BW Surf's Up solo piano Q...

[brother john]

I can't believe that I'm having such a brain block, but will someone kindly point me towards the best version of Brian playing surf's up solo - the Bernstein TV show or studio versions thereof~: maybe its just I've imbibed too much Christmas spirit, but my poor old brain just can't figure out where to look on my hard drive or in my cd collecton... Doh!  

Thanks alot guys...

BJ

[Andrew G. Doe]

Bernstein - Beautiful Dreamer DVD

Solo studio - GV box (albeit slightly edited)

[brother john]

Thanks big guy!

[brother john]

Actually, something does occur to me Andrew: Given that the Surf's Up on the album of the same name was 'vocally enhanced' by Carl in Brian's section due, we're told, to damage done to the original tapes, what are the chances of this GV version being all Brian or mostly Brian with a bit of Carl? And if all Brian, why did Carl consider it not good enough to use as it was, as it sounds pretty good to me?

[Ron]

I'm just speculating, but my understanding of it was that the Brian solo version was just a demo, and a very Brian demo, not a Beach Boys track.  Also they had the incredible production arranged for the first half of the song sitting with nothing over it.  So Carl likely felt that he would love to have a fully produced version of the song, since that backing track is so great.  The piano demo wouldn't lay over the recorded arrangement with the horns and things because of timing differences, so Carl simply resang the first half.  They didn't have any produced 'second half' arrangements, so they just used the Brian demo (not only because it's beautiful, but because it added an extra Beach Boy, a very popular Beach Boy, lol, into the song).  The only other alternative would have been to try and record a new backing track for the second half of the song, or have Carl duplicate what Brian did, or whatever... when all they really had to do is (if your memory is correct) have Carl double a couple spots to thicken it up or whatever, if he did that at all.  Then allegedly Brian caught wind that they were going to release that song, and informed them that the 'child is the father' hook lays over the falsetto outro.  I don't know if that last bit is true but I heard Brian actually helped them arrange that part. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Actually, something does occur to me Andrew: Given that the Surf's Up on the album of the same name was 'vocally enhanced' by Carl in Brian's section due, we're told, to damage done to the original tapes, what are the chances of this GV version being all Brian or mostly Brian with a bit of Carl? And if all Brian, why did Carl consider it not good enough to use as it was, as it sounds pretty good to me?

Good point - my thinking is that Carl would have added his 'ghost' vocal after the demo was transferred to the 16-track, and not to the demo - 4-track, I believe - itself.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm just speculating, but my understanding of it was that the Brian solo version was just a demo, and a very Brian demo, not a Beach Boys track.  Also they had the incredible production arranged for the first half of the song sitting with nothing over it.  So Carl likely felt that he would love to have a fully produced version of the song, since that backing track is so great.  The piano demo wouldn't lay over the recorded arrangement with the horns and things because of timing differences, so Carl simply resang the first half.  They didn't have any produced 'second half' arrangements, so they just used the Brian demo (not only because it's beautiful, but because it added an extra Beach Boy, a very popular Beach Boy, lol, into the song).  The only other alternative would have been to try and record a new backing track for the second half of the song, or have Carl duplicate what Brian did, or whatever... when all they really had to do is (if your memory is correct) have Carl double a couple spots to thicken it up or whatever, if he did that at all.  Then allegedly Brian caught wind that they were going to release that song, and informed them that the 'child is the father' hook lays over the falsetto outro.  I don't know if that last bit is true but I heard Brian actually helped them arrange that part. 

To me, their using the demo is a strong indication that neither the '2nd movement' nor the purported completed version actually exists - were this the case, then why use a damaged demo ?

According to Steve Desper, the band were laying down the tag vocals when Brian (who was listening through the floor) burst into the studio, instructed them in their parts for "Child" at some speed, then went back upstairs to bed.

[XY]

My favorite version is the first Bernstein version, the Boxset demo. Brian double tracked his vocal and was filmed recording this beautiful 3 track recording.
On a later date, he overdubbed strings and horns onto this solo version - a session sheet exists.

[brother john]

Its on record that Carl 'thickened' bits of Brian's demo in the second movement (SWD's Recording the BBs, p44:-), so I'm wondering where this corruption is on the GV box of Brian's solo Surf's Up, which sounds pretty good to my ears. Maybe SWD himself can answer the question if he pops by...

[Smilin Ed H]

Reading Brad Elliott's Surf's Up, I notice that the BB recorded a version of Surf's Up during the Holland sessions.  If he's right, any idea why? For the possible 1972 version of SMiLE?

[brother john]

Reading Brad Elliott's Surf's Up, I notice that the BB recorded a version of Surf's Up during the Holland sessions.  If he's right, any idea why? For the possible 1972 version of SMiLE?

Hi Ed H,

Give me the Elliot ref., I'd like to look it up.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Reading Brad Elliott's Surf's Up, I notice that the BB recorded a version of Surf's Up during the Holland sessions.  If he's right, any idea why? For the possible 1972 version of SMiLE?

Brad got suckered by the Grand Gala Du Disque live version, which is a doozy. As recently as 2002, I've seen it listed as a studio version.

[Smilin Ed H]

What's that version?  I downloaded a live version allegedly recorded in Holland around 72 - which is superb.

The Elliott reference is on p 285.

[Glenn Greenberg]

I think the Anne Wallace version is the best one I've ever heard.

[Jason]

I think the Anne Wallace version is the best one I've ever heard.

Glenn, Steve Desper said he made a version similar to that when they were remaking the track in 1971.

[Glenn Greenberg]

I think the Anne Wallace version is the best one I've ever heard.

Glenn, Steve Desper said he made a version similar to that when they were remaking the track in 1971.

Jason,

Yeah, I read that in Steve Desper's own thread a few weeks ago.  Apparently it sounded great.  Would absolutely positively LOVE to hear the Desper version.  I wonder if it still exists?

[XY]

If I remember correctly, Alan Boyd posted on the old Smiley Smile Board that it still exists and sounds very good.

[yrplace]

Actually, something does occur to me Andrew: Given that the Surf's Up on the album of the same name was 'vocally enhanced' by Carl in Brian's section due, we're told, to damage done to the original tapes, what are the chances of this GV version being all Brian or mostly Brian with a bit of Carl? And if all Brian, why did Carl consider it not good enough to use as it was, as it sounds pretty good to me?

The version on the GV box is all Brian and is from the original 3 track "demo" which was transferred to 16 track when the Beach Boys used it on the Surfs Up album.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Actually, something does occur to me Andrew: Given that the Surf's Up on the album of the same name was 'vocally enhanced' by Carl in Brian's section due, we're told, to damage done to the original tapes, what are the chances of this GV version being all Brian or mostly Brian with a bit of Carl? And if all Brian, why did Carl consider it not good enough to use as it was, as it sounds pretty good to me?

The version on the GV box is all Brian and is from the original 3 track "demo" which was transferred to 16 track when the Beach Boys used it on the Surfs Up album.

Thanks Mark Linett. 

Mark knows these tapes better than anyone today.  Mark, there is something about the first part that caused Carl to redo some of the vocals.  I can't remember what exactly, but seem to recall the background noise, pumping or somethings simular, or crumpled tape in part.  Do you recall any of those points when you worked with the transfer?   ~swd

[yrplace]

Are we talking about "part two" of the song? I don't recall any problems  with Brian's doubled vocal tracks which are what's heard on the GV box (easy way to check if I'm right btw) . There is a bit of a lurch" in the timing around the start of the 2nd verse in part one, but none of that section of Brian's demo was used in the B. Boys version on the album.

My impression w/out going back to the tapes is that Brian's complete doubled vocal is what's used on Pt two of the B. Boys version and except for the harmonies "ruins dominoe" etc. that there wasn't any extra lead done by Carl, but I could be wrong. If I get a chance I'll pull up the digital vackup copy of the final 16 track and see........ Mark

[cta]

Yeah, that 1966 "demo" recorded by Brian rocks. 

Sure, the Wallace version does what, later, people would have rather have heard given the fact of BW being the icon that he is. 

But something about that 1966 version solo at the piano...has this sad but colorful feel to it. 

[brother john]

The version on the GV box is all Brian and is from the original 3 track "demo" which was transferred to 16 track when the Beach Boys used it on the Surfs Up album.

Thanks Mark for your comments on this, and for those on the other thread.

[brother john]

Mark, there is something about the first part that caused Carl to redo some of the vocals.  I can't remember what exactly, but seem to recall the background noise, pumping or somethings simular, or crumpled tape in part.  Do you recall any of those points when you worked with the transfer?   ~swd

I have to say that, from a fan's point of view, Carl did a better job on pt1 than Brian did. Not just generally in the verses, but in the 'columnated ruins domino' part that may have just been to much of a stretch for BW on the day and sounds to me a little discordant. The way the song was finally finished is, for me, just perfect.

[cta]

Strongly disagree with you there Brother John.   

Yes, the Carl vocal is very good, but I think it jumbled the song's feel quite a bit.   I feel it would have been left better with Brian's lead the whole way OR Carl doing the whole thing instead of splitting it up with Brian.

I feel the same way about the God Only Knows mono with Brian at the tail end of it instead of Carl.  Sounds rather inconsistent.  The stereo version, vocal-wise, is a much better fit having Carl carrying is vocal all the way through. 

BUT...if Brian did do all of the 1971 Surf's Up and there WAS an alternate version of Carl doing what we now know as the 1971 SU version , 99% of us would be clamoring for that version years later just to see what it would sound like - if that was the case. 

Thankfully, we have both versions - the Desper and the Wallace versions. 

[brother john]

cta,

Its my humble opinion. To me Carl sounds better. Brian was smoking quite alot by then and sounds to be straining a little. Or maybe he just had an off day.

In terms of it being better to have the same vocalist all the way through, I know what you mean, but its always been a main feature of the Beach Boys that they swapped verses, sections, etc.