Van Dyke Parks left, came back, and left again. Truth or Fiction?

[guitarfool2002]

At the risk of  , the notion that Brian toiled away on these amazing tracks while the band were off touring, and that what they came back to was a huge - and unpleasant - surprise is largely a myth. Check this out (gigs in yellow):

That was not my notion in the post, and I never subscribed to the "Brian toiling away" version of the story: what I was saying was there were people perhaps spending more personal time with Brian during the same timeline as was posted than the other Beach Boys, and one of those people was Michael Vosse. There are things he talked about, experienced, and lived with Brian which the other Beach Boys were not involved with. The fact that the Beach Boys were out touring is a minor part of the story, worth noting, but it was not the basis of what I was trying to say.

Again, I think it is worth noting that Van Dyke, Anderle, and Vosse had a different set of shared experiences with Brian than Mike, Al, Carl, and Dennis. Within the Beach Boys group, as others noted, Carl (especially) and Dennis (to a lesser degree) were probably even more close to the creative scene at that time than Mike or Al, by nature of the family bond. So I'd argue there were both divisions and sub-divisions at work during this time, within the same core groups.

[guitarfool2002]

So if there's "two camps", there may have been more Beach Boys in the non-Beach Boys camp than in the Beach Boys camp. I think saying "The Beach Boys" didn't support or understand Smile is just a convenient way to not have to name names. It was a far more complex situation than two camps.

Consider this:



Is it worth noting that a recent discussion about the band's inner politics well into the 70's revealed a similar split within the band, where it was one faction versus another among band members?

I think saying "The Beach Boys" supported or didn't support anything is not possible anyway, because there did not seem to be much of a consensus among all the band members at any given time from 1966 onward.

[?]

Carl also seemed at least semi-supportive, doing his usual right hand man thing on the sessions when he was in town.

On the night the recorded version of BWPS was released, VDP made an appearance on the blueboard and when someone asked him about Carl, Van Dyke replied that Carl had told him he loved Smile.  So he certainly remembers Carl being supportive.

[Cam Mott]

That's what I'm saying, it's more nuanced than somebody said/thought they was supportive and somebody thought/said they weren't. They all were and weren't at the same time, including Brian. Still, they all [BBs and Posse] were much more supportive than not even after Brian was much less supportive than was.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Going to check something out... [sfx - retreating footsteps, closing door]

Damn, I'm good. In his seminal piece, Jules Seigel says "Van Dyke Parks had left and come back and would leave again", and the context places that in early 1967.

So...is the answer that Van Dyke left and returned so many times that we cannot pintpoint an exact exit date for sure? I've re-read some interviews with Van Dyke and he says the last session he was present for was "Barnyard". But that doesn't add up because Van Dyke is still listed as musician on AFM sheets in January. This also defies his claim that he was gone by the time "The Elements" were happening because he sensed things were going wrong or something. Is he just remembering one fo the times he left and forgetting that he returned and worked some more? I'm confused...

[Bicyclerider]

The Posse seems to agree that Van Dyke left the project because of problems between VDP and BW and that it happened late, around February. VDP seems to blame it on his presumption/premonition that there was trouble ahead based on Mike's asking about a lyric and also his perception of family/group dynamics.

He seems to me to be all over the place as to date but he also has suggested it was late, presumably after his last attended session in February. He also has tied his departure to the lawsuit so I'm saying VDP is saying when he says he left-left over the lyric question and puts it at the time of the lawsuit he is also putting both in late February and not in December. You know, as best I can make of it.

Going to check something out... [sfx - retreating footsteps, closing door]

Damn, I'm good. In his seminal piece, Jules Seigel says "Van Dyke Parks had left and come back and would leave again", and the context places that in early 1967.

Van Dyke has never said he left twice, although others have, and I believe there's an explanation for this.  Van dyke mentioned leaving around the time of Fire - although actually it's probably a week later after the Cabinessence vocal session and lyrics snafu.  This is when Van Dyke considers himself leaving, for good.  And starting work on his own album in January/February, signing the contract in January as Cam points out.

But we know he's back for sessions in February AND March ("intro to Heroes" session).  Then he's out of the picture.  To the Vosse posse, he's left twice, but to Van, he was never back, at least not like before.  Van sees his lyrics and probably the entire Smile project falling victim to familial squabbles and doesn't want to be in the middle of that.  And wants to do his own project, not be subjected to Brian's increasingly erratic behavior, etc.  But Brian is now solely focused on getting the single Heroes out and needs Van dyke's help, so Van Dyke is back as a session musician and "helper" to try and salvage something, namely a potential hit Beach Boys single which would benefit Van greatly at this time, out of all his work for the project.  When the Heroes sessions grind to a halt in March he's gone.

So he leaves once as song writing collaborator/partner, once as session musician/facilitator.

[guitarfool2002]

I understand Van Dyke points to the family dynamic and the tension created by that as one of the main reasons, but factoring in his solo album project, I think it may have been a clash of two strong musical personalities to blame as well.

I'm one to look at the Vosse article, the Seigel article, and the Williams/Anderle article as my first line of reference for a lot of these issues. Reading into the Vosse article, there is the notion that Van Dyke could get frustrated by Brian bossing him around, and that would seem to be in the boss-employee role which already has tension naturally built in. Brian did, naturally, "hire" Van Dyke, yet the way they were working they would seem to be musical brothers, and yet the relationship would dictate Brian would have to call the shots at the end of the day and on the spot as well since it was his album, his project, and his name carrying it with a number one record just under his belt.

Some session tapes reveal Van Dyke was much more involved in the music and the creation of the music than many assumed for years, placing him in the lyricist role and bypassing his input on the sessions and the music itself. Vosse's words suggest the two of the in the studio was where the magic happened, as they both had an energy which fueled the way the music was being made and Vosse seems to be one of those who enjoyed being a witness to this creative energy as it happened. Yet it was his article that specifically says Van Dyke eventually got tired of Brian bossing him around.

I compare it to George Harrison just before work on Let It Be started. He had just been to America, had hung out and worked with some of the most influential musicians in America, and those people were very receptive to George *as a musician* and wanted his input and ideas, along with hanging out in a social way and talking music and whatnot. Then he returns to work with his own band, and there was Paul McCartney telling him when to play guitar in a bandleader role, after he just spent time with Dylan, The Band, etc, and was his own person. George had to see the situation from outside the bubble, and when he went back into the bubble he had a different attitude and stood on his own. Of course it led to conflicts including the blow-up where George left the sessions as cameras rolled.

So Van Dyke had been working with Brian in a role where Brian called the shots, then he gets a deal on a full album and having worked with the session musicians under Brian's wing, he now hired some of those very same musicians in the very same studios to record his music where he had ultimate say on the results. He was in charge, and there was no family dynamic, no boss-employee dynamic, and his name would be on the album cover.

As much as the family dynamic may have been a factor, Van Dyke's wanting to be his own boss may factor in as well.

[Bicyclerider]

As I mentioned and you elaborate on, Brian's erratic behavior and Van Dyke's position as employee being subject to Brian's whims was definitely a factor in his leaving.  Van Dyke seems not have liked Brian's mind games as in Smile Era Party and some of the other "party" tapes, Brian at a whim deciding everyone needs to get into the pool, or we need to open up a billiards store that's open 24 hours, or the vibrations aren't right for a session and cancelling the session from his car outside the studio, those things I'm sure wore on Van Dyke.  The posse participants all said that when you were with Brian, you were on Brian's trip, whether you liked it or not.

[guitarfool2002]

Sorry, posted to the wrong thread...my bad.