Most overrated and underrated BB's Albums

[Domino]

Overrated: Holland
Underrated: 15 Big Ones (Brian is all over the album, and that's a good thing)

[Dave Modny]

Considering that Do It Again, I Can Hear Music, Bluebirds, Be With Me, All I Want To Do, Nearest, I Went To Sleep, Cottonfields, and Never Learn Not To Love are all new recordings and that Time To Get Alone is a new track if not song, the rep this LP gets is confusing. Most of it was done together over the second half of 1968.

I would agree. Take away some of the tracks of Cabinessence (and the blueprint of TTGA, if you will), as well as the first layer of Prayer vocals, and the rest of the album was done within a 6 month period (and more like less than three months for the bulk of it). Contrast that with the tracks on Sunflower, where sessions span a solid 18 months (not including the Water chant), and where the resulting record was literally resubmitted and reconfigured, twice, and then added upon recording-wise into what we now know and love. Or, perhaps more appropriately, Surf''s Up, where sessions span 12 months and *also* include the "dredging up" of parts of a few earlier tracks (Feet, SU). I also hear it sometimes suggested that it would've been great if SPS or OMR were included on 20/20, while others point out the inclusion of I Went to Sleep...which was started at literally the exact same time (and at the same time as the first lead single, DIA). And the other lead single...Bluebirds...it was also started only 2-4 *weeks* before the bulk of the rest of the album sessions.

Thus, personally speaking again, I think it's primarily the inclusion of the two Smile tracks that create that perception today, when in truth, recording-wise again, the record really wasn't any more "abnormal," drawn-out or patched than what came immediately after. As noted earlier, back in the day, I also think the record was rated a lot higher when people didn't know about, or give a rat's ass as to the origins or time-frame of those two Smile tracks, or in which various studios those other tracks were recorded. In that regard, if one views it simply as a collection of good songs, I think it's pretty darned strong in terms of its best stuff. I mean, Is it really any more stylistically varied than something like SU? Personally, I think side two flows like butter...and flows as good as any other BBs LP. But that's just me.

[Dudd]

Overrated - Holland
Underrated - Sunflower 

[phirnis]

How is an album like Love You "overrated" when even some of the most hardcore fans on BB message boards such as Smiley Smile don't like it? That record's actual fan base is still incredibly small as it's not even a particular fave among rock critics. I don't get it.

I think there's just as many critics that think of it as a near-masterpiece (e.g. Christgau..."A" rating, etc). Or..as it says in Wiki: "positively received by critics both then and today."

That, and I think it's sort of become the de facto point, by most, in terms of stating: "What's the last great BBs album?" or "So-and-so is their best album since Love You."


It may be controversial, but I still think it's pretty highly regarded.

All the better.

But it's still pretty much a cult classic and it won't make the Rolling Stone top 100 anytime soon. Somehow it seems to rub some people the wrong way, which I've always attributed to the album being as non-"classic rock" as it gets, i.e. no "deep" lyrics, no "relevant" topics, no "real" instrumentation (by rock standards anyway), no impeccable performances... the list goes on. Some have compared it to punk, maybe in an attempt to make it seem as cool to outsiders as they personally feel it is.

I could still be wrong with all these assumptions, of course, they're just a way of trying to make sense.

Well, other than Pet Sounds, I don't think *any* Beach Boys album would make the RS Top 100 albums of all time. That really shouldn't be the benchmark for whether some think a BBs album is overrated or not. And, FWIW, RS themselves gave "Love You" a pretty strong positive review when it came out in 1977 (while acknowledging that it still had a few cringe-worthy moments). As they stated: "The Beach Boys Love You is a truly wonderful album, and it is Brian's show from beginning to end."

Furthermore, the fact that it is a "cult classic" only heightens the perception that many people think it's a masterpiece or near-masterpiece. In fact, I can't think of any critic-of-name, offhand, that's ever given the album a truly negative review. Not saying there aren't any in existence, but again, the album seems to be pretty highly regarded overall (e.g. 4 stars on AMG) with many of the critical and even fan masses, while obviously polarizing a good deal of folks as well.



Hence, the claims of "overrated" by some.

Good points. What fascinates me is that some fans seem to be quite passionate about expressing their dislike for this record. I respect everyone's personal reaction to the music, it's all perfectly valid... and I still find it all quite intriguing. Very few fans seem to be indifferent about Love You, it seems to elicit a strong reaction from both admirers and the ones who dislike it. Sunflower for example doesn't seem to do the same thing. So yes, I agree it's a very polarizing record for sure.

[Paulos]

Over - Wild Honey
Under - Smiley Smile

[Micha]

Seems like the album that pops up most in this thread as underrated is MIU.

[EgoHanger1966]

...a Brian Friends leftover...

Urgh, I hate when people call "I Went To Sleep" a Friends leftover. It wasn't recorded until the Friends sessions were over!

[sockittome]

Seems like the album that pops up most in this thread as underrated is MIU.

With Smileysmile a close second.  How can that be, with this site being named after it? 

Oh, wait....it's listed as overrated just about as many times......



Interesting.......

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I gotta applaud Bluesno1fann for starting this thread.  Some very interesting answers here.  I don't think I saw any two the same, and that shows that there really is no majority consensus.  And that makes sense, considering that each of our answers are based on how we feel about said albums.  Just after I made my post I realized that I had listed my least and most favorite BBs albums, and I'm sure a number of others did the same. 

I also realized that if this thread were based on the general public's reception of the albums, it would've been a very short thread.  Every answer would have been:

Overrated: None

Underrated: All of 'em!

John and Jane Q. Public generally don't know from Jack when it comes to BBs albums.  All they know is that the group came out with some really cool radio hits over the years.  I guess that's why there are so many best of's. 

I disagree. Although the answers vary, I think that some albums are more highly thought of in general on this board than others. Over all, Today is thought more highly than SDSN, Sunflower over Surfs Up, LALA positive and MIU negative. I don't agree with that always, but it seems to be more general opinion. The general view of 80s and 90s is low. Etc

[bluesno1fann]

I gotta applaud Bluesno1fann for starting this thread.  Some very interesting answers here.  I don't think I saw any two the same, and that shows that there really is no majority consensus.  And that makes sense, considering that each of our answers are based on how we feel about said albums.  Just after I made my post I realized that I had listed my least and most favorite BBs albums, and I'm sure a number of others did the same. 

I also realized that if this thread were based on the general public's reception of the albums, it would've been a very short thread.  Every answer would have been:

Overrated: None

Underrated: All of 'em!

John and Jane Q. Public generally don't know from Jack when it comes to BBs albums.  All they know is that the group came out with some really cool radio hits over the years.  I guess that's why there are so many best of's. 

I disagree. Although the answers vary, I think that some albums are more highly thought of in general on this board than others. Over all, Today is thought more highly than SDSN, Sunflower over Surfs Up, LALA positive and MIU negative. I don't agree with that always, but it seems to be more general opinion. The general view of 80s and 90s is low. Etc

That can be true. There definitely is a pattern. Albums such as MIU and 20/20 are constantly "underrated", while albums such as Love You and Holland are constantly "overrated". It's a shame, i was trying to expect the unexpected. But i guess that's just people's personal opinion.

[Don Malcolm]

The rankings from the "rate the album" threads:

Album   Avg
Pet Sounds   4.89
Today   4.65
Sunflower   4.61
Friends   4.39
Summer Days   4.34
All Summer Long   4.31
Wild Honey   4.21
Love You   4.21
Holland   4.21
Surf's Up   4.10
Surfer Girl   4.04
20/20   4.01
Smiley Smile    3.94
TWGMTR   3.91
Shut Down Vol. 2   3.68
CATP     3.49
SUSA   3.47
Little Douce Coupe   3.37
Stack'o'Tracks   3.36
BB Party   3.35
LA   3.12
Safari   2.80
MIU   2.80
BB85   2.51
15 Big Ones   2.47
KTSA    2.43
Stll Cruisin'   2.32
SIP   1.38

Sorry, still don't know how to get the pre or table features to work. The ones in bold have the most "overated" votes; the ones in italic have the most "underrated" votes; the ones that are underlined are the ones with votes in both categories.

Not too many surprises: the albums in the second tier of good rankings are overrated, and the albums in the second tier of less-than-good rankings are underrated. We haven't got enough votes here for it to be particularly significant yet; the original polls had a minimum of 60 participants, and in many cases more than a hundred.

Looking at the original ranking list, the "empirical" answer for what album is the most overrated is quite probably Friends. It's a good record; it's enjoyable, quirky and (mostly) laid back; and I like it just fine; but it just isn't the fourth best BB record. I can think of a number of reasons why the vote got bumped up in the way that it did, but I don't want to dwell on any of that now, because we don't have anything close to the level of data that would support any kind of encompassing theories. No question that the board has its particular quirks, and this is one of 'em.

[rab2591]

Overrated: Sunflower.

It has some of their best songs, and some of their most mediocre songs. I'd still rank it up there close to Pet Sounds, Today, and Smile - but I've heard, too many times on this board, that it's better than Pet Sounds....I just can't agree.

Underrated: MIU

The vocals are great, some of the songs are brilliant. I can see why people think it's bad, but it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

I waited years before buying this album all because it has been caste as a rotten record. It's actually got some great moments that any fan should hear.
______

In response to Friends being overrated: Friends has got some of Brian's most creative songwriting, some of Dennis' most creative songwriting. It's 4th in our ranking because as an album, it's that good.

Are there any songs on it that regularly make the compilation records? No. But as a whole it truly stands out as one of the most cohesive and creative Beach Boy albums released. So to me, it's no surprise that it's 4th on the rank the albums list.

[Kurosawa]

I don't think any of their albums are overrated, but I do think LA Light Album is much better than people think.

[chrs_mrgn]

I have to change mine.

Overrated: Wild Honey
Underrated: Carl and The Passions

[bluesno1fann]

I don't think any of their albums are overrated, but I do think LA Light Album is much better than people think.

So True!

[ThyRavenAscend]

Most over-rated: Surf's Up
Most under-rated: M.I.U.

[ThyRavenAscend]

Seems like the album that pops up most in this thread as underrated is MIU.

I think I'd take "M.I.U." over "Holland" or "Love You"...anyone else with me?

[Summer_Days]

I think I'd take "M.I.U." over "Holland" or "Love You"...anyone else with me?

No.

 

[chrs_mrgn]

Seems like the album that pops up most in this thread as underrated is MIU.

I think I'd take "M.I.U." over "Holland" or "Love You"...anyone else with me?

No way.  Some tracks on Holland are a snoozefest but MIU is pretty far down on the scale for me personally.

[Don Malcolm]

In response to Friends being overrated: Friends has got some of Brian's most creative songwriting, some of Dennis' most creative songwriting. It's 4th in our ranking because as an album, it's that good.

Are there any songs on it that regularly make the compilation records? No. But as a whole it truly stands out as one of the most cohesive and creative Beach Boy albums released. So to me, it's no surprise that it's 4th on the rank the albums list.

As far as I'm concerned, that's an excellent articulation of how the LP has come to be overrated. It's the "gestalt theory of the LP" coming into play, and it's akin to a particular kind of consensus that took hold after a long series of enabling discussions. What's most interesting about this is that some explain Friends as being the 60s version of Love You...Brian's organ/piano base for most of the Friends material is much less disruptive/divisive than the farting synths and the harsh voices on Love You, so its smoothness (which in more than one instance is little more than a kind of quirky blandness) works in its favor.

Now please remember that I do like the LP, I'd grade it a 3.5/5 (and probably 7.5/10). And I admit to being biased wrt to hearing more uptempo materials, which is one reason why I prefer Wild Honey to Friends. I think it's certainly in the top ten, and not far off the top five (it's a crowded, closely contested field for the 6-10 slots). But I think the "gestalt" effect has had a hand in elevating Friends to a position that has come to be more received wisdom than actual fact.  (Clearly, YMMV!!)

Seems like the album that pops up most in this thread as underrated is MIU.

I think I'd take "M.I.U." over "Holland" or "Love You"...anyone else with me?

Well, eight folks (out of 101 voting) gave MIU a 5/5, and 57% of respondents gave Holland 4/5 or lower, so it's theoretically possible...OTOH, 39% of participants gave MIU a 2/5 or lower, as opposed to 7% for Love You and under 3% for Holland.

[job]

Overrated:  Wild Honey

Underrated:  LA Light

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Over - Surfs Up

Under - MIU or Surfer Girl (should be hailed as 1st BW masterpiece)

[DonnyL]

Across the board (hardcore fans, rock critics, general public):

Overrated: SMILE. As an album or complete collection, Smile just doesn't make it for me ... I like the individual songs, but feel they work better as originally released -- spread out among the later LPs. And I love Smiley. As an album, it just doesn't flow or work in my opinion.

Underrated: MIU. I bought MIU and Love You on my 13th birthday, and enjoyed both of them equally. As the years go on, I've had a love/hate relationship with the album ("This isn't cool! I hate it! Only 'My Diane' is any good!") ... but I've come to the conclusion that the album is full of really good pop songs, and works in a sort of late '70s/end of summer kind of way. I always enjoy listening to it whenever I put it on. Not saying it's a masterpiece, but it has merit and doesn't deserve it's status ... which I think is primarily related to most of the lyrical content.

[Mikie]

No way.  Some tracks on Holland are a snoozefest but MIU is pretty far down on the scale for me personally.

That's an outdated monicker you have there.  Brian Wilson is a L.A. Dodger now.

[chrs_mrgn]

No way.  Some tracks on Holland are a snoozefest but MIU is pretty far down on the scale for me personally.

That's an outdated monicker you have there.  Brian Wilson is a L.A. Dodger now.

I know! I never thought he would play again. Updated.