Who taught Brian how to produce music?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

A friend today told me that Jan Berry taught Brian how to produce. I had never heard this before. Is this true? I may not have the terms right, but my friend said something about Jan teaching Brian how the studio works or something to that effect.

[Robbie Mac]

Your friend is correct.  Brian learned a lot from the period that he was collaborating with Jan and Dean.  Jan might also have been. Brian's introduction to the Wrecking Crew, but I am not sure about that.

[rab2591]

Hal Blaine has recalled Brian sitting in the corner of the studio during many Spector sessions (even before the Wrecking Crew knew who Brian was). He'd take in what Spector was doing, how he got that 'Wall of Sound', how he'd dictate who did what in the studio, etc.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Very interesting. Thanks guys.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Carol Kaye. Remember, she was there, we weren't. She knows - we have no idea. 

[The Heartical Don]

IMHO Brian is a self-taught producer, a real autodidact.

To observe others giving directions, twiddling knobs, whatever, is one thing.

To assimilate all of that and to add very many unique personal touches to the whole is an entirely different thing.

I see him as a three-star chef de cuisine, whose name will forever be tied to a certain style, or a series of classic menus if you will, oft imitated, never equalled, let alone surpassed.

To ask who taught Brian to produce, is a question that never came up with me, to be honest. For yours truly, it's comparable to asking: who taught Herman Melville or Mark Twain to write?

[monicker]

Carol Kaye. Remember, she was there, we weren't. She knows - we have no idea. 

You were saying something in the Al Jardine thread about him being petty and bitter and how he should just let the music speak for itself?

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

A friend today told me that Jan Berry taught Brian how to produce. I had never heard this before.

Really?  AGD mentions it at Bellagio, I think PAC writes about it a bit in Catch a Wave, and I've seen it mentioned elsewhere too.  They say that Jan taught Brian how to produce a "clean" track (I don't actually know what that means), and that he also encouraged Brian to hire sessionists, specifically the Wrecking Crew (which I think Jan first assembled himself).

[LdC]

Id always assumed Brian thought he was doing Phil Spector.

[KittyKat]

Murry taught him some. Murry learned a little bit from doing demos for his songs. I'm sure he learned a bit from Morgan/Hite and also Nik Venet. He learned from the engineers on all his recordings, plus the studio musicians taught him some things about arranging.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Carol Kaye. Remember, she was there, we weren't. She knows - we have no idea. 

You were saying something in the Al Jardine thread about him being petty and bitter and how he should just let the music speak for itself?

I see the Lack Of SOH virus is spreading... 

[ontor pertawst]

Well, we tried to get you to take the vaccine but you refused!

[Mikie]

Murry taught him some. Murry learned a little bit from doing demos for his songs. I'm sure he learned a bit from Morgan/Hite and also Nik Venet. He learned from the engineers on all his recordings, plus the studio musicians taught him some things about arranging.

I think Brian already knew what Venet knew as far as producing. Venet got to be a pain in the ass and it didn't take long for Brian to ask that Venet be removed from the scene.

[ontor pertawst]

Plus they were all pioneering, experimenting, and inventing this stuff along the way!

[feelsflow]

IMHO Brian is a self-taught producer, a real autodidact.

To observe others giving directions, twiddling knobs, whatever, is one thing.

To assimilate all of that and to add very many unique personal touches to the whole is an entirely different thing.

I see him as a three-star chef de cuisine, whose name will forever be tied to a certain style, or a series of classic menus if you will, oft imitated, never equalled, let alone surpassed.

To ask who taught Brian to produce, is a question that never came up with me, to be honest. For yours truly, it's comparable to asking: who taught Herman Melville or Mark Twain to write?

  Good one Don.  Maybe nearest to the truth.  Strange no one has ever asked Brian.

[Ron]

IMHO Brian is a self-taught producer, a real autodidact.

To observe others giving directions, twiddling knobs, whatever, is one thing.

To assimilate all of that and to add very many unique personal touches to the whole is an entirely different thing.

I see him as a three-star chef de cuisine, whose name will forever be tied to a certain style, or a series of classic menus if you will, oft imitated, never equalled, let alone surpassed.

To ask who taught Brian to produce, is a question that never came up with me, to be honest. For yours truly, it's comparable to asking: who taught Herman Melville or Mark Twain to write?

I agree with what part of this I understood.  I think he basically kept his eyes open and learned the mechanics of it from their first sessions... probably learned some slick tricks from Jan and Phil... but in general he produces in a style all his own.  In general I think he was particularly good at making music that was commercially accessible, but was still fearlessly unique.  He did quirky things you're not supposed to do, by accident, because he didn't care that you're not supposed to do them.  Just little things... like changing the key in the middle of the last verse of Dance Dance Dance... or the way "I Get Around" goes all shaky kneed and crazy in the middle of each verse... or how "Don't Worry Baby" fades IN.  Find a song that fades IN.  Or how he has a bass, a standup bass, and a piano play the bassline at the same time... but only sometimes... in God Only Knows.  Or how in "What I Really Want For Christmas" he doubles himself... or doesn't... or has the band double him... or not... and is accompanied by piano... or not... or drums... or not... with seemingly no rhyme or reason all through the song.    Or how on "Shelter" he has the boys singing things in the background we can't quite hear audibly, lol. 

Nobody taught him most of that.

[Andrew G. Doe]

... or how "Don't Worry Baby" fades IN.  Find a song that fades IN. 

sh*t, even **I** can do that, and I'm no great Beatles fan. 

[Ron]

Yeah, certainly nothing special about that, right?

BTW, Don't Worry Baby, May 1964

Eight Days a Week - December 1964

[Magic Transistor Radio]

IMHO Brian is a self-taught producer, a real autodidact.

To observe others giving directions, twiddling knobs, whatever, is one thing.

To assimilate all of that and to add very many unique personal touches to the whole is an entirely different thing.

I see him as a three-star chef de cuisine, whose name will forever be tied to a certain style, or a series of classic menus if you will, oft imitated, never equalled, let alone surpassed.

To ask who taught Brian to produce, is a question that never came up with me, to be honest. For yours truly, it's comparable to asking: who taught Herman Melville or Mark Twain to write?

I agree with what part of this I understood.  I think he basically kept his eyes open and learned the mechanics of it from their first sessions... probably learned some slick tricks from Jan and Phil... but in general he produces in a style all his own.  In general I think he was particularly good at making music that was commercially accessible, but was still fearlessly unique.  He did quirky things you're not supposed to do, by accident, because he didn't care that you're not supposed to do them.  Just little things... like changing the key in the middle of the last verse of Dance Dance Dance... or the way "I Get Around" goes all shaky kneed and crazy in the middle of each verse... or how "Don't Worry Baby" fades IN.  Find a song that fades IN.  Or how he has a bass, a standup bass, and a piano play the bassline at the same time... but only sometimes... in God Only Knows.  Or how in "What I Really Want For Christmas" he doubles himself... or doesn't... or has the band double him... or not... and is accompanied by piano... or not... or drums... or not... with seemingly no rhyme or reason all through the song.    Or how on "Shelter" he has the boys singing things in the background we can't quite hear audibly, lol. 

Nobody taught him most of that.

That has been my impression as well. I don't ever recall reading that Jan Berry out right taught Brian how to produce. That is the impression my friend gave me. It doesn't surprise me that Brian watched several people do it and learned from all of them, just like listening to the Freshman, Chuck Berry, Dick Dale, etc to learn how to write music.


Also, about Jan Berry, BB documentaries don't seem to discuss this end as much outside of writing with Brian on Surf City, etc.  The focus tends to be on Phil Spector and Be My Baby when it comes to Brian's influence in producing.

And this may be shocking for a die hard Beach Boy fan, but I had never delved deep into Jan Berry music. Only recently did I read a post on hear about his fantastic productions and arrangements.

[37!ws]

Yeah, certainly nothing special about that, right?

BTW, Don't Worry Baby, May 1964

Eight Days a Week - December 1964

Down Bound Train, November 1955

(And I'd hardly call it a fade-in on DWB...if anything, it's just bad timing on the edit or the first beat just not played very loudly....)

[Cam Mott]

I'm sure Brian learned technique from lots of people but I think Brian always had everything thought out in his head and he told people what he wanted and left it to Chuck and the musicians to mostly figure out the how. Is that what all producers do?