Syria?

[Bean Bag]

If I were Prez...I'd be manipulating both sides, to get what's best for my country.  Which may or may not be anything.  I suspect it would be my country's safety and security, the steady flow of food, fuel and resources and commerce from the region (if applicable), and to assist any allies, if needed.

Other than that, they can have their civil war.

The use of chemical weapons is a violation of the world's "play nice" rules, so it slightly complicates things.  It may risk our credibility (if any agreements suggest we intervene), otherwise who's gonna stop'em?

If force is required from my country -- I prefer "excessive use of."  I like to be done as soon as possible -- and to provide a sure, ringing tone of "do not f-cks with me and mine!" That is, if anyone is f-cksing with me and mine, of course.  This overwhelming use of force (whenever force is required) helps ensure that my country will have an even bigger voice next time -- thus likely avoiding the need to even use ANY force.

This Administration, apparently, thinks much differently...
Kerry: We're Talking About An "Unbelievably Small" Effort In Syria
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/09/09/kerry_were_talking_about_an_unbelievably_small_effort_in_syria.html

[Mike's Beard]

I think it's weird that chemical weapons are (rightly) viewed as bad but bombing cities into dust is considered OK. I mean, dead is dead.

[pixletwin]

Dead is dead, true. But I think it has to do with the element of agony involved.

[Heysaboda]

There once was a Vlad named Putin

Who, as Russian ruler, was just put in

Around Siberia he'd lurk

While being a jerk

And in Syria, he’ll put his foot in

[drbeachboy]

I think it's weird that chemical weapons are (rightly) viewed as bad but bombing cities into dust is considered OK. I mean, dead is dead.

If you are condemning them for using gas/chemical weapons, you can't use it against them when you retaliate. Bombs do a much better job on honing in on specific sites. At lease you can be reasonably sure of hitting the proper target.

Hopefully, this all gets cleared up before bombing even becomes an option.

[Heysaboda]

Kerry: We're Talking About An "Unbelievably Small" Effort In Syria

I am betting that this gets a tasty send up by SNL!  Except they need John Cleese to play Kerry!

[Bean Bag]

Yeah, I hear ya!

You know... there are some people (I suppose they would be labeled "on the right" to friends of Obama) who are saying this is all "by design."  Obama is "by design" using instances like Syria to de-value, or shrink America's stature around the world.  To cut us down here at home, as well.  Shrink us.  Economically, politically.  It's not fair that we're a "super-power."

I say... YES.  Absolutely.  It's either that or the man is loser, dumby-moron.  Which is silly.  This is what the American Left believes... this is what they yell and scream at their rallies.  They don't like a big tuff America.  They don't like business.  They don't like people getting rich.  They have their reasons... I know... but the results, guys.  The results.

I mean, 60 million unemployed?  "Unbelievabley small" attacks?  This stuff is easy to fix.  It's easy to make this country rock n' roll.  Cut regulation, taxes, control the border, stop wasting trillions, make this place "The Place" to do business.

Obama's Successful Foreign Failure
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323595004579062811443943666.html

Collapse of American Influence Recalls Disintegration of Soviet Union, Fall of France
http://www.nysun.com/foreign/collapse-of-american-power-recalls-dis/88400/

[Rocky Raccoon]

Yeah, I hear ya!

You know... there are some people (I suppose they would be labeled "on the right" to friends of Obama) who are saying this is all "by design."  Obama is "by design" using instances like Syria to de-value, or shrink America's stature around the world.  To cut us down here at home, as well.  Shrink us.  Economically, politically.  It's not fair that we're a "super-power."

I say... YES.  Absolutely.  It's either that or the man is loser, dumby-moron.  Which is silly.  This is what the American Left believes... this is what they yell and scream at their rallies.  They don't like a big tuff America.  They don't like business.  They don't like people getting rich.  They have their reasons... I know... but the results, guys.  The results.

I mean, 60 million unemployed?  "Unbelievabley small" attacks?  This stuff is easy to fix.  It's easy to make this country rock n' roll.  Cut regulation, taxes, control the border, stop wasting trillions, make this place "The Place" to do business.

So if I vote you for President next election, will you fix all of these things?  You seem to think it's easy enough.

[Heysaboda]

Syria vows to give up chemical weapons, no deal yet at U.N.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-sees-possible-breakthrough-syria-weapons-proposal-010203859.html

Uh.............. these would be the ones that Assad just denied he had LOL

[pixletwin]

Did he deny having them?i]them? I only recall that he denied having used them.

[Bean Bag]

Yeah, I hear ya!

You know... there are some people (I suppose they would be labeled "on the right" to friends of Obama) who are saying this is all "by design."  Obama is "by design" using instances like Syria to de-value, or shrink America's stature around the world.  To cut us down here at home, as well.  Shrink us.  Economically, politically.  It's not fair that we're a "super-power."

I say... YES.  Absolutely.  It's either that or the man is loser, dumby-moron.  Which is silly.  This is what the American Left believes... this is what they yell and scream at their rallies.  They don't like a big tuff America.  They don't like business.  They don't like people getting rich.  They have their reasons... I know... but the results, guys.  The results.

I mean, 60 million unemployed?  "Unbelievabley small" attacks?  This stuff is easy to fix.  It's easy to make this country rock n' roll.  Cut regulation, taxes, control the border, stop wasting trillions, make this place "The Place" to do business.

So if I vote you for President next election, will you fix all of these things?  You seem to think it's easy enough.

I guarantee it.

[Rocky Raccoon]

This is good news.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/world/middleeast/syrian-chemical-arsenal.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Pacific Coast]

Yeah, I hear ya!

You know... there are some people (I suppose they would be labeled "on the right" to friends of Obama) who are saying this is all "by design."  Obama is "by design" using instances like Syria to de-value, or shrink America's stature around the world.  To cut us down here at home, as well.  Shrink us.  Economically, politically.  It's not fair that we're a "super-power."

I say... YES.  Absolutely.  It's either that or the man is loser, dumby-moron.  Which is silly.  This is what the American Left believes... this is what they yell and scream at their rallies.  They don't like a big tuff America.  They don't like business.  They don't like people getting rich.  They have their reasons... I know... but the results, guys.  The results.

I mean, 60 million unemployed?  "Unbelievabley small" attacks?  This stuff is easy to fix.  It's easy to make this country rock n' roll.  Cut regulation, taxes, control the border, stop wasting trillions, make this place "The Place" to do business.

So if I vote you for President next election, will you fix all of these things?  You seem to think it's easy enough.

I guarantee it.

The solution isn't more busy-ness, but less.

Until the Protestants made work a virtue and capitalists promoted the growth of the financial sector for its own sake as signs of a healthy economy, work was considered a curse, and people only did what needed to be done for material security. Work in the modern world is no longer authentic work. The point of the industrial revolution was to free people of the labor necessary to produce the necessities of life so that people could enjoy more leisure (and, presumably, the rewards of leisure, like artistic and intellectual achievement). Unfortunately, that result has not come to fruition, and more of us are wage slaves now and landless peasants who are in worse conditions than our ancestors, though we wouldn't admit it because we are conditioned to believe that our technology, our gaudy toys, and our late appearance in time makes us the most evolved of the digestive tracts that have appeared on the face of the Earth rather than the primitive tribe of the Future.

[Bean Bag]

That's a very "religious" opinion Prabhuji.     I think it has some merit.  The ole' "are we any happy nowadays with our electronic gizmos and instant messaging?  The Google and the rest?"

I've thought it.  I'm one who loves old movies and music, precisely to remind myself of those simpler times.  But I don't know.  Am I one to pass judgement on our times?  Or on "our place in the digestive tract" as you put it?

I don't know.  There's some amazing things that we've done, collectively, as a society that could only have come about as we've demanded more from ourselves and the world around us.  Technology is an amazing thing.  A curse, yes.

The time with which we live.  And the parents we're given.  Who the flunk knows.  I accept things as they are ...and call bullsh-t on things that have been a disaster.  But I'm not sure being pro-business is a disaster.  I do believe it has contributed to the rise of the human condition (whatever that means).  And the old way... the rulers and the serfs... well, those ways seem to be the rampant alternative, shall we say?

Human instincts travel in both directions --> wanting more ---> and to be ruled.  I prefer to direct these within known parameters... wanting more = work for it.  To be ruled = well, that's your own personal conquest and not to be left to the social planners with diplomas -- nor to the dictators, who differ only slightly regarding their levels of honesty.

[Pacific Coast]

That's a very "religious" opinion Prabhuji.     I think it has some merit.  The ole' "are we any happy nowadays with our electronic gizmos and instant messaging?  The Google and the rest?"

I've thought it.  I'm one who loves old movies and music, precisely to remind myself of those simpler times.  But I don't know.  Am I one to pass judgement on our times?  Or on "our place in the digestive tract" as you put it?

I don't know.  There's some amazing things that we've done, collectively, as a society that could only have come about as we've demanded more from ourselves and the world around us.  Technology is an amazing thing.  A curse, yes.

The time with which we live.  And the parents we're given.  Who the flunk knows.  I accept things as they are ...and call bullsh-t on things that have been a disaster.  But I'm not sure being pro-business is a disaster.  I do believe it has contributed to the rise of the human condition (whatever that means).  And the old way... the rulers and the serfs... well, those ways seem to be the rampant alternative, shall we say?

Human instincts travel in both directions --> wanting more ---> and to be ruled.  I prefer to direct these within known parameters... wanting more = work for it.  To be ruled = well, that's your own personal conquest and not to be left to the social planners with diplomas -- nor to the dictators, who differ only slightly regarding their levels of honesty.

It's not religious so much as it is pessimistic and misanthropic, but (truth be told), that's only a pose and a show. I have great love of humanity and its potential. I'm also aware that history moves in cycles, with each new turn of the spiral bringing new complications to the old problems which are never adequately resolved, and that the life of the species goes through periods of rise and fall, and on each subsequent crest of the wave, come new standard-bearers with boons. This too is a good time, if we know what to do with it.

But, the only way forward is if we look very clearly at where we are and how we arrived in this situation of limitations and possibilities; social traditions and attitudes conditioned through generations of propaganda are not natural law. I sometimes think the real reason Mr. Wilson was depressed for so many years was he had a moment of lucidity that revealed to him that he was a privileged boy because he wrote odes to the internal combustion motor and hymns to spark plugs. A world where speed is the greatest virtue--fast food, fast cars, fast talk--is a very boring float at the shallow end of the pool, whereas some of us prefer to swim in the ocean.

Life now is not so different than rulers and serfs. The percentages and the class stratification of society looks consistent, regardless of whether we look ancient Egypt, the Indian caste, medieval feudalism, or American technopoly. As Aldous Huxley said in his last years (I paraphrase), through a superior knowledge of physiology and the manipulation of unconscious psychology, people will be made to love their slavery.

[Bean Bag]

Yeah somewhat pessimistic.  (I do like the allusion to life being a "spiral."  Something I profess myself.)

The one small point I would make -- is your assumption that the human condition, its traditions and attitudes (be it the result of propaganda, corporate advertising or whatever) are somehow not a part of Natural Law.  There's a battle for our soul's attention, no doubt, but war is natural.  And to be influenced by ads and lies are too.  I accept everything -- none of it outside of What Is Natural.

The reason I bring this up is, I see a danger in this leading to an institutional belief that man's influence is somehow inconsistent with Natural Law and not natural itself.  Leading people to believe man is above Natural Law even?  Religiously and spiritually, there's some distinctions there (made in His image) -- but I don't think any of these assertions attempt to mean that we're thus "unnatural beings."  Certainly not Gods.

And, this also applies to the fruits of our labor, desire and creations.  Plastic is natural.  Burning oil is natch'al.  Hamburgers and Hot Rods are too.  Just as are tyrants and serfs.

Natural is the disease/natural is the cure.

[Pacific Coast]

Yeah somewhat pessimistic.  (I do like the allusion to life being a "spiral."  Something I profess myself.)

The one small point I would make -- is your assumption that the human condition, its traditions and attitudes (be it the result of propaganda, corporate advertising or whatever) are somehow not a part of Natural Law.  There's a battle for our soul's attention, no doubt, but war is natural.  And to be influenced by ads and lies are too.  I accept everything -- none of it outside of What Is Natural.

The reason I bring this up is, I see a danger in this leading to an institutional belief that man's influence is somehow inconsistent with Natural Law and not natural itself.  Leading people to believe man is above Natural Law even?  Religiously and spiritually, there's some distinctions there (made in His image) -- but I don't think any of these assertions attempt to mean that we're thus "unnatural beings."  Certainly not Gods.

And, this also applies to the fruits of our labor, desire and creations.  Plastic is natural.  Burning oil is natch'al.  Hamburgers and Hot Rods are too.  Just as are tyrants and serfs.

Natural is the disease/natural is the cure.

I appreciate your distinction, and I agree with you. It is natural for human animals to be greedy, vengeful, and ignorant. It is also natural that humans are not meant to be merely animals, and that the quest for freedom (which is natural) involves transforming the beast into a beauty. Social conditions will either help or hinder that project.

And, so far as being made in the image of God, may I suggest that this statement has been subject to anthropomorphic solipsism? Rather than thinking of God as a bearded guy in the clouds, or a Queen of Heaven, I suggest that a more useful interpretation is to think of "the image of God" as "the PLAY of Spirit" akin to a "DREAM of Life" or "the Theatre of Creation" or some such metaphor.

[Heysaboda]

That's a very "religious" opinion Prabhuji.     I think it has some merit.  The ole' "are we any happy nowadays with our electronic gizmos and instant messaging?  The Google and the rest?"

I've thought it.  I'm one who loves old movies and music, precisely to remind myself of those simpler times.  But I don't know.  Am I one to pass judgement on our times?  Or on "our place in the digestive tract" as you put it?

I don't know.  There's some amazing things that we've done, collectively, as a society that could only have come about as we've demanded more from ourselves and the world around us.  Technology is an amazing thing.  A curse, yes.

The time with which we live.  And the parents we're given.  Who the flunk knows.  I accept things as they are ...and call bullsh-t on things that have been a disaster.  But I'm not sure being pro-business is a disaster.  I do believe it has contributed to the rise of the human condition (whatever that means).  And the old way... the rulers and the serfs... well, those ways seem to be the rampant alternative, shall we say?

Human instincts travel in both directions --> wanting more ---> and to be ruled.  I prefer to direct these within known parameters... wanting more = work for it.  To be ruled = well, that's your own personal conquest and not to be left to the social planners with diplomas -- nor to the dictators, who differ only slightly regarding their levels of honesty.

It's not religious so much as it is pessimistic and misanthropic, but (truth be told), that's only a pose and a show. I have great love of humanity and its potential. I'm also aware that history moves in cycles, with each new turn of the spiral bringing new complications to the old problems which are never adequately resolved, and that the life of the species goes through periods of rise and fall, and on each subsequent crest of the wave, come new standard-bearers with boons. This too is a good time, if we know what to do with it.

But, the only way forward is if we look very clearly at where we are and how we arrived in this situation of limitations and possibilities; social traditions and attitudes conditioned through generations of propaganda are not natural law. I sometimes think the real reason Mr. Wilson was depressed for so many years was he had a moment of lucidity that revealed to him that he was a privileged boy because he wrote odes to the internal combustion motor and hymns to spark plugs. A world where speed is the greatest virtue--fast food, fast cars, fast talk--is a very boring float at the shallow end of the pool, whereas some of us prefer to swim in the ocean.

Life now is not so different than rulers and serfs. The percentages and the class stratification of society looks consistent, regardless of whether we look ancient Egypt, the Indian caste, medieval feudalism, or American technopoly. As Aldous Huxley said in his last years (I paraphrase), through a superior knowledge of physiology and the manipulation of unconscious psychology, people will be made to love their slavery.

Nicely said!!

[bluesno1fann]

Dead is dead, true. But I think it has to do with the element of agony involved.

True!

[Heysaboda]

Who here feels responsible to feed another man's family while his own family is starving?

Hands? Anyone?

It's a flawed analogy.

The USA is not exactly "starving" now, is it?

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

 

[rab2591]

Who here feels responsible to feed another man's family while his own family is starving?

Hands? Anyone?

It's a flawed analogy.

The USA is not exactly "starving" now, is it?

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

 

Oh god. Please don't use quotes from jesus to support the possible actions of a country that has no qualms with using uranium bullets on foreign soil lol.

[Heysaboda]

Who here feels responsible to feed another man's family while his own family is starving?

Hands? Anyone?

It's a flawed analogy.

The USA is not exactly "starving" now, is it?

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

 

Oh god. Please don't use quotes from jesus to support the possible actions of a country that has no qualms with using uranium bullets on foreign soil lol.

Well, I realize people may cringe at the Jesus quotes but for the record, I am an atheist who frequently quotes Jesus.  Really.  (lol) And it was in the context of "for evil to triumph good men must do nothing."

[rab2591]

Who here feels responsible to feed another man's family while his own family is starving?

Hands? Anyone?

It's a flawed analogy.

The USA is not exactly "starving" now, is it?

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

 

Oh god. Please don't use quotes from jesus to support the possible actions of a country that has no qualms with using uranium bullets on foreign soil lol.

Well, I realize people may cringe at the Jesus quotes but for the record, I am an atheist who frequently quotes Jesus.  Really.  (lol) And it was in the context of "for evil to triumph good men must do nothing."

I'm an atheist as well, but I dislike when people use his quotes to justify military action (Jesus was a pacifist after all).

But anywho, I get your context now. I wish that our leadership was made up of good men who wanted to do the right thing....but since our leadership only serves its own corporate self interests, I'm wary of any foreign action, especially after Iraq and Afghanistan.