You've Lost 'You've Lost That Loving Feelin's's Loving Feelin'

[Smilin Ed H]

Do you imagine him wearing shorts and smiling too?

[Jay]

In the MIC mix of YLTLF that I have heard, the whole bottom end(bass frequency) drops out during the bridge and never returns. The version I have heard is only an mp3 though. I was just curios if it's my copy, or if it happens on the actual MIC set.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I don't like messing around with their songs like this. It's like that 'Special Edition' version of the Exorcist where they've added in all this stuff that wasn't in the original and messed around with the soundtrack and basically just screwed up a classic. Give me the original! And the same goes with the BB's.

As for YLTLF, I don't think the heavy echo on the vocals is the problem, it's that those amazing synths - so prominent on the bootleg - have been blended into the mix and thus lost all their power. That first chorus should hit you like a sledgehammer, but on the MIC version it doesn't. I just cannot even begin to fathom why they would do this...

Because of your screen name, I read everything you say in Bruce's voice. I'm not coming down on you, it actually amuses me.

I'VE WANTED TO TELL YOU FOR SO LONG. ONE MIGHT SAY OH SO LONG.

I'm far better looking.


Oh and just listened to Sail Plane Song - what on earth... WHY??

[chris.metcalfe]

Came in here to say this is my favorite thread title here EVER (BEST EVER, MIKIE). That's all, carry on.

Though there is perhaps an 's' too many...

[Chris Moise]

It's because the technology now exists to do what would have been unthinkable 10 years ago, and they just couldn't help themselves. This "mucking about" was necessary for TSS, but not for this box.

Strongly disagree that it was necessary for TSS.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

It's because the technology now exists to do what would have been unthinkable 10 years ago, and they just couldn't help themselves. This "mucking about" was necessary for TSS, but not for this box.

Strongly disagree that it was necessary for TSS.

Well, it was necessary for the disk 1 album construction, which in turn was necessary for making the thing marketable beyond us diehards.

[Chris Moise]

Linett wasn't involved with the initial release of the Endless Harmony soundtrack.

Strongly prefer the remixes on the first edition of the Endless Harmony CD. The California Girls remix on the revised disc is quite noticeably out of sync where the first edition is fine. For the most part (with exceptions) it seems that with each subsequent release the quality of the stereo remixes goes downhill. That said I haven't heard the Smiley remix yet (I know, I know) which seems to be well received.

[Dunderhead]

It's because the technology now exists to do what would have been unthinkable 10 years ago, and they just couldn't help themselves. This "mucking about" was necessary for TSS, but not for this box. The remixing and effects I'm not so bothered about, but autotuning historic recordings. NO!

I didn't mean for this to be so long, but I this post sort of turned into my review of the box, so here goes:

I have two criticisms of TSS:

1. Poor organization. For such a large boxset with so many disconnected, unique snippets, the organization makes things all the worse by not being straightforward enough. On The Pet Sounds Sessions things were handled so much better, with session highlights as one track, followed by the master take as a second, distinct track. TSS on the other hand is all over the place, with master takes appearing as the final take which closes off several minutes of session highlights. And then you also get instances where My Only Sunshine and False Barnyard are both combined in a single lengthy track. Then there's the annoying way they handled vocals, as you don't get clean a capella tracks like on The Pet Sounds Sessions that include all the existing parts you get these weird gaps in coverage where you have the finished Vegetables fade appearing in mono on disc one, and then the stereo vocals and the stereo track separate. Finally, only further exasperating things, is the sequencing, which I feel should have been chronological by session date throughout rather than based as it is on their speculative disc one track sequencing.

2. Sound. This has, over time since purchasing TSS, noticeably affected my enjoyment of the set. The disc one reconstruction is a mixed bag in terms of the versions of the songs they cooked up, but what makes it more or less a non-starter for me is the indulgence of the compilers in reverb. The lucid minimalism of the original tracks is ruined. I really feel Brian was attempting to use negative space on the Smile material in sometimes radical ways, and you get a major reduction in instrumentation as the project goes on. Given the unfinished nature of a lot of the material the compilers can perhaps be forgiven for trying to fortify the sound, but they take it much too far at times and the excessive, and unpleasant, digital sounding reverb they drench the tracks in just suffocates them. The stereo portions on the following discs suffer less from this, but overall the mixes are just so "hot" that it's genuinely fatiguing to listen to some of them. Disc two, the Heroes sessions is the worst offender, with some of those tracks just feeling unbearably loud and bright to the point where I actually occasionally prefer listening to unmastered bootlegs. The WH Surf's Up is another good example.


MIC isn't so bad as all of that, and to me WIBNTLA in particular sounds very restrained, softer, more mellow etc. On things like Why though there's an instantly fatiguing feeling to the presentation, and I agree with people here that on YLTLF it's almost inexcusably bad. However, saying that, it definitely doesn't totally spoil my enjoyment. I think it's far better than nothing, considering that though the bootleg has its distinct charm in the case of YLTLF, the fact that the quality is so poor, and there are things on it like the left channel cutting out completely at times makes the MIC version undeniably superior despite its flaws.

Again, I'm fairly disappointed by this release. WITBNTA, the alternate Meant For You, Where Is She?, My Love Lives On, Why, the two versions of California Feeling (let's be honest though, the demo is really primarily a novelty...), a couple of upgrades like Sound of Free and YLTLF, the Be With Me Demo, and I guess Barnyard Blues, these are the tracks I consider essential additions to my collection. There's a real "big-whoop" feeling among the other rarities and bonus material. I've had Mona Kana for a long time in relatively good quality on bootleg and it's a mostly uninspired track that I very rarely feel an urge to listen to. The instrumental tracks of DGNTW and TM are nice I suppose, but generally uninteresting, poor choices considering how many better choices anyone who spends 5 seconds thinking about it could probably come up with. There's one "new" stereo selection from Wild Honey, which of the ones to yet appear in stereo is actually the one that's already been circulating for some time. There are completely undesirable, bottom of the barrel selections like Da Doo Ron Ron, some dubious remixes of things like Rock and Roll Music, a slightly improved version of It's Over Now, which is a nice though certainly lesser song I doubt I'll listen to much more than I already do following the upgrade it receives.

I mean, sure, there's decent stuff here, some absolutely essential material appears here for the first time, but given the frustrating issues with the mixing and mastering, the overabundance of material everyone has already purchased several times (like on 50 Big Ones last year...), the poor selections of rarities and the fact that there's maybe a disc worth of material among the six included really worth having, and the fact that the thing is, there's no other way to put it, overpriced, I'm very satisfied that I elected to not purchase it.

I have so many things in my collection of boots that still need to be released, and a lot of it exists only in poor or very poor quality. There are really solid, original songs like California Slide. There are things like the decidedly more enjoyable early version of Santa Ana Winds. In the space allocated on disc 6 for material that already appeared on TSS, you could have probably fit in Brian's Love You demos. The list goes on and on, and that's only things we already have available to us in one form or another on bootlegs. Given what a treat something like Where Is She? and the extended Meant For You are, many of us are left drooling at the thought that the vaults still contain lots of little gems like these. We get all sorts of tantalizing bits, reports from insiders and privileged fans about some of the yet uncirculating material, hints dropped by Mark and Alan themselves about things like a deluxe reprinting of Friends with bonus tracks, I mean, few of us ever really dreamed something like the Wild Honey Surf's Up was out there until it suddenly appeared out of the blue.

Give the fans what they want already, either a definitive rarities box, or a deluxe reprinting of the catalogue with extra discs attached to each entry containing relevant unused material and outtakes, and possibly a contemporary live show here and there. I think it would additionally be a cool, and given how things were executed on TSS and MIC, even a prudent idea to recruit Desper in particular to oversee the mixing and mastering process, at least on the albums he was involved with, given especially the fact that he could then also restore those releases to the HD stereo he's demonstrated in his videos.

[Vega-Table Man]

Strongly prefer the remixes on the first edition of the Endless Harmony CD. The California Girls remix on the revised disc is quite noticeably out of sync where the first edition is fine. For the most part (with exceptions) it seems that with each subsequent release the quality of the stereo remixes goes downhill. That said I haven't heard the Smiley remix yet (I know, I know) which seems to be well received.

I agree 100% on the original EH mixes... I've never heard a better "Kiss Me, Baby." And I'll just add that I have heard the Smiley mix and I'm among its big fans. That was really well done.

[Chris Moise]

Well, it was necessary for the disk 1 album construction, which in turn was necessary for making the thing marketable beyond us diehards.

Not to be a contrarian but I don't buy this idea that anything other than a BWPS recreation would not appeal to the casual fan. The non-hardcore fans did just fine with the 30 minutes of Smile on GV box. Sorry if this is drifting off-topic  

[Dunderhead]

Well, it was necessary for the disk 1 album construction, which in turn was necessary for making the thing marketable beyond us diehards.

Not to be a contrarian but I don't buy this idea that anything other than a BWPS recreation would not appeal to the casual fan. The non-hardcore fans did just fine with the 30 minutes of Smile on GV box. Sorry if this is drifting off-topic  

They should have kept that relegated to the single and double disc limited versions. Those were the economy versions actually designed for the "casual" fans afterall. I never listen to disc one of my TSS, and it could have been better spent both filling in some of the final conspicuous gaps TSS neglected, and giving all the sprawling, fragmented session material more room to breath, and they could have included the fully sequenced version of the album on the vinyl still.

The biggest missed opportunity though, and really what I think would have been not only much cleverer but also more generous to the fans and more in the spirit of Smile itself, is that they didn't just release the multitracks. Even after TSS you still have fans here jumping through hoops doing extractions and fiddling with a lot of painstaking editing to put together their own versions, and given that there was no way TSS would have ever stopped speculative fan recreations of every kind, it seems like it would have been preferable to just finally unlock the multitracks and give the fans the best building blocks possible to make the whole thing easier...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Well, it was necessary for the disk 1 album construction, which in turn was necessary for making the thing marketable beyond us diehards.

Not to be a contrarian but I don't buy this idea that anything other than a BWPS recreation would not appeal to the casual fan. The non-hardcore fans did just fine with the 30 minutes of Smile on GV box. Sorry if this is drifting off-topic  

They should have kept that relegated to the single and double disc limited versions. Those were the economy versions actually designed for the "casual" fans afterall. I never listen to disc one of my TSS, and it could have been better spent both filling in some of the final conspicuous gaps TSS neglected, and giving all the sprawling, fragmented session material more room to breath, and they could have included the fully sequenced version of the album on the vinyl still.

The biggest missed opportunity though, and really what I think would have been not only much cleverer but also more generous to the fans and more in the spirit of Smile itself, is that they didn't just release the multitracks. Even after TSS you still have fans here jumping through hoops doing extractions and fiddling with a lot of painstaking editing to put together their own versions, and given that there was no way TSS would have ever stopped speculative fan recreations of every kind, it seems like it would have been preferable to just finally unlock the multitracks and give the fans the best building blocks possible to make the whole thing easier...

Chris, I'm playing devils advocate to some extent. I tend to agree with you. I do accept Mark and Alan's line though that the BWPS sequence is the only BW sequence we have, so it made logical sense for them to follow it. The execution however is not perfect, sorry Mark and Alan if you read this. I would guess that a lot of us think we could have done better, some of us maybe could.

Fishmonk, not just Smile. I think the Beach Boys should be the first band to release their entire catalogue, online, as mulititracks. The Beatles Rock Band debacle shows how easy it could be. Given the depth and intricacy of their tracks and vocals, it could be the first and final statement in how pop music should be put together.

TSS though, yes, trying to appeal to too many demographics. Still love my box though. 

[humanoidboogie]

In the MIC mix of YLTLF that I have heard, the whole bottom end(bass frequency) drops out during the bridge and never returns. The version I have heard is only an mp3 though. I was just curios if it's my copy, or if it happens on the actual MIC set.

There's plenty of bottom end on my copy (toms + synth bass), although the deeper synth parts do come and go during the song. Maybe that's what you're hearing?

[HeyJude]

As far as added and/or too much echo/reverb on the track in the thread title, or any track for that matter, this has been by far the most disappointing aspect of most of Linnet’s post-“Pet Sounds Sessions” work on the band’s catalog, especially the stereo remixes.

I don’t know how much of the reverb is added at the suggestion/direction of Brian, and how much is just Linnet’s preference, but sometimes it’s simply out of control. The stuff like stereo remixes of “Please Let Me Wonder”, “You’re So Good To Me”, etc. are drenched in far too much reverb, and seemingly fake digital reverb at that. But even if they’re somehow using old-fashioned analog reverb, it’s still excessive.

I suppose I understand adding some touches of it to not make something sound completely dry and dead. For instance, if you compare “Da Doo Ron Ron” on the MIC set to the “circulating” version that has been out there for a while, you’ll see the old version is pretty much bone dry to the point of sounding rather sterile. They’ve added some noticeable reverb to it for MIC. Now, I personally would rather have the 100% bone dry version, but I understand something like this where a touch or reverb might be advisable or at least tolerable.

The 1996 “Pet Sounds” stereo remix was marvelous, I love it. So I’m not sure what happened starting with the 2000 re-done version of the EH Soundtrack, and then on to “Hawthorne, CA”, and so on. The “Smile Sessions” wasn’t as bad as some of the other stuff, probably partly because at least some of those recordings are inherently kind of cavernous and murky to begin with.

I preferred Andrew Sandoval’s relatively short-lived stint working on the band’s catalog. The ugly original cover art notwithstanding, that original 1998 version of the “Endless Harmony Soundtrack” CD has far superior stereo remixes of “California Girls” and “Kiss Me Baby”, sounding fresh and opened up as a latter-day stereo remix should, but retaining the warmth and subtle reverb found on the original mono mixes.

[Jim V.]

Fishmonk, some of the stuff you say makes sense but some of it is just kinda cranky.

For instance, as far as The SMiLE Sessions goes, obviously they woulda needed one disc with the songs in a completed-as-possible state. It just had to be that way. In my opinion, there needed to be good quality, Beach Boys versions of "Do You Like Worms" and "Child Is Father Of The Man" out there, amongst many others. In my opinion, it is revelatory to have those songs in a nice, cleaned up versions with as many of the elements of the recordings as they have. They couldn't just put session material out there. It wouldn't be feasible.

However, I do agree with you that they should have put the master backing tracks on their own track rather than having them on the same track as the session highlights, since the "finished" backing tracks should be made easier to access, a la The Pet Sounds Sessions.

And then as far as complaining about the "poor selection of rarities", I think that is off-base. I think they actually gave us most of the best stuff that was in the vaults. I mean, sure, maybe there's stuff that we don't know about, but judging by what we've heard from boots and whatnot, the stuff they gave us here is probably the best. We got "Where Is She?", "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "California Feelin'", "Soul Searchin'", "You're Still A Mystery", "Barnyard Blues", "Back Home" from '63, "My Love Lives On", and more. All of those, in my opinion are better than whatever else is out there on bootleg. And let's face it, while they is likely still a wealth of good-to-great Denny material still unreleased, there probably isn't as much quality unreleased 1962-1985 Brian Wilson material.  Seriously, what is left that's worthwhile? "Stevie", "My Little Red Book", "Awake", I don't know what else. Maybe stuff like "Sweetie", the "Baby I Need Your Lovin'/Gimme Some Lovin'" medley (if it's somewhat complete), "Smokey Places", and "Little Girl"? I suppose the piano and vocal version of "In The Back Of My Mind" would also be pretty awesome, but who knows if they'd release it.

But yeah, I would really like if a rarities set came out, but I just don't think it's likely. I'm happy that we got The SMiLE Sessions and Made In California, and I feel like that has cleansed my palette for whatever new stuff Brian has coming out soon. I'm excited to look towards the future for him and Al, and maybe even the whole Beach Boys group again at some point.

[Jay]

In the MIC mix of YLTLF that I have heard, the whole bottom end(bass frequency) drops out during the bridge and never returns. The version I have heard is only an mp3 though. I was just curios if it's my copy, or if it happens on the actual MIC set.

There's plenty of bottom end on my copy (toms + synth bass), although the deeper synth parts do come and go during the song. Maybe that's what you're hearing?

Nope, on my version the bass totally cuts out, and it sounds like somebody turned the treble up as far as it would go. It may just be a bad copy I have. The last twenty or so seconds sounds like it's echoing through a tin can.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

In the MIC mix of YLTLF that I have heard, the whole bottom end(bass frequency) drops out during the bridge and never returns. The version I have heard is only an mp3 though. I was just curios if it's my copy, or if it happens on the actual MIC set.

There's plenty of bottom end on my copy (toms + synth bass), although the deeper synth parts do come and go during the song. Maybe that's what you're hearing?

Nope, on my version the bass totally cuts out, and it sounds like somebody turned the treble up as far as it would go. It may just be a bad copy I have. The last twenty or so seconds sounds like it's echoing through a tin can.

This is so disappointing because the bootleg version of YLTLF is so powerful! Unfortunately the only version I can find on YouTube is at the wrong speed; for those you've not heard it I strongly recommend getting hold of a copy of the 'Rockin' Rarities' bootleg album, on which is a version of YLTLF played at the right speed, with the awesome synths to the fore and without all these awful echo fx.

[Jay]

Upon further listening to the MIC mix, it seems as though the vocals and backing track are slightly out of sync. It seems as though the backing track is a little faster, and the vocal seems to lag half a beat behind at times.

[puni puni]

After comparing the bootleg to MiC, Linett's version wins for sure.

The reason why it sounds "fuller" on the bootleg is because it was sourced on a fucking cassette tape. Don't like that there's not enough bottom end? Do what the bootleggers did and fiddle with the EQ. Hate the clarity? Play this video at max volume while listening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJc63mV_rfM

[runnersdialzero]

i have all unrealized beach boys mp3s porofessionslly pressed to vinyl for added warmth and then trasnser back with PC MIC JACK to wma (awesome bill gates way to go your my stickybutt)

[hypehat]

In the MIC mix of YLTLF that I have heard, the whole bottom end(bass frequency) drops out during the bridge and never returns. The version I have heard is only an mp3 though. I was just curios if it's my copy, or if it happens on the actual MIC set.

There's plenty of bottom end on my copy (toms + synth bass), although the deeper synth parts do come and go during the song. Maybe that's what you're hearing?

Nope, on my version the bass totally cuts out, and it sounds like somebody turned the treble up as far as it would go. It may just be a bad copy I have. The last twenty or so seconds sounds like it's echoing through a tin can.

This is totally not how it is on the actual CD, you have a dodgy rip of it.

I can't actually believe you thought that they would master it like that, though? Seriously?

[monicker]

What i think is so cool about the YLTLF bootleg version is that the verses are so dry and up close and then the chorus explodes into a bigger, more expansive sound. But here, the whole song sounds "big" from the beginning, so it loses a little something. I don't think the MiC version sounds bad necessarily, i just wonder why. And obviously not just on this song but many others on the box set. Why are they doing this? Better yet, how? How can anyone be comfortable taking artistic liberties on historical recordings? Linett and Boyd are not producers of the original recordings, they shouldn't be making some of the production calls that they appear to be making (unless Brian has been specifically instructing them with some of these calls -- doubtful though).

All of the instrumentation is on the original, but the mix is new and rather ... um ... experimental. Panning and reverb effects at the end. Can't imagine that was Brian's intent, but it was certainly Al's with Loop de Loop.

I don't understand why that really great little organ fill that's heard on the EH version is missing on SPS on MiC. WTF. Why?

[Disney Boy (1985)]

What i think is so cool about the YLTLF bootleg version is that the verses are so dry and up close and then the chorus explodes into a bigger, more expansive sound. But here, the whole song sounds "big" from the beginning, so it loses a little something. I don't think the MiC version sounds bad necessarily, i just wonder why. And obviously not just on this song but many others on the box set. Why are they doing this? Better yet, how? How can anyone be comfortable taking artistic liberties on historical recordings? Linett and Boyd are not producers of the original recordings, they shouldn't be making some of the production calls that they appear to be making (unless Brian has been specifically instructing them with some of these calls -- doubtful though).

All of the instrumentation is on the original, but the mix is new and rather ... um ... experimental. Panning and reverb effects at the end. Can't imagine that was Brian's intent, but it was certainly Al's with Loop de Loop.

I don't understand why that really great little organ fill that's heard on the EH version is missing on SPS on MiC. WTF. Why?

f*** knows....

[Mikie]

How can anyone be comfortable taking artistic liberties on historical recordings?

That's the question of the day.

[Mikie]

Do you imagine him wearing shorts and smiling too?

And playing with his mic.