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Author Topic: 14 Beach Boys albums coming to vinyl/SACD  (Read 211340 times)
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« Reply #275 on: December 18, 2014, 07:40:37 PM »

Then there are two SACD reissue programmes, one from AP and one from Capitol Japan.

Well, let me re-think this. Maybe the SACD's will sound as good or better than the vinyl. If you can hear that nice warm analog sound on SACD, you won't need to spring for the vinyl. It's a matter of preference for dog-eared audiophiles, but there's a reason that vinyl is making a comeback in the past few years. On the other hand, hardware might be a consideration too - not all CD/Video players play SACD's, but buying one of those is cheaper than upgrading the stereo equipment to play the vinyl....

And the cool thing about the AP/Acoustic Sounds SACD's coming in 2015 is they are Hybrid-SACD's.  Playable on any CD player because of the two layers.  So even if one doesn't have access to an SACD player, they can still enjoy Kevin Gray's mastering job.  That's the selling point for me.
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« Reply #276 on: December 18, 2014, 11:59:39 PM »

... but buying one of those is cheaper than upgrading the stereo equipment to play the vinyl....

I can't resist that vinyl but can't afford to cut a slot in my CD player big enough for an LP. I think a fruit bowl might be the solution.

Can the collectors here speculate on the value of a unique vinyl analogue fruit bowl bearing a Kevin Gray remastered version of We Got Love? I guess we're talking hundreds of dollars, right?
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« Reply #277 on: December 19, 2014, 01:52:31 PM »

Curious that there are two vinyl reissue programmes running concurrently, with Party! being the only LP to feature in both.
Is it??  I missed that, do you have a link at all?

As per Mike-D, Mikie and your good self, I've also been a bit curious about the current(ish) reissue manouveres.

So, we "started" with a run of 2012 CD reissues by Capitol/EMI, which were in response to what "seemed" to be initially a Japan only outing.

It was later announced these titles would then be reissued on neo-duluxo vinyl and SACD by Analogue Productions, which as we know have taken a while to emerge.

Capitol/UME have subsequently reissued on vinyl/and seem to be planning to reissue on vinyl pretty much everything else in the tank - except for Wild Honey  Cry - I am unaware if Capitol/UME are planning any CD reissues of the rest.

Just guessing the splintering of the catalogue and also the Acoustic Sounds delay were caused by the UME purchase of EMI, and therefore Capitol, back in 2012.  Perhaps the deal with Analogue Productions may have been cut before the EMI buy-out (beats me, I'm just an office worker type) and since then UME have decided to reissue in house.

But as bgas speculates, it's money for jam letting someone else reissue your stuff for you. Crazy days.

Anyway, let me also add another request for a vinyl boxed edition - interesting to see if anything emerges (unlikely).

And, John, an analogue fruit bowl would only net the collectors bucks if it was etched with a picture of a grapefruit from a grapefruit tree

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« Reply #278 on: December 19, 2014, 02:18:53 PM »

Curious that there are two vinyl reissue programmes running concurrently, with Party! being the only LP to feature in both.
Is it??  I missed that, do you have a link …?

My bad - a symptom of my state of confusion. Though just tonight Amazon Uk has listed a vinyl "Love You" as a preorder for September 2016. That's not helped at all!

Quote from: Alan Smith
And, John, an analogue fruit bowl would only net the collectors bucks if it was etched with a picture of a grapefruit from a grapefruit tree.

But wouldn't the etching affect playback and even harbour bacteria that could taint the fruit?
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« Reply #279 on: December 19, 2014, 02:31:56 PM »

Curious that there are two vinyl reissue programmes running concurrently, with Party! being the only LP to feature in both.
Is it??  I missed that, do you have a link …?

My bad - a symptom of my state of confusion. Though just tonight Amazon Uk has listed a vinyl "Love You" as a preorder for September 2016. That's not helped at all!


And also shows Amazon's confusion as it is the recent reissue, and when I click on the relevant page it informs me that I've already bought it. A glance at my shelf confirms that! So either I've time-travelled or Amazon is confused.
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« Reply #280 on: December 19, 2014, 03:56:24 PM »


So either I've time-travelled or Amazon is confused.

Both of the above!
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« Reply #281 on: December 19, 2014, 04:24:43 PM »


So either I've time-travelled or Amazon is confused.

Both of the above!

 Cheesy. The other thing is that Capitol/UME have went to a bit of effort with the releases, as they have been done with some care, and yet there has been little or no promotion of these as far as I'm aware.
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« Reply #282 on: December 19, 2014, 04:27:43 PM »

The mastering info from Kevin Gray was invaluable - have a listen to his comments about "pre-echo" in vinyl tracks, caused by the lacquer degrading in a short amount of time.  

COMMENT:  You've got no more than 24 hours to plate the LP Master before pre-echo sets in. Really more like 18 hours tops. This is why LP's pressed in Japan or Europe are always one generation removed from the LP master tape. You can't send the matrix Master LP disc itself to one of these distant pressing plants. By the time it got there, it would be too late. The only answer is to send a copy of the tape or email a digital copy -- but then it's no longer analog. In earlier times, some mastering houses would send their master LPs in refrigerated containers to reduce groove-wall migration. 
Kevin also touched on the review signal. This idea was added to all lathes by Neumann back in the 50s. To explain, all record cutting lathes have two motors. One drives the platter (turntable) and the other drives the advance screw (the mechanism that moves the cutting head across the disc). Normally the advance screw is advanced at a steady speed. This speed is set to allow for an average audio signal to swing the cutting stylus so that it does not kiss (or touch) the groove that was just cut or the new one that will be cut on the next rotation. What the advance head does is to feed the advance screw motor with a signal that is in advance or in the future with respect to the audio signal. Thus if a series of soft signals is to be cut the advance screw knows in advance of the actual sound signal what to expect and can adjust the speed of the cutting head's advancement down. This make the grooves closer together, which is OK because the signal has a low level and the stylus swing is small. Putting the grooves closer together allows for more time or playback time to fit onto a given disc. In contrast, if a series of loud sounds is part of the song, then when those loud sounds are about to start, the advance screw turns faster, thus moving the cutting stylus further away from adjacent grooves so it can swing back and forth with a greater or wider swing without kissing an adjacent groove wall. Bass that is out-of-phase will produce a vertical motion of the stylus because the actual signal sent to the cutting head is reversed on one side, plus for minus. This is done so that the bulk of the signal, which is in-phase, will move the stylus left or right (lateral) and makes it compatible with mono records. Bass just on one side of the stereo panorama can cause the stylus to loose contact with the groove wall. This is overcome by the use of an "elliptical equalizer."  This device sums all bass starting below about 150 Hz. It's a gentle summation so the sloop of summing builds up as the frequency deepens. Usually it cannot be heard since deep bass is non-directional. Also of interest is that the head is cooled by flowing helium around the coils. This allows for a greater signal strength to be used to drive the stylus, or in other words, a greater signal strength results in the amplifier driving the cutter head to have more control over the stylus and thus more accurate fidelity. Neumann uses a 300 watt per channel amplifier to drive the little cutting head. Six hundred watts of power concentrated in such a small coil must have some way of dissipating the heat, so helium is used to remove the heat. The stylus itself has a little wire wrapped around it to heat the tip so that it cuts cleaner through the acetate material of the disc. And by the way, you can play a Master disc without harming it. Many times the Master is checked by playing parts of it. The Neumann lathe uses a Shure V15 cartridge for this as it is one of the most non-colored pickups you can use.

My shelves are littered with acetates I have cut while working for the Boys. I was constantly checking groove depth since the matrix produces more vertical movement than would normally be used. In all that testing, I figured out how to adjust the lathe to cut a disc that had 3 dB more level than the RIAA standard or enough extra room on a typical disc to contain one more song. But all this advance research was discarded by a Warner engineer (I write about it in my book) and frankly since then has been lost to the industry. The one exception is the disc by Michael Jackson History. When consulting on this production, I made certain that it would transfer to disc without problems by using the same techniques I had developed when with the Beach Boys.

One other thing you might find fascinating is the platter hold-down feature. You see the hose that is coming from the center spindle. That hose can be popped of the spindle to remove the disc. The spindle is hollow and connects to slots cut into the platter. While cutting that hose removes air from the slots on the platter that are in contact with the bottom of the acetate disc. The holes allow for the air to create a vacuum that holds the acetate disc in close contact to the platter. This makes the acetate disc very flat for an accurate groove depth throughout the entire disc surface. And of course, another vacuum moves the groove thread (what is cut from the disc material) away from the cutting styles were it is deposited into a fireproof container under the lathe.

I don't think much has changed in the disc cutting field since the 60's or 70's. It's as good now as it was back then.
~swd     

This thread just keeps gettin' better and better.

Stephen, just...thanks so much for taking the time to write down that kind of info - coupled with the vid's of Kevin Gray doing his mastering I can't believe how much I've learned about the whole E2E of getting something that may have started as a tinkle on a piano key, a hum, a plucked string which finally ends up as a bunch of sound waves zinging around my living room.

I was fascinated by your comments about groove depth and the 3db gains your lathe adjustment achieves - does this gain provide enhancements to the overall sound, or will it complement bass frequencies as opposed to high end?

Thought you might be interested in this ultra high end record player (perhaps the highest) - http://www.continuumaudiolabs.com/caliburn.html - one of it's features is a vacuum section to suck your record onto the platter, amongst a whole load of other mind bogglingly amazing things - all for $150K or so (no joke).  I met the guy who made it in a record shop one day and he told me all about it - a great guy and he even took some time to dig out a few records he thought I might like.

Back to my old Thorens TD166 in the meantime - thanks again, and best wishes for the season - A
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« Reply #283 on: December 20, 2014, 08:50:15 AM »

COMMENT:

Stephen, just...thanks so much for taking the time to write down that kind of info - You are welcome.

I was fascinated by your comments about groove depth and the 3db gains your lathe adjustment achieves - does this gain provide enhancements to the overall sound, or will it complement bass frequencies as opposed to high end?  The improvements Brian Ingoldsby (founder of London West Mastering and Sound Master Studios - North Hollywood, CA) and myself worked out took several years of cutting and adjusting plus the cutting of about a hundred discs to figure it all out. My final test was to assemble a selection of classical, Jazz, Rock, and Pop music selections that were 18 minutes long. This is typical length of play time for the average LP. The final results had to meet the RIAA specification for disc cutting. We were able to cut our test disc so that one of two things resulted. (1) You could keep your levels at normal RIAA standards but increase your play time by about three minutes. That is enough extra time to include another song or a longer song on each side of the disc -- and still maintain the same loudness as any other record. Or, (2) you could put just as many songs on one side of the disc but raise the level of the music by about 3dB. That may not seem like much but it represents a 50% increase in energy or a reduction in the noise level of a silent disc by 3dB without using anymore land (land is the name for the used portion of the disc). This is the kind of improvement that can make a carrier out of disc cutting. Unfortunately, the improvements were killed by a retiring Warner's disc cutting engineer who did not want to get caught up in any new technology. That said goodbye to any Beach Boy LP's issued using the matrix sound, as it required these adjustments to get it onto vinyl.  To answer your question, the improvements were overall. Increasing the levels, or decreasing the noise, made the LP sound about as quiet as a CD. If you extended the playback time, you could increase royalties by two songs if you were a rock group. I thought it was a loss to the industry in general, but I had other duties to attend and did not pursue it.  Some years later, Michael Jackson ask me to overview the LP's that were cut of History, since History used a professional ProSpatializer for some of the songs. And --  we did pull it off!   

Thought you might be interested in this ultra high end record player (perhaps the highest) - Yes there are some over-the-cliff designs out there. Look at all these tables. >>> https://www.google.com/search?q=most+expensive+turntable&biw=1280&bih=601&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=IXuVVIXVCYibNqKygegN&sqi=2&ved=0CCQQsAQ#imgdii=_

Some of them are in the $50,000 category, and a few sell for $150,000, which seems to be the top cost the market will bear.

At the other end of the scale ----  A few decades ago I bought a novel toy I've had a lot of fun with over the years. I would go to a party and ask people if they had ever seen a truck record player or a car record player. When they said no, I'd take an LP (Little Deuce Coupe) and place it on a table, not a turntable, but an eating table. Then I'd take out my truck record player and show it off to an amazed crowd of onlookers. 

Here's a demo video, (mine is a blue model) >>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJfauJmup24

While looking for a demo on YouTube, I found out that this little toy is still being made. Here's a link to the actual device and the video therein shows more about how it works. Actually only one wheel drives the car around the record while the needle keeps the vehicle following along the groove all the way to the end of the record -- leadout grooves and all. 

The SOUNDWAGAN  for sale >>>  http://soundwagon.jp/


Back to my old Thorens TD166 in the meantime - thanks again, and best wishes for the season - A  Thanks and nothing wrong with a Thorens TD166 . . . one of the old standards in turntable designs -- still viable today.

Good Listening, ~Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #284 on: December 20, 2014, 09:57:04 AM »

Something that REALLY bugs me: The delivery of my mono Christmas LP has obviously been delayed, it was due on Wednesday. I hope it's only because of the Christmas season. But the last time I ordered from the US the stuff (Friends LP) was here one week early so I think the LP is lost. Embarrassed It happened before when a nice fellow bought me a Today! mono LP which never showed up. Unfortunately it is not possible to track the shipment either. Cry
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« Reply #285 on: December 20, 2014, 10:07:55 AM »

Something that REALLY bugs me: The delivery of my mono Christmas LP has obviously been delayed, it was due on Wednesday. I hope it's only because of the Christmas season. But the last time I ordered from the US the stuff (Friends LP) was here one week early so I think the LP is lost. Embarrassed It happened before when a nice fellow bought me a Today! mono LP which never showed up. Unfortunately it is not possible to track the shipment either. Cry

just be patient. christmas at christmas will there be for you
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« Reply #286 on: December 20, 2014, 12:04:33 PM »

The LPs I ordered from the US took at least 2 weeks to the UK.
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« Reply #287 on: December 20, 2014, 02:15:13 PM »

OK, I've rechecked. Last time they estimated 6 weeks from shipping to arrival. This time they calculated only 2 weeks. Last time it arrived way earlier, like a week or two, so it took 4 or 5 weeks - they obviously don't know what they're talking about. So my Christmas album will probably arrive... early next year. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #288 on: December 22, 2014, 06:18:43 PM »

Dear Stephen Desper,

Got my copy of the original Sunflower in the mail. It's in fantastic shape, and I'm in luck. It IS an original Artisan pressing.

And I have to say, as a very quick preliminary reaction it does indeed sound better than--and quite different to--any other release of this music I've heard before. Just as a very first, instantaneous reaction when I put in on, I heard the bassline in "Slip on Through" much more distinctly. A very different sound.
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« Reply #289 on: December 22, 2014, 11:07:56 PM »

So, ah, anyone stateside side got their clammy mits on one of the mono numbers yet?
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« Reply #290 on: December 23, 2014, 07:15:40 AM »

Not yet. I ordered Surfer Girl in mono but it didn't ship until yesterday.
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« Reply #291 on: December 23, 2014, 11:36:30 AM »

Dear Stephen Desper,

Got my copy of the original Sunflower in the mail. It's in fantastic shape, and I'm in luck. It IS an original Artisan pressing.

And I have to say, as a very quick preliminary reaction it does indeed sound better than--and quite different to--any other release of this music I've heard before. Just as a very first, instantaneous reaction when I put in on, I heard the bassline in "Slip on Through" much more distinctly. A very different sound.


COMMENT: 

Dear Jesse Reiswig,

Happy to hear the LP you received was an Artisan pressing.  That means that the Sunflower album you have was MASTERED with the supervision of Carl Wilson and myself.

From my reading here and from most discussions I have with fellow aficionados, most fans are only familiar with re-masters of the original mix done on CD. In other words, I know the analog Beach Boys whereas younger fans know the digital Beach Boys.  Over the years the original intention of the final sound has been modified and re-modified so that what was the original mastered sound is now far from the original. When you compare the digital renderings with the actual and real original analog sound, you might say it has “a very different sound.” To me, the “different sound” is what is on all those CD re-masterings. You will probably find that the LP is warmer and more musical in its sonic signature. The LP is the standard since it was created under Carl’s supervision. All other re-issues assume to “improve” over the LP and eliminate Carl’s artistic input because they are issued using a newer technology, which is presumed to be better. My preference is to stay with Carl’s original mastering as I am more involved with his version of Sunflower, that is, it is the sound that seems “right” to me. That’s an artistic choice, I suppose, but then would you like a re-do of the Mona Lisa done in modern acrylic paint that has more color and contrast than Leonardo de Vinci’s original version? You may if you wish, or you may even like it in black and white. There is no correct preference. However if you’re going to go with the acrylic, don’t also say it’s painted by Leonardo. Same with mastering. If the finished Beach boy production is completed by a Beach Boy, and you would rather go with a re-mastered product that replaces the original artist’s work with someone else’s art – fine, but don’t call it a Beach Boy production.

With respect to the playback of your newly acquired LP: Analog playback from an LP is more susceptible to variations in sound due to cartridge design, preamp configuration, and the interaction of the pickup arm with the groove as it traces a pathway through the mechanical wiggles. Whereas, the CD is more consistent in sound from one player to the next. As was stated by another fan, the low priced CD player can equal or improve upon the sound of any low priced average record turntable or changer, but once you spend the money, the musical superiority of the analog clearly becomes audible. I don’t know what equipment you use to play your LP’s or what amp and speakers to which you will be listening, but if of good stature, the characteristic quality that Carl and myself gave to the mastering of the LP will shine forth. I can only hope this is apparent as you listen.
  ~swd
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« Reply #292 on: December 23, 2014, 02:17:00 PM »

Hi Stephen,

I'm listening using a Music Hall MMF 2.2 with the standard cartridge that comes with the package (Music Hall Tracker). I have a decent 10-year old Onkyo amp and my speakers are KEF Q300 bookshelves.

I have two other vinyl pressings of Sunflower. One is an early pressing, on Reprise label, but clearly not original and it sounds VERY inferior to my "new" Artisan original.

The other is the pressing from 2009.

Question for you: I'm very curious. Did you write the copy that appears on the back of Sunflower about (I'm obviously blindly paraphrasing at the moment) the record being in true stereo, not 16 different mono channels synced up?

I'll stop bothering you, but thank you so much for all your insight and passion on this thread. It's been very enlightening.
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« Reply #293 on: December 23, 2014, 08:28:32 PM »

Hi Stephen,

I'm listening using a Music Hall MMF 2.2 with the standard cartridge that comes with the package (Music Hall Tracker). I have a decent 10-year old Onkyo amp and my speakers are KEF Q300 bookshelves.

I have two other vinyl pressings of Sunflower. One is an early pressing, on Reprise label, but clearly not original and it sounds VERY inferior to my "new" Artisan original.

The other is the pressing from 2009.

Question for you: I'm very curious. Did you write the copy that appears on the back of Sunflower about (I'm obviously blindly paraphrasing at the moment) the record being in true stereo, not 16 different mono channels synced up?

I'll stop bothering you, but thank you so much for all your insight and passion on this thread. It's been very enlightening.

COMMENT:

It's not a bother AND Yes I did.  When I suggested that we include such "technical notes" on a pop/rock release, I thought it would be a battle to have it included in the jacket notes, but to my pleasant surprise there was no objection from management or Warner Records. The reason I wished technical notes be added to this album was I wanted it to be known that unlike other regular releases this was more of an audiophile quality recording. I go into this more in Recording The Beach Boys - part two, which will be the subject of a study-video to be available soon. I keep saying that, but this time and with Mike Conner's help we are moving to completion.

I'll tell you this:  As a sound engineer, you can mix a live show and that is exciting, you can mix a TV broadcast and that is pressure, you can mix to tape and that is the push of the record button, but when you lower the stylus onto a virgin blank acetate disc and watch it cut those magic grooves -- that is a real thrill. There's something about seeing the sound "photographed" on the blank black surface. You can't see the re-arrangement of magnetic domains as the tape rolls by the head. You can't sense the broadcast waves as they leave the antenna tower. And you can't know the collective intimacy that each audience member savors. But you can become one with the action of the stylus as it traces its path onto that spinning black mirror, transforming it into a tangible consequence unfolding right before your eyes.
    ~swd
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« Reply #294 on: December 23, 2014, 08:36:14 PM »

All time best technical notes were for the Surf's Up album:   Grin

"Original recording was done on Brother Records’ cassette tape recorder at 30 i.p.s. on 2 inch-wide tape with four long lasting flashlight batteries. The following microphones (with built-in remote switch) were used. U2 Boat mike, F111 Throat model and DC456-1414. A 30-position toy-mixing console was used to transfer the original recording to my Brother 2-track recorder".

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« Reply #295 on: December 24, 2014, 10:36:59 PM »

Chatter so far over at the Hoffman forums regarding these is that the album tracks on the first batch of mono releases sound fabulous but that the tracks that were also released as singles tend to sound significantly inferior to the other tracks. This would seem to track with Steve Hoffman's concern that because the first generation masters for single tracks would not actually be on the LP reels in many cases, inferior second-gen. masters might be used in preparation of these releases in the case of those single tracks.

However, sounds like the album tracks really do sound great, as lifelike as they've ever sounded, from what people are saying so far.
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« Reply #296 on: December 24, 2014, 10:51:40 PM »

Actually, only one person is writing that, so far. I haven't had the chance to listen to all of it yet and my equipment may not be up to snuff compared to others, but what I've heard of Surfer Girl (mono) sounds superb, and I'm not hearing huge discrepancies between tracks at all myself.
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« Reply #297 on: December 24, 2014, 11:27:22 PM »

That's great to hear, Mr. Tiger. It'll be interesting to see what people think going forward.

And you're right. When I looked back I saw it was only one poster who was talking about all the titles. If I inadvertently made it sound like this was a consensus opinion in any way already, I apologize for making it sound that way. My attempt in saying "so far" was just to represent what had already been said on the board.
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« Reply #298 on: December 25, 2014, 04:09:24 AM »

As my mono Christmas album has failed to arrive I'm scared that same thing might happen if I order these. I would buy them all were they available at a store in town! I'm bugged. Angry
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Oh for the good old days


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« Reply #299 on: December 25, 2014, 08:30:40 AM »



At the other end of the scale ----  A few decades ago I bought a novel toy I've had a lot of fun with over the years. I would go to a party and ask people if they had ever seen a truck record player or a car record player. When they said no, I'd take an LP (Little Deuce Coupe) and place it on a table, not a turntable, but an eating table. Then I'd take out my truck record player and show it off to an amazed crowd of onlookers. 

Here's a demo video, (mine is a blue model) >>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJfauJmup24

While looking for a demo on YouTube, I found out that this little toy is still being made. Here's a link to the actual device and the video therein shows more about how it works. Actually only one wheel drives the car around the record while the needle keeps the vehicle following along the groove all the way to the end of the record -- leadout grooves and all. 

The SOUNDWAGAN  for sale >>>  http://soundwagon.jp/ [/size]



Thanks for the tip.I had no idea they still made these . I gotta get me one.

Do these have a hookup or USB broadcaster that I can play to my computer? 
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