Final Days of Dennis Wilson

[Mike's Beard]

I like to think that he passed out from the cold/booze. No suffering.

The pragmatic in me thinks that if he hadn't drowned that day, he only had months to live anyway. The guy must have had no liver left by the end.

[Sound of Free]

I still wonder why Carl or anyone else for that matter didn't step in to 'save' Dennis.

Carl DID try to save him several times, and had a standing offer that the Beach Boys would pay for Dennis to go to any rehab center he wanted. And Carl was planning a post New Year's intervention. But you can't save someone if they don't want to be saved.

From my armchair analysis, the only way for Dennis to get sober and STAY sober was if he dealt with some sort of therapist and got through his issues with Murry (I think evertything else flowed from that).

I think Dennis could have been saves if he had done that, but I think at some point, like Mike's Beard alluded to, he would have needed a new liver.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

 True, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a particular deity. It does seem to have become the blanket term for people who don't believe in any supernatural forces.

I prefer the terms 'clued up', 'sensible' or 'non-idiot'.
[/quote]

It's one thing to proclaim oneself an atheist, but something else entirely to feel the need to insult those who don't share that view.  It's ironic (I'll refrain from using the term "funny") how so many "non-idiots" wind up calling out to that nonexistent deity just before they reach the end of their "clued up" existence.

[pixletwin]

It's ok to believe God. It's ok to be an atheist.

But being a douchebag is always wrong. 

[SMiLE-addict]

Surprised not to see anyone mention the BBC4 documentary we did on Dennis  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClBfaGPD0mI  I remain proud of the job we all did on it.

I've watched that. Great job!

[DonnyL]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

delete

[bringahorseinhere?]

OT: we live, we die......... and in that order..... no more, no less... 

so play as many Beach Boys songs you can squeeeeeeze into our small miniature lives......

a cork on the ocean, a leaf on a windy day, a rock in a landslide..... til' I die..

RickB

[Banana]

What a loss...not just to music, but to the world...but from everything I've read...Dennis was "gone" before he was gone.  It's tragic that he couldn't get the help he needed...but as was previously pointed out...it had to be Dennis who wanted the help.  We're left with some incredible music and a lot of stories (some funny, some sad).  He's become one of the immortals of rock.  I try not to think of him as he was near the end...but rather as how he was before that final, dark period...a guy full of life, bouncing off of the walls...brimming with creativity (and with a cute girl on his arm)!  Whether you believe in an afterlife or not...I think his shadow looms large over everything the band has done since his death...and that's a good thing.  Rest in peace, Dennis (and thank you for the music)!

[Banana]

OT: we live, we die......... and in that order..... no more, no less... 

so play as many Beach Boys songs you can squeeeeeeze into our small miniature lives......

a cork on the ocean, a leaf on a windy day, a rock in a landslide..... til' I die..

RickB

Well said!

[MBE]

I usually do think of Dennis as healthy. I know the heavy drinking started in 1971, but it's 1974 before his voice change, and 1977 before you can see it. His creative peak lasted through early 1979 of course, but usually I got back to 1976 or before in my head.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

I really think he is.

Very shortly before Carl died, I had a dream that he came to visit my sister and myself in my carport, where we were making some kind of recordings. Carl seemed very tired and worn out ... he gave us some help with the recording, and I think I asked him to stay ... but he said he couldn't because he was tired and had to go.

I sincerely believe that Carl and Dennis were present at the show I attended in Berkeley last year. I believe they had a special connection with their fans, and their energy is very much still present.

If I was aware someone I admired had cancer, then I dreamt that they appeared to me  looking tired and worn out just prior to their death, I wouldn't attribute any supernatural meaning to it. For years I had a recurring dream Brian finished Smile. Does this mean I was predicting the future?

And anyway, why would Carl "astral project" to someone he didn't know?

Sorry Donny, but this makes no sense.

And that special connection and presence you felt at the concert, couldn't that just be the excitement and magnitude of the event, tied in with the fact they flashed up huge video screens of Carl and Dennis?

[Disney Boy (1985)]

True, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a particular deity. It does seem to have become the blanket term for people who don't believe in any supernatural forces.

I prefer the terms 'clued up', 'sensible' or 'non-idiot'.

It's one thing to proclaim oneself an atheist, but something else entirely to feel the need to insult those who don't share that view.  It's ironic (I'll refrain from using the term "funny") how so many "non-idiots" wind up calling out to that nonexistent deity just before they reach the end of their "clued up" existence.
[/quote]


Ah, that complete myth! Christopher Hitchens made a point of having someone he trusted and knew well present at his death just to make sure their couldn't possibly be any wishful claims by his religious detractors of some 'last-minute conversion'.

Besides, so what even if hundreds of atheists really did change their minds at the last minute - all that demonstrates is the human race's tendency towards delusion, nothing else. If every person on the planet decided they believed in Santa Claus tomorrow it wouldn't in any way alter the fact that Santa is a fictional character invented by humans. Belief does not equal fact.

You say they [atheists] "call out" to God/Jesus at the moment of their death... Well, personally speaking if I had a sudden horrific heart attack I imagine that yes, I would likely say "Christ..." (along with "sh*t" and "F**kin' hell!!")

What's far more striking is how many religious people absolutely sh*t themselves and do everything they can to be kept alive when the end draws near. Why? Why not embrace an eternity in heaven with open arms? Why the rush to hospital to try to be saved by SCIENCE?

Perhaps because the realisation that death is imminent also brings the realisation of "Oh sh*t, what if it's all just a load of crap??" Atheists however haven't convinced themselves of any afterlife and so generally react with more calm and dignity in death, as studies have shown.

[Banana]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

I really think he is.

Very shortly before Carl died, I had a dream that he came to visit my sister and myself in my carport, where we were making some kind of recordings. Carl seemed very tired and worn out ... he gave us some help with the recording, and I think I asked him to stay ... but he said he couldn't because he was tired and had to go.

I sincerely believe that Carl and Dennis were present at the show I attended in Berkeley last year. I believe they had a special connection with their fans, and their energy is very much still present.

If I was aware someone I admired had cancer, then I dreamt that they appeared to me  looking tired and worn out just prior to their death, I wouldn't attribute any supernatural meaning to it. For years I had a recurring dream Brian finished Smile. Does this mean I was predicting the future?

And anyway, why would Carl "astral project" to someone he didn't know?

Sorry Donny, but this makes no sense.

And that special connection and presence you felt at the concert, couldn't that just be the excitement and magnitude of the event, tied in with the fact they flashed up huge video screens of Carl and Dennis?

I was working nights at a grocery store to put myself through college in 1998.  They played "God Only Knows" one night on the piped in music channel.  I took immediate notice as a BB fanatic.  It was only after I got home from work that cold February night that I heard Carl had passed away.  It was probably just a coincidence...but still kind of a "heavy" moment.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

It's one thing to proclaim oneself an atheist, but something else entirely to feel the need to insult those who don't share that view.  It's ironic (I'll refrain from using the term "funny") how so many "non-idiots" wind up calling out to that nonexistent deity just before they reach the end of their "clued up" existence.

Well I won't.

If Jahweh / Allah / God is real, I'll call him out for being a nasty, jealous, narcissistic  misogynistic wanker with an obviously very cruel sense of humour.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

I really think he is.

Very shortly before Carl died, I had a dream that he came to visit my sister and myself in my carport, where we were making some kind of recordings. Carl seemed very tired and worn out ... he gave us some help with the recording, and I think I asked him to stay ... but he said he couldn't because he was tired and had to go.

I sincerely believe that Carl and Dennis were present at the show I attended in Berkeley last year. I believe they had a special connection with their fans, and their energy is very much still present.

If I was aware someone I admired had cancer, then I dreamt that they appeared to me  looking tired and worn out just prior to their death, I wouldn't attribute any supernatural meaning to it. For years I had a recurring dream Brian finished Smile. Does this mean I was predicting the future?

And anyway, why would Carl "astral project" to someone he didn't know?

Sorry Donny, but this makes no sense.

And that special connection and presence you felt at the concert, couldn't that just be the excitement and magnitude of the event, tied in with the fact they flashed up huge video screens of Carl and Dennis?

I was working nights at a grocery store to put myself through college in 1998.  They played "God Only Knows" one night on the piped in music channel.  I took immediate notice as a BB fanatic.  It was only after I got home from work that cold February night that I heard Carl had passed away.  It was probably just a coincidence...but still kind of a "heavy" moment.

Reminds me of  the 8th of December 1980. Every radio station I tuned to seemed to be playing a Imagine. I walked past a TV shop, and every TV had a picture of John Lennon on it.

Then, when I got home, I found out he'd been shot.

Spooky.

[RangeRoverA1]

I find it so sad to think that by 1983 Dennis was a "lost cause". Did he really not believe in himself enough to attempt a serious rehab?  

Yes, it's very sad indeed. Unfortunately, Dennis wasn't enough strong-willed to help himself & completely quit drinking. Re: drowning, even if he was under influence of alcohol, why not still try to survive & get out of the water? I don't understand it, I'd reckon people usually like & want to live as much as possible. What's an enjoyment about dying young? It ain't good.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

I really think he is.

Very shortly before Carl died, I had a dream that he came to visit my sister and myself in my carport, where we were making some kind of recordings. Carl seemed very tired and worn out ... he gave us some help with the recording, and I think I asked him to stay ... but he said he couldn't because he was tired and had to go.

I sincerely believe that Carl and Dennis were present at the show I attended in Berkeley last year. I believe they had a special connection with their fans, and their energy is very much still present.

If I was aware someone I admired had cancer, then I dreamt that they appeared to me  looking tired and worn out just prior to their death, I wouldn't attribute any supernatural meaning to it. For years I had a recurring dream Brian finished Smile. Does this mean I was predicting the future?

And anyway, why would Carl "astral project" to someone he didn't know?

Sorry Donny, but this makes no sense.

And that special connection and presence you felt at the concert, couldn't that just be the excitement and magnitude of the event, tied in with the fact they flashed up huge video screens of Carl and Dennis?

I was working nights at a grocery store to put myself through college in 1998.  They played "God Only Knows" one night on the piped in music channel.  I took immediate notice as a BB fanatic.  It was only after I got home from work that cold February night that I heard Carl had passed away.  It was probably just a coincidence...but still kind of a "heavy" moment.

Reminds me of  the 8th of December 1980. Every radio station I tuned to seemed to be playing a Imagine. I walked past a TV shop, and every TV had a picture of John Lennon on it.

Then, when I got home, I found out he'd been shot.

Spooky.

Ooh, you just mentioned 8th December 1980 and that's the day I was born - it must MEAN SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bgas]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

I really think he is.

Very shortly before Carl died, I had a dream that he came to visit my sister and myself in my carport, where we were making some kind of recordings. Carl seemed very tired and worn out ... he gave us some help with the recording, and I think I asked him to stay ... but he said he couldn't because he was tired and had to go.

I sincerely believe that Carl and Dennis were present at the show I attended in Berkeley last year. I believe they had a special connection with their fans, and their energy is very much still present.

If I was aware someone I admired had cancer, then I dreamt that they appeared to me  looking tired and worn out just prior to their death, I wouldn't attribute any supernatural meaning to it. For years I had a recurring dream Brian finished Smile. Does this mean I was predicting the future?

And anyway, why would Carl "astral project" to someone he didn't know?

Sorry Donny, but this makes no sense.

And that special connection and presence you felt at the concert, couldn't that just be the excitement and magnitude of the event, tied in with the fact they flashed up huge video screens of Carl and Dennis?

I was working nights at a grocery store to put myself through college in 1998.  They played "God Only Knows" one night on the piped in music channel.  I took immediate notice as a BB fanatic.  It was only after I got home from work that cold February night that I heard Carl had passed away.  It was probably just a coincidence...but still kind of a "heavy" moment.

Reminds me of  the 8th of December 1980. Every radio station I tuned to seemed to be playing a Imagine. I walked past a TV shop, and every TV had a picture of John Lennon on it.

Then, when I got home, I found out he'd been shot.

Spooky.

Ooh, you just mentioned 8th September 1980 and that's the day I was born - it must MEAN SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It means you have a problem reading

[Mike's Beard]

I find it so sad to think that by 1983 Dennis was a "lost cause". Did he really not believe in himself enough to attempt a serious rehab?  

Yes, it's very sad indeed. Unfortunately, Dennis wasn't enough strong-willed to help himself & completely quit drinking. Re: drowning, even if he was under influence of alcohol, why not still try to survive & get out of the water? I don't understand it, I'd reckon people usually like & want to live as much as possible. What's an enjoyment about dying young? It ain't good.

I tend to agree with Mike Love's assessment that the guy had a death wish. The last couple of years of his life read like one big, long suicide attempt.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

I really think he is.

Very shortly before Carl died, I had a dream that he came to visit my sister and myself in my carport, where we were making some kind of recordings. Carl seemed very tired and worn out ... he gave us some help with the recording, and I think I asked him to stay ... but he said he couldn't because he was tired and had to go.

I sincerely believe that Carl and Dennis were present at the show I attended in Berkeley last year. I believe they had a special connection with their fans, and their energy is very much still present.

If I was aware someone I admired had cancer, then I dreamt that they appeared to me  looking tired and worn out just prior to their death, I wouldn't attribute any supernatural meaning to it. For years I had a recurring dream Brian finished Smile. Does this mean I was predicting the future?

And anyway, why would Carl "astral project" to someone he didn't know?

Sorry Donny, but this makes no sense.

And that special connection and presence you felt at the concert, couldn't that just be the excitement and magnitude of the event, tied in with the fact they flashed up huge video screens of Carl and Dennis?

I was working nights at a grocery store to put myself through college in 1998.  They played "God Only Knows" one night on the piped in music channel.  I took immediate notice as a BB fanatic.  It was only after I got home from work that cold February night that I heard Carl had passed away.  It was probably just a coincidence...but still kind of a "heavy" moment.

Reminds me of  the 8th of December 1980. Every radio station I tuned to seemed to be playing a Imagine. I walked past a TV shop, and every TV had a picture of John Lennon on it.

Then, when I got home, I found out he'd been shot.

Spooky.

Ooh, you just mentioned 8th September 1980 and that's the day I was born - it must MEAN SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It means you have a problem reading

Typing, not reading. Post corrected. (Booking a September flight simultaneously - better that I get the dates confused on here rather than Jet2.com!)

[bgas]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

I really think he is.

Very shortly before Carl died, I had a dream that he came to visit my sister and myself in my carport, where we were making some kind of recordings. Carl seemed very tired and worn out ... he gave us some help with the recording, and I think I asked him to stay ... but he said he couldn't because he was tired and had to go.

I sincerely believe that Carl and Dennis were present at the show I attended in Berkeley last year. I believe they had a special connection with their fans, and their energy is very much still present.

If I was aware someone I admired had cancer, then I dreamt that they appeared to me  looking tired and worn out just prior to their death, I wouldn't attribute any supernatural meaning to it. For years I had a recurring dream Brian finished Smile. Does this mean I was predicting the future?

And anyway, why would Carl "astral project" to someone he didn't know?

Sorry Donny, but this makes no sense.

And that special connection and presence you felt at the concert, couldn't that just be the excitement and magnitude of the event, tied in with the fact they flashed up huge video screens of Carl and Dennis?

I was working nights at a grocery store to put myself through college in 1998.  They played "God Only Knows" one night on the piped in music channel.  I took immediate notice as a BB fanatic.  It was only after I got home from work that cold February night that I heard Carl had passed away.  It was probably just a coincidence...but still kind of a "heavy" moment.

Reminds me of  the 8th of December 1980. Every radio station I tuned to seemed to be playing a Imagine. I walked past a TV shop, and every TV had a picture of John Lennon on it.

Then, when I got home, I found out he'd been shot.

Spooky.

Ooh, you just mentioned 8th September 1980 and that's the day I was born - it must MEAN SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It means you have a problem reading

Typing, not reading. Post corrected. (Booking a September flight simultaneously - better that I get the dates confused on here rather than Jet2.com!)

Gotcha! 
In that case, it must mean that John's spirit passed into you.....

[mikeddonn]

As a religious person myself I hate it when people who think they are rational, non-believers love to knock people who quietly practice their faith and don't look to bother or brainwash others.  Each to their own I say but respect others who might have a different point of view from your own.  Yet so many times I have to listen to people saying those who believe in God are brainwashed or idiots.  The irony is that the people who say it are vociferous in trying to convince others that their views are the only views one should hold.  And how anyone can claim that Atheists react to imminent death with more dignity than believers is beyond belief.  I've generally found that most people react similarly.  Is it not, after all, human nature for us to fear the unknown, or for our survival instincts to kick in, believer or not?  Maybe rather than fearing death some people don't want to leave their loved ones behind not because they suddenly think their is no life after death.

I really wish this stuff didn't need to be discussed on a Beach Boys post.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Wish I wasn't a complete atheist, as it'd be nice to think of Dennis looking down finally seeing his music getting the recognition it always deserved. Alas, this isn't the case. It's all just a very, very sad and tragic story. Still, we do have his incredible music...

I really think he is.

Very shortly before Carl died, I had a dream that he came to visit my sister and myself in my carport, where we were making some kind of recordings. Carl seemed very tired and worn out ... he gave us some help with the recording, and I think I asked him to stay ... but he said he couldn't because he was tired and had to go.

I sincerely believe that Carl and Dennis were present at the show I attended in Berkeley last year. I believe they had a special connection with their fans, and their energy is very much still present.

If I was aware someone I admired had cancer, then I dreamt that they appeared to me  looking tired and worn out just prior to their death, I wouldn't attribute any supernatural meaning to it. For years I had a recurring dream Brian finished Smile. Does this mean I was predicting the future?

And anyway, why would Carl "astral project" to someone he didn't know?

Sorry Donny, but this makes no sense.

And that special connection and presence you felt at the concert, couldn't that just be the excitement and magnitude of the event, tied in with the fact they flashed up huge video screens of Carl and Dennis?

I was working nights at a grocery store to put myself through college in 1998.  They played "God Only Knows" one night on the piped in music channel.  I took immediate notice as a BB fanatic.  It was only after I got home from work that cold February night that I heard Carl had passed away.  It was probably just a coincidence...but still kind of a "heavy" moment.

Reminds me of  the 8th of December 1980. Every radio station I tuned to seemed to be playing a Imagine. I walked past a TV shop, and every TV had a picture of John Lennon on it.

Then, when I got home, I found out he'd been shot.

Spooky.

Ooh, you just mentioned 8th September 1980 and that's the day I was born - it must MEAN SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It means you have a problem reading

Typing, not reading. Post corrected. (Booking a September flight simultaneously - better that I get the dates confused on here rather than Jet2.com!)

Gotcha! 
In that case, it must mean that John's spirit passed into you.....

Funnily enough, I have got a sudden urge to take loads of heroin and beat my wife...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

As a religious person myself I hate it when people who think they are rational, non-believers love to knock people who quietly practice their faith and don't look to bother or brainwash others.  Each to their own I say but respect others who might have a different point of view from your own.  Yet so many times I have to listen to people saying those who believe in God are brainwashed or idiots.  The irony is that the people who say it are vociferous in trying to convince others that their views are the only views one should hold.  And how anyone can claim that Atheists react to imminent death with more dignity than believers is beyond belief.  I've generally found that most people react similarly.  Is it not, after all, human nature for us to fear the unknown, or for our survival instincts to kick in, believer or not?  Maybe rather than fearing death some people don't want to leave their loved ones behind not because they suddenly think their is no life after death.

I really wish this stuff didn't need to be discussed on a Beach Boys post.

Apologies, I have nothing against people who keep it to themselves.

And you're right, I shouldn't be derailing the thread. Sorry everyone 

[mikeddonn]

Thank you Stephen!  . We're all here because of a common love of the music.  Now if only my box set had arrived like yours has I might be able to discuss that too!  Oh well I might need to wait until next week.