Ouch!....Al Opens Up Again.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense...

Actually, it makes perfect sense, in the correct context.

My guess is that Brian said no more when they all agreed to extend the tour the first time. When Brian decided he wanted to add on, it was too late for Mike. He had already booked dates and restarted the M&B machine.

[Heywood]

http://m.perthnow.com.au/business/lively-childs-play-turns-ugly-for-gina-rinehart/story-e6frg2r3-1226347648839

Don't lose too much sleep about Bruce's kids being destitute, Stephen! !

[KittyKat]

Did Ginia Rinehart ever marry Bruce's son?  Bruce talked about his son getting married during the reunion tour, but I read no further about it?

[Cam Mott]

Sure they can. Just because one of them has about eight unreleased albums that no record label wants to touch with a barge pole and the other one spent 20 odd years making an album of mostly remakes and covers doesn't mean they can't have productive and fulfilling solo........ oh wait........

You left Al out. 

[jamsvet]

Honestly, we have to remember that Brian is 71, ML 72, it's got to be getting tough to do this.

[HeyJude]

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense...

Actually, it makes perfect sense, in the correct context.

If you nor Mike Love are willing to provide that context, then it's still BS. Sorry. I'm done with giving any weight to vague allusions or implications, especially regarding this reunion debacle. Despite a lot of the debate and discussion falling into the dead horse territory, including a lot of my repetitive discussion, I enjoy discussing this stuff. But I'm calling BS on any contentions that are vague to the point of not explaining, and that conveniently seem to support the opinions of the person who claims to have this information.

If Brian actually ended the tour, or if he "wanted to take some time off and then regroup", or anything along those lines, then some details regarding such are needed. Further, if this is at all what your or anybody else is implying, some sort of secret reason the reunion ended that has to do with Brian, then that makes the "set end date" excuse even MORE ridiculous.

I'm not buying that Brian told Mike he was done with the reunion, and then did that laughable back and forth letter writing with Mike to the LA Times. It makes no sense. They may have disagreed on terms for more reunion activities. In fact, Mike's comments about Brian saying no more shows was so off the wall that I do believe it is true in some form somehow. But if Brian is writing letters saying he wanted to continue and Mike didn't, then either it's not as simple as Brian wanting to quit, or Brian was attempting to perpetrate some intense reverse psychology.

Ultimately, I'm not seeing anything in the numerous interviews with Mike that indicates he's at all interested in reuniting the band again. If he were giving interviews lamenting how he wanted to continue, but Brian canceled, or they just couldn't come to agreeable terms, or if he expressed even once any sentiment about, for instance, wanting to play with Al Jardine and David Marks rather than just making some generic unrealistic request to write alone in a room with Brian, then maybe I'd lift some of the blame off of Mike.

[HeyJude]

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense...

Actually, it makes perfect sense, in the correct context.

My guess is that Brian said no more when they all agreed to extend the tour the first time. When Brian decided he wanted to add on, it was too late for Mike. He had already booked dates and restarted the M&B machine.

I'd like a single piece of even anecdotal evidence to support this idea. I don't say this accusatorily. If this is indeed what went down, let's have somebody give us a piece of information that indicates this.

Bruce was already giddy about going back to the M&B show before the reunion tour even started, gleefully (a word Howie Edelson did use first, but which perfectly describes it) telling fans it wasn't going to be a permanent thing. Word broke of M&B shows abroad quite a ways before the end of the C50 tour.

I don't buy for a second that Mike was EVER even *considering* not going back to the M&B tour setup. The exact timeline was apparently fluid for a short period of time, but that seems to be about it.

I'd love for somebody to find out when the first post-reunion M&B show was booked. That would be an interesting (and yes, now largely useless) piece of information.

[HeyJude]

Honestly, we have to remember that Brian is 71, ML 72, it's got to be getting tough to do this.

That's the thing, that's the reason if they were ever going to do more reunion stuff, now is the time. Mike's not slowing down if the 2013 tour schedule is any indication. These guys, especially Mike and Al (and David) could have a number of years left in them. But they're probably not going to be doing 100 gigs per years at 85 or 90.

[HeyJude]

Not really! It's a nice plainspoken interview and there's nothing sad about this tour, even without That Other Guy... The upstart missed out.

Brian's recent tact is probably better: "no comment."

For sure - Alan's comign across as a bitter and petty-minded little man.

Really?

Stating the painfully obvious, but It's pretty clear AGD is seeking out opportunities to leap to the defense of Mike Love and to criticize Al Jardine. That's fine, but I for one will weigh such comments accordingly. My opinion of he reunion debacle is clear, but I don't defend Al Jardine every time someone misquotes the size of his underwear or every time Mike makes a d**k comment in an interview. To single out this Al Jardine interview, in light of the years of what we've heard from Mike Love (and some of the others), just in published interviews, as bitter and petty, is laughably ridiculous.

I for one, as a Beach Boys fan, prefer a slightly crusty, curmudgeonly Al Jardine to the party line-towing model of the 70's or 80's.

Not much of any of the guys in this band have done a particularly consistently great job of portraying themselves or the band's legacy with a great amount of dignity.

[HeyJude]

Actually the one guy in all this who always acts as a gent is David Marks. No backbiting from him and he stood to lose a lot more than Al with the C50 ending. Al needs to button it because the day will come when the BW wivesandmanagers machine decides he's served his purpose and jettisons him again.

Word. 

Yeah, because Brian's wife and managers booting is Al is something to be celebrated?

David Marks is a gentlemen. He also has no corporate stake in anything to do with the Beach Boys, nor as many years invested into the machine.

Al has seemed to survive somehow without either the touring Beach Boys or Brian for the majority of 1998 to 2011, and it has actually seemed to give him better perspective and more willingness to be frank.

Are the people calling for Al to "button it" also calling on Mike to not make vague negative comments about "someone" in Brian's camp, implying they lacked "honor"? We're still not even sure who the hell Mike was talking about, nor whether Mike's opinion of that person was correct. But it certainly did nothing positive and only stoked flames as well, and didn't seem to show Mike ending the reunion with any dignity or grace.

[Mikie]

Is the C50 over yet? Can I come out now? Anybody else want to continue on with their lives? Anybody?

Maybe I'll start a thread on politics or religion.  Abortion, gay rights, gun control, Obamacare?  I mean REAL debateable controversial issues. Ya wid me?

[SurfRiderHawaii]

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense...

Actually, it makes perfect sense, in the correct context.

My guess is that Brian said no more when they all agreed to extend the tour the first time. When Brian decided he wanted to add on, it was too late for Mike. He had already booked dates and restarted the M&B machine.

I'd like a single piece of even anecdotal evidence to support this idea. I don't say this accusatorily. If this is indeed what went down, let's have somebody give us a piece of information that indicates this.

Bruce was already giddy about going back to the M&B show before the reunion tour even started, gleefully (a word Howie Edelson did use first, but which perfectly describes it) telling fans it wasn't going to be a permanent thing. Word broke of M&B shows abroad quite a ways before the end of the C50 tour.

I don't buy for a second that Mike was EVER even *considering* not going back to the M&B tour setup. The exact timeline was apparently fluid for a short period of time, but that seems to be about it.

I'd love for somebody to find out when the first post-reunion M&B show was booked. That would be an interesting (and yes, now largely useless) piece of information.

I agree. ML had no intentions of Brian, Al and David being in the band long term.  What I'm saying is that when they extended early on, Brian said no more after that. It sounded like a lot of shows and Brian's back was hurting.

But later on, Brian was having fund, back was better and the offers were still streaming in.  The album was a success. Brain and Al thought, let's keep this going, let's do another album. Mike said no.

[Mike's Beard]

Actually the one guy in all this who always acts as a gent is David Marks. No backbiting from him and he stood to lose a lot more than Al with the C50 ending. Al needs to button it because the day will come when the BW wivesandmanagers machine decides he's served his purpose and jettisons him again.

Word. 

Yeah, because Brian's wife and managers booting is Al is something to be celebrated?

David Marks is a gentlemen. He also has no corporate stake in anything to do with the Beach Boys, nor as many years invested into the machine.

Al has seemed to survive somehow without either the touring Beach Boys or Brian for the majority of 1998 to 2011, and it has actually seemed to give him better perspective and more willingness to be frank.

Are the people calling for Al to "button it" also calling on Mike to not make vague negative comments about "someone" in Brian's camp, implying they lacked "honor"? We're still not even sure who the hell Mike was talking about, nor whether Mike's opinion of that person was correct. But it certainly did nothing positive and only stoked flames as well, and didn't seem to show Mike ending the reunion with any dignity or grace.

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick with my post. I think Al should "button it" because he isn't doing himself any favours in the long run. He's burning whatever bridges he and Mike may have mended during the C50 tour and has essentially pissed on his chips in regards to ever performing under the BB licence with Mike again (even if it was only a slim chance). When Brian's management is done with him he'll be out in the cold again.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Actually the one guy in all this who always acts as a gent is David Marks. No backbiting from him and he stood to lose a lot more than Al with the C50 ending. Al needs to button it because the day will come when the BW wivesandmanagers machine decides he's served his purpose and jettisons him again.

Word.  

Yeah, because Brian's wife and managers booting is Al is something to be celebrated?

No, and I don't believe I even so much as intimated that, so kindly don't upbraid me for something I've not said, or something that, for whatever bizarre reason,  you apparently want me to have said. My agreement was with MB's take on the current (and putative future) scenario, which is backed by past history.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'd love for somebody to find out when the first post-reunion M&B show was booked. That would be an interesting (and yes, now largely useless) piece of information.

You want dates  ? We goddem.

Rolling Stone 6/26/12

El Comercio 6/22/12

[D409]

Anyone else here thinks that as fans of the BB's music having the option of going to see two different touring outfits playing that wonderful music is potentially a double treat ? Something to be celebrated, not derided, perhaps ?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Been saying that for years, but seems there's a certain cadre of fans who demand what they imagine to be a strict diet of caviare, truffles and Dom Perignon.

[Niko]

For me it's more that fact that both bands playing together eclipses either show individually. Not that that would ever stop me from going to a show today 

[Alan Smith]

Anyone else here thinks that as fans of the BB's music having the option of going to see two different touring outfits playing that wonderful music is potentially a double treat ? Something to be celebrated, not derided, perhaps ?

Definitely something to be appreciated and taken advantage of (while on limited offer and in your neighbourhood)

I'd love to see M&B (and the Gruffalo) at a non-stadium venue - and I hold nary a hope of BAD getting up in OZ.

So, for those who can - go to all or either; I'll bet you have a time of it.

[Loaf]

In defence of Mike, there's one thing that a lot of people on here seem to forget. Mike's touring band is relatively stable. Mike tours constantly and consistenly, and being in his touring band/roadcrew is probably a pretty good gig for working musician/roadie.

When Mike joined in the C50 tour, he took a couple of members with him, but the others presumably were on hiatus for a while. I imagine the others didn't get paid a retainer, but were told that the C50 wouldn't last forever, there was a set end date, and after that the M&B band would resume touring. So, they were free/forced to find alternative employment in the meantime. They probably have families, mortgages, health care costs (it is America after all...).

As the end date approaches, if Mike was to suddenly extend the C50 tour, his sidemen who were not on the C50 tour would be out of work for longer, and probably a bit pissed off at Mike at the relatively short notice. They might not rejoin the touring band. They might get jobs elsewhere.

So, when it comes time for Mike to reassemble his well-versed and talented touring band, does he deal with some pissed off and broke employees? Does he hire several new sidemen? Or does Mike stick to his word, which was signed and legal and everyone was happy with (at the time)?

Knowing what we do of Mike's work ethic and that of his father, I would imagine that Mike had made promises to people he depends on, and he stuck to them. So for all the talk of Mike being the bad guy, refusing to extend the tour, "firing" Brian and Al and David, it really seems to me that Mike is a dependable man of his word.

The above scenario doesn't really apply to anyone else because most of Brian's band was on the C50 (and we know how he treats his sidemen (re: Bob and Jim)), and Al and Dave don't have regular bands. Mike is on the hook for being the bad guy in all of this, but he had the most to lose.

For us fans, we just want more C50 dates, and we don't give a sh*t about Mike's road manager, lighting manager, roadies and guitar techs, but it's his world and he does give a sh*t.

Think about it.

[D409]

Wasn't Tim Bonhomme (M&B band keyboard player) tour manager on the C50 shows ? i.e. not short of gainful employment during that period...

[Andrew G. Doe]

True. So that just leaves Christian & Randell kicking their heels for the summer

[The Shift]

True. So that just leaves Christian & Randell kicking their heels for the summer

And presumably the road crew…

Great post Loaf… I said something similar back in 2012 but didn't put it in such a kind way towards those members not retained for C50.

I think everyone here would love to see the C50 line-up reform but on that score we're thinking with our hearts, not our heads. If Loaf's right, Mike's siding with the Working Joe and deserves respect for that.  Maybe only one of his many considerations, but a key consideration.

[Andrew G. Doe]

One thing that should always be remembered - Mike was (literally) thrown out of a very comfortable family home when he was barely out of his teens, and then a few years later saw his family loose pretty much everything and move from said palatial home to a two-bedroom place by the airport. His urge to ensure his financial security is entirely understandable.

[absinthe_boy]

I've just posted in another thread but what seems to have happened is this.

Initial agreement with all parties for a C50 tour of about 50 dates. Early in the tour Mike more or less persuaded Brian to add a few more dates. Brian was having his back trouble at the time and agreed to those extra dates (including the two London dates) "and no more". This is recorded fact.

Meanwhile M+B were taking bookings for their band post-C50 to tour. These bookings were taken well before the C50 tour ended, some were announced in June 2012.

By the end of the tour Brian's back was good, he was having a whale of a time as was everybody. But the M+B dates were committed, and in all likelihood the last communicaton Mike had with Brian about it was "A few more dates AND NO MORE". Mike didn't see it as firing anyone, he was merely acting on an agreement already made.

It strikes me as a big misunderstanding.

Added to this, most of the M+B band were not included on the C50 tour. I would assume Mike feels loyalty to them. Perhaps they weren't even paid - as they weren't touring or playing.

It's all a shame because it does seem that in September 2012 everyone concerned wanted to either extend the tour or book another tour for 2013. There's little reason why the M+B tour couldn't have taken place over the winter and spring with the C50 lineup touring 12 months after the C50 tour ended. Venues wanted them, fans wanted them.

Still, that looks like more of a pipe dream than ever. I am glad that I was at Wembley, likely the last time The (surviving) Beach Boys all played together.