Burton Cummings doesnt like TWGMTR!

[El Molé]

“I was listening to a new Beach Boys album ( “That’s Why God Made The Radio”) and it was so obvious the vocals had been auto tuned,” fumed Cummings. “Obviously I was not impressed. I mean this is the same Beach Boys that recorded Pet Sounds and all those great vocal harmonies yet they felt they had to resort to auto-tuning!

It isn't the same Beach Boys though, is it? Those Pet Sounds vocals were recorded nearly 50 years ago by a group of young men at or relatively near to their vocals peaks. So it's a bit unreasonable to expect that they can still sing at that same level, particularly given that two of them are no longer with us and that Brian (and his voice) have gone through some incredibly difficult times. There's no point pretending that these vocals should sound anything like Pet Sounds.

I consider the album on it's own merits and I think it's excellent. There are a few spots where the vocal processing grates a bit (the opening to "Isn't it Time" in particular), but I don't have a huge problem with the vocal sound overall and I generally think they sound good, all things considered. They could have been better, judging by Brian's other recent contributions (and Al's, I suppose), but I'll take the TWGMTR vocals over the GIOMH vocals any day. I can see why it would irritate those who hate this type of vocal processing, but it doesn't overly bother me (and I've opted to not think or read about it too much, in case I find myself unable to listen to music that I'd otherwise enjoy).

[Cyncie]

“I was listening to a new Beach Boys album ( “That’s Why God Made The Radio”) and it was so obvious the vocals had been auto tuned,” fumed Cummings. “Obviously I was not impressed. I mean this is the same Beach Boys that recorded Pet Sounds and all those great vocal harmonies yet they felt they had to resort to auto-tuning!

It isn't the same Beach Boys though, is it? Those Pet Sounds vocals were recorded nearly 50 years ago by a group of young men at or relatively near to their vocals peaks. So it's a bit unreasonable to expect that they can still sing at that same level, particularly given that two of them are no longer with us and that Brian (and his voice) have gone through some incredibly difficult times. There's no point pretending that these vocals should sound anything like Pet Sounds.

I consider the album on it's own merits and I think it's excellent. There are a few spots where the vocal processing grates a bit (the opening to "Isn't it Time" in particular), but I don't have a huge problem with the vocal sound overall and I generally think they sound good, all things considered. They could have been better, judging by Brian's other recent contributions (and Al's, I suppose), but I'll take the TWGMTR vocals over the GIOMH vocals any day. I can see why it would irritate those who hate this type of vocal processing, but it doesn't overly bother me (and I've opted to not think or read about it too much, in case I find myself unable to listen to music that I'd otherwise enjoy).

This is my position on it as well. We know there's vocal processing, and sometimes it's not subtle. But, we also know these guys aren't in their 20's  anymore. Perhaps a lighter hand in some areas would be advisable, but a little help to keep the harmonies sounding good isn't necessarily a bad thing. It certainly didn't make it unlistenable for me, even when I can hear the processing.

Besides, if they had left all the processing off, and gone with the "warts and all" approach a lot of people wanted, we'd be hearing criticism that they don't sound good anymore and should just hang it up.

I just enjoy TWGMTR for what it is… the surviving members of the band, now seniors, getting together to make one more album to celebrate their 50 years. With a little help from their friends.

[donald]

Is it not true that these guys have been using studio trickery for many decades to ge the sound?  Doubling voices a nd going from studio to studio to get a sound?  Sweetening vocals on live albums?  processing the sound of various member's vocals?  Using reverb and various spectorian tricks?    but in the end, you have to look at the final product and the BB sound that you hear.  do you likeitornot?  auto tune is just another Tool to get a sound.   and I like that unique BB sound.  and I still hear it on the new recordings.     

[Lonely Summer]

The vocals on TWGMTR are very enjoyable, they don't detract from my enjoyment of the album. But again, on the live album, that's another story. There's NOTHING on that cd that says "live" to my ears. It just sounds like they re-recorded all the hits in the studio, then dubbed in some crowd applause.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Is it not true that these guys have been using studio trickery for many decades to ge the sound?  Doubling voices a nd going from studio to studio to get a sound?  Sweetening vocals on live albums?  processing the sound of various member's vocals?  Using reverb and various spectorian tricks?    but in the end, you have to look at the final product and the BB sound that you hear.  do you likeitornot?  auto tune is just another Tool to get a sound.   and I like that unique BB sound.  and I still hear it on the new recordings.     

Not sure what your argument is here. So your saying basically that because they've used studio trickery in the past, that I should like all studio trickery.

So because they've used synthesizers in the past, I shouldn't have a problem if they made an electronic dance music track?

Or because they've used electric guitars before, then I should be happy if they did a thrash metal track?

[El Molé]

Is it not true that these guys have been using studio trickery for many decades to ge the sound?  Doubling voices a nd going from studio to studio to get a sound?  Sweetening vocals on live albums?  processing the sound of various member's vocals?  Using reverb and various spectorian tricks?    but in the end, you have to look at the final product and the BB sound that you hear.  do you likeitornot?  auto tune is just another Tool to get a sound.   and I like that unique BB sound.  and I still hear it on the new recordings.     

Not sure what your argument is here. So your saying basically that because they've used studio trickery in the past, that I should like all studio trickery.

So because they've used synthesizers in the past, I shouldn't have a problem if they made an electronic dance music track?

Or because they've used electric guitars before, then I should be happy if they did a thrash metal track?

Didn't he pretty much say the opposite of that? Donald says we all have to look at the final product and decide whether we like it or not. The point seems to be that there's nothing inherently wrong with any particular form of studio trickery - the issue is whether you enjoy the music or not regardless of how the sound was achieved (apologies if I've got this wrong). You don't like it and that's fine. He doesn't say anything like what you've concocted in your post.

Donald's post might even be the most relevant post in this thread because Burton Cummings seems to have a problem with the use of auto-tune itself, rather than the sound of the album. Some people might agree with him, others don't. He also says “In my day, there was no such thing as 'auto tuned vocals'. Especially when you were recording 45's and 33's, there wasn't the studio capability to fix things and filter things. What you sang is what you recorded." - which isn't really true. There were plenty of methods used to fix and filter things.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Is it not true that these guys have been using studio trickery for many decades to ge the sound?  Doubling voices a nd going from studio to studio to get a sound?  Sweetening vocals on live albums?  processing the sound of various member's vocals?  Using reverb and various spectorian tricks?    but in the end, you have to look at the final product and the BB sound that you hear.  do you likeitornot?  auto tune is just another Tool to get a sound.   and I like that unique BB sound.  and I still hear it on the new recordings.     

Not sure what your argument is here. So your saying basically that because they've used studio trickery in the past, that I should like all studio trickery.

So because they've used synthesizers in the past, I shouldn't have a problem if they made an electronic dance music track?

Or because they've used electric guitars before, then I should be happy if they did a thrash metal track?

Didn't he pretty much say the opposite of that? Donald says we all have to look at the final product and decide whether we like it or not. The point seems to be that there's nothing inherently wrong with any particular form of studio trickery - the issue is whether you enjoy the music or not regardless of how the sound was achieved (apologies if I've got this wrong). You don't like it and that's fine. He doesn't say anything like what you've concocted in your post.

Donald's post might even be the most relevant post in this thread because Burton Cummings seems to have a problem with the use of auto-tune itself, rather than the sound of the album. Some people might agree with him, others don't. He also says “In my day, there was no such thing as 'auto tuned vocals'. Especially when you were recording 45's and 33's, there wasn't the studio capability to fix things and filter things. What you sang is what you recorded." - which isn't really true. There were plenty of methods used to fix and filter things.

You're probably right. But then why not just say "I'm fine with the Autotune"? Using the old "Auto-tune is the new double tracking" argument is somewhat of a challenge to those of us who dislike the sound. It warrant some sort of response in defense of our position.

I've been attacked too much in the past over my feeling about  TWGMTR, so perhaps I'm looking for criticism where there isn't any.  In any case my reply to Donald was meant light-heartedly, as I'm sure you gathered.

I'm happy people like this album. I wish I could!

[job]

Burton Cummings is a fantastic vocalist and has a lot of cred.  I can totally understand why he would say what he said.  Even still, I am fine with the album.

[Micha]

I'm happy people like this album. I wish I could!

That's my feeling about Love You.

[ThyRavenAscend]

I don't mind the auto-tune as much as I mind the sterile production quality--it makes me want to staple my ears.

[Wirestone]

Using the old "Auto-tune is the new double tracking" argument is somewhat of a challenge to those of us who dislike the sound. It warrant some sort of response in defense of our position.

It's not an argument. It's the truth. It's a vocal effect that has become near ubiquitous on popular music, and one used to augment the sound of otherwise thin or shaky vocals. I don't see why that would be a challenge -- you don't have to like the truth, after all. Reality has many things about it that are less than optimal -- my muscle tone, for instance.

I don't mind the auto-tune as much as I mind the sterile production quality--it makes me want to staple my ears.

These statements always befuddle me. TWGMTR's tacks sound like most of BW's recent productions -- lots of strings and horns and live instruments, mostly played by his touring band. It's no wall of sound, but it's definitely of a piece with the Gershwin and TLOS records.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Using the old "Auto-tune is the new double tracking" argument is somewhat of a challenge to those of us who dislike the sound. It warrant some sort of response in defense of our position.

It's not an argument. It's the truth. It's a vocal effect that has become near ubiquitous on popular music, and one used to augment the sound of otherwise thin or shaky vocals. I don't see why that would be a challenge -- you don't have to like the truth, after all. Reality has many things about it that are less than optimal -- my muscle tone, for instance.

Yes, it's true, but what I took his post to mean was "Autotune is the new double tracking....so why do you hate it"

However,  I was in all probability looking for criticism were there wasn't any.

And I don't want to know about your muscle.

[Pied Piper]

If you can't sing, don't sing.

[ThyRavenAscend]

I don't mind the auto-tune as much as I mind the sterile production quality--it makes me want to staple my ears.

These statements always befuddle me. TWGMTR's tacks sound like most of BW's recent productions -- lots of strings and horns and live instruments, mostly played by his touring band. It's no wall of sound, but it's definitely of a piece with the Gershwin and TLOS records.

Let it befuddle you no longer: people who don't like the production quality of TWGMTR (likely) don't like the production quality of BW's recent releases either. Adult contemporary music lacks aesthetic appeal (in terms of production).  I often try to imagine what the suite would sound like if it were produced using Brian's old techniques...sigh...

[Don Malcolm]

Using the old "Auto-tune is the new double tracking" argument is somewhat of a challenge to those of us who dislike the sound. It warrant some sort of response in defense of our position.

It's not an argument. It's the truth. It's a vocal effect that has become near ubiquitous on popular music, and one used to augment the sound of otherwise thin or shaky vocals. I don't see why that would be a challenge -- you don't have to like the truth, after all. Reality has many things about it that are less than optimal -- my muscle tone, for instance.

Yes, it's true, but what I took his post to mean was "Autotune is the new double tracking....so why do you hate it"

However,  I was in all probability looking for criticism were there wasn't any.

And I don't want to know about your muscle.

How incredibly uncharitable of you, Stephen. And after finally getting around to holding hands with Micha over there on page 23.  

Burton Cummings was a very flashy singer in his day, often venturing into territory formerly reserved for castrati. He was not a choral singer, though I suppose he could have been serviceable as a background singer. The problem is that the BBs have to get as close as they can to their signature blend at an advanced age, and aside from Al, they need a mess of help....and doing without autotune at this point would arguably be a lot worse.

Not trying to single anyone out...I understand how sensitive souls can have such a visceral reaction. Just sayin' that we (and the BBs) are between a rock and a hard place in terms of the previous standards and how to keep those from bringin' the whole darned tent down on top of us...

[Pretty Funky]

Today I went walking while listening to the un-autotuned BBC2 live C50 broadcast from last year.

Despite JT's concern that some disaster would doom the listener of any natural Beach Boy product he was unable to get his hand on neither the sky fell, or were I struck down by lightning.

Should I wake in the morning I will assume the world did not end either.

 

[bgas]

Today I went walking while listening to the un-autotuned BBC2 live C50 broadcast from last year.

Despite JT's concern that some disaster would doom the listener of any natural Beach Boy product he was unable to get his hand on neither the sky fell, or were I struck down by lightning.

Should I wake in the morning I will assume the world did not end either.

 

Should you wake in the morning, how will you know for certain you're in the real world and not some alternate universe where the hand of JT has berfallen?

[Pretty Funky]

If Dennis hands me a cold one and takes me sailing with a bevy of beauties I'll assume I'm on my way to hell!


And if the demons sing like robots I'll know I've arrived.

 

[Wirestone]

I don't mind the auto-tune as much as I mind the sterile production quality--it makes me want to staple my ears.

These statements always befuddle me. TWGMTR's tacks sound like most of BW's recent productions -- lots of strings and horns and live instruments, mostly played by his touring band. It's no wall of sound, but it's definitely of a piece with the Gershwin and TLOS records.

Let it befuddle you no longer: people who don't like the production quality of TWGMTR (likely) don't like the production quality of BW's recent releases either. Adult contemporary music lacks aesthetic appeal (in terms of production).  I often try to imagine what the suite would sound like if it were produced using Brian's old techniques...sigh...

Except that they are. Live musicians. Same instruments. Same producer. And in the case of TWGMTR, the same singers. Now, you might not like the way it's engineered or mixed, or effects like autotune, or the quality of the songs, but the records are, by and large, produced in the same way Brian has been doing it for the last 50 years. Ditto for most of Brian's recent albums.

And have you listened to any adult contemporary music lately? TWGMTR, the Gershwin album, and TLOS sound nothing like it.

I have no problem with people not liking the record, or hating autotune, or whatever else floats their boat or strikes their fancy. But things like autotune and AC and etc., etc., etc., are red herrings. Waving them around as though they make an argument for you -- well, they don't. They don't even start one. The question is whether the record is any good on its own terms.

If a studio effect (or for that matter, mastering) makes a record unlistenable to you, then you shouldn't be listening to pop music.

[startBBtoday]

Just dropping in here to say I forgot how much I absolutely adore "Pacific Coast Highway." One of my favorite Beach Boys songs ever. Part of me wishes it was longer, part of me thinks it's perfect as it is.

[Smilin Ed H]

I can forgive it all for From There To Back Again

[ThyRavenAscend]

I don't mind the auto-tune as much as I mind the sterile production quality--it makes me want to staple my ears.

These statements always befuddle me. TWGMTR's tacks sound like most of BW's recent productions -- lots of strings and horns and live instruments, mostly played by his touring band. It's no wall of sound, but it's definitely of a piece with the Gershwin and TLOS records.

Let it befuddle you no longer: people who don't like the production quality of TWGMTR (likely) don't like the production quality of BW's recent releases either. Adult contemporary music lacks aesthetic appeal (in terms of production).  I often try to imagine what the suite would sound like if it were produced using Brian's old techniques...sigh...

Except that they are. Live musicians. Same instruments. Same producer. And in the case of TWGMTR, the same singers. Now, you might not like the way it's engineered or mixed, or effects like autotune, or the quality of the songs, but the records are, by and large, produced in the same way Brian has been doing it for the last 50 years. Ditto for most of Brian's recent albums.

And have you listened to any adult contemporary music lately? TWGMTR, the Gershwin album, and TLOS sound nothing like it.

I have no problem with people not liking the record, or hating autotune, or whatever else floats their boat or strikes their fancy. But things like autotune and AC and etc., etc., etc., are red herrings. Waving them around as though they make an argument for you -- well, they don't. They don't even start one. The question is whether the record is any good on its own terms.

If a studio effect (or for that matter, mastering) makes a record unlistenable to you, then you shouldn't be listening to pop music.

The record isn't unlistenable to me--I actually enjoy it.  But I have to struggle to enjoy it on its "own terms" (i.e. the songwriting, performance).  But I don't agree with your notion that studio-effect/mastering isn't one of the record's own terms--it's just as much a part of the music as the songwriting and performance; the studio-effects/mastering are a part of the finished product, and it's easily the crappiest part, unfortunately taking away from the splendor of the songwriting and performances.

At the end of the day, something is "off" about TWGMTR, and we're forced to explain away its flaws in order to find its splendor.

[Pacific Coast]

I'm not complaining about TWGMTR. I love some of the tracks, skip a few of them. I feel the same way about TLOS. Both of them are solid records that I'm not embarrassed to share with my friends, plenty of songs to sing along in the car, and a few teary-eyed moments. These albums will stand the test of time.

[joshferrell]

according to Trey Parker (one of the creators of south park) he said that when he used auto tune for the Kanye west episode he had to sing really bad to make it sound good, which means that if someone sang really good it makes them sound bad, basically what he is saying is that it's meant to cover up bad singers to make them sound good, I laughed when i heard that..

[joshferrell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4EGYmyC4m4
here we go....