Sloop John B - Did it belong on Pet Sounds?

[Waspinators]

I've heard from so many folks (including ol' Bruce) that Sloop John B sticks out like a sore thumb on Pet Sounds and nearly kills the flow of the album. Many of these people state that it would've fit much better on Summer Days, and some even note that TLGIOK would've been a better fit to close side 1. Personally I think that's absolute poppycock. Though it is a cover, I think Sloop fits like a glove on PS and is the perfect closer to the first side. It's lush, melancholy and nostalgic in a similar manner to That's Not Me or even Caroline, No to a degree. It would've been downright jarring to include on SDSM in my opinion, as would the bouncy TLGIOK on PS. The way it builds up in momentum until the fade-out into the end of the side has always been a bit of a highlight on the LP for me, not to mention the meticulous instrumentation characteristic of the record.

I wasn't able to find a topic dedicated to this debate, so I'd love to hear what you all think.

[Niko]

I've always thought it was like an acid trip in the middle of the Pet Sounds story. He's hallucinating he's part of crew and wants to "go home", or stop tripping.

[runnersdialzero]

The problem with Bruce's "should have been on Summer Days" comment is the first "Sloop" session took place a week after that album came out. I guess it's easy to forget that in the flurry of sessions etc. back then, though.

I can't imagine Summer Days with "Sloop John B" on it, but I especially can't imagine Pet Sounds without it. People's assertion that Pet Sounds was meant to be some kind of concept album with a story and "Sloop John B" disrupts that is their own false perception. The same logic should dictate that songs like "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" and "Pet Sounds" don't belong either, yet no one complains about them because they weren't singles that big bad Capitol (and Mike, no doubt) could force Lord Brian to put on his rebellious avant-garde concept album (p.s. marijuana is a vegetable).

[Smilin Ed H]

Not again.

[Ovi]

For me it works just as Money does on Dark Side Of The Moon, Butcher's Tale on Odessey and Oracle, Here She Comes Now on White Light/White Heat, More Fool Me on Selling England By The Pound - i.e, as the needed counterpoint.

[JK]

I have never regarded Pet Sounds as a "story", "concept album", etc. It's a perfectly-crafted cycle of songs and instrumentals, and "Sloop John B" most certainly belongs in there (as does the sublime title track). Brian thought so too----and that's good enough for me. :=)

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

The baroque production style and musical/vocal arrangement fit in with everything else on Pet Sounds; the fact that the lyrics don't relate to those other songs doesn't matter much, in my view.  I tend to think that the idea of the songs of Pet Sounds telling a story or something is probably a reading that was retroactively forced on the album anyway.

I should admit that I am biased on this question, though.  Pet Sounds was the first Beach Boys album I bought, and I bought it specifically because I was at a CD store that was playing "Sloop John B" on the radio and thought, "I should buy that album."

[Summer_Days]

I'm always saying


Pet Sounds is a perfect album....'Sloop John B' is as part of that perfection as is, say, 'Caroline, No'.

The baroque production style and musical/vocal arrangement fit in with everything else on Pet Sounds; the fact that the lyrics don't relate to those other songs doesn't matter much, in my view.  I tend to think that the idea of the songs of Pet Sounds telling a story or something is probably a reading that was retroactively forced on the album anyway.

Perfectly said, 100% agree.

[Quzi]

(p.s. marijuana is a vegetable).

I always assumed people were insinuating that "vegetable" was code for "marijuana" when saying "Vega-Tables" was inspired by drug use until I came across this quote by Jules Siegal. I can't vouch for its validity, but it definitely sounds like a more plausible source of inspiration.

Marijuana definitely turned me into a vegetable. I was grateful for that. I remember lying on the floor with Brian Wilson and the rest of the Beach Boys marijuana-consumption squad in a profoundly vegetative state laughing about the idea of going out and committing violent acts. "Ma-a-a-n, how could a vegetable be violent?" mused Michael Vosse. You've got to try to hear that old hippie doper drawl there. Now, imagine more loud giggles and different utterly stoned takes on being a vegetable, eventually inspiring the Vega-Tables song in Smile!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Not again.

Quite.

Musically it fits in perfectly. Lyrically, it's about loss of innocence, so again, it fits in perfectly.

[D Cunningham]

Sloop John B is fine on PS.  I would remove Wouldn't It Be Nice.  It is too screamingly bright.

And I would remove Good Vibrations from Smile.

 

[Summertime Blooz]

Pet Sounds is my favorite album ever, but I do think it would be more cohesive without Sloop John B. Maybe it's just because that song's never rated that highly with me (not sure why). Also, it's always nagged at me that the title for "Let's Go Away For Awhile"could be viewed as tongue-in-cheek evidence that it was intended to close out Side 1. Get it? Let's Go Away For Awhile? Anyway, I feel like Trombone Dixie would have fit in great on Side 1 as the third track, furthering the album's cinematic scope, but maybe the play-it-safe side of Brian thought 3 instrumentals would be overkill.

[RangeRoverA1]

I'm always saying

To this exact question, me too. If Sloop John B had been replaced with or featured originally another song, Pet Sounds would be incomplete & lose some of its charm. Because SJB as done by The BBs is one of the most beautiful recordings in history of music. At the same time, I really like "The Little Girl I Once Knew" which was constantly suggested in place of the subject. I think it'd fit just fine. Somewhen in an alternate universe.

[filledeplage]

I've heard from so many folks (including ol' Bruce) that Sloop John B sticks out like a sore thumb on Pet Sounds and nearly kills the flow of the album. Many of these people state that it would've fit much better on Summer Days, and some even note that TLGIOK would've been a better fit to close side 1. Personally I think that's absolute poppycock. Though it is a cover, I think Sloop fits like a glove on PS and is the perfect closer to the first side. It's lush, melancholy and nostalgic in a similar manner to That's Not Me or even Caroline, No to a degree. It would've been downright jarring to include on SDSM in my opinion, as would the bouncy TLGIOK on PS. The way it builds up in momentum until the fade-out into the end of the side has always been a bit of a highlight on the LP for me, not to mention the meticulous instrumentation characteristic of the record.
I wasn't able to find a topic dedicated to this debate, so I'd love to hear what you all think.

Sloop is a sparklingly cool song.  Retrospectively, it might have been more "thematic" on Summer Days.  And, I think of Pet Sounds, more or less, as an introspective work, and a place to sort of self-reflect, in a time when people were becoming more serious, and less hedonistic, with serious stuff emerging, such as Vietnam, and folk singers such as The Kingston Trio and who helped popularize that style, using PBS, of all places. (public broadcasting for educational purposes .) Jardine brought it to the table.  

I think it fits perfectly, and respect Johnston's point of view, since he was there, and I'm just a bystander.  But, the intensity of the album required some "lightness" such as Sloop and Wouldn't it Be Nice for some pep.  It would otherwise might have been characterized as "brooding melancholy."  And, I also think that Good Vibrations needed its' own space, before being LP'd.  I think it might have overpowered Pet Sounds, which is masterfully balanced out with the "bounce" of Sloop and WIBN.  

"I feel so break-up, I wanna go home!"  

(the song's history is cool to check out, too!)  

[Jason]

I wouldn't touch Pet Sounds. It's fine the way it is. I think Brian would agree since Sloop John B was on his tracklist for the album.

[Summer_Days]

I would remove Wouldn't It Be Nice.  It is too screamingly bright.

 

 

[EgoHanger1966]

(p.s. marijuana is a vegetable).

I always assumed people were insinuating that "vegetable" was code for "marijuana" when saying "Vega-Tables" was inspired by drug use until I came across this quote by Jules Siegal. I can't vouch for its validity, but it definitely sounds like a more plausible source of inspiration.

Marijuana definitely turned me into a vegetable. I was grateful for that. I remember lying on the floor with Brian Wilson and the rest of the Beach Boys marijuana-consumption squad in a profoundly vegetative state laughing about the idea of going out and committing violent acts. "Ma-a-a-n, how could a vegetable be violent?" mused Michael Vosse. You've got to try to hear that old hippie doper drawl there. Now, imagine more loud giggles and different utterly stoned takes on being a vegetable, eventually inspiring the Vega-Tables song in Smile!

Welllp, "Vega-Tables" makes infinitely more sense to me now, especially in the context of the SMiLE "album". He was so high he threw away the candy bar and ate the wrapper, and then laughed hysterically. 

Now, where's that picture of Brian and Carl all red-eyed at the piano when you NEED it?

[Kurosawa]

I wouldn't change the first note of Pet Sounds. Sloop stays.

[alf wiedersehen]

(p.s. marijuana is a vegetable).

I always assumed people were insinuating that "vegetable" was code for "marijuana" when saying "Vega-Tables" was inspired by drug use until I came across this quote by Jules Siegal. I can't vouch for its validity, but it definitely sounds like a more plausible source of inspiration.

Marijuana definitely turned me into a vegetable. I was grateful for that. I remember lying on the floor with Brian Wilson and the rest of the Beach Boys marijuana-consumption squad in a profoundly vegetative state laughing about the idea of going out and committing violent acts. "Ma-a-a-n, how could a vegetable be violent?" mused Michael Vosse. You've got to try to hear that old hippie doper drawl there. Now, imagine more loud giggles and different utterly stoned takes on being a vegetable, eventually inspiring the Vega-Tables song in Smile!

Welllp, "Vega-Tables" makes infinitely more sense to me now, especially in the context of the SMiLE "album". He was so high he threw away the candy bar and ate the wrapper, and then laughed hysterically. 

Now, where's that picture of Brian and Carl all red-eyed at the piano when you NEED it?

Also explains the coughing.

[Rocky Raccoon]

I think it belongs just fine.  And with the track order, I think it fits perfectly after "Let's Go Away for Awhile."

[Gohi]

I would remove Wouldn't It Be Nice.  It is too screamingly bright.

 

 

Yes let's remove one of the greatest opening tracks in rock history, thank you.

[Summer_Days]

I would remove Wouldn't It Be Nice.  It is too screamingly bright.

 

 

Yes let's remove one of the greatest opening tracks in rock history, thank you.

That was my reaction, times 500. WIBN is my all-time favorite song.

[chrs_mrgn]

The problem with Bruce's "should have been on Summer Days" comment is the first "Sloop" session took place a week after that album came out. I guess it's easy to forget that in the flurry of sessions etc. back then, though.

I can't imagine Summer Days with "Sloop John B" on it, but I especially can't imagine Pet Sounds without it. People's assertion that Pet Sounds was meant to be some kind of concept album with a story and "Sloop John B" disrupts that is their own false perception. The same logic should dictate that songs like "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" and "Pet Sounds" don't belong either, yet no one complains about them because they weren't singles that big bad Capitol (and Mike, no doubt) could force Lord Brian to put on his rebellious avant-garde concept album (p.s. marijuana is a vegetable).

Maybe there were talks of doing a cover closer to Summer Days and that's what Bruce is referring to?

[Amazing Larry]

(p.s. marijuana is a vegetable).

I always assumed people were insinuating that "vegetable" was code for "marijuana" when saying "Vega-Tables" was inspired by drug use until I came across this quote by Jules Siegal. I can't vouch for its validity, but it definitely sounds like a more plausible source of inspiration.

Marijuana definitely turned me into a vegetable. I was grateful for that. I remember lying on the floor with Brian Wilson and the rest of the Beach Boys marijuana-consumption squad in a profoundly vegetative state laughing about the idea of going out and committing violent acts. "Ma-a-a-n, how could a vegetable be violent?" mused Michael Vosse. You've got to try to hear that old hippie doper drawl there. Now, imagine more loud giggles and different utterly stoned takes on being a vegetable, eventually inspiring the Vega-Tables song in Smile!

Welllp, "Vega-Tables" makes infinitely more sense to me now, especially in the context of the SMiLE "album". He was so high he threw away the candy bar and ate the wrapper, and then laughed hysterically. 

Now, where's that picture of Brian and Carl all red-eyed at the piano when you NEED it?

Also explains the coughing.

And I'm pretty sure someone says "Piece of sh*t, hold in your hit."

[Quzi]

The sound of pouring in the Smiley version = Carl changing the bong water