Post Pet Sounds: Brian's vision vs the band's vision

[Sheriff John Stone]

I always thought it was too bad that they didn't utilize BRI more for side projects. Brian could have pursued his more artistic projects there, while reserving the more commercial efforts for Capitol. Of course, that assumes that Brian was healthy enough to follow through on those projects, and I'm not sure he really was.

The best side project(s) that could've been pursued would've been Brian Wilson solo albums. In some ways, it seemed like a no-brainer. Brian could've recorded all of his eclectic, personal, "arty" songs and released them under his name. Then he could've given/recorded all of his "Beach Boy-ish" songs to the group. Then we could've gotten ALL of Brian's creativity and ideas out there - SMiLE, a 1970-71 solo album, etc.

Of course there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening, but just think it they could've pulled it off! The Beach Boys could never agree on that, and, as you mentioned, after 1968 Brian might not have been up to it.

That's why I think it was a missed opportunity. Apparently Brian felt the "boys" didn't like to take on some of his efforts.  "Til I Die," comes to mind.  Brian apparently worried about the "downer" content enough that he wrote alternate lyrics.  Yes, I know they did record it. Yes, I know it was on the album. But, if there had been an alternate outlet for those kinds of things, Brian could have gone ahead and poured himself into whatever similar ideas struck him, without worrying about the band's or Capitol's take on them. Ditto for rest of the guys. Anything that didn't "fit" with the Beach Boys could have been developed as a personal side project without any conflict from the others. It could have been a bit of a creative safe haven for each member of the band.

I agree. Look at my fantasy BW solo album above. SOMEBODY didn't want those songs on a Beach Boys' album.

[Sheriff John Stone]

SJS...Swap Til I Die and OMR, and you got yourself a deal.

Deal!

[Cyncie]

I always thought it was too bad that they didn't utilize BRI more for side projects. Brian could have pursued his more artistic projects there, while reserving the more commercial efforts for Capitol. Of course, that assumes that Brian was healthy enough to follow through on those projects, and I'm not sure he really was.

The best side project(s) that could've been pursued would've been Brian Wilson solo albums. In some ways, it seemed like a no-brainer. Brian could've recorded all of his eclectic, personal, "arty" songs and released them under his name. Then he could've given/recorded all of his "Beach Boy-ish" songs to the group. Then we could've gotten ALL of Brian's creativity and ideas out there - SMiLE, a 1970-71 solo album, etc.

Of course there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening, but just think it they could've pulled it off! The Beach Boys could never agree on that, and, as you mentioned, after 1968 Brian might not have been up to it.

That's why I think it was a missed opportunity. Apparently Brian felt the "boys" didn't like to take on some of his efforts.  "Til I Die," comes to mind.  Brian apparently worried about the "downer" content enough that he wrote alternate lyrics.  Yes, I know they did record it. Yes, I know it was on the album. But, if there had been an alternate outlet for those kinds of things, Brian could have gone ahead and poured himself into whatever similar ideas struck him, without worrying about the band's or Capitol's take on them. Ditto for rest of the guys. Anything that didn't "fit" with the Beach Boys could have been developed as a personal side project without any conflict from the others. It could have been a bit of a creative safe haven for each member of the band.

I agree. Look at my fantasy BW solo album above. SOMEBODY didn't want those songs on a Beach Boys' album.

There you go! Nice Brian Wilson solo project there, on fantasy Brother Records.

[runnersdialzero]

I don't think the band bullying Brian was the reason the likes of "Games Two Can Play" or "I Just Got My Pay" weren't released.

Also, "Awake" was for the Spring project. I don't think Brian even wrote it, at least not the basis of it.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I don't think the band bullying Brian was the reason the likes of "Games Two Can Play" or "I Just Got My Pay" weren't released.

Also, "Awake" was for the Spring project. I don't think Brian even wrote it, at least not the basis of it.

You're right. Like I said it was just something that I put together quickly. But I'll bet you could come up with a 1970-71 solo album of BW-composed songs that didn't appear on Sunflower or Surf's Up - and/or might've gotten some resistance.

[drbeachboy]

I don't think the band bullying Brian was the reason the likes of "Games Two Can Play" or "I Just Got My Pay" weren't released.

Also, "Awake" was for the Spring project. I don't think Brian even wrote it, at least not the basis of it.

You can bet that besides any members having issues, Jack or Reprise would have.

[monicker]

I always thought it was too bad that they didn't utilize BRI more for side projects. Brian could have pursued his more artistic projects there, while reserving the more commercial efforts for Capitol. Of course, that assumes that Brian was healthy enough to follow through on those projects, and I'm not sure he really was.

The best side project(s) that could've been pursued would've been Brian Wilson solo albums. In some ways, it seemed like a no-brainer. Brian could've recorded all of his eclectic, personal, "arty" songs and released them under his name. Then he could've given/recorded all of his "Beach Boy-ish" songs to the group. Then we could've gotten ALL of Brian's creativity and ideas out there - SMiLE, a 1970-71 solo album, etc.

Of course there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening, but just think it they could've pulled it off! The Beach Boys could never agree on that, and, as you mentioned, after 1968 Brian might not have been up to it.

That's why I think it was a missed opportunity. Apparently Brian felt the "boys" didn't like to take on some of his efforts.  "Til I Die," comes to mind.  Brian apparently worried about the "downer" content enough that he wrote alternate lyrics.  Yes, I know they did record it. Yes, I know it was on the album. But, if there had been an alternate outlet for those kinds of things, Brian could have gone ahead and poured himself into whatever similar ideas struck him, without worrying about the band's or Capitol's take on them. Ditto for rest of the guys. Anything that didn't "fit" with the Beach Boys could have been developed as a personal side project without any conflict from the others. It could have been a bit of a creative safe haven for each member of the band.

But the conflicting views/aesthetics/tastes/styles, etc. within a band is often what makes a band most interesting. I think that had Brian, Dennis, and Carl done solo albums by taking all their own respective material that wasn't quite "Beach Boys music," you'd end up with less exciting Beach Boys albums (because you're cutting out the drama, tension and diversity), and possibly dull solo albums because they'd all be distilled down to a single personality. I've felt strongly that the various styles and approaches within the band was always one of their biggest strengths. Personally, i find bands that are always on the same page tend to be boring.

Re: the sheriff's hypothetical track list for a solo BW album in '71: Who sings the backing vocals? Backing vocal arrangements are at the core of how Brian has always written music. I don't think that would have changed, and i shudder at the thought of him eschewing backing vocals because he's recording a "solo" album and doesn't have the group. So then, what, does he do all the parts himself? That's a step down in musical quality compared to having the group. Does he hire session singers? I can't imagine him having gone that route or it turning out too successfully if he had decided to try that. So does the group do the parts anyway, as a favor or as hired guns? What then is the point? It's the Beach Boys on record but under the name of their leader. Why not drop the pretense and just put it out under The Beach Boys? And here we are again. Who knows, maybe Brian himself didn't want those songs released. All i know is that i'm arguing about the possibilities of a band's direction...42 years ago 

[Bean Bag]

My issue:  if they were all so displeased with a lot of Brian's compositions from this period (Smile especially)...how/why did they continue to record such obscure albums that were continuously unnoticed by the general public?  ... If Mike was so obsessed with the "formula", why didn't he get his way and get an album of surf/car/Chuck Berry songs again?  You'd think after the success of "Do It Again"--a song that was clearly a call back to their old sound--the band would have written an entire album in same same style.  But they didn't.

Without Brian = not the Beach Boys.  Just Al.  Mike.  Denny.  Carl.  And Bruce.  Each one had talents.  During the 1967 - 1976 period that you mentioned, we got to see some of those talents.  Some good moments and some pretty great ones.  The best ones usually involved Brian.  Not always.  But usually.

As for the formula -- It's possible they may have stopped believing in it themselves.  But again, SANS-BRIAN, they were "a cork in the ocean."  Brian knew the formula... and its secret ingredient(s).  I don't think it was as easy as it sounded.

Do It Again was Brian and Mike, doing it again per Mike's insistence that they "do it again, like we used to."  And, sho'nuff it worked.

But again, Brian needed to be dragged to it.  Without Brian, "the formula" resulted in stuff like Summer In Paradise and Kokomo, which needed about 20 assistants, a human brain, 1.21 Jigawatts and a Navajo Medicine Man to even get that.   

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

My issue:  if they were all so displeased with a lot of Brian's compositions from this period (Smile especially)...how/why did they continue to record such obscure albums that were continuously unnoticed by the general public?  ... If Mike was so obsessed with the "formula", why didn't he get his way and get an album of surf/car/Chuck Berry songs again?  You'd think after the success of "Do It Again"--a song that was clearly a call back to their old sound--the band would have written an entire album in same same style.  But they didn't.

Without Brian = not the Beach Boys.  Just Al.  Mike.  Denny.  Carl.  And Bruce.  Each one had talents.  During the 1967 - 1976 period that you mentioned, we got to see some of those talents.  Some good moments and some pretty great ones.  The best ones usually involved Brian.  Not always.  But usually.

As for the formula -- It's possible they may have stopped believing in it themselves.  But again, SANS-BRIAN, they were "a cork in the ocean."  Brian knew the formula... and its secret ingredient(s).  I don't think it was as easy as it sounded.

Do It Again was Brian and Mike, doing it again per Mike's insistence that they "do it again, like we used to."  And, sho'nuff it worked.

But again, Brian needed to be dragged to it.  Without Brian, "the formula" resulted in stuff like Summer In Paradise and Kokomo, which needed about 20 assistants, a human brain, 1.21 Jigawatts and a Navajo Medicine Man to even get that.  

Without Brian, "the formula" also resulted in Carl & The Passions, Holland, LA, POB, and many a song on previous albums. These guys were professional singers/musicians/songwriters, Brian or no Brian.... They were never as lost as endlessly perpetuated legend would have it.

[Bean Bag]

Yeah, they did some awesome stuff without Brian... but it was not "the formula" that Justin was wondering why they weren't using.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yes, the formula was most certainly f***ed with!

That, we can agree on