s's, causing sibilance to be heard.)  This 1994 LP is also the only version of the song that has some slight pre-echo before it begins.  Additionally, the "c" in "can hear" suffers from a slight initial prominence, sorta like the sound you get when touching your tongue to the roof of your mouth.  Despite the vastly improved sibilance issue on the LP, and completely eradicated sibilance on the CD versions, this is easily my least favorite sounding version of the song due to the boosted upper midrange and treble on Brian's voice.

2015 Analogue Productions Capitol Rainbow LP reissue - Hands down the best sounding version by far.  Absolutely no sibilance on the "s's", although the odd sound on the "c" in "can hear" is there, as it is on the CDs and the 1994 LP.  Tape glitches same as on the above LP and the CDs.  BW's voice is smoother and not near as strident as on the 1994 LP and BB CDs, but it is brighter than on the original 1964, 1971, and 1986 LPs, causing me to conclude that on those earlier releases the high end on Brian's voice was reduced to compensate for the sibilance, and doing so also gave his voice a more mellow sound.  (And perhaps rolling off the highs somewhat was standard LP mastering practice back then.)  Overall, IMO, this new LP contains the smoothest and cleanest sounding version of KAEOS available.  And the vinyl itself is very quiet, with super low surface noise, although I have heard some clicks here and there on the BB Analogue Productions LPs, although none on the song in question, and far fewer than on most LPs.  

I should add that I'm not in the camp that feels vinyl LPs sound inherently better than CDs.  In fact, on vinyl LPs, clicks and pops, noisy pressings, pressing defects such as non-fill, and record wear, especially when using sub-standard equipment, can drive me crazy.  Back in the 70s I actually bought a device to get rid of clicks and pops, a Burwen Transient Noise Eliminator TNE-7000.  Loved using it, but some purists insisted such a device could alter the phase of a recording, and preferred listening with loud clicks and pops zinging directly at them from the speakers.  When CDs came out I was ecstatic - no irritating clicks and pops or surface noise, etc.  In very short order I got into CDs and soon got rid of most of my LPs (but not all, among the stuff I kept was almost everything I had by The Beach Boys) and replaced my old vinyl with CDs.  Loved the pristine sound and the fact that I could put a bunch of CDs in a changer and program it to skip the tracks I didn't want to hear.  

But a couple of decades later I missed the experience of listening to vinyl, and today I find it to be a more organic way of listening - enjoying the album art work, followed by gently removing the album from the cover, placing it on the turntable, often running a carbon fiber brush along the grooves, and watching the cart and stylus track the record.  So after rejoicing years ago that I was free of vinyl's limitations, I now find the hands-on experience of listening to vinyl records to be highly satisfying.  And even when the sonic differences between a CD and a pristine LP may not be that great, the psychic gratification of really being into the mode of sound reproduction you are listening to can be intoxicating, as evidenced by those who insist that hi-res recordings sound better than standard resolution CDs, even though, to my knowledge, there has never been one person capable of passing a controlled double-blind listening test where they could differentiate between a hi-res recording of music vs the same exact recording at standard CD resolution with any repeatable statistical significance.  (And, yeah, I know the arguments against double blind listening tests, like "It's too stressful, and thus invalid," "Maybe the switching box introduces some type of as yet to be identified distortion," "High-res has to sound better, because it uses more data," "But I'll lose my job as a reviewer if I claim I don't hear any difference," "What if Neil Young finds out and doesn't give me back stage passes," etc.)

Anyway, if you're into vinyl I would highly recommend the Analogue Productions Beach Boys reissue LPs.  I've thoroughly enjoyed the first 9 (5 mono and 4 stereo) so far.  They sound absolutely great to me, so, as mentioned, today I broke down and decided I had to spend way too much time going back and forth comparing a song on one of the new LPs to same song on the original vinyl LP as well as previous LP reissues and a couple of CDs.

One more thing - Just listened to the mono mix of Keep and Eye on Summer from the new Analogue Productions mono version of Shut Down Vol 2.  Sounds great!  Don't have an original mono LP to compare it to.  Tape glitch even less evident, although still there at 9 sec in, so it's obviously on the original multi-track of BW's voice.  I prefer the stereo mix to the mono of this particular track, but there is a lot of stuff from the sixties where the mono mix sounds dramatically fuller and punchier and is much more satisfying to listen to.

And, that being said, I'm also looking forward to the hybrid dual layer SACD/CDs, but will pick up the LPs first.

Finally, thanks to any and all who geeked out and read this entire post.  Hope we get some additional opinions of these new LPs posted here soon.  Haven't checked the Hoffman board in ages, so think I'll head over there next.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 12:36:23 AM by Custom Machine » Logged
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« Reply #413 on: March 21, 2015, 07:22:52 PM »

Thanks Custom Machine! Very well done review and you're making me want to buy them.  I hope to see more reviews and comments on here as well. Please keep us up to date.
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« Reply #414 on: March 21, 2015, 08:32:22 PM »

Let me preface this by saying that I think that my enthusiasm for this reissue project has gone unnoticed, based on the lack of replies to my previous posts.  So maybe if I do this in long form it will get the right attention.

I'm what I would term a 'middle of the road' audiophile.  The things that are most important to me are that a title is mastered well, not brick walled and with the use of the earliest generation tapes.  I don't own a ton of equipment.  Literally, I have a nice laptop and a decent pair of headphones.  That's it.  I don't do vinyl because I have serious OCD and would never want to handle something that delicately and then have to store it.  I prefer just compact discs or hi-res downloads. 

As kind of a guide post for Beach Boys in the digital domain, I think the best sounding discs until 2015 were the 3 main releases on the DCC label.  Endless Summer, Spirit of America & Pet Sounds, all mastered by Steve Hoffman (more on that later).  The overall warmth and resonance found on those releases to me equated to the best experience one could have listening to the Beach Boys on CD. 

Fast forward to last year when the Acoustic Sounds catalog first came out and these were announced.  14 titles from the Beach Boys core catalog being remastered by non other than a Steve Hoffman's mentor, Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio.  I mean, this announcement was basically like a smoke signal that "hey, the full catalog is finally going to sound 'right'".  And I say that knowing it may come off as a slight to someone like Mark Linett.  I'm quite fond of Mark's work on the Good Vibrations Box Set and The Pet Sounds Sessions.  But, I'm less of a fan of some of the more contemporary best of discs that contain stereo remixes and or partial mono remixes.  Although, I'm quite happy with The Smile Sessions and bits and pieces of Made in California.  I have an open mind, I'm not completely set in my ways with any one mastering engineer.  I think there are definitely titles that are best heard mastered by this person or that person though, that is for sure.

Which brings me back to the Analogue Productions project.  2014 unfolded with almost no news at all about these reissues and then the Winter 2014 catalog came and finally, news!  These were finally going to come out.  Of course the first five vinyl titles were released in late 2014/early 2015 but that wasn't what really made me hold my breath.  It was the release of the hybrid SACDs.  I don't have an SACD player so the main attraction for me is of course the redbook CD layer.  With the first five releases, I purchased three: Surfin' U.S.A., Surfer Girl & Shut Down Volume 2.  My reasons for not getting Surfin' Safari and Little Deuce Coupe were based on cost vs. need.  Most of the tracks from both that I would ever want to hear, with maybe a single exception, are on one of the DCC discs and probably sound roughly the same aurally. 

With the titles that I did purchase, I could not be happier.  And here's why:

- First: The presentation — I'm not really bothered by the fact that the back cover art isn't 100% like the original...it's a hybrid SACD for heaven's sake.  The SACD jewel cases are classy and unique next to the rest of my Beach Boys CD collection.
- Second: The tape research (Linett/Boyd) — Not being a chest thumping Beach Boys historian (no offense to anyone) I can't absolutely claim this to be completely factual.   However, it sounds to me like all of the right mixes were chosen and I have to figure that if anyone would know it would be these two.  I do know that it's so nice to finally have unfutzed with true mono mixes.  One of the main selling points of the collection to me is original mono mixes.
- Third: The sound (Kevin Gray) — Descriptions such as "warm" or whatever are relative to each listener.  Any listen can affix whatever adjective they please to the sound of any given recording.  But to me, as a guy that has what I would consider a very nice laptop and a decent pair of headphones, these tracks on the three titles I mentioned above sound completely uncompressed, "warm", and "pure".  Looking at the wave files (a practice I chuckle at, even while doing it); it's clear that practically no compression was added to these tracks. They look like they sound, "perfect".

So all of that said, I posted my thoughts on the Hoffman forum about these titles and apparently someone took my effusive praise of these titles as a slight towards the host of that site and the post was deleted.  If you do a search there, you'll find the main thread discussing the SACDs (thread started by yours truly) you'll note that I mention early in that thread that one of the things I made a point of doing is comparing "like for like" tracks.  So, a stereo mix of "Catch a Wave" from Endless Summer DCC, compared to stereo mix of the same song on Surfer Girl AP.  They sound virtually identical.  I later fleshed out that thought basically explaining that I felt like these discs, the Analogue Productions discs, were the essential releases of these titles on cd.  The best they have ever sounded.  And basically that the perfect companion piece to the DCC releases.  Well, someone felt like that follow up posting was somehow "poking 'the host' in the eye".  I guess insults truly can be in the eye of the beholder.  What I felt was a true and deep compliment about my adoration of both the DCC releases and the AP releases was taken another way by some or multiple people.  Go figure.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At the end of the day, are these worth $30 bucks a pop?  That's of course a personal decision.  If having "Denny's Drums" in the best possible sound isn't right up your alley then maybe these should be a "pass".  However, if you want to have the core catalog of albums in perhaps the best sound you can buy short of breaking into the Capitol vaults and playing them back yourself...  look no further.  And again I'll say that if you are an audiophile and perhaps already have the Hoffman mastered DCC discs, you'll know what you are getting into with these.  They are the perfect companion to those releases.  But, I digress.

Can't wait for the next batch!
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« Reply #415 on: March 21, 2015, 10:33:11 PM »

Many thanks JCM and Custom Machine for adding to the endorsements of these releases and making me even more sure that this is what I want to spend my daughter's pocket money on this year.
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« Reply #416 on: March 22, 2015, 04:16:32 AM »

Thank you Custom Machine and JCM for these in-depth analyses. JCM, sounds like your experience at the Hoffman boards was frustrating. I guess that can be a very strange place. But then, so can this place!
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« Reply #417 on: March 22, 2015, 02:48:01 PM »

Thank you Custom Machine and JCM.

JCM I didn't see your original review on the Hoffman board but it's a shame someone deleted it.  Just like the whole original AP vnyl thread which was deleted.
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« Reply #418 on: March 24, 2015, 03:18:08 AM »

Having purchased the mono and stereo Analogue Productions BB LPs released thus far, I broke down today and finally decided to do a sonic comparison of one (and only one!) stereo track on one of the new LPs, in order to compare it to the original 1964 Capitol Rainbow label LP, the 1986 Capitol dark Green Label LP reissue, and the Capitol 1994 Rainbow Label LP reissue, (all US versions).

I decided to focus on Keep an Eye on Summer due to the irritating sibilance found on Brian's vocals on parts of this song on the original release, along with the prominent tape glitch at nine seconds in and a less prominent tape glitch at 34 seconds in, and added the 1971 Capitol Lime Green Label with purple logo reissue (album retitled Fun Fun Fun) to the comparison mix.  

Here are my impressions, concentrating only on Keep an Eye on Summer:

1964 original Capitol Rainbow Label LP - Irritating sibilance (a hissy distortion) on "s" sounds, but somewhat muted compared to some other versions, indicating high end was rolled off somewhat to make it less objectionable.  Tape glitch at 9 sec is there, but not as apparent as on some other dubs from the master tape.  Tape glitch at 34 sec is much less noticeable than the one at 9 exc.

1971 Capitol Lime Green with purple logo LP reissue - Both the bass and treble are accentuated, compared to the original LP.  The sibilance is a little more prominent, due to the pumped up high end, but it's still relatively muted, again with the high end sounding somewhat rolled off on the offending parts.  Glitches sound same as the 1964 original.  I prefer this sound compared to the original, as it sounds much fuller due to the added bass.

1986 Capitol Dark Green Label LP reissue - Sounds essentially similar to the 1971 Capitol Lime Green Label reissue, but the tape glitches are more noticeable.  Overall, the listening experience comes across as more satisfying, probably because of less surface noise than the 1971 LP and significantly less surface noise than the 1964 LP, in both cases due to wear.

1994 Capitol Rainbow Label LP reissue - The upper mids and treble have really been pumped up on this one, causing Brian's voice to sound somewhat strident and more prominent in the mix.  Even with more treble than previous versions, overall the s's are dramatically smoother than on previous versions, so this version is the best yet from a sibilance standpoint.  But, I'm not a fan of BW's voice being pumped up, EQ wise, to this extent, and overall this version is definitely not as smooth or enjoyable to listen to as the 1964 original or the 1971 and 1986 reissues.  The tape glitch at 9 sec is perhaps slightly more noticeable than previously, but virtually inaudible at 34 sec.  Thinking this version may well be from the digital master used to make the 1990 Capitol twofer CD, I gave that CD a listen, as well as the same track on Summer Love Songs from 2009.  The two CD versions sound very close to this 1994 LP, except that there is no sibilance issue on the CDs. (It should be noted that sibilance issues do not necessarily come from the original master recording, but rather can be created by the cutting head when a vinyl record is mastered.  Also, a record can be mastered without sibilance, but a phono cartridge may have issues tracking the s's, causing sibilance to be heard.)  This 1994 LP is also the only version of the song that has some slight pre-echo before it begins.  Additionally, the "c" in "can hear" suffers from a slight initial prominence, sorta like the sound you get when touching your tongue to the roof of your mouth.  Despite the vastly improved sibilance issue on the LP, and completely eradicated sibilance on the CD versions, this is easily my least favorite sounding version of the song due to the boosted upper midrange and treble on Brian's voice.

2015 Analogue Productions Capitol Rainbow LP reissue - Hands down the best sounding version by far.  Absolutely no sibilance on the "s's", although the odd sound on the "c" in "can hear" is there, as it is on the CDs and the 1994 LP.  Tape glitches same as on the above LP and the CDs.  BW's voice is smoother and not near as strident as on the 1994 LP and BB CDs, but it is brighter than on the original 1964, 1971, and 1986 LPs, causing me to conclude that on those earlier releases the high end on Brian's voice was reduced to compensate for the sibilance, and doing so also gave his voice a more mellow sound.  (And perhaps rolling off the highs somewhat was standard LP mastering practice back then.)  Overall, IMO, this new LP contains the smoothest and cleanest sounding version of KAEOS available.  And the vinyl itself is very quiet, with super low surface noise, although I have heard some clicks here and there on the BB Analogue Productions LPs, although none on the song in question, and far fewer than on most LPs.  

One more thing - Just listened to the mono mix of Keep and Eye on Summer from the new Analogue Productions mono version of Shut Down Vol 2.  Sounds great!  Don't have an original mono LP to compare it to.  Tape glitch even less evident, although still there at 9 sec in, so it's obviously on the original multi-track of BW's voice.  I prefer the stereo mix to the mono of this particular track, but there is a lot of stuff from the sixties where the mono mix sounds dramatically fuller and punchier and is much more satisfying to listen to.

And, that being said, I'm also looking forward to the hybrid dual layer SACD/CDs, but will pick up the LPs first.

Finally, thanks to any and all who geeked out and read this entire post.  Hope we get some additional opinions of these new LPs posted here soon.  Haven't checked the Hoffman board in ages, so think I'll head over there next.



Custom, thanks so much for the indepth review including the effort you put into A/B/C/D/E'ing, you are a more patient man than I - and a great idea to really drill down on one song, nice approach.

Interesting observations re the quality of the '86 dark green reissue, as these pressings seem to be held in high regard - and given the more recent vintage pressing, less likely to be completely beat to hell (as per a '60s pressing).  Also interesting to hear the '94 LP has some pre-echo; I suspect a quality control issue allowing elapsed time twixt the lacquer being cut to plated to exceed 16 or so hours (as per Stephen Desper a few pages back).

I also recall the '90 twofers were No-Noised, perhaps some influence, then, on the vinyl pressing; to what extent, I cannot say.

Definitely geeked-out - I'm having some tech issues with the Thorens at the moment, and until I can get a chap to take a look at it, the vinyl playing has slowed down a little.  In the short term only of course.

Btw, what's kind of rig and cart are you using? - thanks again - A
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« Reply #419 on: March 24, 2015, 03:51:21 AM »

Let me preface this by saying that I think that my enthusiasm for this reissue project has gone unnoticed, based on the lack of replies to my previous posts.  So maybe if I do this in long form it will get the right attention.

I'm what I would term a 'middle of the road' audiophile.  The things that are most important to me are that a title is mastered well, not brick walled and with the use of the earliest generation tapes.  I don't own a ton of equipment.  Literally, I have a nice laptop and a decent pair of headphones.  That's it.  I don't do vinyl because I have serious OCD and would never want to handle something that delicately and then have to store it.  I prefer just compact discs or hi-res downloads. 

As kind of a guide post for Beach Boys in the digital domain, I think the best sounding discs until 2015 were the 3 main releases on the DCC label.  Endless Summer, Spirit of America & Pet Sounds, all mastered by Steve Hoffman (more on that later).  The overall warmth and resonance found on those releases to me equated to the best experience one could have listening to the Beach Boys on CD. 

Fast forward to last year when the Acoustic Sounds catalog first came out and these were announced.  14 titles from the Beach Boys core catalog being remastered by non other than a Steve Hoffman's mentor, Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio.  I mean, this announcement was basically like a smoke signal that "hey, the full catalog is finally going to sound 'right'".  And I say that knowing it may come off as a slight to someone like Mark Linett.  I'm quite fond of Mark's work on the Good Vibrations Box Set and The Pet Sounds Sessions.  But, I'm less of a fan of some of the more contemporary best of discs that contain stereo remixes and or partial mono remixes.  Although, I'm quite happy with The Smile Sessions and bits and pieces of Made in California.  I have an open mind, I'm not completely set in my ways with any one mastering engineer.  I think there are definitely titles that are best heard mastered by this person or that person though, that is for sure.

Which brings me back to the Analogue Productions project.  2014 unfolded with almost no news at all about these reissues and then the Winter 2014 catalog came and finally, news!  These were finally going to come out.  Of course the first five vinyl titles were released in late 2014/early 2015 but that wasn't what really made me hold my breath.  It was the release of the hybrid SACDs.  I don't have an SACD player so the main attraction for me is of course the redbook CD layer.  With the first five releases, I purchased three: Surfin' U.S.A., Surfer Girl & Shut Down Volume 2.  My reasons for not getting Surfin' Safari and Little Deuce Coupe were based on cost vs. need.  Most of the tracks from both that I would ever want to hear, with maybe a single exception, are on one of the DCC discs and probably sound roughly the same aurally. 

With the titles that I did purchase, I could not be happier.  And here's why:

- First: The presentation — I'm not really bothered by the fact that the back cover art isn't 100% like the original...it's a hybrid SACD for heaven's sake.  The SACD jewel cases are classy and unique next to the rest of my Beach Boys CD collection.
- Second: The tape research (Linett/Boyd) — Not being a chest thumping Beach Boys historian (no offense to anyone) I can't absolutely claim this to be completely factual.   However, it sounds to me like all of the right mixes were chosen and I have to figure that if anyone would know it would be these two.  I do know that it's so nice to finally have unfutzed with true mono mixes.  One of the main selling points of the collection to me is original mono mixes.
- Third: The sound (Kevin Gray) — Descriptions such as "warm" or whatever are relative to each listener.  Any listen can affix whatever adjective they please to the sound of any given recording.  But to me, as a guy that has what I would consider a very nice laptop and a decent pair of headphones, these tracks on the three titles I mentioned above sound completely uncompressed, "warm", and "pure".  Looking at the wave files (a practice I chuckle at, even while doing it); it's clear that practically no compression was added to these tracks. They look like they sound, "perfect".

So all of that said, I posted my thoughts on the Hoffman forum about these titles and apparently someone took my effusive praise of these titles as a slight towards the host of that site and the post was deleted.  If you do a search there, you'll find the main thread discussing the SACDs (thread started by yours truly) you'll note that I mention early in that thread that one of the things I made a point of doing is comparing "like for like" tracks.  So, a stereo mix of "Catch a Wave" from Endless Summer DCC, compared to stereo mix of the same song on Surfer Girl AP.  They sound virtually identical.  I later fleshed out that thought basically explaining that I felt like these discs, the Analogue Productions discs, were the essential releases of these titles on cd.  The best they have ever sounded.  And basically that the perfect companion piece to the DCC releases.  Well, someone felt like that follow up posting was somehow "poking 'the host' in the eye".  I guess insults truly can be in the eye of the beholder.  What I felt was a true and deep compliment about my adoration of both the DCC releases and the AP releases was taken another way by some or multiple people.  Go figure.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At the end of the day, are these worth $30 bucks a pop?  That's of course a personal decision.  If having "Denny's Drums" in the best possible sound isn't right up your alley then maybe these should be a "pass".  However, if you want to have the core catalog of albums in perhaps the best sound you can buy short of breaking into the Capitol vaults and playing them back yourself...  look no further.  And again I'll say that if you are an audiophile and perhaps already have the Hoffman mastered DCC discs, you'll know what you are getting into with these.  They are the perfect companion to those releases.  But, I digress.

Can't wait for the next batch!

JCM - too bad this board doesn't have a "like" function.  I think you've made a consistently great contribution to this topic - I don't always, or rarely, have a lot to add to your observations/info.

And yeah, Hoff board - I also hang around there a little, mainly for info - and I must say the deletions/edits/strange sh*t in relation to these reissues is kinda baffling.  I had a few of my posts ditched, specifically those linking to posts here - go figure.

Anyway, thanks for the news about the sound, and your particular focus on the redbook layer, which is going to have the most appeal to a many here - ultimately, we hope the good stuff is in the mastering - which should shine through in either format - and I'm delighted to hear that A/P with Kevin Gray's able assistance have delivered.

As mentioned in my response to Custom Machine, my record player needs some TLC, which may or may not mean I'll move on these SACDs earlier than anticipated.

Look, I still think A/P could have done a better job on the artwork - and I think it's important to keep consistent approach across all elements.  And why not provide some info re the provenance of the sources; I don't doubt A/P's intent to provide the best versions they can, so why not list off where they could and indicate explicitly where they had to use an alternative.

That aside, sounds like I'm in for a treat, when I get my sh*t together - and definitely looking forward to your thoughts about that next batch.

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« Reply #420 on: March 24, 2015, 08:51:29 PM »


Custom, thanks so much for the indepth review including the effort you put into A/B/C/D/E'ing, you are a more patient man than I - and a great idea to really drill down on one song, nice approach.

Interesting observations re the quality of the '86 dark green reissue, as these pressings seem to be held in high regard - and given the more recent vintage pressing, less likely to be completely beat to hell (as per a '60s pressing).  Also interesting to hear the '94 LP has some pre-echo; I suspect a quality control issue allowing elapsed time twixt the lacquer being cut to plated to exceed 16 or so hours (as per Stephen Desper a few pages back).

I also recall the '90 twofers were No-Noised, perhaps some influence, then, on the vinyl pressing; to what extent, I cannot say.

Definitely geeked-out - I'm having some tech issues with the Thorens at the moment, and until I can get a chap to take a look at it, the vinyl playing has slowed down a little.  In the short term only of course.

Btw, what's kind of rig and cart are you using? - thanks again - A


Alan, as a Thorens owner you may be disappointed to hear that I used a direct drive turntable from the late seventies, a Technics SL-1650.  (In fact I like it so much I bought second one about a year later, used in another part of the house.)  I first got into stereo systems in the era of Garrards and Duals in the sixties and seventies, so when I bought the 1650 I wanted to get a turntable that was fully automatic, as I’m not into jumping up pick up the tonearm at the end of the record, and also like to simply flick a switch and walk away as the record starts and the tonearm descends.  I also wanted a quick-start high torque motor for back cueing when I made recordings.  (These days back cueing is no long a requirement as I now digitize my recordings from vinyl using Sony Sound Forge Mac.)  Many audiophiles will gasp at the thought, but the 1650 can function as a changer as well.  I typically use it in the fully automatic single disc mode, but I'll switch to the changer mode for 45 singles and sometimes albums, as it drops records gently and flawlessly with only the labels touching (as well as the outer lip in the case of 12 inch discs).

What model Thorens are you using and what cart?  Thorens has made some incredibly great looking tables over the years, not to mention their superb craftsmanship and high audio quality, and I’ve considered picking up one with a walnut base some day to add to the mix, but due to the price and the numerous computer and electronics devices I’m generally lusting over, so far that hasn’t happened, not to mention Mrs. Custom Machine wondering why I say I need more stuff when I’ve got separate stereo or surround sound AV systems located throughout the house.  And Mrs. Custom Machine probably has a valid point, since most of those systems are inner-connected with a distribution amp (as well as Apple Air Play), so a turntable isn’t necessarily needed in each room, and adding another one would give me my 10th turntable in the house, the others being found in three jukeboxes, a Garrard which is used exclusively for checking 78 rpm records for two of the jukeboxes, a Garrard in storage, and two school record players along with some kiddie records (plus some Beach Boys stuff) to get the young grandkids into playing vinyl when they come over.  (Yes, I am a senior member of this board!)

I used a Pickering 625 DJ for the comparisons.  It is a DJ cart, since it features a cantilever that is a little more robust than many others, but I enjoy its mellow and nicely balanced sound so much that I have 2 in my current line-up of available carts mounted in Technics headshells, (and since it’s no longer manufactured, 4 in unopened containers for future use).  Other carts I currently have mounted on Technics headshells that I considered for the listening comparison include a Pickering XSV-3000 with stereohedron stylus, a Shure M-111HE with hyperelliptical stylus, and a recently installed NOS Shure M-94E.  Nothing exotic or high end, and since all are in Technics headshells they can be easily and quickly changed out.  In deciding what cart to use, since neither the stereohedron nor the hyperelliptical styli were available when Shut Down Vol. 2 was released I decided to use a cart and stylus that would have been more typical at the time the album was released, hence the decision to go with the 625 DJ.

The receiver was a Denon AVR-2800 driving Sennheiser HD-580 phones.

Sorry to go into so much detail in answering your question, but I love talking about audio equipment, plus had to offer an explanation for those thinking (and are probably still thinking), “Why does this guy have systems all over his house when he could have gone with one or two systems with more exotic equipment?”

« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 11:18:46 PM by Custom Machine » Logged
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« Reply #421 on: March 25, 2015, 12:59:49 PM »

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« Reply #422 on: March 27, 2015, 09:27:17 PM »

Like!
LOL Me too!

CustomMachine: Alan, as a Thorens owner you may be disappointed to hear that I used a direct drive turntable from the late seventies, a Technics SL-1650.  when I bought the 1650 I wanted to get a turntable that was fully automatic, as I’m not into jumping up pick up the tonearm at the end of the record, and also like to simply flick a switch and walk away as the record starts and the tonearm descends. 


Al: Custom, definitely not disappointed to hear this.  I am certainly no belt-drive snob.  In fact, I've been thinking of picking up Pioneers PLX-1000 - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/DJ/Turntable/PLX-1000 - and moth-balling the Thorensi (yes, pural, as you will read later) until I have the cash and time to invest in them further.  That said, I'm still to work out the financial choreography involved in getting a new table (turntable vs barnyard gate, fence, gutters, backsteps waiting some repair)

Technics are fantastic units, with great sound, you have a real keeper!

CM: What model Thorens are you using and what cart?
My current Thorens is a TD 166 (first version not a mark 2).  This model was basically a reissue of the 165, noted as the little brother of the TD 160.

Currently in near factory original condition, although the dust cover needs replacing due to severe abuse by the original owner; and I've 'ucking with it a little bit.  Cart wise, it came with a Grace F-9 Gold cartridge, a sort after MM Japanese cart from the '70s, although the original cantiliever was bent - I secured a custom original via Sound Smith in New Jersey, USA, for not much more than the price of an Ortofon Blue.

The Thorens 16X models are a bit of a bastard re VTA, so I recently added some aluminium shims - but I don't know: I think it's ruined the ride a bit, hence time to call in a guy to sort out the set-up - depending on the quote, I may temporarily go the Technics.

I have also used above mentioned Ortofon Blue - the ortofon is definitely brighter, but I prefer the Grace combo: having said that, Sound-Smith do offer higher end styli that may change the game.

I have recently been "gifted" a TD 160 that has been modded with a Grace-707 tone arm (which will be a perfect match for the Grace cart), although I need to re-solder the cart connections.  The 160 has also been modded with a Bride of Zen pre-amp, as the guy I got it from didn't have an amp with a sound stage, so the integrated pre-amp provides the boost required to use standard line level inputs. 

The 160 comes with a customer plinth, but is damaged - my brother-in-law is a cabinet maker and general fiddler, so I've kicked off discussion about how he's going to help me out with a bitchin' plinth  Grin  The mods mentioned above, while delivering the sonic goods weren't done with asthetics in mind, so I'll be slowly looking to bring things up to the quality of stuff that Dave from Vinyl Nirvana brings to the table.  Having said that, if you can get a hold of a TD 160 in reasonable nick at a yard sale or via word of mouth, all you have to do is top up the bearing oil, get a new belt and stick on a new cart (bottom mounted).

Prior to the 166, I was using a Denon DP 300f - belt driven but full auto; I went full auto as the wife and 13 year old daughter like to play vinyl as well, but find the Thorens a bit daunting, including the requirement to hover and ensure the tone arm is manually raised at the end of side.  However, the Denon sounded like total sh*t (heavy mids with no roll off), despite the good reviews they seem to garner.  Baffling.

I currently pump the 166 through Arcam FMJ A18 integrated amp, matched with a set of Paradigm Atom monitor (v6) book shelfs only at the moment.  For SACD and CD, I use a Pioneer DVD Blu Ray Player (BDP-150) via a Cambridge Audio DAC magic (on rolling loan from a generous friend).  A humble set-up, but I'm happy for the results it affords for relatively little expenditure.

CM: I used a Pickering 625 DJ for the comparisons.  In deciding what cart to use, since neither the stereohedron nor the hyperelliptical styli were available when Shut Down Vol. 2 was released I decided to use a cart and stylus that would have been more typical at the time the album was released, hence the decision to go with the 625 DJ.

Al: Brilliant stuff  Bow, what a great approach, so thorough! Michael Fremer has posted his thoughts on analogplanet, which I think are pretty cool - however, I think you've really nailed and bested his approach despite his ludicrously priced play back system, purely given you've put a lot of thought into the playback media, rather than just lavishing the playback medium (not to mention your targeted passion for the this music)

CM: had to offer an explanation for those thinking (and are probably still thinking), “Why does this guy have systems all over his house when he could have gone with one or two systems with more exotic equipment?”

Al: There is never any need to explain  Smiley  Does Mrs CustomMachine have any relatives from Vladivostok, Ireland or South Africa?  I'm getting the feeling she may be related to someone I hang-out with  LOL
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« Reply #423 on: March 28, 2015, 06:04:19 AM »

CM has a custom record (machine) Grin
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« Reply #424 on: March 28, 2015, 02:45:10 PM »

CM has a custom record (machine) Grin
Grin stereophonic speaker set with vibrasonic sound

Have you bought any of the reissues yet (just asking, not orderin' ya to get your wallet out)?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 02:50:41 PM by Alan Smith » Logged

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