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Author Topic: Some random questions from a relatively recent Beach Boys convert  (Read 5259 times)
The Foot Fetish Man
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« on: October 05, 2013, 08:54:59 PM »

You people seem highly knowledgeable about the Beach Boys output. I have a good amount of the original albums but not all. I was listening to all of my Beach Boys CD's at work recently and I have some technical questions about various tracks.

"Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson"-On the snippets of past songs were they specially recorded for Shut Down Vol. 2 or did Chuck Britz go back to the actual session tapes for those songs and pulled the most funny moments?

"Why Do Fools Fall In Love"-On the 1990 2-fer I have the disc is stereo for all tracks on this album except this one. Was this a compiling error when the CD was produced or was it mono on the original LP? Has this track ever been issued in stereo? It's one of my absolute favorite tracks cut by the Boys.

On Beach Boys Concert would "Let's Go Trippin'" been the last song on side 1? On this 2-fer there obviously was a crossfade between sides somewhere and I never had this album on vinyl or cassette to know for sure where the split in sides would've been. I just make a guess as to it being between "..Trippin'" and "Papa..." because "..Trippin'" is an instrumental that seems appropriate to close a side with and then the rambunctiousness of Papa Oom Mow Mow seems fit to open a 2nd side with.

Also, from the same album..What's up with the Duophonic used on "Johnny B Goode" while all the rest is in stereo? Did an engineer at the concert unhook some recording mics not knowing there was one more song to be played? Or was this the one truly 'live' moment on this album and, after listening to a playback, they decided to re-record practically the entire album but felt the need to leave SOMETHING live on the album?

Since I already have "Live In London" on cassette (as "Beach Boys '69") I already know where the split in sides are...but what I'm wondering is what generation of tape did they use for Live In London on this 1990 2-fer? It sounds acceptable to me and I enjoy it everytime I listen to it but I've always noticed my Beach Boys '69 cassette actually has much more clarity than the 1990 CD has.

"Do It Again" from the 1990 20/20 2-fer-On this is in fake stereo. I vastly prefer the mono mix...but since I hear sounds on the 'fake stereo' version that I don't hear on the mono single version it must not be a simple 'fold down'...They obviously still had access to the multi tracks to make such differences which makes me ask did they ever prepare a stereo mix of Do It Again?

Also on the 20/20 2-fer, I noticed right at the beginning of "Break Away" Brian (or somebody) seems to have been saying something just as the first snare drum beat happens but on the Good Vibrations box set that doesn't happen. It starts cleanly with nothing interfering with that first snare beat. Was the version on the box set remixed to correct that? It otherwise sounds like the exact same mix to me.

On "Long Promised Road" from the 2000 2-fer of Surf's Up there is a keyboard note that is right at the beginning that is obviously from something that was being played at the session before the song starts. It begins right when the sound of that note is tapering off. This is missing from the 1993 box set. Did it appear this way on the original vinyl LP of Sur'f Up or is it something that's just exclusive to the 2000 2-fer with Sunflower?

On the 2000 2-fer of Holland there is lots of aggravating tape drop-out from "Big Sur" through "California". A considerable amount of harmonica drops out on Big Sur and it (along with "All I Wanna Do" on Sunflower) is my favorite Mike song and I'm always annoyed when I hear the tape drop-outs on it although I still enjoy listening to the track. Is it that way on the earlier Caribou issue of Holland? The original vinyl LP of Holland?

On the 2000 issue of "In Concert" there seems to be some bad tape speed fluctuations on "You Still Believe In Me". These don't seem to appear on any other tracks on this disc. Was this also the way it was on previous CD issues and the original vinyl LP?

And, finally, on the 2000 2-fer of Keepin' the Summer Alive/1985 self titled album did they mistankly omit "Male Ego" from the track order or was it inten 'hidden track'? I know it was originally the B-side of Getcha Back.

Thanks in advance for any answers. I've always been fascinated by this kind of stuff.
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2013, 10:58:21 PM »

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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2013, 11:07:42 PM »

On Beach Boys Concert would "Let's Go Trippin'" been the last song on side 1?

Yep.
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 01:00:25 AM »

You people seem highly knowledgeable about the Beach Boys output. I have a good amount of the original albums but not all. I was listening to all of my Beach Boys CD's at work recently and I have some technical questions about various tracks.

"Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson"-On the snippets of past songs were they specially recorded for Shut Down Vol. 2 or did Chuck Britz go back to the actual session tapes for those songs and pulled the most funny moments?

The entire session - minus the parts they actually edited out for the released track - can be heard (just once is enough) on a bootleg. Definitely a formal session, recorded 1/13/65

Quote
"Why Do Fools Fall In Love"-On the 1990 2-fer I have the disc is stereo for all tracks on this album except this one. Was this a compiling error when the CD was produced or was it mono on the original LP? Has this track ever been issued in stereo? It's one of my absolute favorite tracks cut by the Boys.

Yes - after the session tapes were rediscovered maybe seven years ago, a stereo remix (with the original instrumental intro) was released on Summer Love Songs in 2009. The stereo mix minus the intro is on the new box.

Quote
Also, from the same album..What's up with the Duophonic used on "Johnny B Goode" while all the rest is in stereo? Did an engineer at the concert unhook some recording mics not knowing there was one more song to be played? Or was this the one truly 'live' moment on this album and, after listening to a playback, they decided to re-record practically the entire album but felt the need to leave SOMETHING live on the album?

Not a clue, but all bar two tracks on the album are entirely live, those being "I Get Around" and... damn... "Fun, Fun, Fun" ?

Quote
"Do It Again" from the 1990 20/20 2-fer-On this is in fake stereo. I vastly prefer the mono mix...but since I hear sounds on the 'fake stereo' version that I don't hear on the mono single version it must not be a simple 'fold down'...They obviously still had access to the multi tracks to make such differences which makes me ask did they ever prepare a stereo mix of Do It Again?

The multitrack master was lost after the single was mixed. it was also recently rediscovered, hence it's in stereo on the new box. This is the first ever stereo mix. The sounds on the album mix at the tag are from a Smile session, hence in stereo.

Hope this helps.
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2013, 02:34:29 AM »

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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 02:45:56 AM »

Also on the 20/20 2-fer, I noticed right at the beginning of "Break Away" Brian (or somebody) seems to have been saying something just as the first snare drum beat happens but on the Good Vibrations box set that doesn't happen. It starts cleanly with nothing interfering with that first snare beat. Was the version on the box set remixed to correct that? It otherwise sounds like the exact same mix to me.

On "Long Promised Road" from the 2000 2-fer of Surf's Up there is a keyboard note that is right at the beginning that is obviously from something that was being played at the session before the song starts. It begins right when the sound of that note is tapering off. This is missing from the 1993 box set. Did it appear this way on the original vinyl LP of Sur'f Up or is it something that's just exclusive to the 2000 2-fer with Sunflower?


Both extremities are on my original UK 45/LP, and I don't think either sound right without it! There's loads of things like that in the catalogue though. One I recently discovered was Brian shouting at the end of I Get Around obviously the end of count-in on Don't Worry Baby [bar new mixes] and more!
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2013, 03:10:16 AM »

You people seem highly knowledgeable about the Beach Boys output. I have a good amount of the original albums but not all. I was listening to all of my Beach Boys CD's at work recently and I have some technical questions about various tracks.

"Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson"-On the snippets of past songs were they specially recorded for Shut Down Vol. 2 or did Chuck Britz go back to the actual session tapes for those songs and pulled the most funny moments?

The entire session - minus the parts they actually edited out for the released track - can be heard (just once is enough) on a bootleg. Definitely a formal session, recorded 1/13/65

AGD, you have "Cassius" mixed up with "Bull Session" here.
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2013, 04:03:05 AM »

You people seem highly knowledgeable about the Beach Boys output. I have a good amount of the original albums but not all. I was listening to all of my Beach Boys CD's at work recently and I have some technical questions about various tracks.

"Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson"-On the snippets of past songs were they specially recorded for Shut Down Vol. 2 or did Chuck Britz go back to the actual session tapes for those songs and pulled the most funny moments?

The entire session - minus the parts they actually edited out for the released track - can be heard (just once is enough) on a bootleg. Definitely a formal session, recorded 1/13/65

AGD, you have "Cassius" mixed up with "Bull Session" here.

Well that'll teach me to come on here first thing before three mugs of tea and half a loaf of toast. You're right, I have. My life is an abject failure.

Correct session date is 2/20/64. My impression is that the banter was less than spontaneous. 
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2013, 04:04:53 AM »

Quote
"Do It Again" from the 1990 20/20 2-fer-On this is in fake stereo. I vastly prefer the mono mix...but since I hear sounds on the 'fake stereo' version that I don't hear on the mono single version it must not be a simple 'fold down'...They obviously still had access to the multi tracks to make such differences which makes me ask did they ever prepare a stereo mix of Do It Again?

The multitrack master was lost after the single was mixed. it was also recently rediscovered, hence it's in stereo on the new box. This is the first ever stereo mix. The sounds on the album mix at the tag are from a Smile session, hence in stereo.

Hope this helps.

What about this? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16252.msg396195.html#msg396195

0-2.  Huh
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The Foot Fetish Man
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 06:48:25 AM »


AGD, you have "Cassius" mixed up with "Bull Session" here.

No. I've never heard "Bull Session". That's on an album I don't have on a 2-fer.....yet. So, A Graham Doe, you had the right track I was speaking of.
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2013, 06:58:14 AM »

Most of these I don't know the answer to, but I can try to help with some I do. Fools was released in stereo on MiC, but I don't remember if it was from a different compilation or mixed in 2012/2013. The stereo mix gives it new life (as most BBs stereo remixes tend to do). By far my favourite version of the song now.

Oh I'm definitely going to have to break down and buy that MiC box! If the stereo mix gives it new life it will give me ever more goosebumps. I LOVE what was done with Pet Sounds on the sessions box set. One of my most prized possessions.

Quote
There was a thread on Do It Again pretty recently, actually. I think it had the title of "I thought a stereo mix of Do It Again wasn't possible?" or similar. There was a story about SWD and Carl driving with the stereo mix and it falling out the window, but I can't remember the details, so I won't try to. Anyway, there is also a new stereo mix of Do It Again on the Made in California set.

I'll be ordering that Made In California set. I'll run a search for that Do It Again thread....The 'tape falling out of the window' sounds like a good Spinal Tap moment. Smiley

About Cassius Love, I may be mixing it up with some other filler but I would definitely think it was recorded specifically for that "song". If its the one where Brian and Mike impersonate eachother, it definitely sounds scripted to me.
[/quote]

Yes, the dialogue sounds scripted to me, too. I was just wondering if the instrumental tracks on the snippets of music on it were from the original sessions tapes or rerecorded right there at the 'session' for Cassius vs. Sonny. The instrumental snippets sound like either outtakes from the original sessions for those songs or rerecorded at the session for Cassius vs. Sonny.
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2013, 07:08:58 AM »


Quote
Yes - after the session tapes were rediscovered maybe seven years ago, a stereo remix (with the original instrumental intro) was released on Summer Love Songs in 2009. The stereo mix minus the intro is on the new box.

Thank you very much for this information!

I'm under the impression that the Boys' tape library is a mess.



Not a clue, but all bar two tracks on the album are entirely live, those being "I Get Around" and... damn... "Fun, Fun, Fun" ?

Those were the two that stuck me VERY obviously being the original recordings with the tape speed upped....and those hilariously bad edits to make a live ending for them. It's nice to know that the remainder of that album is truly from a show. Thanks.

Quote
The multitrack master was lost after the single was mixed. it was also recently rediscovered, hence it's in stereo on the new box. This is the first ever stereo mix. The sounds on the album mix at the tag are from a Smile session, hence in stereo.

Hope this helps.

It sure does. I really appreciate everybody's responses. It's mind-boggling how much you guys know about the Beach Boys. Too cool. Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2013, 07:13:44 AM »

Both extremities are on my original UK 45/LP, and I don't think either sound right without it! There's loads of things like that in the catalogue though. One I recently discovered was Brian shouting at the end of I Get Around obviously the end of count-in on Don't Worry Baby [bar new mixes] and more!

I, too, have noticed lots of things left inadvertently in the background on Beach Boys tracks. I've noticed the one on I Get Around as well but I heard something similar on the fade-out of the stereo mix of the title track of the Surfer Girl album on the 1990 2-fer that I've never heard on the mono mix.
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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2013, 07:15:30 AM »


I'm going to fix a couple of bologna sandwiches and have a read on this! Thanks.
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2013, 11:46:05 AM »

Quote
"Do It Again" from the 1990 20/20 2-fer-On this is in fake stereo. I vastly prefer the mono mix...but since I hear sounds on the 'fake stereo' version that I don't hear on the mono single version it must not be a simple 'fold down'...They obviously still had access to the multi tracks to make such differences which makes me ask did they ever prepare a stereo mix of Do It Again?

The multitrack master was lost after the single was mixed. it was also recently rediscovered, hence it's in stereo on the new box. This is the first ever stereo mix. The sounds on the album mix at the tag are from a Smile session, hence in stereo.

Hope this helps.

What about this? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16252.msg396195.html#msg396195

0-2.  Huh

Not sure if I have read this correctly.  The original mono single of Do It Again was just the result of a mono fold down of an original stereo mix...?
So:
-there is not and never was a 'true mono' (so to speak) mix of Do It Again?
-there was a vintage stereo mix produced by Carl and Stephen that is lost to history?

Clarification much appreciated.
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2013, 11:55:37 AM »

Quote
"Do It Again" from the 1990 20/20 2-fer-On this is in fake stereo. I vastly prefer the mono mix...but since I hear sounds on the 'fake stereo' version that I don't hear on the mono single version it must not be a simple 'fold down'...They obviously still had access to the multi tracks to make such differences which makes me ask did they ever prepare a stereo mix of Do It Again?

The multitrack master was lost after the single was mixed. it was also recently rediscovered, hence it's in stereo on the new box. This is the first ever stereo mix. The sounds on the album mix at the tag are from a Smile session, hence in stereo.

Hope this helps.

What about this? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16252.msg396195.html#msg396195

0-2.  Huh

Not sure if I have read this correctly.  The original mono single of Do It Again was just the result of a mono fold down of an original stereo mix...?
So:
-there is not and never was a 'true mono' (so to speak) mix of Do It Again?
-there was a vintage stereo mix produced by Carl and Stephen that is lost to history?

Clarification much appreciated.

Yes and yes [I believe]
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2013, 12:24:26 PM »

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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2013, 01:41:17 PM »

Not sure if I have read this correctly.  The original mono single of Do It Again was just the result of a mono fold down of an original stereo mix...?
So:
-there is not and never was a 'true mono' (so to speak) mix of Do It Again?
-there was a vintage stereo mix produced by Carl and Stephen that is lost to history?

Clarification much appreciated.

yes yes yes ... that's the story, which is somewhere on this board.

There may have been a mono mix on the lost 1/4" reel as well, I don't know. The main point being that whatever mix(es) had been done were lost, and the only reason they had that mono mix to fall back on was that it was a fold-down to check for stereo compatibility, so they submitted that one to the label ... the idea being that they could always go back and remix to stereo for LP release, etc. ... until the 8-track master was lost during Stack O Tracks.

The part that doesn't quite make sense to me is the idea that "Do It Again" was going to be a stereo-only single. This was true for "I Can Hear Music", but "Bluebirds Over the Mountain"/"Never Learn Not to Love" came first in a mono-only 45.

ALSO -- the flipside "Wake the World" was a mono mix ... presumably made just for this 45. Since the Friends album was only mixed to stereo ... so yeh, there are some holes in the story. This sounds like an actual mono mix, not a fold-down.

Sorry, I don't have the answers, just raising some questions that don't support the original story. But the fact remains that at some point between the Stack O Tracks and 20/20, the 8-track master went missing. And the original 45 SOUNDS weird.

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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2013, 01:52:10 PM »

On "Long Promised Road" from the 2000 2-fer of Surf's Up there is a keyboard note that is right at the beginning that is obviously from something that was being played at the session before the song starts. It begins right when the sound of that note is tapering off. This is missing from the 1993 box set. Did it appear this way on the original vinyl LP of Sur'f Up or is it something that's just exclusive to the 2000 2-fer with Sunflower?

I've always thought it was somehow related to "Fourth of July".

On the 2000 2-fer of Holland there is lots of aggravating tape drop-out from "Big Sur" through "California". A considerable amount of harmonica drops out on Big Sur and it (along with "All I Wanna Do" on Sunflower) is my favorite Mike song and I'm always annoyed when I hear the tape drop-outs on it although I still enjoy listening to the track. Is it that way on the earlier Caribou issue of Holland? The original vinyl LP of Holland?

They're all this way ... gunk or something on the orig. 1/4" tape during mix.

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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2013, 02:08:41 PM »

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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2013, 02:16:27 PM »

Sorry, I don't have the answers, just raising some questions that don't support the original story.


Great stuff, no need to apologise  Smiley

Anything in particular about the original 45 that makes it sound weird to you?
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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2013, 02:31:15 PM »

The part that doesn't quite make sense to me is the idea that "Do It Again" was going to be a stereo-only single. This was true for "I Can Hear Music", but "Bluebirds Over the Mountain"/"Never Learn Not to Love" came first in a mono-only 45.

ALSO -- the flipside "Wake the World" was a mono mix ... presumably made just for this 45. Since the Friends album was only mixed to stereo ... so yeh, there are some holes in the story. This sounds like an actual mono mix, not a fold-down.

Sorry, I don't have the answers, just raising some questions that don't support the original story. But the fact remains that at some point between the Stack O Tracks and 20/20, the 8-track master went missing. And the original 45 SOUNDS weird.

Also, "Friends" was a dedicated mono 45 mix of a stereo album track. Likewise "Bluebirds", which bracketed "DIA": I know applying logic in a BB context is just asking for trouble but... would having a stereo 45 mix for "DIA" make any sense ?

En passant, the 45 mix of "NLNTL" is very slightly different to the album version.
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« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2013, 03:24:34 PM »

The part that doesn't quite make sense to me is the idea that "Do It Again" was going to be a stereo-only single. This was true for "I Can Hear Music", but "Bluebirds Over the Mountain"/"Never Learn Not to Love" came first in a mono-only 45.

ALSO -- the flipside "Wake the World" was a mono mix ... presumably made just for this 45. Since the Friends album was only mixed to stereo ... so yeh, there are some holes in the story. This sounds like an actual mono mix, not a fold-down.

Sorry, I don't have the answers, just raising some questions that don't support the original story. But the fact remains that at some point between the Stack O Tracks and 20/20, the 8-track master went missing. And the original 45 SOUNDS weird.

Also, "Friends" was a dedicated mono 45 mix of a stereo album track. Likewise "Bluebirds", which bracketed "DIA": I know applying logic in a BB context is just asking for trouble but... would having a stereo 45 mix for "DIA" make any sense ?

En passant, the 45 mix of "NLNTL" is very slightly different to the album version.

Yeh this makes sense. The only thing I could can think of is MAYBE (!!!) Desper and Carl thought it would be super cool to have a stereo track for the neat drum effect ... like, a first. BUT after the debacle of losing the tape, they decided to just focus on it later. After all, "Cottonfields" being in mono defies the pattern as well.

"Wake the World" being in mono is really the thing that would need explaining. As in, if they had a deadline to turn in "Do It Again" in stereo, "Wake the World" would have already been mixed in stereo (from the FRIENDS album reel), and was already done. SO ... when was "Wake the World" mono mixed? Or maybe that was just a fold-down too? I haven't listened to the 45 in a while, but I recall it seems like a real mono mix.
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2013, 03:33:30 PM »

That reminds me of how on the stereo Do You Wanna Dance on MIC, the backing vocals keep annoyingly dropping out all the way through. Donny, since you're pretty experienced with tape, what would cause something like that? And if it is just gunk on the tape, why could they not have removed that gunk?

I don't have golden ears or anything, but I don't think there are tape dropouts on the backing vocals on Do You Wanna Dance (stereo remix). Tape dropouts typically going to sound like a really fast cutting in and out (more like a static-type effect) ... the orig. mix of Dance Dance Dance has some dropouts on the original master. Sort of a fluttering effect.

The 'Calif. Saga' thing is more like gunk that just caught some of the record head for a bit, causing a loss of high frequencies. They probably didn't notice until after it was mixed, and then decided it was not too noticeable. They would have to do the mix over again to correct it. And it might have been on an edit reel or something for the whole 'Calif Saga' trilogy, which would potentially be a challenging mix/edit.

Anyway, there are some strange things going on with digital compression or something on the vocals for the stereo Do You Wanna Dance ... like, you can hear the volume actually go DOWN when the vocals get louder.
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« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2013, 03:36:05 PM »

Sorry, I don't have the answers, just raising some questions that don't support the original story.


Great stuff, no need to apologise  Smiley

Anything in particular about the original 45 that makes it sound weird to you?

I don't know, it just sounds like it is folded down or something. Or just has lots of bounces (which it did). I do like the sound, for what it's worth. Much better than the stereo remix, which seemed to lose the cohesive 'hit' appeal.
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