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Author Topic: Post Pet Sounds: Brian's vision vs the band's vision  (Read 13214 times)
Justin
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« on: September 11, 2013, 03:31:07 PM »

I apologize for this topic because this may be something discussed here before.  I'm still a fan that is still trying to figure this band out.  I know that statement is a bit of an oxymoron but I'm really really trying!  I've reached a couple dead-ends that I'm hoping some of you could clear up for me.  Please feel free to correct my info or elaborate on anything I have written.

I'm having great difficulty grasping the band's inner dynamic during the 1967-1976 time frame.  I'm reading just how tumultuous this time was for Brian and it's pretty clear that one of the reasons for his downturn was because of the rejection he faced from the band regarding the music he wanted them to record.  My issue:  if they were all so displeased with a lot of Brian's compositions from this period (Smile especially)...how/why did they continue to record such obscure albums that were continuously unnoticed by the general public?  Even after they took the reigns away from Brian, they in a way still followed his lead with the few songs he did contribute and the songs they began to write on their own.   If Mike was so obsessed with the "formula", why didn't he get his way and get an album of surf/car/Chuck Berry songs again?  You'd think after the success of "Do It Again"--a song that was clearly a call back to their old sound--the band would have written an entire album in same same style.  But they didn't.   By the way, surely Mike wasn't the only one resisting Brian? Were Carl and Al also being difficult?

Don't get me wrong I'm happy things ended up the way they did---I love all the post Pet Sounds albums---but it just doesn't add up in my head how timid the band was at first to to adopt Brian's vision yet they themselves continued to write obscure, un-chartable songs that were STILL not really following the previous winning "formula." The band rejected Brian's "Adult Child" yet  they had recorded an even strange album with "Love You."  I mean...what??  How does that make sense?    I mean, were they tricked into doing "Love You?"  Obviously not...I just don't get the decisions they've made in their long, confusing career. 

I'm sorry for the rambling here but I'm just trying to piece it all together.  I'm currently reading books and watching documentaries about the hard time the band gave Brian during this period--yet they themselves weren't doing any better of a job getting number one hits.  In a way, I guess it's just sad that they couldn't just give Brian back the creative power that was always his.  But then again, had they not taken control who knows if we would haven't gotten these amazing songs from Dennis and Carl during this period. 

Justin =  Huh
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2013, 03:45:35 PM »

It would probably take a week for one of the more initiated board members to answer this question fully...

However I would say that one reason is that after Smile was abandoned, Brian was still in charge. Hence they released Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends etc. At that point it was becoming more of a group thing but Mike was still certainly not the all powerful leader.

Mike and Al were not happy with Love You either. But they had to release something...
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2013, 03:52:31 PM »

I apologize for this topic because this may be something discussed here before.  I'm still a fan that is still trying to figure this band out.  I know that statement is a bit of an oxymoron but I'm really really trying!  I've reached a couple dead-ends that I'm hoping some of you could clear up for me.  Please feel free to correct my info or elaborate on anything I have written.

I'm having great difficulty grasping the band's inner dynamic during the 1967-1976 time frame.  I'm reading just how tumultuous this time was for Brian and it's pretty clear that one of the reasons for his downturn was because of the rejection he faced from the band regarding the music he wanted them to record.  My issue:  if they were all so displeased with a lot of Brian's compositions from this period (Smile especially)...how/why did they continue to record such obscure albums that were continuously unnoticed by the general public?  Even after they took the reigns away from Brian, they in a way still followed his lead with the few songs he did contribute and the songs they began to write on their own.   If Mike was so obsessed with the "formula", why didn't he get his way and get an album of surf/car/Chuck Berry songs again?  You'd think after the success of "Do It Again"--a song that was clearly a call back to their old sound--the band would have written an entire album in same same style.  But they didn't.   By the way, surely Mike wasn't the only one resisting Brian? Were Carl and Al also being difficult?

Don't get me wrong I'm happy things ended up the way they did---I love all the post Pet Sounds albums---but it just doesn't add up in my head how timid the band was at first to to adopt Brian's vision yet they themselves continued to write obscure, un-chartable songs that were STILL not really following the previous winning "formula." The band rejected Brian's "Adult Child" yet  they had recorded an even strange album with "Love You."  I mean...what??  How does that make sense?    I mean, were they tricked into doing "Love You?"  Obviously not...I just don't get the decisions they've made in their long, confusing career. 

I'm sorry for the rambling here but I'm just trying to piece it all together.  I'm currently reading books and watching documentaries about the hard time the band gave Brian during this period--yet they themselves weren't doing any better of a job getting number one hits.  In a way, I guess it's just sad that they couldn't just give Brian back the creative power that was always his.  But then again, had they not taken control who knows if we would haven't gotten these amazing songs from Dennis and Carl during this period. 

Justin =  Huh

I think I'll find somewhere to hide in order to avoid the shrapnel this one will send flying!!!!  Shocked
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Wirestone
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2013, 04:08:15 PM »

I think it's safe to say in a situation like this that the simplest answer is usually the best. The band gave Brian some resistance, but I doubt his issues were all about that. Brian was in a bad place mentally. There were no hits, even when he stepped up to contribute more. So he retreated, year by year.

And it's not like anyone else in the band was qualified or prepared to take over. Brian was still mostly producing the records up until 20/20, even when they were credited to the group. Everyone had to learn how to write and produce and carry the band on their shoulders. And the ones who had the most talent (Dennis, Carl) were the least likely to want to go backward stylistically.
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Shady
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2013, 04:18:07 PM »

It makes no sense, so don't try to make sense of it.

I just go by my theory that Mike was unhappy with being replaced by VDP, Brian was mentally fragile and the rest of The Beach Boys never had a problem with smile to begin with.

Post smile balance was restored and they were all following Brian again, best they could.

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According to someone who would know.

Seriously, there was a Beach Boys Love You condom?!  Amazing.
adamghost
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 04:32:13 PM »

Something to keep in mind is when you're inside a band, you don't always see things the way a fan does, or even understand the basis of your own band's appeal.  I know that's a hard concept to grasp if you're a fan on the outside.  So the perspective of the inside is a lot different.

I think there was probably a lot of head scratching about what exactly the Beach Boys represented and how to get that in tune with the times.  Ironically enough, circa 1970, Al probably had the most viable vision -- his folky take on the band was both reasonably in sync with the counterculture and he had the commercial smarts to make "Cottonfields" a worldwide hit.  Problem was Al was never a very prolific songwriter nor a power player in the band.  Carl finally emerged dominant  in '71 with Jack Rieley's backing, and they made some headway on the FM dial and with hipster perceptions of the band, but couldn't score a hit ("Sail On Sailor" came closest at #49, and even that was on its second go 'round in 1975) -- which is why when ENDLESS SUMMER came along, the balance of power shifted yet again.
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DonnyL
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 04:42:27 PM »

Brian couldn't and wouldn't finish Smile, Beach Boys or not. He fumbled through it and the window of opportunity closed, and that was that.

Brian's goal for the Beach Boys after Smile, in my opinion, was just to cool out and make music without the hang-ups of competition that wore him down.

I think after Friends, Brian pulled back from the Beach Boys.

There's a common thread in anecdotes from Brian's friends at the time ... the common thread is that Dennis and Carl were supportive and Mike was not. Al and Bruce were likely not a strong influence. Mike is an 'alpha male' kind of person. These are just different personality types.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 04:50:38 PM by DonnyL » Logged

Wirestone
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 04:57:06 PM »

And Brian could deal with, and create sparks with, Mike in the early years. In the late 60s and early 70s, I suspect he began to see it as less inspiring and more of a drag. Nothing that would keep him from making music, but certainly at a point (when he claimed his real band was American Spring, for example), he felt alienated from the band dynamic and all the interpersonal stuff it entailed. He just wanted to do his thing without hassles.

And remember -- this was still a band that would literally throw away reams of their best mid-70s material to let Brian produce 15BO for them. So it's not like they ever stopped looking to him for guidance. (After the late 70s, early 80s meltdown, it was a different story.)
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 04:58:06 PM »

Brian couldn't and wouldn't finish Smile, Beach Boys or not. He fumbled through it and the window of opportunity closed, and that was that.

Brian's goal for the Beach Boys after Smile, in my opinion, was just to cool out and make music without the hang-ups of competition that wore him down.

I think after Friends, Brian pulled back from the Beach Boys.

There's a common thread in anecdotes from Brian's friends at the time ... the common thread is that Dennis and Carl were supportive and Mike was not. Al and Bruce were likely not a strong influence. Mike is an 'alpha male' kind of person. These are just different personality types.



You edited out the most interesting part!  Smiley
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DonnyL
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 05:11:51 PM »

Brian couldn't and wouldn't finish Smile, Beach Boys or not. He fumbled through it and the window of opportunity closed, and that was that.

Brian's goal for the Beach Boys after Smile, in my opinion, was just to cool out and make music without the hang-ups of competition that wore him down.

I think after Friends, Brian pulled back from the Beach Boys.

There's a common thread in anecdotes from Brian's friends at the time ... the common thread is that Dennis and Carl were supportive and Mike was not. Al and Bruce were likely not a strong influence. Mike is an 'alpha male' kind of person. These are just different personality types.



You edited out the most interesting part!  Smiley

ha! thanks, I decided to start a new thread just for that!:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16349.msg400864.html#msg400864
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 05:26:15 PM »

I'm a big fan of the 1967-73 period, but there isn't a Beach Boy era/album that I don't enjoy. However, while many fans appreciate the more simplistic, less dynamic production of Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, and a smattering of 1967-73 BW songs, I sometimes wonder what Brian would've produced if he was still recording consistently and overwhelmingly with The Wrecking Crew.

When Brian stopped the kind of sessions that dominated Summer Days (And Summer Nights), Pet Sounds, and SMiLE, everything seemed to change - the sound, the direction, and the hit records. In my opinion, things changed because of two main reasons. For a lot of the recording, Brian's home studio replaced Western, Sunset, Gold Star, Columbia, and others - and - more and more, the Beach Boys replaced The Wrecking Crew. We can speculate - and probably correctly - why they went with a home studio; as a fan I wish they hadn't. Compare the backing tracks from 1965-66 to 1967-73. Not that there wasn't anything brilliant post-SMiLE, but there was a lot less.

Additionally, and maybe one of the reasons why Brian wasn't conducting sessions like he did in 1964-66, was because of his increasing addiction to drugs. The drugs that once fueled his creativity on some of his prior recordings were now working against him, and producing conflicting results. I sometimes wonder if Brian lost his confidence and ability to concentrate to hold recording sessions like he used to. I don't know - but wonder - if he ever got frustrated with the home studio and longed for the "old days" with his friends, The Wrecking Crew. Knowing Brian, he wasn't gonna say anything. I realize times were different, but I wish Brian would've entered rehab in 1967 and gotten treatment. I think Justin's question about Brian's post-Pet Sounds vision would've been a lot different.
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Marcella
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 05:35:10 PM »

Keep in mind that their contract with Reprise in 1970 called for Brian as the lead composer, which he really wasn't, but there had to be Brian at the fore to keep the record contracts coming.

I agree though, as a fan who got introduced to the band with SMiLE, the story about Mike stopping SMiLE from ever happening just doesn't add up. If Mike thought SMiLE strayed too far from the "formula," how in the world would he agree to release Smiley Smile, which is by far a more advant garde/less commercial offering. I am convinced that many factors led to SMiLE's demise, including band resistance, but if I assign a "fault percentage" to Mike I'd give him 5-10% of the blame.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 05:36:32 PM »

I'm a big fan of the 1967-73 period, but there isn't a Beach Boy era/album that I don't enjoy. However, while many fans appreciate the more simplistic, less dynamic production of Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, and a smattering of 1967-73 BW songs, I sometimes wonder what Brian would've produced if he was still recording consistently and overwhelmingly with The Wrecking Crew.

When Brian stopped the kind of sessions that dominated Summer Days (And Summer Nights), Pet Sounds, and SMiLE, everything seemed to change - the sound, the direction, and the hit records. In my opinion, things changed because of two main reasons. For a lot of the recording, Brian's home studio replaced Western, Sunset, Gold Star, Columbia, and others - and - more and more, the Beach Boys replaced The Wrecking Crew. We can speculate - and probably correctly - why they went with a home studio; as a fan I wish they hadn't. Compare the backing tracks from 1965-66 to 1967-73. Not that there wasn't anything brilliant post-SMiLE, but there was a lot less.

Additionally, and maybe one of the reasons why Brian wasn't conducting sessions like he did in 1964-66, was because of his increasing addiction to drugs. The drugs that once fueled his creativity on some of his prior recordings were now working against him, and producing conflicting results. I sometimes wonder if Brian lost his confidence and ability to concentrate to hold recording sessions like he used to. I don't know - but wonder - if he ever got frustrated with the home studio and longed for the "old days" with his friends, The Wrecking Crew. Knowing Brian, he wasn't gonna say anything. I realize times were different, but I wish Brian would've entered rehab in 1967 and gotten treatment. I think Justin's question about Brian's post-Pet Sounds vision would've been a lot different.

If you replace drugs with the words "mental illness," I agree with everything here.

IMO, drugs are a red herring in the Brian Wilson story. Blamed for everything but responsible for little of it (well, maybe some grooviness here and there). The prescription drugs of Landy, on the other hand ...
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Justin
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 05:46:33 PM »

And the ones who had the most talent (Dennis, Carl) were the least likely to want to go backward stylistically.

That's what I thought.  Their songwriting definitely reflected that fact.  Were there any instances of Carl or Dennis not supporting Brian?

Brian couldn't and wouldn't finish Smile, Beach Boys or not. He fumbled through it and the window of opportunity closed, and that was that.

Brian's goal for the Beach Boys after Smile, in my opinion, was just to cool out and make music without the hang-ups of competition that wore him down.

I think after Friends, Brian pulled back from the Beach Boys.

There's a common thread in anecdotes from Brian's friends at the time ... the common thread is that Dennis and Carl were supportive and Mike was not. Al and Bruce were likely not a strong influence. Mike is an 'alpha male' kind of person. These are just different personality types.


I'm surprised Mike didn't influence Brian to write more simple Chuck Berry influenced tunes to try to recapture their old magic.  I'm glad they didn't obviously--but surprised that each post Pet Sounds album wasn't littered with at least one "Surfin' USA Part 2" type of song. 

I'm a big fan of the 1967-73 period, but there isn't a Beach Boy era/album that I don't enjoy. However, while many fans appreciate the more simplistic, less dynamic production of Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, and a smattering of 1967-73 BW songs, I sometimes wonder what Brian would've produced if he was still recording consistently and overwhelmingly with The Wrecking Crew.

When Brian stopped the kind of sessions that dominated Summer Days (And Summer Nights), Pet Sounds, and SMiLE, everything seemed to change - the sound, the direction, and the hit records. In my opinion, things changed because of two main reasons. For a lot of the recording, Brian's home studio replaced Western, Sunset, Gold Star, Columbia, and others - and - more and more, the Beach Boys replaced The Wrecking Crew. We can speculate - and probably correctly - why they went with a home studio; as a fan I wish they hadn't. Compare the backing tracks from 1965-66 to 1967-73. Not that there wasn't anything brilliant post-SMiLE, but there was a lot less.

Additionally, and maybe one of the reasons why Brian wasn't conducting sessions like he did in 1964-66, was because of his increasing addiction to drugs. The drugs that once fueled his creativity on some of his prior recordings were now working against him, and producing conflicting results. I sometimes wonder if Brian lost his confidence and ability to concentrate to hold recording sessions like he used to. I don't know - but wonder - if he ever got frustrated with the home studio and longed for the "old days" with his friends, The Wrecking Crew. Knowing Brian, he wasn't gonna say anything. I realize times were different, but I wish Brian would've entered rehab in 1967 and gotten treatment. I think Justin's question about Brian's post-Pet Sounds vision would've been a lot different.

Yes I wonder that as well and is definitely an angle related to my original post. Great post!

I agree though, as a fan who got introduced to the band with SMiLE, the story about Mike stopping SMiLE from ever happening just doesn't add up. If Mike thought SMiLE strayed too far from the "formula," how in the world would he agree to release Smiley Smile, which is by far a more advant garde/less commercial offering. I am convinced that many factors led to SMiLE's demise, including band resistance, but if I assign a "fault percentage" to Mike I'd give him 5-10% of the blame.

Yes exactly!  There's such a contradiction here, things aren't exactly lining up.  Were people overexaggerating Mike's unwillingness to be move forward?  It looked as though Mike wanted to keep moving forward (otherwise why would he record all those albums? Why would he perform new songs in concert?) it's just that he had his limits on how "out there" he wanted to go, musically.


In a way I think a part of me wonders why it took so long for the Mike Love era (The Beach Boys '85 and Still Cruisin, Summer in Paradise) to arrive?  Please don't misunderstand that I think it should have come earlier but after all the "missteps"(at least what the band perceived as missteps) in the 70's..it's unbelievable that they continued on with this identity crisis for another decade or so until they finally settled in the formulaic "fun in the sun" image.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 06:00:21 PM by Justin » Logged
clack
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 05:55:50 PM »

It's easy from the perspective of 2013 to get hung up on "hits". In 1966, say, hits were almost all that mattered, after '69 or so, singles chart success meant very little -- the album was the basic unit. FM radio played album cuts, AM played singles, and many of the biggest rock acts didn't even bother releasing singles. So, 'Sail on Sailor' was a hit, a hit where it mattered -- on FM radio.  

1970 Mike was a hippie , if only an ersatz one. His ambition was to make "progressive" music, same as the rest of the band. Surf music and car songs were as dead as doo wop. Mike's interest in making retro music has been greatly exaggerated. That's more Brian's thing. Mike was always much more interested in staying current.

Now Brian -- I think he initially saw his career as following the Phil Spector paradigm. Using the Beach Boys as a stepping stone, then moving on in a few years to being a behind-the-scenes producer/writer/arranger for other acts. But by the late 60's, bands were producing and writing their own material -- Brian was stuck with the Beach Boys.
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Justin
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 05:58:53 PM »

If you replace drugs with the words "mental illness," I agree with everything here.

IMO, drugs are a red herring in the Brian Wilson story. Blamed for everything but responsible for little of it (well, maybe some grooviness here and there). The prescription drugs of Landy, on the other hand ...

I agree that it would be sloppy to blame it all on the drugs.  Brian was/is a very fragile person: is it fair to say that the resistance he faced from the band regarding his new music and the poor performance of albums (like "Sunflower") pushed Brian more and more to drugs and seclusion?
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2013, 06:59:46 PM »

Mike's interest in making retro music has been greatly exaggerated. That's more Brian's thing. Mike was always much more interested in staying current.

I think that's true. Until 1974 came around and Mike decided that he would act like it was 1963 for the rest of his life.
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2013, 07:04:51 PM »

Brian was enthusiastic about American Spring (as they were about working with him), and he was unable to fully produce their record, either, so it can't be all down to the band and whether they wanted to work with him or vice versa.

As for Mike wanting to act like it was 1963 when '74 rolled around, it had more than a little to do with the success of the "Endless Summer" oldies collection that went multi-platinum around that time and let the Beach Boys play large arenas and stadiums. I'm not sure the Beach Boys would ever have any other audience besides as an oldies act, wishful thinking of the hardcore fan base aside. I sometimes read comments about how the Beach Boys should regard themselves as the equal of McCartney and the Stones, but if they actually did that, they'd still be playing mostly oldies. Do the Stones and McCartney play much new material? Heck even Springsteen's audience mostly goes to hear "Born to Run."

 
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2013, 07:25:23 PM »

And the ones who had the most talent (Dennis, Carl) were the least likely to want to go backward stylistically.


In a way I think a part of me wonders why it took so long for the Mike Love era (The Beach Boys '85 and Still Cruisin, Summer in Paradise) to arrive?  Please don't misunderstand that I think it should have come earlier but after all the "missteps"(at least what the band perceived as missteps) in the 70's..it's unbelievable that they continued on with this identity crisis for another decade or so until they finally settled in the formulaic "fun in the sun" image.

I hate to say it, but I feel that part of that had to do with Dennis having passed away, and no longer being someone to voice an opposition to the band artistically grinding to a halt. I realize that (barring L.A. Light Album), most of the post-Holland records have a declining DW presence, but it just seems like his no longer being around helped make it easier for The Beach Boys '85 + Still Cruisin + Summer in Paradise to happen.  I mean, it's hard to imagine "Wipe Out' happening while Dennis was alive and actually part of the band.

And yes, I realize that he had less of a "voting" voice in the last few years of his life, especially due to his addictions...but with someone (DW) who would almost certainly raise opposition to the full-on total formulaic "fun in the sun" image permanently out of the picture, it just made things easier to happen the way they did. Mind you, I still have an affection for a number of BB tunes from the 80s/90s.

It also seems, IMO, that Carl (after his brother's passing) probably further gave in/gave up more into the formula than he had before (not that Carl's giving in mentality hadn't started pre '83, it just seemed to flower more after that)... maybe it was his way to keep things simpler and more peaceful after such a traumatic event. DW's passing probably helped dampen CW's artistic ambitions, or at least as far as if those ambitions came at the cost of further BB-band infighting. Again, just IMHO.
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2013, 07:37:31 PM »

Brian was enthusiastic about American Spring (as they were about working with him), and he was unable to fully produce their record, either, so it can't be all down to the band and whether they wanted to work with him or vice versa.

As for Mike wanting to act like it was 1963 when '74 rolled around, it had more than a little to do with the success of the "Endless Summer" oldies collection that went multi-platinum around that time and let the Beach Boys play large arenas and stadiums. I'm not sure the Beach Boys would ever have any other audience besides as an oldies act, wishful thinking of the hardcore fan base aside. I sometimes read comments about how the Beach Boys should regard themselves as the equal of McCartney and the Stones, but if they actually did that, they'd still be playing mostly oldies. Do the Stones and McCartney play much new material? Heck even Springsteen's audience mostly goes to hear "Born to Run."

 

I understand what you're saying. But McCartney and the Stones weren't playing almost exclusively oldies until at least a decade later.

The Beach Boys just severely mismanaged their career. It started in a big way with the abandonment of Smile. I could go on and on with how they screwed up from 1967 onward but the explanation would get long. It set them up to be almost forced to embrace the "oldies act" thing. But even with that being the case, they still could have attempted to diversify and capitalize on their renewed popularityin the mid-70s. They didn't and by the 80s were a parody of themselves. And the mismanagement of their legacy continues to this day, represented by the horrible end to the brilliant 50th anniversary tour.
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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2013, 07:41:07 PM »

I don't know if Mike really wanted to lead the band creatively for much of this time. Brian had led creatively in the 60s, and Carl was the de facto musical director in the 70s. I think Mike saw his role as conceptual (coming up with lyrics and ideas for hit songs) and as a front man. But by the early 80s, you have all three Wilsons self-destructing onstage. It's an ugly, ugly time following an ugly spell in the late 70s.

So Mike realizes around then, I think, that it's really up to him. And Carl, once back in the band, realizes that maybe he shouldn't try to destroy himself to keep Brian's ambitions alive when a fractured Brian is being slowly reassembled by Dr. Landy. Dennis is dead. What are the other options for the band? They went Mike's route when they were truly out of ideas and no Wilson could save them.

As for Brian, the band's history ultimately became too much to bear. Too much of a hassle. Even though he was a mentally ill man in his 60s, once the BBs were out of the picture and Carl was gone, Brian was suddenly able to be more productive. I don't think that's an accident. I don't think that's by chance or merely the prodding of Melinda. He could only do what he wanted to do when he didn't have to wrangle with a band.

Eventually, when the remaining members of group reunited, there was no question of who was calling the shots in the studio (who produced and wrote and sang most of the leads on the record, regardless of the shape of his voice?) and onstage (whose band was there?).

Brian wants to be in charge, but he doesn't want to have to fight for it.
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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2013, 07:44:20 PM »

I don't know if Mike really wanted to lead the band creatively for much of this time. Brian had led creatively in the 60s, and Carl was the de facto musical director in the 70s. I think Mike saw his role as conceptual (coming up with lyrics and ideas for hit songs) and as a front man. But by the early 80s, you have all three Wilsons self-destructing onstage. It's an ugly, ugly time following an ugly spell in the late 70s.

So Mike realizes at that time, I think, that it's really up to him. And Carl, once back in the band, realizes that maybe he shouldn't try to destroy himself to keep Brian's ambitions alive when a fractured Brian is being slowly reassembled by Dr. Landy. Dennis is dead. What are the other options for the band? They went Mike's route when they were truly out of ideas, and no Wilson could save them.

I agree, it was bad. Breaking up/taking a break was probably a better option at this time, though.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2013, 07:47:42 PM »

I agree, it was bad. Breaking up/taking a break was probably a better option at this time, though.

For sane people, yes.
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Smile4ever
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2013, 07:50:34 PM »

I agree, it was bad. Breaking up/taking a break was probably a better option at this time, though.

For sane people, yes.

Haha. Good point again.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2013, 07:53:12 PM »

Mike's interest in making retro music has been greatly exaggerated. That's more Brian's thing. Mike was always much more interested in staying current.

I think that's true. Until 1974 came around and Mike decided that he would act like it was 1963 for the rest of his life.

I just want to address that specific 1974-75 period for a second. This is an (incomplete, albeit selective) list of No. 1 songs from 1974-75:

1974:
"You're Sixteen" - Ringo Starr
"Season's In The Sun" - Terry Jacks
"Sunshine On My Shoulders" - John Denver
"The Loco-Motion" - Grand Funk
"The Streak" - Ray Stevens
"You're Having My Baby" - Paul Anka
"Whatever Gets You Thru The Night" - John Lennon
"I Can Help" - Billy Swan

1975:
"Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" - Elton John
"Please Mr. Postman" - The Carpenters
"He Don't Love You (Like I Love You)" - Tony Orlando & dawn
"My Eyes Adored You" - Frankie Valli
"Before The Next Teardrop Falls" - Freddy Fender
"Love Will Keep Us Together" - Captain & Tennille
"Listen To What The Man Said" - Wings
"Rhinestone Cowboy" - Glen Campbell

So, what's the point? Grin I'm not sure they - The Beach Boys - felt that they were "going back" or not being hip or taking a back seat to the current crop of artists and songs that were popular. During that particular time frame, the U.S. was just getting out of Vietnam, getting over Nixon, and experiencing "happy" days again, literally. You had the popularity of American Graffiti, the TV shows Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley, and the impending bicentennial. Fun is in, it's no sin! It was hip to cruise in your car again, to like old time rock & roll, to have long hair and a beard but NOT be a hippie.

The Beach Boys were perfect for that time. Perfect. They could be themselves and still be cool. I mean, look at some of the hit songs they were competing against. They didn't have to force anything. They didn't need a SMiLE to compete. "Beach Boyish" music was still better than most. They were the real deal. The "hip" music of that day was disco music (which was coming) and glitter/glam rock. It wasn't Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, or Holland-like.

Of course by 1977 all of that would change, or start to change. That's another topic for another thread. But, in my opinion, and as someone who lived through that period, The Beach Boys going back or going retro or giving up what they built in 1970-73 was not seen as a bad thing. I know that's what most fans wanted and, if the group didn't really believe it or weren't really behind it, boy, they sure fooled the public for a few years.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 08:00:06 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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